when a war crime is committed, is a kind of an older 0 follows that goes in the human rights investigator. on his unprecedented journey to the french, i quote, i visit a pretty place to make sure that information off to the bank that's called taking on the arms, trained in his mind for justice, for innocent palestinians, and their families made in front. oh, no jersey the united nations experts believe israel's military assault against palestinians and janine and the occupied westbank may be a work fine. but what's behind this assess? and will anyone face international justice? this is inside storage, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much of june and one of the fiercest assaults and 2 decades on the occupied westbank is really forces in just 2 days brought death and widespread destruction tools you need. at least 12 palestinians were killed in thousands more displaced from vision in refugee camp. the tactics included airstrikes and is rarely sniper shooting from palestinians homes. civilians bore the brunt of the attacks with hospitals and vital facilities among the target. thousands of people already refugees have been left homeless. once again, forced to flee. you in human rights experts say on 1st examination, the assault on jeanine may constitute a work fine. we'll be discussing shortly with our guest, the legal implications of this. and if anyone might ever face justice, the 1st this update from the human genie, people here tell us that if they try to us, keep one holder of the today is really assault on the refugee camp. and they're faced with another. the infrastructure has been totally destroyed by these really

forces, not only the roads, but you're talking about electricity and water. do you think people to rely on both of water or some of them with carrying water in the buckets and bringing them home? the officials in the account are trying to put some sort of an emergency plan to give them a little bit of electricity. but we're also talking about people whose homes have been to, to be destroyed and demolished. others have been homeless because they cannot come back and live in their homes. so they're relying on the health of others of 3 years . it's a state basically we're talking about the refuge account people who have been displaced already from the homes. we've met people who told us that, you know, we, our whole life has been about displacement with refugees. some of them said, you know what, we're not leaving. and we want to die here in our counseling. you hear a lot of difficult stories by palestinians. some of them are relying on handouts on

a because the a read that you're talking about in progress, communities that cannot afford what are the and some of them were already using and relying on the health of age. if you're talking about hospitals as well, those have been attacked by 3 the forces by, but it's by to your gas, as well as air strikes your hospitals. so whatever you go here in the comp, people have very difficult stories to share and they want the words to know that these really a soul has traumatized them and their children for inside story is that, but he do, you need the fuel pipe westbank international law uses 3 criteria to define a war crime that includes launching an attack in an area that can cause widespread damage, injury or destruction. attacks on hospitals or clinics that are not military targets . and depriving civilians of what's considered objects indispensable to their survival. as a method of warfare. all right,

let's go ahead and bring in our guests in the new road. a political analyst and former spoke to him for the palestinian task force on public diplomacy and the time city of tanya. francesca albany is a special rapid tour on the situation of human rights in the palestinian territory occupied since 1967 and in melbourne. geoffrey roberts, in the founding head of dowdy street chambers and a former you in war crimes, judge a warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us on inside story today. let me start with you today. the jeanine refugee camp has been the target of recurring and intensifying attacks by is rarely forces over the past couple of years. what's different about this latest assault? i think what i'm to mentally different about this assault is that it brought back memories of the 2002 invasion. it was a the number of his written, the soldiers that were involved was much larger. the number of armored vehicles,

the incursion deep into the account was, you know, revisited the trauma that the residents there had lived through about 20 years ago . when about near the 60 palestinians were killed during that incursion. hundreds of homes were leveled to the ground and this was preceded by is rarely promises of increased violence, of exacting apprise on the janine refuge account of taking revenge if you will, on that account that is blamed for so many things. so, you know, to see palestinian refugees leaving that that of night with nothing but the clothes on their back because they had no other alternative was collectively traumatic for palestinians. not just for the residents of the app. it brought back, you know, uh the, the stories of, of the 1st refugees of 1948. and that's why this incursion, i think, is a turning point in many ways in the already very in slung,

to inflame situation on the ground. francesca, you and other, you in experts issued a statement saying that israel's latest military operation against palestinians in janine may constitute a war crime. why was this assessment made so swiftly after the assault? yes, we reached this assessment, looking at both the context and the specifics of this ration looking at the move typically, although the motives being time. so it's not necessarily relevant as you i do one can. the one can understand from that definition, we're crime that you gracefully good at the beginning of this discussion. but these are the things that people start getting terrorist until an individuals. um, so this needs to be on the box because one east will have the right to ensure the security to be citizens from any fact including those arising from categories.

anyone intentionally targets tvs to violence organization in, in the pursuit all the political are you doing or to go go to be out of the countable palestinians and he's ready. ready accidental issues, decisions to be made here. why is that these roles uses the security with the security of the time existing, which was meant over 66 years displacement and the rest of instead of a patient's home, the nation's house, evictions. and what else happened in the recent months? um and what i have a set of under my one year 10 year as a special level toward concerns that the context mentors. i'm the international people who take a host. i'm not put too many frequency there. there is to think of ukraine, where the ukranian people are resisting the and he'd be willing to pay some. and then the hell aggression any legal was launched by, by russia on the ground up such determination. so resistance against oppressive

regimes including google, you know, or across to regina is recognized as an aspect of the right of self determination. so at least not going to exclude the default of students, michael needs crimes, it doesn't come to the phone. and the value is that they might use, they should be held accountable for that. but he had an edge being the golly, be of this out to, to not be confused with the limits. you have to think of the situation toward which these are directed. and the secondarily meant that this is something we can see there are doing without an aerial bombardment, with a ground environment that has resulted into damage to 80 percent of the of the holes of the housing do needs to be of interest structure targeting all of the hospitals, sewage, and this essential basics, 2000000000 cd and said that says we're kind of doing access to the, to the wounded these to close, the tooth was trying to. so this is why we said,

pretty much seeing if there is no proportionality, no distinction in this large scale use of legal force for what would otherwise beam and enforcement will gratian me. jeffrey from your vantage point, is there enough evidence now from this latest operation engineering to warrant an investigation into potential war crimes and do you think there will be one? no. that's because they advocated to the is really gone, which is blog or independent investigations. the do it themselves, so it was back 10 years ago or so i'll put ration cost lead housing. so the slick king bucks a 400 movie investigations were over by the use radio me all the end of the day,

only one. this was sent to prison and that was for the ceiling. a credit card, nothing to do with the operation center. it's not acceptable as one of the participants will do the investigation and didn't do any investigation despite the geishas who runs on the other side. so probably let me know where the 1st problem is to ascertain what a shot and by an agent investigation that we will not get. because it's rare, boss independent to do this together. if it's simple, there are the payments and they have to be seriously considered a refugee. the principle is a place where which should be protected because will

basically protect somebody from the was consequences as well. but these really mean says that the weapons that they will. busy the will face to face. well, did they find any they to 12 had a studio just a say, oh people would care about 2. they were quite a few people and they said, well, the people who would terrorist says this is pretty honest. says it's not, it's something that has to be investigated with people to see the records for a reference at all to taking alcohol to get this is rosa. i speak with the onset. yeah. he is,

was the purpose of this attack, which he take this in destroying the i mean 18000 people had to flee where they were destroy, walk with us. and of course they have, well, this is really we'll have to do the se in, i imagine 3 months time, but who we, it's this terrible face that it was expressed in the oh, but i really wish who would cool? he said that i probably know what hold to $200.00 and that is even at least uh, do you go in route? uh and that seems to be too. so ha, a situation where there is no, no,

this is a situation which can only be changed by international agreement by an international conference exceeds the 2 state solution is out of the window. we have to find another solution that is very difficult at the time when the most very cool crime is. of course, we are committed by a coach and that is in, in north jefferies saying that there should be an investigation, but that there won't be an investigation. it won't be an independent investigation . i want to get your thoughts on this. the pilot saying authority is urging the international criminal court to start holding is really war crimes accountable. is that something that you for see happening? well, i mean it's difficult to, to predict, and i don't want to sound like i'm, i'm lashing out at the, uh, i says, fee. but i think it's worth noting that since this prosecutor came, i had it the,

the, the, the i, c, c. he has been news on palestine and he's downgraded an investigation that is supposed to be open into a possible war crimes in palestine and basically to oblivion. he does not talk about palestine. he does not comment on clear and great violations of international law happening in palestine even downgraded the amount of budget allocated to the investigation that his officer supposed a supposedly opened some time and go into the situation in palestine. i think, you know, as much as we talked about the independence of the court and as much as we talked about independent conditions of inquiry. and there have been many into attacks by israel on, on palestinians. it boils down to political will. and the fact that there are states who provide the budgets for the i c. c and for other international bodies.

basically hijacked the process and who, by indirectly or directly extort these bodies into a providing cover for as related, providing you with immunity and continuing to time for it and protect it from any form of accountability. we've seen that happen time and time again. we've seen countries right to the i c. c, against the idea of accountability, even though they pushed that same court to open an investigation into war crimes, possibly committed in ukraine when neither the ukraine nor russia were members of the courts of the blue city. that is applied exceptionalism, that countries like the united states and all that has been cyst on when it comes to is real, is really quite, you know, job dropping and it's very consistent. we see it

a year and then you're not just the i c, c, but every international for aware accountability at the is a possibility of francesca. um, i want to get your response to this too because you heard newer. they were talking about the fact that it was, i believe in 2021. when the i c. c. opened a formal investigation looking at whether alleged war crimes had been committed by i there was really forces or by how mouse and other palestinian armed groups. in the last couple of days, we seen a statement from the office of the pet prosecutor and the i. c. c saying that he's continuously monitoring the palestinian situation. i'm curious, why is this all taking so long? i cannot speak with certainty, this is an answer and that should be given by the office of the priest which use her. um, whatever the reason it's unacceptable. it's really pains the credibility of the court. i need to national prenatal address to send international justice with it because it continues to serve between the image of the international law. we don't

think these treatments of the service of the minority, the technically of the west, and the only way also to dispel these disability history to use all possible avenues without exceptionalism and without double sanders. so far, so far, international criminal court has not been stopped, but there are 2 elements that would like to bring to the discussion. one is that universal jurisdiction can also be piss you. it's through national quote, and this is an avenue that has been explored. if that's failed, but it should not be to go to i do believe that this is still an opportunity to pursue justice, but also restoration of the 2nd element piece that restoring international. no, definitely make itself to international justice. there is a 3rd stage responsibility um that the under international east will

be in the guiding t o d o to patient is monte test. uh, yeah, think section 5, which is absolutely propane between down there. international rule is money fast, says the rock, this is our own bullying. the apartheid regina is fully don't you meant it? i did just enough to take decisive actions from an international community point of view from un member state. if there was a broad, it says the un security council, individualistic states, or group, those states should act on their own accord to use of, to recur to economic political, academic majors, counter measures, a food by the un charter to bring these, the situation to, and francisco let me also ask you, i mean, if what we're witnessing right now is the fact that the universal jurisdiction is not being applied, or there is no other really sufficient mechanism by which to try to bring account

ability of what stopping is real from essentially doing anything at once, i mean, even if they are being told that they are breaking international law, i believe it's a political pressure. and the reason general, i think that this is part of the parcel of the general nautical the immunity. i think it's in community the general and community that is granted to each rock which is not gonna accept, you know, in a sense that there are many states in this world unfortunately, which can be. a a blur in crimes and by any atrocity cry and, and international violations. jeffrey, let me get your vantage point when it comes to international law, when it comes to international justice. um, will there be more international pressure put on is real uh will they feel like they can act with impunity? well, i love this country country, but he's acting with the gracious to prove it and doing the most damage as the

movement is rasa, or it has to not be un shot at. and it has him, but he gives another cox. yeah. and these is causing the crime hundreds every day by bombing, the civilians, by the things that we can see on television. so it is acting within the bathroom scrub nuclear weapons, which terrifies everybody. so we are in a very difficult state, just a minute and international justice has only come on in the la quinta. your so yeah, is the quote says, do building up the precedents she's doing up there. and the movement they call touch russia, because each is a member of the security council and ridiculously can be to any action

taken against the even better it to match the cravings in that country with teaching baby. so this is not to say that the power c uh any less than the ukraine victims is just that russia, as a member of the security council, has defied the international. what i'm saying is in a different situation, can we as well, which as i say he has salma springs, there was a very cool develop a week ago, it was all the 20 full of june, which was the day the directions seem to come up, par 5, we gave this and result, but to the commander of the is re the me,

i am the agent. she a and a couple of others. see you the piece was attached to successful. it moves right. we do. so it seems to be taken illustrator, and it may well be used got a country where to never had such a bind races where many members mention the the, the extra 100 of the staging site. and this is the stage of the country, which is quite enough to try to show appointments to reach the crew go to the supreme court. to visit was one of the, uh, the says we wow, uh, ship and back in use waiting constitution to i think,

which came to get was, uh, the 1st page of keeping israel and other countries look, we see the restrictions of moral. let's face it will. we've had hundreds of years and go to prison is huge, they destroy, it says leave me a call as well with children and it be either some civilians are going to be to the side to jeffrey. i'm sorry to interrupt you. we're just starting to run out of time. i nor i want to ask you about one of the reasons why why we're seeing. all this happened right now is, is the biggest reason we're seeing what's going on when it comes to janine happening right now? is it because the current government is the most right when government and israel's history? well i think that's definitely part of it because the ideology that drives this government is wrong,

but the elimination and the destination of palestinians are they, they make no secret of that. and if we can give them credit, we can give them credit for being honest and forward of about what they plan to do in the occupied territory and, and to the palestinian people. but i think you know, it, it just picking up on, on what your, what, what the judge was talking about. i think the fact that his real has in july, it impunity for so long and enjoy this protection from other countries for so long from any accountability as encouraged other countries to just say, well, you don't want this uh, these laws on these practices because of i haven't done then we can violate the, the laws of war a because we can't because we have the power to because we have a veto of the israel doesn't upset in the security council, but it has a very good representative of the us as use the veto power to protect is world more

times if the security council than i'm any other subject. um, so as well knows it can literally get away with murder. there have been several reports documenting its previous a war crimes in great violations. no accountability, 0 not just in terms of criminal accountability entries instead of applying sanctions. instead of saying we are not going to deal with you as a normal law abiding state until you actually abide by the law. what are showering israel with political gifts, with more financial agreements with even military cool on ration when this, this military stands accused of committing more crimes. and i think that's the 3rd party responsibility of the dimension of accountability that we need to focus on. and the international look opinion is prepared for that. people around the world are overwhelmingly fed up really with that double standard and with is real,

getting away, getting away with all these violations. because people understand that if you allow a bully to get away with bullying in one neighborhood, then all the bullies and all the other in the hip neighborhoods will be encouraged me, francesco, we just have about a minute and a half left. but let me just ask you, what are the types of tactics and weaponry used by israel in this latest assault on jeanine that most concerned you and your colleagues in the area of the environment in the ground environment or in the ground. the attacks are both of concerns. i mean, i'm not a military expert, i look at the consequences and then i have the people centered approach. so and i look at what happened on the receiving end, as it was said, the full by others. and that the displacement of 2000 people, the destruction of homes, the destruction of sydney, didn't infrastructures whatever the means, which caused it. the use of those means expertise has

resulted in a situation which is fremont passed to local and again it should be placed in it comes to examine it shouldn't be read. this is john cruz this drastically from the day the structural violated spare me the lives of the policy in time, the collection of to 56 years and within 100 years of this procession. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much. all of our guest your day francesca alban is and jeffrey robertson and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just you or dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ag inside story. you can also, during the conversation on twitter or handle is at a j inside story for me, truman, the whole team here, bye for now the, it's

the cleanup alterations in there. so you in areas where the seated residents like home dre clearing them up from their opponents and businesses determined to pick up their lives. again, everything is covered in film. it was impossible to get through here until the start. what does, when does your crates is rushed? you're committed a crime by destroying the public, a cold, good time to close these plots. russia didn't realize responsibility. as you can see, the plots here have receded, but some of the worst effect today. risk house of child vitalia has lived on the banks of the english river for modem, decades when the water to reach the threshold,

then we started to run away. she shows us the flooding ultima. so the house leads us inside to look through the photos. i don't have struggles to hold for tears. she knows. so despite the help, she will come rebuilding her life as the war rages will be a challenge beyond words. where is the western agenda heading the g 7 really even matter anymore? who's more electable, joe biden, or donald trump, or jeremy, was in the media undermining our society. can americans cross their supreme court is not corrupt. the critic who look us, pull it to the bottom line. these people have nowhere to go to work forced out of their neighborhoods because of the fighting, going on between rival gang, what he's up and nothing's been about special forces for the, for the special forces. this area used to be filled with people, but as you can see right now, it looks like a war zone. this is the largest hospital in haiti and it has been barely working

for the past in 5 months. let me show you said i last barbecue has created what is known as the g 9. it's a federation of dams and it's one of the most powerful here. these rules connect the communal fit to be with an other area that is not far away and were told that it was being used by gang. some people that had been kidnapped the time several venue in the top stories on elsa 0. or this, our raid by is really forces in the occupied westbank is killed to palestinians and wounded 3 others. the military operation and novelist follows the killing of 12 palestinians. and janine earlier this week is really prime minister benjamin netanyahu. i said that the crack down will continue in sedan explosions and fierce fighting were reported overnight. near the capital of car, 2 army commanders,

a fighters from the parent military rapids support forces attack their general command headquarters. no word yet on casualties. hundreds of african migrants.