for the latest news, as it breaks on the one side, the authority is our payment for tom on the other side. now strongly demanding justice with detailed coverage. the work has resulted in the closure of many hospitals, and that puts a lot of pressure on the medical staff here from around the world. the operation in jeanine would last no more than 48 hours. the consequences, the impact of what has happened to you. the last for years or the world is big enough for both the united states and china. the words of the us treasury secretary, during her visit to virginia, department of 2 superpowers continues to engage in a freight pool. is it really what exactly does washington want from china? this is inside story. the

are welcome to the program. i'm adrian said, a good relations between the us and china appear to be across roads to high profile us visitors have been to badging within the last month to try to repair the damage relationship, trade sanctions, computer chip secrets, m, taiwan. just some of the concerns of the world's talk to economies of nuclear superpowers, but so far is about a little to show for the missions of diplomacy. so are they just photo ups and political fits a or has anything that achieved would explode the issues with all guests in just a moment. but foster report from i'll just heroes, katia lopez, hold on. yeah. it's been described as a step forward and us china relations, us treasury secretary, janet yelling for 40 visits of aging may have ease tensions between the world top to economies. but most trust remains that you wish in china have significant

disagreements. those disagreements need to be communicated clearly and directly, but present in spite and in i do not see the relationship between the us and china through the frame of creek power conflict. we believe that the world is big enough for both of our countries to thrive. trade restrictions and political fall while tough. so what relations between the top 2 economies, both governments acknowledge, however reluctantly, that their economies need one another. you see only if we hook the us, i will take a rational and pragmatic attitude. me trying to off way and work together, you know, basing one's washington to lift billions of dollars in tariffs and posed by former president donald trump and to and sanctions limiting time use technology firms and their access to semiconductors. jaelyn has also issued requests, calling on the chinese to even the playing field for

u. s. companies operating in china. we have entered into the early stages of a new multi paula global order. that's the 1st thing coming to grips with that fundamental reality helps around you in the realities of the world as it is, as opposed to the hopes and wishes that 1 may have about how the will ought to be. despite political fallout, recent data show a solid trade relationship with 2 way trade worth nearly 700000000000 dollars last year. but economies and alliances are shifting, particularly since russia's invasion of ukraine is to protect. some analysts say competition for economic and military dominance could take an alarming turn between the 2 super powers. and now the waiting has begun to see if he owns visit will turn

by lateral attention to collaboration patsy a little bit. so the young for insights story by let's bring it out. guess for today's program from china is capital we're joined by pull trailer city, a vice president for china at the global business strategy from old bright stone bridge in the us. capital is elizabeth lara's founder and president of the letters consulting research, other than us just found, focused on the asia pacific region, and also emerging at the mark. a senior research fellow at the center, the china and globalization, chinese think tank a world welcome to you all pull. let's start with you. what did you make of johnny? ellen's visit to beijing? was at least more productive of the data. and so the blinking last month. yes, i think it was definitely more productive. i think the number of visits and with key officials but yelling was able to to obtain we're pretty important. she met

with premier lee chon, she met with very senior financial managers or chinese economy including you, gong, people's bank of china, but the finance minister. so i think just that the fact that she was able to establish direct communication with a new economic team and vision was really important. now there weren't a lot of big deliverables, but i think just being able to sit down with her counterparts in invasion and for the 1st time really right in that during so ministration is it is a real significant achievement in itself. even though about the expectations below and there weren't necessarily concrete deliverables coming out of the meeting. so the fact that the meeting itself took place and seem to go very well on both sides is, is a success. elizabeth would, would you agree with that was was the visit a successful walk for it's am this what was she sent that to me. okay. so i agree maybe about 50 percent. um yeah. see

a secretary. all them is able to meet on an oppressive number of people a short amount of time. she must be absolutely exhausted. and certainly the meeting was more cordial than a secretary said anthony, blinking meeting in in beijing. but they are not high expectations for this meeting . the same as with secretary blinking sneezing. expectations were kept pretty low. and that's because the purpose was to resume regular channels of dialogue between the united states and china. after you know, the relationship or perhaps hit a low point of need or, you know, after close he's, there is a to taiwan, chinese support for the russians invasion of ukraine. this bible, you know, issue the whole host of issues. and so, um, you know, president biden is very, very clearly a um wants to improve relations with china, which is extremely important. so he's sending over blanca. yeah,

alone. and then john terry will go shortly to talk about issues that are areas where we can have some agreements with staging, you know, the economy. everyone can agree on that. we want to improve economic relations. that's, that's, that's a touchy political issue. and, and of course, with john kerry going, talking about climate issues. and again, that's something that you know, trying to in the united states can agree on. so as far as you know, restarting a normal talks meeting with, you know, the new economic people over in beijing, in those terms, it was successful. and they wanted the chinese make of, of janet galen. uh do they trust to see? yeah, that's a great question. adrian um, so i think 1st a little bit of context. since the early days of reform, china has had ap retentions and suspicions that the u. s. would sooner or later

weaponized global public goods like the us dollar, light c lanes of communication like access to technology, access to markets. and the last few years unfortunately have shown that those suspicions were not ill founded. so i think while the secretary of treasury yelling has many soothing words for china. i can't help but think of ralph waldo emerson's uh, quote that your actions are so loud that i cannot hear your words in that. uh the us, uh for the last few years certainly is taken actions that are quite at odds with the more conciliatory words that we're hearing on not only from secretary treasury jaelyn, but others in the binding administration as well. so i think that talking is good. i agree with paul, that's good that both sides are talking, but the real resolution to this relationship will not based on uh,

more frequent communications. okay. oh, would you agree with that? a list of, of the top started how many more cd a bite and administration officials will be sent to page and in the future. and, and for what purpose i, we, are we building perhaps towards, to think of bytes. and she summit here is that in the pipeline. absolutely, we're building an on ram, if you will, to a notional bite, and c summit on the margins of the apec meeting in november. so that's really the goal here. at least at least one of the goals this, this was something that was also, you know, this high level cabinet seriously. the cabinet level meetings was something agreed to the last time the 2 presidents met in bali in november of a that 20 to 2022. so i mean the, the, the issues like the balloon, a fair and other this is supply one by congressional delegations and certainly complicated things. but i think now we're back on

a more clear guide quite path to november. now that said, there's still a lot of issues i agree with with andy, there's not a ton of issues on both sides. i'm just before. yeah, on the arrival, for example, china announced export controls on to critical minerals used in stomach and after production, gallium and germanium. and on the us side, of course, uh there are, there had been a series of export controls on trans companies over the last number of months. and then there's discussion of about investment mechanism which yelling as it does seems to have previewed for her chinese host and characterizes very narrow. but of course, beijing is, is a little leery of, of some of these measures that us has taken and has characterized as narrow because they do have broader implications for chinese technology sector for example, or for, for the economy. so i think they're up and up to the lead up to november. they're going to continue to be measures taking on both sides that are going to complicate what we've been calling this many saw in the bilateral relationship pull china is.

premier said the china us ties can now see rainbows after a round of wind and rain, which is a pretty beautiful way to, to, to put it but is p, right? i'll wait in for a period of, of calm a weather in terms of relations between the 2 nations or you talked about how many sol of that so many things that that could be real this, that will, we could end up back in the deep freeze if we don't cancel i think that's a great question, i think right now if you're coming out of the l visit, i think you can see that there's clearly the will on both sides to try to make this as many fall in the relationship work. but at least until november, when we would have this notional, a bite and c summit. but i think there are forces on both sides that are, that are intent on undermining the spa. so you, you see around the visit these high level visits, for example,

a number of media's media stories probably linked by forces on both sides trying to paint the other side. is my eve in trying to seek this, this many thoughts? so i think, i think my sense is that will probably is that the relationships will be able to, whether some of these, these tensions going into november. but then the question becomes what, what, what is the substance of that summit? where do we go from here as we saw it in the yellow and visit china, pressed the island on things like tariffs on, on some of the export controls. so some of the really hard things and the relationships that neither side really seems to want to budge on. and so it's hard to see how we can continue to just have park and dialogue at a high level and not have some major movement on both sides on some of the sort of court issues that are doubling the relationship for china. for example, taiwan is a huge issue and, and we have lots of measures, for example, new us congress to increase military support for taiwan. and we've had as well have

a series probably of congressional delegations going to taiwan. so there are these very, very tough strategic issues that neither side really can or, or will tackle due to domestic political pressures. and so i think the relationship, you know, for the moment we'll, we'll be honest, this more even keel. but there's another role underlying problems have been, have been really seriously addressed in any of these meetings, the site level meeting so far, elizabeth trying to get on sites, but it is possible for the 2 nations to help sleep co exist. is that how the white house sees it, but what happened to buy things? not on my watch. a stipend concerning the rise of china. and i'm wanting to practice aren't going to have on, on any prospect of, of harmonizing relations between the 2 countries. a little publicly, both sides the homepage and the washington want to say that we can co exist, you know, a young man has use the term healthy constitution to educate that we're

not enemies, we might be economic rivals as so, you know, that's a natural situation when you have the 2 largest economic powers in the world that there do, you know, she even said there was, there was room for the 2 countries to co exist in the world. and so she said things that are please, and of course, to beijing's e r. m. and one of the reasons that she's all are there now is because in the aging, she is seen as one of the people who is more favorably disposed towards the aging, rather than perhaps some other people in washington. and so she's saying things that you know, that make washington, you know, what you're willing to engage with china, certainly areas. now, there are, there are issues in the us, china relations that are really irreconcilable differences, you know, and as, as the other guests, you know, mention, you know, try one us out,

trying to see the status of both of those are really irreconcilable. you know, then there's a trade war and export controls. are those irreconcilable, or can they be managed right? some of these issues are not going to be solved to taiwan is the issue that cannot be solved because the united states and trying to see very, very differently on that issue. however, it does need to be managed. it is extremely important, not just of course, economic wise, because after all businesses want a stable environment in which to do business, right? but militarily, these, these issues, these differences, if they cannot be resolved, must be managed. so there really is piece in the inductor step back, because if they're not managed well, then there was a possibility of, you know, conflict between the united states and china. and elizabeth, how much pressure is us business putting on the administration of its relationship

with china? well, there's tremendous pressure, undivided administration. an american businesses are obviously still present in china. of course, there was a bit more skittish about the environment there after uh, trying to, you know, promulgated but it was after the national security law. and also, you know, a chinese authorities have been investigating some due diligence for us, including the american firms banning company and this company. and, and, you know, and of course, secretary all and didn't bring up those issues when she was in beijing. of course, goldman sachs came out the report just the other day um, you know, flagging some of the problems and the chinese banking industry and they were around the cree. ringback sized and taken to task 5, aging for essentially publishing information that was counter to china as best interest. so that has a real chilling effect on us businesses. but if you weren't in china, you know,

you might, you know, expand your operations in some other country or move some of your operations to another place, vietnam, the lazy and mexico and what's called china plus one. but you're probably not going to pick up and move your entire factory and to a trade between china and the united states increase last year. and so businesses, they still, they still see that they can make a lot of money despite the risks and, and, and, and the lack of, you know, you know, the actual pop property protections they have. they still see if there was money to be made. so they want a smooth environment in which to do this, and i thought just probably matter if that makes sense to them. i mean, what does china want from the us in order to make that relationship? so i has a hesitate to say mohan monia. so overall productivity and perhaps less on track of this take is, is what i'm, i'm looking for here. how does a china feel about investing political capital into developing relations with the

ministration? but maybe because there's an election next year gone in 18 months. yeah. and that's always the struggle i think dealing with the united states, is that in some sense, it's structurally incapable of honoring any long term agreements. adrian. but i think the issue here is that from the chinese perspective, we, us behavior paints a pretty clear picture that the us is looking to support china's growth and development. so the question is, what is trying to doing and response to this? and i think it's reaction is based on a very accurate reading of the prevailing power dynamics. so a china always has been committed to working with any country, including the united states on the basis of mutual respect and respect for sovereignty. but i think starting march 2021 of the last good meeting, we can see

a see change. we're trying it has said if we can't make you see the light america, we will make you feel the heat. and that was shown in the very sharp exchanges in alaska, but also i think, shown in these up looming restrictions with gallium and germanium. they're not only important comp in inputs for semiconductors, but also for high powered radar. which of course, is crucial for uh, many aspects of the american military. so i think china is showing that it's willing to go toe to toe with the u. s. a, and make them feel the key. what is china want to answer your question, i think is the recognition that china really is an e will of the united states. and what's happening in the us is that it's going through these 5 stages of grief, from denial,

anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. so i would say that the secretary young one is certainly in the bar and getting phase, but we still have key republican, some others in the us that are still in the denial and anger phase. so i think what china is hoping for is for the us to move as quickly as possible to the acceptance phase, and that will lead to a much more harmonious, prosperous, not peaceful world. okay, but the board about the election next year, of course, and a said that are investing political capital when, when everything could change again next year at the end of next year. here's the ironic thing. uh so i think that's a very good point. i think certainly working with whoever is in power at the time is still a chinese priority. but if trump does get reelected, i think you're something to, to know to could be in some ways very positive for china. he's on record saying

that taiwan is very close to china and far away from us. so what can we actually do about it, which some is interpreted to mean that he recognizes the writing on the wall and may actually been very pragmatic way. so adrian knew that could be an argument that it might make sense to wait and see what happens in 2024. but on the other hand, a time is always precious. and i think that, you know, china has been very vigorous in pursuing diplomacy, not just with the united states, but with the e. u. many other countries around the world, saudi arabia, ron, the solomon islands, a 100 yours. and i don't think that will change poll um, would you agree with what i am? the eddie was saying that about the, the anger phase and the acceptance phase. and we heard something similar from a warrick a in, in our report at the beginning of the program. but he was talking about the,

the us not realizing that we're at the beginning of a new multi polar world or the, the, the us is still hoping and wishing that things were different. yeah, well i think that's it, that maybe the maybe a good way to characterize it, but i think um, you know, that in the us there's, there's, there's sort of this new bipartisan agreement that china represents this, this uh, this threat and some, some terminal impacts a central threat to us interests. and so you have this, this policy that the by the administration has a buffet called a line and best and compete them. and the alignment part of that is building coalitions in europe and asia with an eye to sort of containing china's rise as, as a technology power. so this is, this is, this is sort of a c change and in washington that i think will survive a, even the change in an administration. and so the challenge then for china is to,

is to determine how to engage with, give a, given the sort of, the, the, the best best bipartisan agreement on china. and try to get back to some level of above normality in terms of diplomacy. and that, that's what we're seeing with, with, with these visits now. and i think china though is, is, is taking a longer term view and it is concerned about the potential and then 2024 for there to be, you know, what, the change and ministration. but i think they're, they're, they're sort of envisioning, i think officials are, are not, they'll have any, any, any of the illusion that the us policy is going to change significantly. and we have to go back to some, to the sort of obama era or, or, you know, an area where, where, where there were, there was a different approach to china and trying, it wasn't, wasn't really fluid. and at that point is that as, as, as it is not, i'm in washington as a real appear appear competitor, the only peer competitor in it, and a challenge and

a threat about that us policy is not going to change. okay? because with a change of constrictions, i think basically have to adapt. okay, i'm sorry, sorry, b l, sorry to close you down, pull up a time is, is, is against us. i want to get a couple of questions and to elizabeth that i am the elizabeth, to an extent then a deacon on the can trade relations key here to maintaining a stable copious relationship between the 2 countries. no matter what the tension on, on human rights issues, taiwan territorial disputes and such the to meet each other for the, for the sake of their economies. and the economies are definitely so intertwined that the coupling is going to be very difficult. i know this term d risking is being thrown around rather than the coupling of their 2 things you know, that is going on. you know, of course, in china there is something in a 10 to a indigenous ation program going on. it's called made in china 2025,

and she's a pain came up with this um, just a few years ago. and the intensive for that is a too big china, less reliance on the united states and the rest of the world. that is the chinese economy, but also the civil military, you know, fusion industry less reliance on the united states on the west. but jamaica was more dependent on the chinese economy. and so, um, as you can see, what has been happening in china in recent years, is the we growth of the stage and the economy. you know, since stop shop things, reform and open english started in 1979. china who had been moving towards adopting more market oriented principals, but after she just came to power in 2012 and then the accelerated and especially

with the appointments um for the phone as the vice premier with an economic portfolio. you see the re introduced re introduction of this. okay. and i, yes, the saying we need more markets price because they are not more states. so that's a really big difference. elizabeth, again, sorry, sort of thought and we've got about a minute and a half left and the john, you haven't set the visit, was aimed at putting a floor under the turbulence in the relationship between the 2 countries. did she? did she do that? do you think and where did you see that the relationship going now they went all of a sudden done the 2 countries need each other to buy. i think certainly various some dependencies. but i think that deeds not words. so what will determine the future of the relationship will be american actions? not so much of the wreck is prepared for any event to ality

that happens. but i think, you know, the hope is that there is a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow. uh that, uh the uh, yelman's visit represents and that there can be a when we an outcome is the trainings like to say, okay, the, we're gonna have to leave it manufacturing date to all of your pull trill, elizabeth lazarus and, and the mock as always, thank you for watching, don't forget, you can see the program again at any time by going to the website that i'll just hear a dot com for further discussion on this topic. join us on facebook page, you'll find that that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. out of course you can join the conversation on twitter, handle the inside story from me, adrian said again on the team here and so uh, thanks for watching. well, see you again, bye from the, the

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