a man to assist the cloud and it stops to write the territorial social and ethnic divisions. friends has recently seen nationwide protests after the shooting of a teenager in paris number of to do a world goes to some of the cities, most disadvantaged communities. and explorers complex questions, a french identity, paris, a divided city. and i'll just tell them as you asked me, face to face as i've got to send them to us. wonderful worlds was humanitarian crises. scam funds of a west remains frozen. while refreshing of women and rights abuses continue. will the tools spring ask on some hope. this is inside story the

how they're welcome to the program on adrian finnegan, high level discussions between telephone leaders and us officials that taking place here in bo ha, it's the 1st time. but the 2 sides have met directly since a group we took control enough chemist on 2 years ago with nato forces withdrew. after 20 years of conflict. all the business happened behind closed doors and little as being said by either side. apart from brief statements published online, spokesman for the after on foreign affairs ministry posted on social media, said the delegation is discussed, confidence, building, practical steps towards removing blacklist and lifting sanctions. they also spoke about the freezing of f guns, central bank reserves, economic stability, capturing narcotics and human rights. he added the both the us and the tunnel and

government emphasized the continuation of such meetings, understanding and interactions. the us state department for its part is issued to stipend, saying that it would be open to a technical dialogue regarding economic stabilization issues. soon. it's also open to continuing dialogue on counter narcotics, saying it recognize a significant decrease in the cultivation of puppies fox. the us is expressed deep concern about the humanitarian crisis and the need to continue to support 8 organizations and you and bodies delivering assistance as well before he goes, well i guess let's recap how we got here. the telephones switched power enough. kennestone in august 2021. the us it already announced that it was leaving, ending almost 20 years of military action by a native multinational force which invaded after the $911.00 attacks the tunnel bomb inherited a country struggling with bull corruption of the groups. despite early promises not

to return to the oppressive policies imposed in 2001 restrictions on women baton with bands on working and goals. secondary education, the united nation says that around 97 percent of our accounts live in policy 28000000 lead a just to survive this year. most humanitarian organizations have suspended that operations of the us still holds about $7000000000.00 of f can central bank assets, which have been frozen for the past 2 years. we did reach out to the town for a spokesman to join our discussion, but no one was available. so let's bring in our guests from cobble withdrawing by level this at our executive director of the outcome within the skills development center at a board member of the african women's network from oxford to motion on will for of inside afghanistan and the executive director of the think tank afghanistan,

policy lab, and from belfast. michael, simple visiting research, professor at queens, university, belfast, and full of deputy use special representative to afghanistan, a warm welcome to you all my food. but let's start with you if we can. so we've got these talks between the us and the tunnel on the 1st face to face in quite some time. is there anything about that that would give people who continue to suffer in afghanistan? hope the best that comes to circumstances could change. thank you very much. for having me on your show. thanks a lot. you know, this is one of the, uh, it's one of the whole cell type damage done. we are really praying for something is that it wouldn't be, you know, for the benefit to the benefits of the advocate. people, but the whether there's, oh no, it's not, it's not very clear. it's been quite some time the united states. i know, since they had to talk with the tunnel. so it was kind of overdue and they told

a bunch really were the only country in the world that they would like to have a talk with is the united states for, for, for some of these. and the rest of the world really does not matter. so much we've been talking about, but with us they love to talk. so this couldn't be pretty, you know, interesting and may be good into the benefits of the ton of on for sure. whether it's going to be good for the benefit of the people or not, but to get this done, that's an entirely separate different question. because we really don't know what is actually going on behind the scenes between united states and the target. there is something going on which has very different from what is going on between talking about and the rest of the work and the people off campus. so as long as that is not clear to us, it's a bit hard for us to really know what this is all about. is the going to be there is going to be any games or is not because the tone of them did not even mention

that they talked about the woman or the woman's rights or, or, or the human select. much kind of them did not even mention. and that was not really interesting for them. i told them the amount of time what, what do you mean when you, when you say that there's something entirely different going on between that the kind of out of the people of i've kind of saw it on the face to which the telephone presents to the world oh yeah, there is a, there is definitely a p like that because you know, the toilet bone actually a war, a war from the, from the, from the world. and mainly from, from the, the, what is the big house that they want me to walk from as the united states out for the, for them that is extremely important. and so far they haven't been acknowledged by the, by the ones that they want the war from, you know, to say that, okay, you know, you want this one and they never tried to talk about, or whatever, only thing that they have a product is always a little as far as they are concerned,

make it to be either towards the things that they'll do because they are doing it. it's not that this is, you know, something that there are stories being told about. know the woman i've got a strong did really or anybody back. thanks. so so, so this is, this is what this actually going on that we know the rest of the world. that's not really no. because no matter how much the world was smarter to talk to them, be your talks to them. the, you know, other countries of the world talks to them and, and all of the who might have teddy and help us that all of the un, the you, nama, all of that. for the toner mom, the most important is that they really would like to sit down and talk to me. so that means that there's something going on. then piece to really understand what on earth is that? and they really would like to talk about. alright, that's my my to do more to see us really have any leverage over the telephone of these talks go to achieve anything. do you think will, will they ultimately lead to persuading the telephone to reverse policies?

what of making life so intolerable for people in the country is a very good question. um, um i agree its uh we're not sure with my research here that we're not, i'm not certain how does adults with how often people but what is a clear is that the us really doesn't have a lot of leverage here. deliberately it had a, it has already used around the assumption, so it has already imposed sanctions on a kind of solemn to tell them a leadership committee doesn't have a lot of leverage at the moment on the coal tons of on leadership income. the others are making decisions. but again, let me go back. what is this administration the us, the kind of us have ministrations thinking. what do we know is buying that has been very present by the have been day care about his thinking on that kind of stone and asking people he has clearly said, summed it up as another country,

is people doesn't have it seems to have a aspiration. it's divided as tribal definitely doesn't really seem that it's a priority for a us and us foreign policy are now what it has focused. so what, what, what are the key us interest here? and what of, what is us focusing on 1st, the whole account of terrorism. it has focused on counterterrorism and trying to limit international terrorism, oppression, insight f, one a, some that threatens his interest around around. well, the 2nd focus has been around the creation of the remaining atkins who have worked with with the us, especially in light of the upcoming presidential election. and the fact that the republicans are trying to portray by then administration's effort towards the recreation in august 2021 as missy um, and incompetent. and i guess the most important point here is the hostages. the, the column on the us on the top of on uh,

having captivity. we know that the fosters diplomacy is a, is a significant factor in washington dc. we know they didn't take historically and has taken a lot of attention and lot of buttons with the highest level from administration and that has chipped uh the perception of confidence of an administration. so i think the timing around the kind of talk to me sounds very much around the fact uh those factors that i mentioned in particular the hosted diplomacy and, and focusing on the technical issues and economics w i. zation essentially means to me, to, in kind of upset the top of all, this is the thought about others, but us to contribute to the right people and the thought about it at the right. okay. you know, clearly they're not a i mean the, the seems to be this perception that by engaging with pragmatist i get no mother.

it's pragmatist. i don't believe there is such a thing as an older, intolerable. i think they are all, it's a fundamental, this group on a clear mission to, to fund them into the transform ask, and society and polity. and beyond that cornerstone but the, the pragmatists, the people, i can look that key on others and cobbled the us have been engaging with them for, for the past 4 years of doing the hot dogs and the last 2 years. none of those conversations back channel contacts have produced result, canada, and i'm talking to the right people. and let me mention the talking about are we have that the us does not consider. i've called us on the pay of a keep by other things and then they understand that. and i think they're trying also to, to gain maximum leverage from what they have the hostages. that it keeps the hosted that the entire house can population as they have kept hostage

and the slowing them, they by creation process and more importantly, putting half of the population essentially in, in, in prison and pursuing agenda appetite, policy and a phone. so okay, that's bringing michael. michael, what did you make of the talks is, is now the right time to be talking to the top down to the extent just the us. since. yeah, it's a is regarding the talking about is it, is it perhaps talking more with its own interest in mind than those of the african people? but i think the, the us is quite a pair of explicit policies and just to talk about and take over home, being prepared to engage in dialogue with the top of onto achieve us interests. and we've got really has been constant over the past 2 years. if there have been periods when there would be gaps and thought they here. um oh not is if there have been gaps in that,

it has been because the taliban has been gauged and actions which are being just so have. so it's so difficult for an international exercise to stomach that has become politically impossible for the us to continue the engagement. so they go through pauses. obviously if you have when to talk about how have bond girl, secondary education bound women working for 8 agencies. oh feel that was going to be a gap in the us as us has returned to the table. but i think that t movers opposite and p right with extremely limited objectives there and like, you know, get people out to the top on jails. i don't think that the, the top or bottom how, how become past masters. exploiting vehicle process t around talks like this to pretend that they are able to achieve much more than it's even on the table. so for example, the telephone statement saying that they've, you raise the issues of your blacklists and sanctions. well,

maybe they've mentioned, but it's up to the inconceivable that they can make progress on that with the current state of one year of affairs, what the telephone we're doing the that we know that for the past 2 years, the tell about have hoped to win international recognition, well, it's not just as you know, the us who are looking at how to talk because the, the top or bottom we have the broader international community with some fear now helped by us special coordinator help in addressing this. and frankly, are international recognition is just not on the agenda now the tell about are just so, so far away from achieving that because they consistently have said, yeah, we'll talk, i will never compromise. michael, it is, is the kind of on playing with the, the us on the other. why the international community out the other place and see it when they sit down for tools to think of, or here's some of the feedback we got from the top of and to go through acres in terms of their lessons learned in dealing with the us on the guns in the,

in negotiations was our approach to go see asians, we stay talk to mom. do we wait for the other side to conceit about their approach? you call that sincere like as far as they're concerned, this work so far, but i think that they yeah best they will be able to have a limited to transactional relationship to know progress on big issues like oh, it's a national recognition or removing sanctions or it's our essentially bringing, bringing i promised on onto the telephone box into the international folds. now remember, one thing which neither side has mentioned of this, because frankly, i mean that's all about how more or less rule it out is you know, the issue over return to an inclusive political system of the accountable government inside off on his job. now successive un security resident security council, resolutions of cold for that broadly, people seem to think if you want an end to conflict and off on the starting, you're going to have to have a return to an increase of political system the top of on basically overall being, you know, going through the adults to get the us forces out of the country,

promising that they would move towards out for the past 2 years, have essentially ruled it out for us most that claimed. because you know, we have that one or 2 touch eggs and those backs and you're in a and i'll go from and of course project tell about those big titles on, in our government. we have an inclusive administration. forgetting about women and essentially not having any representative members. also the she and the ethnic communities. and i found the stuff, the focus on the agenda, where we talked about the terrible humanitarian situation in afghanistan, a sanctions making things worse for the people of afghanistan use, do, talked about the terrible toll that that's been taken on on women and girls that are reports of a dramatic increase in the rates of suicide among african women and, and goes exact numbers are difficult to come by a post because the band suppresses reporting of, of such depths. but to what extent are a western sanctions making the stress,

the women and girls, women and girls in particular, a suffering even worse is morally now the right time to stop talking about the lifting of sanctions and providing for the economic aids to have kind of stuff well, you know what, the sanctions, taylor and the effect the assumptions of the people understanding, especially on this woman as an activity, you know, and believable. and the reason is that because you know the woman situation and not scan it's done right now, can become so good at this house that they are in all of the religion and everything else is completely out of the picture. it's nothing to do anything. the women are being sold used as a, as a, as a, as a political weapon. so they are, they are your playing with your playing any time when there is a sanction or something that the toner above. don't like one of the front of taking it out on the woman. oh, yes. and in this way, the lose as a really, the, the, the,

you got the people talk to understand the women, the scanner started the poor country. and the in detroit, the to, they are the ones that they are actually the most in a, whether the, the, the, the have posted of the word continues. it doesn't continue. it depends on how much it was really would like to have coach gattis somewhere. now, you know, we can look, you know, the old guy. maybe i bought a fucked on westwood die because so far the only thing that can go we don't have enough kind of stuff. we don't have a whole lot cove, you know, a food a commodities in the country. we have, we have a not. the only thing is that people don't have any money to buy it. and that, that, that's, that's difficult. but at that, i'm sure there's going to be a time when we won't have that item. then we're done with that. so this whole thing is becoming extremely political. and now you also mentioned something about these people being deep, you know, the hostages. what last digits was they can pull off that, you know, why is,

why is this coming up? this is what i'm saying, that there's so much going on that the people don't have gums from a weight of it. it's just the work most probably do you wish is aware of and maybe maybe the, you know, the great but, and that's about it. not everybody else knows. so what is this hostage which, which, which hostage, who is the house and, and, and, and how many are in, in, in the, how come this became so important after 2 years? well, this is going on. so these are the things that the people to put down to spend on august, would it be not aware? okay, so that's why we do believe that the up to 2 levels of, of light is going go once i just want to kind of for light and the other side, there's another kind of the other kind of, what do i is between the point of um, and the in the us government, them doing, doing whatever it is, the other side is the line between us talking about and the people the absolutely have no people come back to just about, but i just wanna get, i wanna get michael's opinion on, on what probable was saying that

a yes eh, eh, it to me it's very interesting though. don't say you have, i do, but has brought up again the issue all of a paucity, i'd like to touch on 2 of these issues. first one, the on the issue of continuation of assistance. i think it's remarkable, given the sheer how we have given that the telephone company defied the international community identified to define the culture we government to, to insist on taking power by force rather than proceeding with a political agreement which was available to them in culture, given that the very difficult circumstances in which they came to power. i think it is remarkable that she monitoring the assistance provided by the international community has continued after level the task perfectly. the upcoming economy is around between $12.00 and $15000000000.00 per year. are probably $3000000000.00 are being provided to

a promised on an international she monitoring assistance still, despite the bob blot, they despite all the difficult relations between the telephone and the rest of the world between a quarter on the 5th of constance, national income comes from international issue monitoring assistance. currently that is out of jeopardy, not because of function stage of international actors to find ways wrong. the functions to allow the continuation of got to monitor and assistance, tell the outcome. people not to help the to talk about administration. but the, the telephone administration has consistently being interfering in the process of delivering assistance, which i'm sure the team for my boobies well aware of because she's in the very difficult business of trying to, to wrong and use in the current circumstances are basically trying to takeover organizations to insist that on the telephone, approved, registered and, and controlled organizations are able to work into your and sub contracting. and

they, the success of the levels of interference are we to jeopardize in the continuation of the assistance process. the very act of binding women from working in our assistance organizations and even into un with something which jeopardize to the delivery if you monitor and assistance. so i would say actually it's whether they tell about or prepared to show some respect for international loans. in dealing with our own people with a lot of agencies will determine whether it is possible to continue to the written assistance. all the, all the issue of the secret diplomacy on hosted you'll have a lot of that time number of which he raises this because up to the source and that they asked on population is called the site to this. but i think we must make a clear distinction between the, the role of the, the western countries who are trying to recover their citizens who are being held hostage by the top of the role of the tal about the, you know, as t more mentioned earlier on in the us, in the, in the u. k, and n b u,

the government's how the obligation to their own citizens when citizens are held hostage abroad. the government basically have to do everything they come to secure the release and bring them home. the telephone has held a series of people who have been out for your aid, aid workers, private citizens, all sorts of people, while shopping upfront has done some people. i would you ever strongly advise them not to being upfront and honest to god extremely good business to be there. but the tal about seeing fit to hold them. there is a, is this either no due process or fiction of due process on the top is quite explicitly trying to extricate concessions from the, from those governments decision hostage diplomacy off this paula bomb or not the only administration around the world which oh, which engages in this but i would say no, no responsible government ever ever does it. it's got nothing to do with the

outcome people whatsoever. it is the tal about trying to, to find leverage. i'm both international players and i extract things like guarantees of non cooperation with vision or they have kind of assistance a team or doesn't, has a lot for you that to, to come back on if, if you wish to. and i also want to know where you stand on, on the issue of sanctions. a they are they useful a they should is now the time to lift the, the functions are terrible. um and uh it does impact on many people. and historically, sanctions have not necessarily been the most useful tools, but having said that, i let me call what michael said that that the suffering of guns is not the result of simply the sanctions. but the policy is that the top to

bottom episode over the last 2 years, repression and brutality of the policies towards a ask and women, and some of other, some other policies that they have taken. it has made it impossible for international community, including us not to show to is domestic constituency that is taking a section and functions. often the easiest steps to take. having said that, again, it's important to note that the, the us ascension has produced a number exemptions and those of those are and around a humanitarian at a delivery. so, and as you maintain a delivery is english and from, from including and jewels and other organizations that are operating up on an exam from those. so the assumption, and that is why the, the, the kind of international and responses is working enough on this. so let me code that it's important that we eliminate alleviate the suffering of asking people. and

i do believe that the international a must continue in a, in a font of some sort of can people and must be a deal of a, given a light of that kind of crisis. the 2 thirds of hopkins population are in need of humanitarian assistance. but having said that, we should not continue with the policy of appeasement. it hasn't worked a payment towards the top of on $7.00 various shrewd and smart. and when it comes to me goes, jason, as mike law pointed out, and finally the suffering of asking women in particular is the result of the fact that this is a fundamental, this organization. it's, it's a movement that is built on fundamental mission to come. clearly transform atkins, society and politics comes on and beyond and they are on a glove given mission to transform that society. look at the latest you and report that was prepared for him. a security council. it clearly highlights the worsening

of, of the, the, the, the presence of a presence, an expansion of the various international test organizations, including have quite enough funds on and this entity is affecting taking bump where i stand. it's just a matter of time to for the telephone, produces another 911 and different parts of the world. and they are at the clinton are students that are going to take a look at 16 focus on expanding, rapidly buckled. i have a feeling we were going to be getting that the, the last word here, but in the end, a few minutes remaining. but picking up from what my, what team, all of us was saying that's about the worst thing. humanitarian crisis enough to understand that the, the, the rights of women and goals ignored the women continuing to suffer. refreshing. and that, of course, worsens and already extreme. the, or the extreme poverty enough. going to start with a dire economic situation in the country because 50 percent of the,

of the population con, con, add anything economically. what should the us of the international community be doing right now other than what appears to be ringing the hands of afghanistan and the telephone? what's the solution? yeah, you're absolutely right. that's all i've really actually seen is when getting their hands. and i'm really, i'm really a type of, you know, uh, like, like, like a decisions were made. the decisions would take him, he'll put them to actions and the results of it is one disaster after another, after another up during that, sorry to interrupt you. but we are out of time, i really appreciate you all being on the program today. my prove a slash t motion on and michael simple. as always, thank you for watching. you can see the program again at any time by going to the website. i'll just 0 dot com for further discussion. joining us with our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash h a inside story out. of course, you can join the conversation on twitter, handle that

a j inside story from me. adrian. instead of going on the team here and so we'll see you again, bye for now. the the, where is the western agenda heading? that's the g 7. really even matter anybody who's more electable, joe biden, or donald trump, our journalistic in the media undermining our society. can americans cross their supreme court is not corrupt. the quizzical look at us politics, often line for us a call was of insight to people around the world business been going on for

a number of our seniors report to an international perspective to try to explain to global audience how this could impact the lives this is an important part of the world and how to do this very good the bringing the news to the world from here. the investigating the use and abuse of power across the globe on al jazeera, the challenges there with me. so robin and doug, how reminded me of all the top new stories the full me us present? donald trump has been indicted for his the terms over time. the results of the 2020 presidential election. it's trumps. the criminal indictment, the shift, the latest charges include conspiracy to defraud the united states. government and conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. he's been summoned to appear before

a federal judge on thursday. the attack on our nation's capital. on january 6th, 2021.