when the news breaks, i'm in front of the building up was hit with a drawer and i talked to you and that's when people need to be hurt. and the story needs to be told. i wanted to cry as if i'd never see my parents and country again with exclusive interviews and in depth reports the irrigation canals are nearly empty out just the right has changed on the grass. they've just staring interaction harriman's access to bring you more award winning document trees and light news. i can egypt help in the war in sudan, cairo is hosting a regional summit for the war. a size are not there. so can diplomacy work this time? and what's the fall out of this conflict on the reach? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much enjoyment egypt is attempting to end the fighting and sudan by hosting a summit of regional leaders. but you down to warning sides have not been invited. the united nations is warning. the conflict could turn into a full scale civil war that could further the stabilize the region. millions of people have already been displaced and more fighting with likely worse and already dire humanitarian situation, and that will have further consequences for saddam's neighbors. so will the cairo summit lead to some sort of compromise? if not, what's at stake for the entire region. we'll get to our guests in a moment, but 1st this report from katya lopez for the young missy looks it on months of finding in sudan is worrying its neighbors. the dips presidents and divided leaders from countries headquarters, sudan to cairo, to find a solution. the u. n is warning, the conflicts may soon turn into a full scale civil for the could spread to other nations. when we're talking

about the heavy. but 1st, we're calling on warring sides and sit on to stop the escalation and begin serious negotiations for a cease by a 2nd. we call on all suiting these parties to facilitate the delivery of humanitarian supplies and the safe passage to areas that needed mice. and developing a plan to guarantee protection for humanitarian aid, con, voice and international release, employees to facilitate their work and how may to seize fires between students, army and its wible. the rapids support forces have been repeatedly broken president of the font though c. c is trying to change that. but egypt which historically has had close ties with the sudanese army did not advise to dance. warring factions to the summit might have some of the year of the, what's known as the current government has lost control of the situation is so non, they've lost the trust of the neighboring countries. or you can even say of

countries across the recent file. and the conflict has led to a major humanitarian crisis within 3 months, more than 3000000 people in sudan has been displaced. about $700000.00 of them have gone to a neighboring countries, many of which were already struggling with their own economic and political issues . they like country chad is suffering due to the consequences of what's happening and should um, within one week we receive more than a 150000 refugees. most of them women and children. the fighting, which started in the capital cartoon, has now spread westward to the already devastated to our 4 regions. the united nations says the bodies of at least $87.00 people were found in a mass grave there. and says, the rapids support forces may have been responsible,

a claim, the iris of denies amid a power struggle with no clear winner, there is concern of further escalation. now the question is whether regional leaders will manage to find a solution, katia lopez. so again, for insights story the all right, let's go and bring in our guests in cairo sar, kira founder and director of the european north african center for research in washington dc, georgia will cover you at or the ceo of golf state analytics or us pay us based your political risk consulting firm and in london, the one i'm a political commentator who fled from her home in the sudanese capital headstone warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. so let me start with you today. so this initiative being presented by egyptian president opposite to his cc. it's based on a ceasefire, the opening of se passengers for aid and a comprehensive dialogue among other things. what are the steps that mr. assisi is

proposing that need to be taken in order to achieve this and can diplomacy from your point of view, can diplomacy work this time? it's very hard to predict. the diplomacy can um, work this time it's more of, i see it as more of pressuring the to what the to war parties in sudan through the neighboring countries, the neighboring countries. well, the summit peelers are 3 more most important pillars 1st, which is the human a tear and really for the food and these people, which is a worry, a big worry for all the international society. uh the humanitarian classes, but sudanese brother and sister spacing now. so this is the 1st spieler of the summit, 2nd feeler diplomacy or a political settlement, like really those today we're trying to settle on one political plan or action

plan to a like a try and for i sure the to war parties. and so then to cease fire. so this will not be through diplomacy as much as it's through pressuring the specially the speed army forces, because we have to, i is, was tried. and this is why the 1st ministerial meeting for the summit to lean track the there been so many disturbing reports that have emerged out of the conflict in sudan. we've heard from the you when you in says a mass grave containing at least 87 bodies has been discovered in sedan to west are for region. the victims were reportedly members of an ethnic minority group, the u. n's human rights office, condemned the killings, and said that it had credible information that the rapid support forces were responsible. the r s f of course denies that claim. how does this news that has

emerged impact the prospect of peace going forward? it impacts it's simply because both sides are violating, you know, they're violating so many conventions. and so many treaties through this and dirt and this floor makes no difference because they've been denying everything. i mean, is there anything you throw up them or you accuse them of each side denies it. so if the rest of his, the ones is committing murder and genocide and raping females, the army from its own side is arresting and holding without trials of democracy. civilian activists that the resistance committee activists, so both sides are dark, are, violates, are in violation of so many agreements. and at the same time, i mean hearing about the subjects in cairo. mean they can hold as many segments as they want. but if both sides have no intention to end this war,

that is just the end of the day. it's just a group of leaders meeting in the nice room and discussing things that have no effect. and it will have no effect on the reality, which is what's happening right now and so done. so it, to me, it's just, unfortunately, it's just another way of to just further extend this war and all these talks and all these meetings will have little effect. georgia, you heard daddy, are there talk about the facts, she said that you can have as many summits as you want. but if the warring parties aren't really wanting to engage with each other and to try to stop this conflict, not much can be achieved. egypt is hosting the leaders of sedans, neighbors in order to find ways to try and in the conflict. but the warring suited these factions haven't been invited. so what can be achieved without the presence of those warring factions as well? i think the skepticism that many people have expressed is well founded. what the

egyptian leadership obviously believes is that it's absolutely necessary for there to be greater regional and international cooperation with the leaders of all the countries that border sudan, putting pressure on the say from the r s f to come to some sort of an arrangement that can bring some peace and stability back to sudan. i would add though, that for while you rightly point out that the absence of the 2 warring sides is problem attic. there is also a problem that the civilian elements of sudan, the elements who were critical to that 20182019 revolution. and those who actually have legitimacy among different communities in sudan, they're absences problematic. and then all add to that, that the absence of some other outside actors that are playing uh, influential roles in sudan. so just some of the gcc countries that is also

a bit problematic to and i think we have to be concerned about how some of the external actors who are not present in egypt to dates have potential to play some spoiler rolls. daddy. i saw your reactive something with georgia was saying there and it looked like you might want to jump in, so please go ahead. i know it's a, i agree completely with what he said. i mean, from the beginning ever since this conflict started until today, the civilian aspect has been severely curtailed and pushed to the sidelines. all lead the in regards. it's from the subsidies from the city civilian point of view, some of the civilian actors. we do not agree that they should represent the sink simply because of their failures in the past. but at the same time they need to be there. and i agree, i mean you had the god meeting a few few days ago and you had the likes of the c o. p and, and the candy and

a representative is present and saying they should be of no slotting. so already the language that has been coming out from all the summits has been quite problematic and the worry some other cities because this to me just seems to extend the war even further. and the other part is to the party. the other part is to accomplish the g, c, c i o main, the saudi arabia and the what you have a big role to play. and yet they seem to be reluctant to come out. they'll come up to the forefront and say ok, this is what we're going to do, is simply because it place to their own interest, what's happening. and then you have the role in the united states and who's consistently insisting on sending a representative, who in my opinion is one of the sol reasons why we're, we're in the mess we are right. 8 now, while the fee shrink, does it say she's in that, in my opinion, she's complete the end up to the job for the job. and so there's a lot of actors to this conflict and either they're playing the cards close to

their chest, or they just pulling, so to speak, with the situation. and the longer this takes, the longer this conflicts continues. the worst of the situation will become not just force to them, and this is the news, but for our neighboring countries, regional issues and old resource issues, the warranty or the rainy season, it's coming up. it's just a mess. and no one seems to have a clear idea as to have to go about to put into this conflict. georgia, i just want to ask you to elaborate on some comments you made a few moments ago when your previous answer, when you talked about some gcc countries that were involved in promoting the conflicts. i wanted to ask you to please elaborate on that. well, after president bush chair fell from power in 2019, what we saw was saudi arabia in the u. a. e step in very decisively. and as a consequence of this year, is fall of re audience would be gained a tremendous amount of cloud in sudan. and i would say out of all of the gcc

countries, probably it's the way it has been most active and most influential in sudan when we talk about the r s f. and we talked about how i met the and the extent to which this war, lord has become so powerful in sudan. it's impossible to ignore the emerald t factor. you know, i'm at the, helped out the, i'm a rock d as in libya and also in e. m, in they, from the perspective of abu dhabi, he represents a bulwark against political islam in sudan. so this relationship between the u a. e and the r s. f is incredibly important, i think looking ahead, i don't believe the r at step is in a position to completely knock out the army and have some sort of a decisive victory. but perhaps this conflict will freeze at some point with the army and the, our assets having to sort of share some power under some sort of an arrangement in

the u. e will continue to be able to assert its influence in sudan through this very powerful military apparent military force. sorry, since the beginning of the conflict, more than 3000000 people in sudan have been displaced about 700000 of them have gone to neighboring countries. i want to ask you about how much concern there is that more fighting will only deepen this already dire humanitarian crisis. and also how much concern there is from neighbors of sudan who will feel that they aren't equipped to handle a potentially more of an influx of people who are fleeing through that. okay, um of course, egypt as one of the 1st countries as well as the neighboring countries who are collect it today or meeting today for a collective work to work on that piece action plan for sit down because those are the countries that are taking gold and negative conference call,

a consequence of the a civil war and it's very hard for us. it's very sad to call it a civil war, but it is a war over resources and power and the importance of collecting, we're meeting up with the neighboring countries today. the 1st of the, of all, because they are the people with the most numbers of frank reduce or hosting refugees from sudan. so they are the 1st borders to a buried the negative consequence of the conflict. second, with all the risks that we can calculate out of having a problem. i think civil war on our borders of the 1st thing is the misery of the sudanese people. so um in egypt is, as you all know, we have received a huge number of for, for choosing that affecting goals course, our resources as well. and the neighboring countries have influence over how much

the speaking of how much senior has very close ties from chad and he's being funded by chad. oh, and you know, because of the tribal nature of sudan and some of the neighboring countries, some of them are helping some tribes are helping him at the end. the absence of the both a fighting parties in sudan in this farm. it is because it's a civil war. it's because 2 parties have neglected the misery of the people and continue to bar barclay, or to fiercely fight each other over resources empower neglecting the humanitarian crises and neglecting the future of the southern new people. so today we have taken of the responsibility of egypt and egyptians as well because we are very worried, i meant this economic crisis. we want every one to leave to peacefully,

specially in those countries neighboring does and bordering lions with us. because in most problems, egypt has now and enough here cannot come a crisis. egypt has now that's why on the summit today, there has been a call for the inclusion of the civil society, especially women. athens here's there hasn't been neglecting a, uh, like, uh you collecting a how the coolest, sorry, neglecting courses or neglecting at ports efforts. that's the word i'm looking for so far, so i'm just trying to be, i'm sorry to interrupt you. it's just that we are, we are starting to run out of time. and i, i just want to ask a question about another initiative that, that's been going on recently to try to bring it into the conflict. if you have, you'll be in 5 minutes, drop it off mode. he is called for this egyptian initiative that is being worked on

now to essentially coincide with the i got initiative which had been announced earlier, but of course relations between egypt and if you, if you had been strained these past few years. so does that complicate the push for piece it is always complicates because as i said in these i will always one of the was salty or your motive behind any suffering the countries pushed for peace. and so that at this moment in time, uh, simply because i think outside the actors have saved a significant role in destabilizing this country ever since the revolution in 2019 . but at the same time, i welcome any initiative from any side that will actually somehow concrete could bring an end to this semester. but i don't know. i mean, if c o p a has to be there is a being top. if you will be a supports the r a step because of the them issue. and there's also of course, egypt supports the army because it's and then says seduce and,

and also again because of the water and the them issue. and so it's, i think in the mix of all of this also, so the knees and i just like to correct cetera. it's not quite the civil war because the so these people are not, are not citing with either side. we're the ones who are caught in the middle. so this is a warning between 2 head, so military units and we're the ones who are paying the price. and it's, it's a whole real fix situation to be in because for so long. so that was an old, was a country that took in so many refugees and migrants. and yet now we are the ones who are seeking refuge and also the doors have been closed on us. and it's, it's a hard situation to, you know, to, and to appreciated because there's always so much that we can do. but at the same time, i mean, i have a whole very low hopes for anything to come up from any of the summits. but that's all we have at this moment and i'm hoping there's

a breakthrough somehow. and i think the breakthrough will come from those who can pull the who can young could change harder on either side, whether it's the army or the or assess that. yeah, if i could, if i could just ask you as well, um, obviously it's very emotional having to deal with all of this. um, how painful has it been for you for your family, for your loved ones? i mean, i go to that every day, i just have one prayer, i go back home so so it's so it's terrific because there's nothing i can do. there's only so much i can do. i'm just here you read and this just doesn't seem to be any i don't know. i don't know. i just, you know, it's just a horrible situation to be in. terrible. indeed, giorgio, you wrote a piece recently in which you discussed some of the security threats that egypt might face. there was a conflict in sudan,

and you said that non state actors could potentially exploit to dance crisis in ways that would directly threaten egypt. how might that play out? yeah, well, the egypt and leadership had to deal with the, the conflict in libya, which created a tremendous amount of concern in cairo about the potential for various non state actors, terrorist organizations to infiltrate egypt from libya. now with the situation ensued in there are of course, these concerns in play, which helps us understand why the descriptions have been so determined to try to secure a ties their southern border, obviously, is everyone knows for many years on egypt has dealt with terrorism crises, and if there is on a scenario whereby sudan does break out into, in all out civil war,

we deal with total state collapse. they're going to be many power vacuums in sudan . that very nefarious actors. i have the potential to exploit. this is a concern for egypt. it's also a concern for countries in the gulf, you know, on saudi arabia, for example, is trying to hide, you know, advance these projects aligned with vision 2030 on the kingdoms red sea coast. so a terrorism crisis in sudan could impact countries in the re being peninsula, other countries in africa. so it's not my point is it's not just egypt, but all of the countries in the region have very good reason to be concerned about what on state collapse and dangerous power. vacuum seems sedan could mean for everybody. a sorry, look to me like you were nodding in agreement to a lot of what georgia was saying there, and it looks like you want to jump in,

so please go ahead to yes. and the security threats is one of the what, what, what is on the egyptian mines. so then these people are on the egyptian lines as that he has said that my heart goes to you. that we had a lot of egyptians working. so then now we're receiving sudanese and back our addiction. so we're working there. it's a situation that no one wishes sedan to be in and out of jail, politically speaking, uh, adding up to what joe joe said is that all neighboring countries have to be not only for the human, a tearing crisis, which is the biggest on our minds. now, but also for their own security, people to play speaking also for the neighboring countries. that's why i'm trying to reflect some hope to down here that it might, it might go, well, it is civil war. no, because people are involved in it or getting good show there. so then these people are so much better than that. but it's because we're dealing with the consequence

of a bush years through the power. he created a very strong param, latree that now tribes are supporting with weapons and the army armies tossed and everything. and this world will extend as long as some of the neighboring countries because of the tribal nature, are working with him. b, p or the national army feet of the to the national army. so then of course, he, egypt has an interest of values that to deal with them because you all would like to do as a study to always like to deed with a tact party or the party that has an interest of the stabilizing, the, the, the country in sedans in so down a situation that has not been the case by the army because the army has had in sliding into the civil war and has been slot i did into that. so now to

rush or to pressure on both parties, i took care of for the people to stop fighting over whatever there is. but they are fighting about either power or resources or the rule of sudan in the future. this is to be determined by the sword and these people and the institutions of so that the future of sedan will be to turn over by the sudanese people. but the neighboring countries are pushing for that because there is no 1st breaking not political settlement until those fighting parties stop those military actions for the sake of the people and saving this humanitarian crisis. now, what do you not pull up a problem to solve the 19 revolution legitimate revolution asking for satellite, using their country and prosperity and welfare as it should be to a civil war between 2 very strong parties,

which is the army and another foreign military forces. that's being supported to stop this support and just stop sorta like we have to sort. i'm great, i'm sorry, i'm sorry to interrupt you again. it's just, we only have a couple of minutes left. i do need to get back to adobe and ask one last question . of value egypt has historically have close ties with the sudanese army um from your vantage point, does that make this task as far as pushing for piece easier for egypt or more difficult? it would be easy, but i think it just in the way it has stated smartly so far they've when they've kept quiet. they've kept on the sidelines and i think they waited for others to do their part. and the failures of the other side has allowed egypt to step up and say ok, let's do this and we can do it this way and having read what president cc said that they, they,

but the summit is to do no 5 seems to be the most concrete steps taken to somehow bring an end or like a low, the 3 months face to say sion of conflict. it's a good idea, the safe passage of humanitarian aid, so on so forth. so i hope, i mean, i do hope safe gyptian initiative works. but any the day if all the parties concerned or, or parties who are, have a stake in this issue, don't pay their part. it's futile. it's just absolutely useless because and, and that goes to not just the neighboring countries, but it also goes to regional powers and international affairs as well. all right, well, we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guests, sorry kira georgia computer and the optimal 9. and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website alger 0 dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ag inside story. you could also during the conversation on twitter

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the bold and i'm told stories from age and the pacific on out just era. the a celebrating bus deal day in from tens of thousands of police a deployed nationwide because of hyper tension, the colors to hold on to the watching of this. they were like my headquarters here in the hall coming up in the next 30 minutes allegations of atrocities against civilians in sit on the international criminal court investigating suspected war crimes.