hey here's from, i'll just say around on the go and the tonight out is there is only mobile app. is that the, this is where we dissect allies from out is there is a mobile app available in your favorite types to just set for it. and type domain new app from out to 0 new at using is it the arrival to, to is launched by a mess it hoops the strands for profit from unpopular changes made to the platform on the musk ownership. so is it just the clone a revolution in social media? and what does it mean for uses around the world? this is inside story, the

hello welcome to the program. i'm adrian instead of going, they say that invitation is the best form of flattery, but not it would seem to to own it on musk. he's threatening to sue mess up on its own. a monk, a bug off of the launch of the arrival platform, friends this week. in a world where moving 11 percent of people don't have enough to eat a route between 2 of the worlds which just man may not be of concern to old, but there's no doubting the impact of social media since its arrival. less than 20 years ago. it's revolutionize communications, but it's also enabled personal days will be used for commercial and political gay and helping us spread false information on fake news. so how significant is this new platform will be discussing the implications without guests and just a few moments. but 1st, a report from wilma. cool. so i'm showing i've, as twitter squares up to threats as a proposed cage 5 between tech building. as you don't, must, can mock suck

a bug has begun, and it's being fault online on a new social media application. and round one has a winner threats achieving record breaking download since its launch on wednesday. instagram's new up for real time. public conversations is aimed at rivaling months to attempt. and let's say it's a shrewd move, buzz suck a bug, and his stuff at present company metal. they have very intelligently recognized that they can courts over essentially shift over existing instagram users to this new service to it's early success has put a feeling and it's reckoning, legal action against meta accusing zacko bucks, team of using trade secrets and having foremost off to build the bundle platform masks treated to say, competition is fine. cheating, it's not a must took over to, you know, 40 full $1000000000.00 d last year and as implemented separately. the changes that have, i'm good money,

long time use this now is just a sort of a town square where anyone can go in and scream, allow things and it becomes much more difficult to control misinformation, the bullying, and the threats and the also the content that i think people were hoping not to say on twitter are, are making a come back. meta owns facebook, instagram, and what's up, and has been scrutinized sports content. it's been accused of spreading hate speech misinformation, and other talks. content across the internet. threads is the newest micro blogging side. it's sofa about a 3rd of the 250000000 uses to it to had registered up until last year. experts say the real bottom is not only uses, but about how data is utilized to create artificial intelligence models. what you don't want to do is train your a i models on a i generated content you otherwise you just sort of get this cycle of, of

a i learning from other a i and it's, it's no longer a human. so then human generated content is incredibly important. you have to wonder now is the real battle between mark sucker berg and the line mosque is over that human generated content, and that's why facebook or metrics has not chosen to get into this day in silicon valley. some said threats has the potential to be a trip to color. odyssey is just to clone. but so far it's proof to be the was most rapidly downloaded the app, raising the stakes for others, especially it's main driver. on the consumption eve, i'll just see the inside story. so let's bring it off panel from dublin with joined by elaine book, science and technology journalist and a host of for tech sake. the pod cost from the in charlotte. neither was she's a lawyer and policy adviser in the big tech accountability team. i'm the stance national. add in new york,

sarah cripps founder and director of the technology policy institute at cornell, university of all for all of social media at the international relations. welcome to will. so 13000000 sign ups as of thursday morning. i know that sherman and sarah on it. i'm on threads to elaine isn't yet no, all the millions of people who live in the europe in unity. and we'll talk more about the reasons for that in just a moment. but elaina is at least a been able to have a look at it before we get into the nitty gritty here, the rivalry between twitter and a mess. so i just want to know what, what you will think of, of threads. what, what's it like to use in a while? i think i think you can see from it on the reaction that it is definitely being perceived as a huge threat to twitter. and i see that to, i mean, it is such a neat copy of the expectations. people have a twitter from a platform that is proven capable of handling massive numbers of users. i mean,

in scrum itself has numbers in the to be and mark, and a team that has, you know, managed many social media platforms and they know what they're doing here. so this isn't like a book starts and like, well there is competitors, i've come out against twitter and in recent months this is a very, very powerful competitor, and it has a very neat transition as well in that it's paid with instagram and you carry over your handle for me in scrum and carry over the audience as well, which is that a huge draw for people. because one of the things that humphreys new social media platforms is that starting from scratch, idea and how to build an audience on a new platform. charlotte, i, i know that you and your colleagues at amnesty and i'm not terribly impressed with, with, with threads or its parent company meta at the moment. i think what do you think of a french having had a look at it? and i think it's just the one, it's a company, another adequately regulated faithful platform company that's been replaced um

separate places in napa with the same pre basis. so then it's business model. okay . um, sarah, does it feel like a, a work in progress as though it was rushed to get it launch will additional features be be launched later? i'm just gonna bring up my, my page on, on threads for another, for the benefit of anyone who's watching in europe at the moment. it wouldn't have been able to look, this is what, what my page looks like. if you wanna follow me that you'll be more than welcome to do so. but as i say the in that thread, the only one that i publish so far is that i don't really know what to do with it. what now? um, it's not a feeling that you got to sarah. yeah, absolutely. i i found myself trying to navigate this and continuing to go back to twitter because i didn't really know what to, to with threads either. and i wasn't sure whether this is just a sort of the features that are currently are not present on threads yet,

or the people i know sort of what makes it an app successful, especially social media is the network effect. and if of, if the critical mass of people or the news you get is not there, then it's not going to bring or keep you there compared to twitter where i just kind of have facility with that the, the news i want is there the people i know where they're and they're still tweeting there, so i did find myself kind of getting pulled back in to twitter and not fully impressed with what i was seeing on the brand. okay. okay, so it's not just me, i'm a doctor, i've got 7000 dot follows on on twitter, although i rarely post, but i use twitter every day in my line of work i. it is the fastest way quite often as of getting access to, to information that i need about stories that we're covering on the tv. um, even though uh, threads is, is connected to instagram, where, i mean, i still have a decent number of photo was it's, it's in the thousands but, but i've only got 74 that was on, on threads. so what's going on?

right, and i think every social media platforms struggles with that and start building that base. and again, as one of the other panelists was saying, instagram and met. uh, we'll have that infrastructure of the 500000000 users. the question i think would be whether they can pull those users over or whether these are very different type . whether these are people who are looking for very different types of activities. i'm not someone who uses instagram because i'm more into the news, which is where i find what i find on twitter. so i think if people find that what they're looking for is not on the threads and the business beta version. and i mean, this is true and it started up community is you're trying to go for this minimum viable product. and now that has been very clear that they are getting something out there. the question is, if people go there and are finding a product that is and delivery and what they want it to deliver, like you can edit post or that you mean the number of features that are present.

yeah. if they go there and find that, that's not a satisfactory experience that might go the way of masters on which i think also have some high initially the social media platform. but i think it's fair to say that has not been a, a twitter pillar. so elaine, why can't you and on millions of other people across the you access threats and why you're being shut out of the policy? yeah, we're the, we're not about just yet. now there is a press web. i have to find one is curious, i can go to products dot net forward slash if they know a user name from in scrum. so who's on there? you can check it out through the web app. and that's why i haven't gotten a look at what, what it's like and but the reason why the app is not yet available into you is because it's not yet ready for releasing to you that you have very specific data protection rules under g, d, p r. and at better so working towards stuff, the data protection commissioner here at our end has the very specific point day that it hasn't been blocked for release here itself that they attached to the and

then it was stopped, is that they have not chosen not to reduce the here on the assumption there is that they're still pending the jeep york times, and it's just the case that, that those different jurisdictions, but also what we see with the, this kind of data version of it, this minimum 5 of product elements to it. it may be also that they accelerate the release date to capitalize on what was happening with twitter on a previous weekend with break limits being introduced. a lot of disgruntled users seem very discontented with their use of the app and it seems that it's a logical argument that maybe they push their lease at an older countries. i think a 100 countries is where it's available now at with this kind of version that it's really just spreads posts, replies and there's no direct messages, no pass size, no training topics. and maybe that's why people are rounding on it and be like, what am i supposed to do with this? uh, charlotte, um, obviously says the normalization of people having to trade human rights to have access to information needs to stop. it's talking, not just about threats, but about social media in general is talking about twitter. it's talking about

about messa. uh, what does it mean when it says that it means that people simply do not have to create the human rights to participate on the global online todd square. i'm big tech company such as me to use the business available tomatoes for which they generate the profit of which sensitive data i collated, which includes the location, email addresses and admitted data. the tenant for very intimate and sensitive and personal details about the presses. and um, this hasn't been transparency on the cost of many big tech companies, and this remains to be their business model which infringes upon uses rights as they participate on these take tackles to the email as well. you're, you're arguing that the business models of, of the social media giants threatens human rights. somebody can, can you give us some examples and, and, and, and how it does that. so people often have to trade their privacy to participate

online, so the data eviction um put when you sign up, the data that you said is collated on the platforms as well collected 5, these types of companies, energy use to generate a profit. it's used in targeted advertising and many other forms. it's also used for the good. so again, to cation ok, speech and many other and many of the human rights abuses such as, um, pay for such as hateful content. and if i want to buy those online, all right, i meant to, i'm sorry, i, on the i cool you address probably that, but the meta on face metro's, facebook has been accused with some of pushing hate speech. but the same is true of, of choices that was made, but you could argue more. so, i mean, if you, you spend any time on, on, on twitter, as i do, sometimes it's quite a, it's quite a hateful place. i think it all comes down to the business

model of these big take companies such as mater and twitter, which is the connection um which is this business to valence model and how it is actually used to amplify. he's a hateful speech and content and insight into violence. okay, so what, what do you make of, of, of what do you just heard there about the business models of these social media giants and the, and the impacts the negative impacts. quite often that they have around the world. i mean it's, it's hard to ignore the, the, the, the impact on a number of different levels. i mean, in the us, we've had confirmed a few of these cases of electoral interference of the russian internet research agency masquerading as americans on social media and then harvey, the in certain demographics with manipulative images or social media posts. we know that social media platforms like take talk are contributing to

a huge mental health issue for a teenage girl. so that clearly the case, the question is kind of how do we address that? um, and i think with these platforms they are locked in as and i think met a special earlier facebook was i think miss use in the data of and i think in recent years they've been held a bit more into account in terms of how they're using the data, but i mean, the boston as much as i've already said on capital hill, more than one of these platform have to make money. yeah. and if they're not doing, the type is like thread is not have an advertisement is how do we think they're going to have a revenue, a business model? and it's by taking the data at the receiving end, trying to understand how people think and then, and then finding ways to use their test data or binding. use ways to use their location data to a copy of the enhanced or user experience. but there are these compromises that

people are certainly having. and may i have say, i often wonder how these, these companies make money. you say that they need to know to reach us. they use us through advertising, but a lot of the advertising i see on both the twitter and on message product. this is totally useless. but as far as i'm concerned, that the talking to the wrong person, the algorithm simply on working as far as i'm concerned. i'm anecdotally, i've heard that from a lot of friends and colleagues to was this, do you think a small move on knock a books pot to take on 8 on masks. so directly to we've, we heard about the, the, maybe the, the timing of the launch from a land who was telling us about it but, but the, the timing was quite significant. was it a small move to think from talking about yeah, i mean, absolutely. i think there was clearly demand for an alternative to twitter really and i kind of posed, you are a mosque. you're on twitter because of some of the choices he was making. and i

think he's so well position because of his mother. i'm hired to really tap into that huge user base. i think the question for him, i mean, will be an interesting one, which is how do you generate revenue? does he do that for the extra analyses to his other platforms, like facebook and instagram, or does he do that or what are the ways that this platform can actually generate revenue? because so far what he's saying is he wants to make this the kind or friendly or user experience. and what we know from studies and social media is brand new, kinder and gentler. do not bring people on social media and keep them there. that's exactly how to take talk is really profit. it is that they are, are manipulative and you know, just like say news is probably about travel faster than real news. i think things that are sensational and sometimes cut in are more likely to generate engagement

on twitter. i mean, for all the criticism of twitter, since you on my engagement end, users are up so that i think is that funded mental tension. like do you agree with that? will threads be a more pleasant place to hang out? so will it ultimately go the way of, of twitter and take talk i'm trying to see on a online space with tens of millions of users currently possibly going to go to hundreds of millions with as really intense moderation, being happy, safe place unmet. it isn't actually known as a company that invest significantly in moderation at twitter is having its own problems. they're having slash teams that were responsible for those kind of areas . and, but meta has now added another platform to the mix of something that i already wasn't doing to scratch it by. some crick critics that would say, i do think that's going to be a huge challenge if there is both on the question of who they'll make money out of this thing. i, they are providing

a very neat space for people to transition to for twitter, including advertisers, advertises are feeling that twitter with that diminish trust and safety seems isn't the best place to be, can it positioning their advertising and they have push it forward. this online market and they can no place it somewhere that might be a bit better on to the into that takes over. i'm sending is a moderated use is really show as are the they're into that faces. but what matter can do here is how a bind of user generated content to train. a lot of this brought up in your as a prior reports and met a while, people focus on his pivot to be another 1st focus company is also really pivoting to be an ai focus company and they are doing a lot of intense work there on the more data that they can access to power those models, the more that they may be, be able to build models dot com, so, and be profitable. surely new, you heard what elaine said that about a i also had what sir said about these companies. meetings and make money,

what should be done? should these companies be more heavily regulated or should we leave moderation of the kind of hate speech? we're talking about $22.00 out of visual intelligence of these big companies, big to companies such as twitter on me to should be subject to strict, strict, or oversight and transparency. uh, they should be subject to strict to all of a sudden transparency requirements. and this is included and it seems like mandatory due diligence, human rights reports that of compliance with international human rights standards. there is an obligation of them to me business and human rights standards and their business. the business model that they use should be compliant with that. so we talked about the it making perfect business sense for months. talk about lawrence threads, but how much do you think the launch of the platform is connected to the past or rifle rate between him at

a long last i cannot purport to get into the minds of those 2 individuals and you know, yeah, it does seem like i did actually watch a reason podcast with mark decker berg and he says himself, he's a very competitive person, and i think that is why he's gotten into things like g g. so not just as a casual hobby is but ethics, competitive level. and so i think that it just kind of reading about him listening to him his oh you those if i'm going to do this, i do it a 110 percent. that'd be better than the next guy. and i think actually similarly, that'd be long as well. so i think this is really for you to have this platform ethic, sorry, competition as a platform level that is almost kind of personifying these ends of an individual. animals is between these 2 very competitive people that i'm mosque was threatening

to sue matter of the launch of threats. how far do you think he's willing to push that legal action does? does he have a family plan? is threads a copy of twist? yeah, so the claim is that they have used intellectual property from twitter and access that the former twitter employees who have been employed by matter matter has counted this to say that while there are former treating employees network, do not matter. none of them were part of the engineering team on trades i. so unless they can really prove that some of that intellectual property, some programming code, some u i design elements were brought over from twitter. they may not have a case because the actual idea of twitter and heavy user interface looks it's matter has program thought themselves and design that themselves. if there's not really anything that they can do that we see this across social media platforms all the time. they coffee ideas from one another into the grounds on stories is

a copy of sacha. it's rios is a copy of tick tock and we haven't seen court cases competitive thought because this is something that happens in the social media industry. but it also could be a case of yet another thing that even most follows through with because he's spoken about it probably be on, feels pressure eyes to then follow it through like the purchase of twitter. it's on the shirt and getting back to this, the point you made about the normalization of people having to trace the human rights that the dates have to have access to, to information needing to stop people to think misguided and thinking that there is no harm in giving social media companies access to so much of that personal information. i think people participate on social media, which is a global town squares to purchase a. it's a global, consummate in which everyone participates to communicate with one another. so to get messages across, it's just that they shouldn't have to trade their privacy rights and the human

rights generally. and i think i with the introduction of goods, it's unclear how given that makes of using the excess made his business model is. that is one of the valence it is empty. how patients any say for from that off twitter on a and we cannot allow big tech to regulate themselves and dictate the rules for the online global town square. okay sarah. um, what is the launcher threats mean for, for twitter arrivals like mustard on and, and do you think that we don't have the control to see what's going on right now with twist the we're witnessing it's, it's slowed in mind when a hope in order that i find it very useful, you will basically do to. so yeah, i mean it's a good question because i think at least some of us were in a world where everything is political. and i think one of the things i saw with twitter is that you on must taking over and kind of in you,

in some of his politics, into or ideology into the platform. really term some people off. and so i think there's a, that's the sort of proportion of people that are looking for an alternative. i think there are probably some other people who will say, you know, i don't, you know, kind of hold their nose. i don't like his ideology, but actually this platform has the most features i like and so i'll stick with it. i mean, sort of like some of the questions that people have about trust. well, i'm gonna stop by and test was because, you know, i don't like, you know, a mask and it's, you know, several actually good car. so i think there, there is some segment of the population in, at least in the us again. but it is the politics, it's so much of their everyday life and they will do things even just to spice themselves. and then there's some people, i wouldn't be the reason why people in the middle they probably are going into making choices based on kind of the merits and you know, and not. and so again, i don't think there's a, the mileage will met very here. i think quite a bit,

but i do think that of threads again come in and kind of coming full circle here of the threads can kind of improve upon some of the features that people do like about twitter, like the private messages, like the hash tags that make it easy to search for things, but then i think some of that early sort of, sir, it is gonna end up does be more, more higher than anything else. okay. but elaine method as lowest and then close the social media app. so the past is threads here to stay? do you think or is it doomed to join the ranks of the the also rans and what does its launch? i have to so it didn't quite get that. but what does its launch means? the other twitter arrivals, like most of the yeah, so as when the price was 1st, the names were it was still kind of a secret project with a code name. it was a nice but it was going to be a decentralized social platform which is similar to masses on and also blue sky, which is from the former twitter ceo jeff dorsey. he's helping the project. this is

about creating a social platforms that are a bit more interconnected and also a more community led as well. so communities can settle their own kind of and servers on us and on and moderate them themselves. so instead of leaving moderation, go to a big tech company whose ideologies you may not be aligned with. you can actually set at the community that you my, you have set moderators on control, kind of what you will, and won't allow in your community. and that way, frank courtney doesn't actually do that, but that is a feature that's promised to call we thought at, at the centralized ation. it would also be part of what's called the study verse which lasted on his part of. so try that away. my actually support for the development on my sit on what i find is my think at your are the contributors have touched on this as well. so it sounds like she's popular as got their own personalities. and you could say that twitter has effectively been renamed, and the guy is a beat on most. but you know, most himself reflects a huge corner of the internet and the attitude of these people. and so it is just

that maybe he's just catering to that section of the it's not that more for it is also, as you've also mentioned presently used by news found on journalist does seem to be their platform of choice. i certainly would noticed that i totally, instagram is more of the per view of celebrities and influencers and they find that more assault us. they're in boxes on being that it's a bit more old into the appeals that okay. to tech, technology savvy people. it's, it's kind of weird, isn't it that, that this conversation 20 years ago would have made both sense to anyone. and i really enjoy this, this last 25, but it's thank you so much for being with us. elaine buck, charlotte and i do. and sarah crims, thanks to you for watching. does it good? you can see the program again at any time by going to the website. i'll just 0. don't com for further discussion. you can join us on our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. i'm on fred's aid for that is where you'll find me. the conversation continues on twitter as well. i'll handle it a inside story from me,

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