and i'm charles dogs going to raise her behind the sides. dramatized pod costs from i'll just here to invest hayes and re here from some of history's bugs notable women, unconventional and extraordinary office. i am 40 that kind of a communist revolution of everyone in china, new my state. you've heard all of them are, it's time you have from these and 6 of hindsight is out now. subscribe. wherever you listen to comcast has global temperatures break. records for us in china is kind of invoice meets engaging, but political disputes of stop talks between the wells, talk to polluters. so can we find common ground and will develop patients helpful, valuable ones adapts to climate change? this is inside story. the

probably welcome to the program i made for instead of going to the us in china have reached us at store talks on climate change. just as some of the world swells has in record breaking sheets, as others suffer catastrophic flooding. the need for urgent action as long known. but what isn't, is who will take responsibility for the damage and for healing the environment. developing nations, say the developed world does have free reign to use fossil fuels and pollute for much of the time since the industrial revolution for a nation. say that being asked to pay for the impact when richard countries a more to blame. we'll be discussing these arguments on more than just a few moments with all guests. but 1st katrina, you reports not for badging on the us. china meeting. it's john terry is visiting china is a country process, but it's most of the way during the school days to meet with climate and voice in

china, shit, gen 4 for a series of tools and they discuss reducing emissions, particularly me things and cutting deforestation. told us that it's imperative that the biggest solution is in mrs. of greenhouse gases, as well as the fact that both countries are currently evicted. china has pledged to reduce its colton thompson, but not until 2026. and it has, in recent years, celebration approvals for related projects. washington has criticized aging for employment for quote and says china should pay into global funds to help poor countries of white global warming. aging says it's supposed to fund for wealthy nation, such as the united states, to pay full time at the latest damages. it does not want to pay entities fund itself because it counts china as a developing countries. now us trying x one is due to a range of political economic disagreements. the states that both sides must

satisfy these differences in order to address the climate prices for inside story, katrina, you which on carry a set the under no circumstances with the u. s. pay climate, reparations to developing countries affected by climate, relates and disasters of a southern powers. last month, wealthy nations did agree a 100000000000 dollar package to help developing nations adapt, but that's well short of what the u. n says is needed. so you impact report last year concluded the developing countries need to spend around one trillion dollars a year within the next 2 years. and that didn't include china. the report says for the investment of $2.00 trillion dollars will be needed every year from 2030 to help countries and the developing will cope with climate change. it also why don't use the rich countries have severely impacted developing ones with high levels of emissions and should pick up off the cost. the rest should come from domestic

sources in developing countries to help prepare the environment and limits damage. so let's bring it all a guests from london with joined by sally move hook, who is director of the international center for climate change and development research organization based in bangladesh from dot com. would you mind if i own a case of executive director of green piece africa and also in london is as i bremond the executive director of war on once and then to pull the teachers which pump us with social movements in the global south. a world welcome to you or somebody move. let's start with you. as you heard, the john kerry said that as a know circumstances with the us pay reparations to developing nations affected by climate change should be us of the developed nations be forced to do so. but if so, by who well, 1st of all my message for mr. terry,

instead he should worry about his own citizens in texas and las vegas and then nevada for now suffering from extreme heat impact under the heat of that the united states of america is suffering from. and then in vermont from flooding that is taking place. these are all, in fact of human induced climate change causing losses and damages to the citizens of the united states and the bill. and they are paying for themselves right now. the bill is going to be in the billions and possibly even in the trillions to the united states of america to his own citizens. so he needs to be worrying about what he's going to do to protect them. and only off to that figure out what he can do to help the rest of the world, which under the united nations frame of the convention and the agreement we've made and cop 27 and try remote check. they have agreed to do. they are not paying reparations, they're paying solidarity funds, and all countries have agreed to put money into that fund solely the bangladesh of

course, well used to dealing with it, the effects, the impacts of climate change already with, with, as you say, the climate in the us becoming more erratic with, with heat waves, a more destructive tornadoes, the flooding you mentioned wildfire as, uh, with that impacting more and more people. do you think that the citizens of the us will becoming more mindful of the impact of climate change? now i will demand more from the government a well, that's certainly been affecting to the, to what extent they realize that it's human induced by mate change remains to be seen. because the culture of fuel industry in the us has done a very, very good job at keeping its own citizens ignorant of what the climate change impacts are. but increasingly they are realizing it and particularly young people in the us, certainly are far more aware of the impact of the human induced stomach change and

the fact that they are suffering because of global temperature rise of will be well over one point. one degree that has already occurred and we're headed to 1.5 in the next few years. so these are going to get less and no country is prepared, including rich countries like the united states of america. and everybody's going to have to be better prepared, dealing with those impacts and the climate change are going, we call it add up direction. adapting to them. you mentioned bangladesh by country is one of the most valuable countries to the impacts of climate change and has been adapting to those impacts. so we are quite well prepared. we're still going to be impacted. they're going to cause a lot of harm. but by being better prepared, we can minimize what we call the losses and damages from climate change being unprepared is going to maximize losses and damages from climate change. and the us is in that situation, they are unprepared and therefore suffering a lot more fully. how closely will african nations be following these discussions

and badging as well? you know, during this i think is africa. we strongly support the loss and damage fund, which a we know was agreed upon with all of the international stakeholders at cop $27.00 in charming shack. and so, um, just to adds to what my previous, as i said, we actually do. i understand that terry has clarified that he did not mean that they wouldn't say that the us wouldn't pay into the loss. and then each finally, but rather that they won't be at a meeting to the liability which we disagree. we. we think everybody who's coordinating should be held accountable and should definitely be held liable for the damages causing into the global environmental space. so why don't we support the demands of, say, our continents, our applicant, governments, for adults and damage for payments and other petition and mitigation. finance,

we also are demanding that our own applicant, governments and businesses who are polluting, who are exploiting to lead in adopting the right policies and practices. indeed, by example. so i, greenpeace africa. the african countries needs not to try to follow the destructive pathways of development that the global nor countries date. but rather we are asking that the past, the based on way from extract division, which is clearly money, started itself as a resource course across the global sold. and as the claimant crisis that affects the entire human species. so this is what we are working towards, and we hope that will be into by at the club $29.00 there. and voice are our concerns as to what extent is it hypocritical, if john kerry, to be go into china for tools when the us itself continues to expand its own fossil

fuel industries, most deeply immoral as i read just. and we have to remember, you know, even the way climate reparations is not simply by paying compensation for the dummies. the comedy with peg, it's also by doing normal hom repair in the home that you have caused in the us is responsible to buy for bye to quote trouble. he started commissions, europe, about 22 percent on the us is still planning. one of the biggest fossil fuel expansions globally, along with the european union, australia, and others. so as a case of a do, as i said, not what i do and of course, consumption the all the consumption of that call them. but to the that celine told, to buy the critical when we have to keep well below 1.5 has been calculated in it's, i mean, it's an immense figuring to buy, to 170 truly in the us, liable for about $8.00 to $12.00. you know that what some would call comp and colonialism. so you know,

the scale of the problem. what is being offered by particularly rich contingent with the most responsible. it's just a drop in the ocean. we have the un saying the dictation would need between 300000000000 by 20 a year by 20. thank you to a by 500 b 1000000000 a year by 2050. and we've got to remember that at the moment, you know, the, the promise of even a 100000000000 has not be bet. uh, that was promised back in 2007 in the us currently office to buy a 1000000000 to the green climate fund. unless put that into perspective of this in the same time, the us just proving by 877000000000 for its military spending. so i think the reality between, you know, what is the need, what is a crisis? and we only need to isolate said, take a step back. the world is bottling. we see temperatures, breach in 50 degrees, in many, many countries. but the key differences between the rich countries on the poor countries which countries feel that they've got the capacity and the resources to

be able to address these crisis was cole porter countries. i'm because they're not just dealing with the climate crises, they're dealing with a crisis of poverty, new quality distill, recovering from the colby pandemic. and now we're close face a cost of living crises so much so that they are paying more in depth of $5.00 times more in depth than they are spending on climate. so they've chopped into a global economic system and on fed tax trade that lots we ship by the us of which country. so it's not simply about that the us not putting up money. it's actually locking portal countries in 12 pathway which makes it on a them unable to be able to develop clearly what we really need at this moment is a framework solidarity and cooperation. technology being shared finance be given so people could develop clearly that's why we use war, i'm on call for global, great new deal together with many movements across the global side. that as i said, who's, who's gonna pay for it?

at kenny as president william bro through as code for this type of spending of a global green bank to assist developing nations as they try to mitigate the effects of climate change without exacerbating that already on step unsustainable levels of, of that is, is that a good idea, or is that about something that, that will bank i'm the only of f should be doing, for instance. well, the problem is many of these international institutions, such as i am after the will bank. they told me to, to buy rich country interested in, in fact, that they have been over warmly responsible for the fuel. the much of the development pathways. they're locked in, developing countries into economic systems. would say you have to open your economy, you call build resilience in your economy, you have to privatize everything. it's just a misguided didn't have failed approach. i think well, many developing country lead to send these, not just the president of can you related from problem instead of a barbados,

but the brazilian president lula, the talking device, we need to really fix the global economy to really small phaedra a more equitable. and that it puts climate and tackling public to, to send to now, there are lots of different approaches that can be done. we could actually text the corporations were responsible for this, that meet much better. we could fix our trade system. we could products the wealthy 1000000000 has, who has been only the ones who have benefit to the most from these forms of crises and exploitation. that wealth is, is growing exponentially, was the majority of the world see that, that, that, that every day in consulting. so there are many, many solutions. what we like is political will, and the problem we have is as drunk. carrie was saying to the us senate and we have the both a, not just in the united states, but cost europe, political leaders who are looking at the domestic circumstances and basically saying we are no longer able to provide the solidarity, the cooperation. ok,

our fashion, and this isn't about justice, it's fundamentally about justice. if you burn down somebody's home, you have to be the one that paid to be a to for it to be fixed. and that's what which countries don't want to do. and that's a real question about liability that the us wants to avoid sleep. oh i, i say, you know, to go hit that is that if you agree with, with, with what sort of saying indeed i do. and let me just take it to a bit further in terms of the argument. now climate change is a global problem and we have unfortunately just in the last few days, in the 1st week of july, on the 3rd of july we had the hottest temperature the world has ever seen. and then a day later on the 4th of july, that record got broken. and then 2 days later on the 6th of july, the record got broken again. so we have very clearly crossed into the threshold of losses in damages from the impacts of human and induced climate change. and it's

a global problem that everybody in the world, every country in the world is going to have to face. and unfortunately, both the comic systems typically have at the global level as well as the security system says that's i've mentioned the united states military that absorbs enormous amounts of funds, is actually not at all prepared to deal with the payment problem, which is going to be the number one security problem going forward. indeed, in fact the u, the u. s. military is probably one of the biggest polluters because of the emissions of greenhouse gas is associated with its activity. so not as not only is it not fit for purpose for the new security regime that the global whole world is going to have to face. this is not the country of this country. this is the world against splendid change. and we are not ready for it, and we need to change the way we do things. so. so when i'm drunk, terry won't engaging that the us in china are running out of time to avoid

a hiring future is what he said. to what extent is it already too, too late for that that we've passed the tipping point here? the future is now about mitigating the effects. and as i can see you shaking your head or come back to you in just a minute but, but just quickly, so i single because i want to bring you only back into the discussion is sure. so we, we have to work 2 times the immediate emergency crisis time scale is dealing with the impacts of climate change that are happening all over the world, but primarily are poor people living in full countries. but in the longer time we need to be presenting the global, catastrophic temperature increases for which we are headed, if we don't take actions on mitigation. so we're going to have to, to come and walk at the same time a sup just just very quickly. yeah, absolutely. we have to change the bulk of the set of looks. it's never too late because what we talking about is the scale of the impacts. we know that we have to

limit the temperature well below 1.5 degrees, and that's not target. that's already recognizing that the global warming and increased temperature is the old ready, deadly for many people. and it's devastating people's lives and livelihoods. it gets expedited solely was was and it becomes harder and harder to fix. so every degree that we share both is millions of lives that we saved and, and, and preventive from being facing this kind of kind of comment about. and so it's never too late. the question really is now, is which countries need to come down and mission valley, which doesn't mean that they should be at 0, call them by 2030 at the, at the least. so that part of the country, they've got a little bit more time to be able to cope that relations. we need to be at 0 compet by 2050. and we need the finance of technology. it's fundamentally if you want porter countries to be able to move away from the data consumption development pathways, you've got to be able to support them. if you don't, you're going to lock half the world into competition inequality. and that's simply

not acceptable. only for years develop nations of one developing nations against the use of fossil fuels. they've routinely denied them loans for oil and gas projects. for instance, now we've got germany reopening coal fired power stations. european nations grunting energy consumption subsidies. i'm calling on our for conditions to ramp up the production of, of, of natural gas for export. how is this, these, these opponents, but how these apparent double stand that's being viewed, that in africa, it's viewed very negatively. my predecessor calls of justice. it's all about the climate justice. you know, i've seen this africa. what we're trying to do now is to develop global icon. it contains, there's one of them which is called stop turning and start pain, or mid polluters pay, which is really about climate justice. you know this, this campaign is, is targeting, holding the extremities,

comfortable and suffering them in their trucks. we need people, big producers to pay for the damaged or closing to the world. so in south africa, for example, we have confronted polluters such as s. com and show on their polluting business model, which we continues to drive a shift in mindset from the fossil fuel independence to a more of a renewable energy. so we are holding polluters comfortable for oil spills. like the worst environmental disaster, as you've seen in martians in july 3 years ago. this is one of the things that we are pushing back in africa. we can paint those top oil and gas development in countries like the d r c. like in coming in nigeria, in many of the applicant countries. so we're all about pushing back. we're all about stopping this for recurs and these governments draining and start paying.

and if we want to really build a clinic justice movement across the globe, we need to to now start to really hold. people are comfortable with something that we are be going into. the green is africa and we're going to push it across the comfortable. but really when he took about that this climate justice movement submitted, who needs to take the lead here, that this can't be down to the grass roots organizations kind of, i mean, this needs, this needs someone or some thing to take the lead here and burn the politicians heads together on this issue. yes, i mean um president will do. it says it's very well. he said clement action is not a global nor issue our global some issue. it's our collective trends and it effects on a bus which is true. so we needs to come together to find common global solutions. and this is why i appreciate the african governments now taking that going to be now trying to have the political will together as the african union. they are now

organizing something called the african clements summits. just this to be, this is the 1st time they think some of them and all of them are coming together to champion climate change to have a road map for climate change. and what's the expectation of escalating claimant crises, in terms of the frequency? and it just depends just actually is required for us to meet to gauges challenges. so it's, it's taken, as you rightly said, somebody needs to take decisions. somebody needs to be bold and then be sure somebody needs to be comfortable if governments are starting to really puts their heads together and stick does one and say, this is serious, we need to hold our resources. we need to put our technical know how we need to put all of our resources in order to mitigate some of these challenges for our people, for the grow or getting global entity as well that we are then we would have solutions to this claimant. thing i was selling them and as of both noting

those come to so you know, 1st you were in agreement. the absolutely, i think, you know, what that will be said is that we need to be changing the mindset from leaders. just thinking about their own country, which is what john barry was reflecting when he responded to as a senator in the senate, to thinking about being citizens the planet to, and all of us being in the same planet. it's chip facing a common problem, a common enemy, if you like, that is attacking the entire planet. and alita is unfortunately simply have not been able to shift the paradigm in which they think they just think about national interest in very short term terms. and those are not going to help us in the long run. okay, as i said, i mean to what extent is this? is this wishful thinking though about, about this, this global leadership, and that there are too many vested interest. c,

a people who politically don't c i t i to agree on anything. a look what we, we have at global freight. but to see we have a global tracy, we have the un convention on climate change. we have the climate at the called, the climate, somebody's but realities, you know, if you all are in the us and go pick up the transmission stays by 14 tons per individual. i'm not 7 times india's and the majority of people in, in the continent of africa got a negligible footprint. it's very difficult for developing countries to say, look, which mode you want us to do with the results isn't supported cost. the well currently is locked into public, denied even access to electricity, including cooking. people need those things. the real question is, until the united states, so your opinion that you can always come to the table and recognize that they have a responsibility. they've caused the most damage,

they have to cut their own and missions. you have to stop this expansion of bills. but they also have to recognize that the wells that they've taken from the global side and continued to take from the global side. look, it's calculated since 1960 to this present moment. that costs 252 trillion in wellcare has been taken out of the global side to the world. basically, developing countries need support countries. i've got the capacity, i've got the wealth to be able to do it. so it needs a collective asset, but it's meant to come to the main block here. right. and so we did it just one day, you put you on carry at the moment in paging talking to china, another of the world's biggest polluters in terms of, of ship population size. but when at expanding economy, where does india fit into this picture? i strong carries in beijing talking to them about climate, as it should only be in new delhi. absolutely, i think, you know, china in the us that certainly the 2 countries as country does that matter with

respect to the emissions of greenhouse gases. china have then overtaking the us. the recent is as the biggest emitter, but india is, is very far behind. it needs to be dropped into the, the picture. there's going to be a, somebody, some of the g 20 countries, very so on the host and by india where hopefully they will take this issue on board and all the g 20, the, the biggest, the economies of them in the world. when take this extra forward and deal with it, the good news is that both in china and india, they are realizing that they have more to gain by transitioning away from fossil fuels into cleaner energy. because they are both. while when i moved to the impacts of climate change, in fact, china is extremely vulnerable. they're having heat waves right now as we speak. okay, really, we're almost out of time. um, one final thoughts from you. i, i, you tool. hopefully it is already a room for optimism here, but the worst effect of climate change can still be avoided. or do you think that

we've actually passed the tipping point that all of this is too little too late? it's now about mitigating that mitigation. no, i'm hopeful, i think a country is such as african countries right now. oh, they're realizing that although they're municipal contributors to global emissions, but within just several decades in come them with positive changes and population growth and decline of poverty. solving forecasts are actually saying that emissions from the continental and much those of india today. so imagine if that happens they, they realizing that we need to have resources in place, we need to invest in this. so it's a global issue. it affects all of us. so i'm, i'm now very helpful to see that the africans are coming together as african union to address the climate change to the class with the clement summit. so i'm very hopeful, it's never too late. we can do more. thank you so much to to all of us spring break to talk to you today samuel, the sleep mode, how many k to and i said that ramen and as always, thank you for watching,

doesn't as you can see the program, i get it any time i go into the websites warehouses here. i don't com for further discussion, join us about facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and of course you can see. busy this conversation on twitter handle at a j inside story from me, adrian said again and the same here. and so we'll see you again, bye for now the, the the, every 5 thing. we don't simply focus on the product except the conflicts. it's the

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