the lead 19 sixty's, the significant decade across the middle east and north africa. it was to dictate when new dynamic movements launched in the last of a 3 car series, which is 0. well, looks at the changes in society. so how teachers were looked after in learning methods were closed, be evaluated from education to the changing rules of when the expansion of the middle class and improve the transportation the sixty's in the arab world society on outages era. why did turkey change his mind on sweden's nato membership at this year's summit, the alliance is set to expand as it faces new security challenges. so how will this change the geo political landscape in europe? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much in june and lithuania, some of the world's top leaders are discussing the future of nato. after repeatedly blocking sweden's membership, turkey a says it's now ready to support it. rushes invasion of ukraine has served to strengthen the alliance. that's frustrating moscow's territorial expansion and attempts to broaden its inputs. so how is nato changing? the power dynamic across europe. and our president vladimir, put in, respond, will explore these issues with our guests in a moment. but 1st this report by katya lopez for the young. the warring ukraine has change needles, relevance, particularly as european governments, the greater security, your excellency sweden's efforts to join the military alliance help unblocked by 2 key you for more than a year. but now president regent type or the one has agreed to back it and j, gillian, we will open the weiss's weight and just as we did for finland,

i expressed mr. president, job button. and i have to underline it's a guy in here. we expect to visit from president, let him a piece in the next month. if this visit to took it takes place. we will also discuss the black sea greendale us has announced that attempts to send dozens of new f, 16 fighter jet to, to key a move it's previously health off on washington says, all this, the strengthening the military alliance. soon we will be able to say that since this war began, since russia invaded ukraine, we have, well, we'll have welcome to new members of nato with strong militaries, expanding both the size and the strength of the alliance. ukraine says it has earned the right to join nato by fighting a fight. you're a pass sought to avoid. but the alliance considers an attack on one member as an attack on all. and us president joe biden says ukraine, joining nato now could have disastrous consequences on

a going to come under. moscow has warned, it's monitoring the summit of carefully normal when you pull over you nature welcomes finland and sweden, but not ukraine. why? this is a question that should be addressed. we see multi 1000000000 dollar 8 packages given to you, crane by nature states. so why the hesitation to joining the alliance, which is up until a few years ago, nato was seen by many as a defunct alliance, lacking purpose. but now it appears to be re shaping tool politics in europe and beyond katia a little bit so the again for insights story. all right, for more on all of this, i'm joined by our guests in washington, dc is robert hunter, former us ambassador to nato and senior fellow at the center for transatlantic relations at johns hopkins university in brussels, is month to extreme senior policy fellow at the european council on foreign relations. and an as stumble is seen on olga and former turkish diplomat and senior

fellow at carnegie. you're a warm welcome to you want and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story . robert, let me start with you today. how important is it that may tow display units see at the summit, and how much unity is there right now amongst nato members? it was, that's the nature of the summit to show you energy, particularly to mr. potent in moscow. and in fact, it's a try to make sure that all a allies are indeed on the same page when it comes to confronting what mr. potent is doing with his war and ukraine. that includes getting each of the allies to made the so called target goal of 2 percent of gross domestic product spent on defense, which is uh, k 2, a 3 year to well actually for next year of that that's to point out there is going to be unity on that,

that are going to be disagreements. and the basic disagreement as the point at which ukraine will be asked to join a no, it's not going to happen now. and frankly, i don't think it's ever going to happen. but mr. zalesky of you, of ukraine, is pushing very hard to get the strongest commitment he possibly can match. how much has the war in ukraine change nato's relevance and has russia's invasion of ukraine, only served to strengthen the lights without thinking many ways the rest and unity over the ukraine and the supporting ukraine. against that suggestion is impressive at the speed, not discussion before on the depletion supposedly than they do within the european union. but so far there has been unimpressive unity. i mean, that sounds, i think it has also started from a to a scene on a after repeatedly blocking sweeties. membership for k now says that it's ready to

support it. why? why the change in the decision? what did turkey get in return from demand to the 2 things? one, a, an explicit commitment by sweden to be more discipline regarding the monitoring and prevention, off of the recruitment, fundraising activities off the terrorist lease entities in sweden. and yesterday, d, a. m o u and there was signed, also sets up a by actual mechanism between truck in sweden. so wanted to this. so this is one clear area where things have changed from the practice perspective. and the 2nd model, which will become perhaps more concrete in coming days, is us commitment to deliver uh the package of f sixteens,

which turkey had off onto the new summit. there was no firm commitment on the, on the side of the us administration, claiming that fundamentally it's up to congress to approve this. but now it seems that things have also changed off and that the us administration has cold turkey side that this transaction will go through. and this is what has essentially led to the agreement in bins. robert, you heard seen on there talk about the issue of the f sixteens of the us has announced that it will move ahead with the transfer of x f. 16 fighter just to turkey a in consultation with congress. this happened just a day after tequila gave the green light for sweden joining nato. is this what it was bound to come down to? i don't believe there was ever a chance to administer heritage on would deny suite and its membership in nato. how we've just been talking about surprise,

one point last week. how much data on talked about getting back to negotiations for turkey, joining the european union. and that's not going to happen. his, his real prize has been, as you've said, 2 fold for this ways to do more to block kurdish activities with in sweden. and secondly, to make sure they would get these arms from the united states. if it came down to the and that's the way it targeted, negotiate is not the only country that has a smart negotiator. much let me ask you when it comes to sweden joining nato. what kind of a timeline are we looking at when it comes to that happening? i think that the pounds a lot of on the talk is no justification procedure and also on the hungry that

state has not stratified as well. some people in sweden are hoping for a very, very rapid gratification before the talk is parliament, summer excess. but as far as i understand is more likely to happen during the war to amend the same with the hungry. but often those positions as a matter of base, as i understand it, i'm also not an expert on the us congress, but i might also think that i'm still there is clear public statements from the leadership in the us congress about this f. 16 airplane stop talking, my not to go for the photographs vacation before that, but that's just my speculation. seen on the president air, the one has been able to achieve this delicate balance in managing his relationship with nato, as well as his relationship with the russian president vladimir putin. now what circuit agreement to back sweden as a nato member, as well as president air, the one statement that ukraine deserves membership in nato. how much does that

complicate the turkey a russia relationship? as it does um, you are right in uh, stating that uh, turkey has crafted a delicate balance in this forum policy towards uh, russia, ukraine, 10, uh, the nato allies. uh, since the beginning of the war. uh, but that balance is shifted and we see that very clearly uh since the end of the electoral cycle in turkey. uh with a number of different develop once a one of them indeed are gone strongly back in the accession of ukraine to nato. but also incidentally, when is your lens t was in char key. uh, she went back home uh with the commanders of the also a freight shipment. uh who she pulled the word to remain in turkey and dental. so electoral reaction must call. and now this uh, also, uh, the,

the green light tingle, sweetens accessed sheets natal, when you take all of that it, it looks as if churches pull this young brush is also shifting as cherokees turning more towards the west. but also as a result of an assessment that russia is weakening both on the ground in ukraine, but also more particularly for puts in, in rushing. so the thing that let me follow up with you on that point is part of this calculation that might be happening now when it comes to present air. dwanda assessment of president putin is part of that. the president air, the one feels perhaps he has more leverage on president put in after this mutiny. that was stage by the wagner group. i mean, does president air the one for see president put in to be more of a weekend figure right now? yes, i would, i would say so not just because all the uprising in russia, but generally today, turkey is the only nature country that has

a high level of political engagement with russia. it's the only natural country that does not so much instructions against russia. the air corey though remains open. so this has become even more valuable for russia. it's russia is the increasing the isolate. and that provides leverage for, for turkey. and i want to re shift the balance of this relationship with russia. robert, when it comes to president biden's presence at the summit, obviously he's working. he's walking bit of a diplomatic type rope here. he's a lot that he has to balance. how much concern is there among nato members right now about upcoming elections in the us and 2024. how much worry is there that perhaps a figure like donald trump could be re elected? or is that a g o p white house when next year? could shatter nato going forward?

have to remember it's a long time between now and the your selections, hopefully already have everybody talking about them. and it's not even clear that mr. trump will fee the republican nominates. there has been some weakness on the if that's the right word on the republican side for continuing to spend as much money on the ukraine war. and the allies may wonder about that. but what mr. barton is doing is making sure everybody knows that's united states is locked in to supporting ukraine as much as is required short of a direct, military confrontation with russia to help your crane do as much as possible in this war. it's not really about your current joining nato. it's about solidarity by the lions to push back against russia. have no idea that it stays, being firmly committed on that. there is really no further doubt that that's going

to happen. it is the water. they've been muddied by the question about whether a ukraine or when ukraine would join nato. but the solidity of us a part for ukraine has been made clear by the president of the united states. and that is the thing that matters at nato mats. it keeps accept that it will not be able to join nato while at war with russia. but how much consensus is there right now, my nato members, that ukraine would be able to join when the war ends and what are the hurdles to that happening? well, i think uh uh there are various divisions within they do on that. this has been publication reported with the us and you, i'm going to taking a more cautious line and i think we have a lot to read that will be statements under the joint. uh victor ations. uh so let's give it a waste of the night to something,

but tonight i understand that, but i think we would not really know that until divorce. so we're, i'm, we know how that outcome looks. uh, the language now wouldn't be more general about the long term process. so that membership, but not with any concrete promises. but if they're, for example, it would be a negotiated aldacon, which people don't want to talk about. whereas shut somehow or it stays to try me or it might be rather difficult for a to, to allow your trade into the light, you know, so with that situation, stay on there. i don't know. we will see robert. i saw your nodding along to some of what months was sitting there and it looked like you wanted to jump in. so please go ahead. well, i'm kind of a loaner on this. i don't think your crane is ever going to join nato because it, it's an absolute consensus of all 31 countries. and right now i see united states in germany are out in the front. but

a lot of countries are hiding behind them. notably, france and, and the united kingdom. and when it comes down to it, a decision by individual countries to be willing to go to war for ukraine to declare war on russia if it were true, after the war to renew fighting against ukraine is just something that many of the olives are just not going to to shows us as a distraction. the basic thing at this moment is to show unity of purpose and unity of action in terms of what's actually done, not just words, to oppose the russian aggression. how far that would have to be pushed back before the patient has serious negotiations, is a matter of a, of a debate. i suspect in the final analysis, a rush you will have if not permanent gains in crime, in a shirt away, a special relationship. there is, i will go on

a for the indefinite future match. i saw you reacting now to what robert was saying, did you want to jump in as well? well, i can agree to a knocked on that, and that's what i'm saying to make these declarations. i don't know the way they how i talked to can 5 security guarantees. but i also want the us to emphasize that the massive support that need to has given through your train so far. i'm the new company at times now. well, i'm saw the web posted labor. it is from cross for excel bundles to jo. many now today i think so. so i mean launch are not under estimate of the kinds of support that they do is giving you training to win this more so. so thought the sort of some expression i think government sort of directive it to your train as seen on let me get your perspective and all this nato membership is something that can take decades to achieve ukraine. once a commitment to for a much quicker timeline, is that something that can actually happen to some extent the to can because there

is a discussion as we speak and natal about whether listing of the requirements of 1st offering a membership action plan, which was the best way for past enlargements can also be, can be done for ukraine because the step condition is lifted. the then, what would these be talking about or more accelerate, to timeline for ukraine. membership? pro wise is that, uh, there is a consensus with the nature of for, and enlargement to you and say around. let me also ask you uh, from your vantage point. how is nato changing the power dynamic across europe right now? off to the war in the frame, of course, nato has come to the forefront as the main guarantor of european security. it's become clear that despite many efforts since the

burgeoning over your ip security can defense identity, your opponent song is not going to be able to provide for these type of hardcore security guarantees for euro or for the neighborhood of you. and therefore, we've seen very clearly countries for meeting themselves even more from the true nature accepting to fulfill the 2 percent spending at the threshold. countries like squeeze and then send them to the after many, many decades of neutrality wants to join nature. a country like germany who for historical reasons, had not had, you know, significant defense budgets, accepting to upgrade their defense commitments. so, and ultimately the, all of these, all of these countries and all of these, the golf clubs are strengthening nature. those role in europe for, for the security of the conscience. robert, what are nato leaders most concerned about right now and,

and what would cause the most disagreement among member nations now is one of the biggest concern right now is solidarity against russian aggression, which is to continue prosecuting the war as far as is necessary. one thing that is not being discussed, maybe not even in private. here's what does that mean in practical terms when people talk about are ukranian victory? so far mr. button has been extremely careful about providing just for the for up and ready and getting other countries to provide web and right to help ukraine prevail on the immediate battlefield. but not to give them so much as they could actually drive a russia into a corner by b, let's say, pushed entirely out of a chest, the disputed region. the main if the side mainland ukraine would also and cry man,

so there has to be a balance truck there. so that is the real issue here at the summit. wells therapy solidarity in doing that. a swedish issue is always this side issue a when and if you're creating the actually drawing tomato is also another side issue. it's important. critical has the present and i just, i just made clear the other day to have mr. put and get the message that he will not be able to crack the will of nato. and that the battle will continue until he gets that message and is willing to negotiate something less. and he has been demanding a mass here. and robert, there, talk about the message that nato would like to convey to president putin. moscow a has warrant that it's monitoring the summit carefully. what kind of a response do you think we might see from president put in going forward?

but i'm thinking the current situation is options are all the lead me to the if you go back now to the ballistics c area. and so he didn't seamless accession rush of us threatening different kinds of actions them, they most certainly change their, made it through post jury in that area. but for now, the draft from the army in particular is so designated by the board and do crating that to their options are not that big. but uh, i am sure that they are considering all their options and we do have both in the us. they do also as some job mountains, that dog all they're close to, to your shy we're having to come in. yeah. an extra news to lock. yes. well, this is not the kind of, i mean, this is more in france at that as he'd done. but i think that cost aging,

very many options, but that their ability not always strong. the limited i've seen, i'd like to talk for a few more minutes about how much concern there is among some nato nations when it comes to promises a potential membership to ukraine. is, is the fear essentially, that this would give russia and incentive to both escalate and to drag out the war? well, there's that, but also there's a more long term issue of, uh, basically whether ukraine's territorial integrity can be guarantee. and because indeed, we don't know what sort of political sets of months will emerge after the war. hopefully, it will emerge in a way that guarantees ukraine territory, the integrity. but if it does not, for instance, of the crime, if the, if russia decides to not even negotiate the states of crimea, for instance,

that's going to be a huge issue for nato because the countries will need to enter nature with their full territory. only integrity. that's also somewhat the case for georgia, so that's the way also a big concern. but i just want to come back to the question that you would ask them best they're hunter. i think the biggest concern today in europe about nato is about the future of us politics. and this is something that you already alluded to a moment ago because the european leaders have experienced the trump era. they, sol, how time for hall trump had actually gone this far as this credit credit be that your article 5 and now there is another prospect which is about china and taiwan. so a different us government that would have other proclivities might very soon turn and to but to east asia. and therefore it would also be um,

any impediment to overall nature deterrence to, to time when war in the center of europe is still continuing. so that's one of the major concerns that you hear in europe about the future of nato to match up until a few years ago. nato was seen by a lot of people as well. some would say growing lee in effective uh, maybe not as important as it had been in the past, but now it seems to be a moment where it stature is changing a lot. that's re shaping geo politics in europe and beyond. how much has the perception of nato changed in the moment that we're in right now? yes, i think you're right there in that the test chain stand. it does show and us we have discussed the unit the uh, in supporting ukraine as that that is for now if you see this as a long term process, i agree it to a lot of the found on the,

the next to us president will do. and there is all of the additional discussion within the european a to allies air of the need to be able to more of their own capabilities spot them, they do. but also because of that more general us shift towards a shy i'm but a safe take. read in this, so how the picture will look on they do, we don't know the outcome of the rough sort of the ukraine. of course. hopefully that will be a week 3 of a kind for, for your trade. i found that to be that made to ask these kind of beta to now, but i still think these challenges remain. but to discuss the locked a few years ago, i was on the trump administration of the long term address daily. and so the alliance. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guest, robert hunter, mustangs, trump, and seen on olga. and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any

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arbitrarily. when a journalist reports on an issue most in line with the officials, they come off to you. the constitution guarantees media freedom as long as journalists do not endanger the amount of republic, offend the supreme leader and do not spread false information. it leaves plenty of room for interpretation and subjective censorship. the hello there, i am, the spelling of your day in the hall with the headlines here on out as they are. the head of nature says, ukraine is now closer to the military lines than ever before. the insulting bag met the canyon president and the list to alien capital vilnius. front of me is landscape, says he understands that you cannot store in nature one a tool. we have agreed the tree part package, bringing ukraine closer to an a to a multi ed program or practical assistance establishing and you need to ukraine

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