everyone has the police, one of up here says pipe top immediately and says this is american economic car wash. what would you say that the guy watching like struggling to but it's only going to be me is targeting vulnerable, but it's, it's important to have this conversation we need to talk about and not about narrative the street on algae 0. can egypt help in the war? in sudan, cairo is hosting a regional summit for the warring sides are not there. so can diplomacy work this time? and what's the fall out of this conflict on the reach? this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much enjoyment egypt is attempting to end the fighting and sudan by hosting a summit of regional leaders. but sedans warning sides have not been invited. the

united nations is warning. the conflict could turn into a full scale civil war that could further the stabilize the region. millions of people have already been displaced and more fighting will likely worse than an already dire humanitarian situation. and that will have further consequences for students neighbors. so will the cairo's stomach lead to some sort of compromise? if not what the stake for the entire region. we'll get to our guests in a moment, but 1st this report from katya lopez for the young c. it's it on months of finding in sudan is lowering its neighbors, egypt, presidents and divided leaders from countries headquarters through dan, to cairo to find a solution. the you, when is a warning, the conflict may soon turn into a full scale civil war. the could spread to other nations where then we'll talk about that a drop and we'll go ahead even 1st we're calling on warring sides and sit on to stop the escalation and begin serious negotiations for a ceasefire. and 2nd,

we call and also to these parties to facilitate the delivery of humanitarian supplies and the safe passage to areas that need it most for model and developing a plan to guarantee protection for humanitarian aid convoys and international release employees to facilitate their work and how may cease fires between students army and it's wible. the rapids support forces have been repeatedly broken, present, verified though c. c is trying to change that. but egypt which historically has had close ties with. the sudanese army did not advise to dance, warring factions to the summit might have some of the yeah. the, what's known as the current government has lost control of the situation is so non, they've lost the trust of the neighboring countries. or you can even say of countries across the recent file. and the conflict has led to

a major humanitarian crisis within 3 months, more than 3000000 people in sudan has been displaced. about $700000.00 of them have gone to neighboring countries, many of which were already struggling with their own economic and political issues of the country. chad is suffering due to the consequences of what's happening and should um, within one wake, we receive more than a $150000.00 refugees. most of them women and children. the fighting, which started in the capital cartoon, has now spread westward to the already devastated to our 4 regions. the united nations says the bodies of at least $87.00 people were found in a mass grave there. and says, the rapids support forces may have been responsible, a claim, the rest of denies, amid a power struggle with no clear winner, there is concern of further escalation. now the question is whether regional

leaders will manage to find a solution, katia lopez. so again, for insights, story the all right, let's go and bring in our guess in cairo, sorry, kira founder and director of the european north african center for research in washington dc, georgia of coffee or the ceo of golf state analytics, or us pay us based your political risk consulting firm and in london, the one i'm a political commentator who fled from her home in the sudanese capital headstone warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. so let me start with you today. so this initiative being presented by egyptian president opposite that his cc, it's based on a ceasefire. the opening of state passages for aid and a comprehensive dialogue among other things. what are the steps that mr. assistant is proposing that need to be taken in order to achieve this and can diplomacy from

your point of view, can diplomacy work this time? so it's very hard to predict the diplomacy can um, work this time it's more of, i see, does more of pressuring the to, uh, well, the 2 war parties in sudan through the neighboring countries, the neighboring countries. well, the summit peelers are 3 more most important pillars 1st, which is the humanitarian relief for the food in these people, which is a worry, i be worried for all the international society at the humanitarian classes, but sidney's brother and sister spacing now, so this is the 1st spieler of the summit, 2nd feeler diplomacy or a political settlement like lucy, those today we're trying to settle on one political plan or action plan to a like

a try and pressure the to war parties. and so then to cease fire, and this will not be true diplomacy as much as it's through pressuring the specially the speed arm it forces because we have to, i was tried and this is why the 1st ministerial meeting for the summit to lean, try the there been so many disturbing reports that have emerged out of the conflict in sudan. we've heard from the you when you in says a mass grave containing at least 87 bodies has been discovered in sedan to west are for region. the victims were reportedly members of an ethnic minority group. the u . s. human rights office, condemned the killings, and said that it had credible information that the rapid support forces were responsible. the r s. f of course, denies that claim. how does this news that has emerged impact the prospect a piece going forward that impacts?

it's simply because both sides are violating, you know, they're violating so many conventions. and so many treaties through this and dirt and this floor makes no difference because they've been denying everything. i mean, is there anything you throw up them or you accuse them of each side denies it. so if the rest of his, the ones is committing murder and genocide and raping females, the army from its own side is arresting and holding without trials of democracy, civilian activists, that the resistance committee activists. so both sides are dark, are violates, are in violation of so many agreements. and at the same time, i mean hearing about the subjects in cairo. mean they can hold as many segments as they want. but if both sides have no intention to end this war, that is just end of the day, it's just a group of leaders meeting in the nice room and discussing things that have no

effect. and it will have no effect on the reality, which is what's happening right now in sit on. so it, to me, it's just, unfortunately, it's just another way of to just further extend this war and all these talks and all these meetings will have little effect. georgia, you heard daddy, are there talk about the facts. you said that you can have as many summit's as you want, but if the warring parties aren't really wanting to engage with each other and to try to stop this conflict, not much can be achieved. egypt is hosting the leaders of sedans, neighbors in order to find ways to try and in the conflict. but the warring, certainly these factions haven't been invited. so what can be achieved without the presence of those warring factions as well? i think the skepticism that many people have expressed is well founded. what the egyptian leadership obviously believes is that it's absolutely necessary for there to be greater regional and international cooperation with the leaders of all the

countries that border sudan, putting pressure on the say from the r s f to come to some sort of an arrangement that can bring some peace and stability back to sudan. i would add though, that for while you rightly point out that the absence of the 2 warring sides is problem attic. there is also a problem that the civilian elements of sudan, the elements who were critical to the 20182019 revolution. and those who actually have legitimacy among different communities in sudan, they're absences problematic. and then all add to that, that the absence of some other outside actors that are playing uh, influential roles in sudan as such as some of the gcc countries that is also a bit problematic to. and i think we have to be concerned about how some of the

external actors who are not present in egypt to dates have potential to play some spoiler rolls. daddy. i saw your reactive something with georgia was saying there and it looked like you might want to jump in, so please go ahead. i know it's a, i agree completely with what he said. i mean, from the beginning ever since this conflict started until today, the civilian aspect has been severely curtailed and pushed to the sidelines. all lead the in regards. it's from the subsidies from the said, any civilian points of view, some of the civilian actors. we do not agree that they should represent a thing simply because of their failures in the past, but at the same time they need to be there. and i agree, i mean you had the god meeting a few few days ago and you had the likes of the c o. p and, and the candy and a representative is present and saying they should be of no slotting. so already the language that has been coming up from all the summits has been quite

problematic and the worry some other sneeze. because this to me just seems to extend the war even further. and the other part is to the part to the parties, to accomplish the gcc, i old main, the saudi arabia and the what you have a big role to play. and yet they seem to be reluctant to come out. they'll come up to the forefront and say ok, this is what we're going to do simply because it place to their own interest, what's happening. and then you have the role in the united states and who's consistently insisting on sending a representative, who, in my opinion is one of the sol reasons why we're, we're in the mess we are right now. while the fee shrink doesn't say she's the best in my opinion, she's completely and up to the job for the job. and so there's a lot of actors to this conflict and either they're playing the cards close to their chest, or they just pulling, so to speak. with the situation and the longer this takes, the longer this conflict continues, the worst of the situation will become not just force to them and this is the needs

but for our neighboring countries, regional issues and old resource issues, the warranty or the rainy season is coming up, it's just a mess and no one seems to have a clear idea as to how to go about to put into this conflict. georgia, i just want to ask you to elaborate on some comments you made a few moments ago in your previous answer. when you talked about some g, c, c, countries that were involved in promoting the conflicts, i wanted to ask you to please elaborate on that. well, after president bashir fell from power in 2019, what we saw was saudi arabia in the u. a. e step in very decisively and as a consequence of this year, is fall of re audience would be gained a tremendous amount of cloud in sudan. and i would say out of all of the gcc countries, probably it's the way it has been most active. and most influential in sudan when

we talk about the r s f. and we talked about how i met the and the extent to which this war, lord has become so powerful in sudan. it's impossible to ignore the emerald t factor. you know, i'm at the, helped out the, i'm a rock d as in libya and also in e. m, in they, from the perspective of abu dhabi, he represents a bulwark against political islam in sudan. so this relationship between the u a. e and the r s. f is incredibly important, i think looking ahead or i don't believe the r s f as in a position to completely knock out the army and have some sort of a decisive victory. but perhaps this conflict will freeze at some point with the army and the r s f. having this sort of share some power under some sort of an arrangement in the u. e will continue to be able to assert its influence in sudan

through this very powerful military apparent military force. sorry, since the beginning of the conflict, more than 3000000 people in sudan have been displaced about 700000 of them have gone to neighboring countries. i want to ask you about how much concern there is that more fighting will only deepen this already dire humanitarian crisis. and also how much concern there is from neighbors of sudan who feel that they aren't equipped to handle a potentially more of an influx of people who are fleeing through that as okay. um, of course egypt as one of the 1st countries, as well as the neighboring countries who are collect it today or meeting today for a collective work to work on that piece action plan for saddam. because those are the countries that are taking gold and negative conflict caught a consequence of the civil war. and it's very hard for us. it's very sad to call it the civil war, but it is a war over resources and power and they importance of collecting. we're meeting up

with the neighboring countries today, the 1st, the 1st of all, because we are the people with the most numbers afraid for disease or hosting refugees from sudan. so they are the 1st borders to a barrier, the negative consequence of the conflict. second, with all the risks that we can calculate out of having a problem. i think civil war on our borders of the 1st thing is the misery of the sudanese people. so um in egypt is, as you all know, we have received a huge number of perfect reasons. it's affecting goals, course, our resources as well. and the neighboring countries have influence over how much the speaking of how much senior has very close ties from chad. and he's been funding that by chad or, and you know,

because of the tribal nature of sudan and some of the neighboring countries. some of them are helping some tribes are helping him make the and the absence of the both a fighting parties and so down in this farm it is because it's a civil war. it's because 2 parties have neglected the misery of the people and continue to bar barclay or to fiercely fight each other overs sources empower neglecting the humanitarian crises and neglecting the future of the so the new people. so today we have taken of the responsibility of egypt and egyptians as well because we are very worried, i meant this economic crisis. we want every one to leave peacefully, specially in those countries neighboring does and board during wines with us because enough problems, egypt has now and enough here come from

a crisis. egypt has now that's why on the summit today, there has been a call for the inclusion of the civil society, especially women, athens here's there hasn't been neglecting a, uh like, uh, neglecting a how the colon, sorry, neglecting courses or neglecting um, a sports efforts. that's the word i'm looking for so far, so i'm just trying to be, i'm sorry to interrupt you. it's just that we are, we are starting to run out of time. and i, i just wanna ask a dolly a question about another initiative that, that's been going on recently to try to bring it into the conflict. if you have, if you will be in 5 minutes, drop it off mode. he has called for this egyptian initiative that is being worked on now to essentially coincide with the i got initiative which had been announced earlier. but of course relations between egypt and if you have been strain these

past few years. so does that complicate the push for peace? there's always complicates because as i said in these, i will always wonder what salty are your motive behind any suffering the countries pushed for peace. and so that at this moment in time, uh, simply because i think outside actors have played the significant role in destabilizing this country ever since the revolution in 2019. but at the same time, i welcome any initiative from any site that will actually somehow concrete. we bring an end to this semester, but i don't know, i mean it's c o p a has been, there's being top if you'll be a supports the r a step because of the, the issue. and there's also, of course, egypt supports the army because it's and then says seduce and, and also again because of the water and the dam issue. and so it's, i think in the mix of all of this assess to the knees and not just like to correct

satera. it's not quite the civil war because the so these people are not, are not citing with either side. we're the ones who are caught in the middle. so this is a warning between 2 heads of military units and we're the ones who are paying the price. and it's, it's a horrific situation to be in because for so long. so don was an old, was a country that took in so many refugees and migrants, and yet now we are the ones who are seeking refuge and also the doors have been closed on us. and it's, it's a hard situation to, you know, to, and to appreciate because there's always so much that we can do. but at the same time, i mean, i have a whole very low hopes for anything to come up from any of the summits. but that's all we have at this moment and i'm hoping there's a break through somehow. and i think the breakthrough will come from those who can pull, who can younger change, harder on either side,

whether it's the army or the are assessed. nadia if i could, if i could just ask you as well, um, obviously it's very emotional having to deal with all of this. um, how painful has it been for you for your family, for your loved ones? i mean i go to that every day. i just have one prayer, i go back home so. so it's so it's terrific because there's nothing i can do. there's only so much i can do. i'm to just hear you read and let's just so that seems to be any i don't know. i don't know, i just, you know, it's just a horrible situation to be in terrible, indeed, giorgio, you wrote a piece recently in which you discussed some of the security threats that egypt might face. there was a conflict in sudan and you said that non state actors could potentially exploit to dance crisis in ways that would directly threaten egypt. how might that play out?

yeah, well the egypt and leadership had to deal with the, the conflict in libya, which created a tremendous amount of concern in cairo about the potential for various non state actors, terrorist organizations to infiltrate egypt from libya. now with the situation ensued in there are of course, these concerns in play, which helps us understand why the egyptians have been so determined to try to secure a ties their southern border obviously is everyone knows for many years on egypt has dealt with terrorism crises and if there is on a scenario whereby sudan does break out into, in all out civil war, we deal with total state collapse. they're going to be many power vacuums in sudan

. that very nefarious actors. i have the potential to exploit. this is a concern for egypt. it's also a concern for countries in the gulf, you know, on saudi arabia, for example, is trying to hide, you know, advance these projects aligned with vision 2030 on the kingdoms red sea coast. so a terrorism crisis in sudan could impact countries in the re being peninsula, other countries in africa. so it's not my point is it's not just egypt, but all of the countries in the region have very good reason to be concerned about what on state collapse and dangerous power vacuum seems to dan. good mean for everybody. sorry, it looked to me like you were nodding in agreement to a lot of what georgia was saying there, and it looks like you want to jump in, so please go ahead to yes. and the security threats is one of the what, what,

what is on the egyptian mines. so then these people are on that addiction lines as that is so that my heart goes to you that we had a lot of egyptians working. so then now we're receiving sudanese and back our injections were working there. it's a situation that no one wishes sedan to be in and out of jail, politically speaking, uh, adding up to what joe joe said is that all neighboring countries have to be not only for the humanitarian crisis, which is the biggest on our minds now. but also for their own security, people to play speaking also for the neighboring countries. that's why i was trying to reflect some hope to down here that it might, it might go, well, it is civil war, not because people are involved in it or getting good show there. so then these people are so much better than that. but it's because we're dealing with the consequence of a bush years through the power. he created the very strong param,

latree that now tribes are supporting with weapons and the army armies tossed and everything. and this world will extend as long as some of the neighboring countries because of the tribal nature, are working with have bt or the national army feet of the to the national army. so then of course he, egypt has an interest of values set to deal with them because you all would like to do as a state, you always like to deed with a tact party or the party that has an interest of the stab lives in the country. in sedans in so down a situation that has not been the case by the army because the army has had in sliding into the civil war and has been slightly bit into that. so now to rush or to pressure on both parties. i took care of for the people and to stop fighting over whatever there is,

but they are fighting about either power or resources or the rule of sudan in the future. this is to be determined by the sword and these people and the institutions of so dead. the future of sedan will be the term or by the sudanese people by the neighboring countries are pushing for that because there is no 1st breaking not political settlement until those fighting parties stop those military actions for the sake of the people and saving this humanitarian crisis. now, what is not a problem to solve the 19 revolution legitimate revolution asking for satellite, using their country and prosperity and welfare as it should be to a civil war between 2 very strong parties, which is the army and another foreign military forces that's being supported to stop this support and just stop sorta like we have to sort. i'm great. i'm sorry,

i'm sorry to interrupt you again. it's just, we only have a couple of minutes left. i do need to get back to adobe and ask one last question of value. egypt has historically have close ties with the sudanese army um, from your vantage point, does that make this task as far as pushing for piece easier for egypt or more difficult? it's not going to be easy, but i think it just in the way hesitated smartly. so far they've, we've, they've kept quiet, they've kept all the sidelines, and i think they waited for others to do their part and to the failures of the other size. has allowed egypt to step up and say ok, let's do this and we can do it this way and having read what president c. c said that they, they, but the summit is to do no 5 seems to be the most concrete steps taken to somehow bring an end or like a low, the 3 months face to face and the conflict. it's

a good idea. the safe passage of humanitarian aid, so on so forth. so i hope, i mean, i do hope safety vision, you know, initiative works. but any, the day if all the parties concerned or, or parties who are, have a stake in this issue, don't pay their part. it's futile, it's just absolutely useless because and, and that goes to not just the neighboring countries, but it also goes to regional powers and international affairs as well. all right, well, we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guests. satar kira georgia of coffee or, and the optimal 9. and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website alger 0 dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash age and side story. you could also during the conversation on twitter handle is that a j inside story for me and how much i'm human the whole team here, bye for now. the

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01 to blow by the perspectives the, [000:00:00;00] the flow on the bulk of this is to use our license though coming up in the next 60 minutes, saving lives on the battlefield. we report from a field hospital near the front lines and eastern new crane. us present wraps up a meeting in finland with norfolk leaders. the reason this become much more