1000000 years ago, it's believe to have been around 20 meters long and weighed up to 340 metric tons. that is bigger than a blue. well, and any of the largest dinosaurs be, i mean formulated model unless it lifted the bottom of the sea and the coastal zone and it stayed in that dips. it was a half the animal, each of its bones has become very dense and a gruel. lots compared to its relatives of that age. there are 12 foot to break faint ribs and a pelvis, but we don't have to scold yet. so the name of the federal again, elizabeth hall with the headlines on i'll just say around. nisha is konita is refusing to balance the international pressure to reinstate the else to president the country months. it's independence day. delegates from the west african regional blog echo was a boot jeff trying to negotiate with the crew latest video. donald trump is due to

appear in court later on thursday to face challenges of conspiring to over to the presidential election 3 years ago. the former us president is quoting, for his case to be moved from washington, from says the system in the capital is biased against him. formalized president mike pens has criticized trump for trying to pressure him to resist the results. pen says, trump should never be president again on that the president trump asked me to put him over the constitution, but i chose the constitution. and i always will. and i, i, i really do believe that the, anyone who puts himself over the constitution should never be president of the united states. and anyone who asked someone else to put themselves over the constitution should never be president of the united states against fighting has resumed between rival palestinian factions and a refugee camp in southern lebanon. 3 people were injured will have a nice and gum batches in the, on, on how we can as

a shaky truce declared on tuesday. and also just 24 hours. the killing of a military commander belonging to the south of movement on saturday, spots of days of running vassals put for us. this has met 13 survivors of clerical sex abuse in portugal. the roman catholic leaders of the scandal have mom the church and that the anguish cries of the victims must be listened to. an investigation found that almost $5000.00 children. portugal was sexually abused by priests and other members of the church. for the full cost of se, typhon that last, the japanese island of okay. now on wednesday is likely to return off to what we can to move towards china, at least to on and as what killed in thousands and just type in kind of flooded rose approved of trees and cut power. on okinawa, the storm is expected to make you 10 on friday. well, those are the headlines on elders era do stay with us. the stream is coming up next . thank you very much for watching

the hi antonio k to down the street and we all thinking about, we think, how does that brain block and how can we make it? what and little bit back to you may already be doing some of the techniques we're going to be talking to you about. this is a picture back here, pretty much sums up the last week of me preparing for the show. i have not intending to do all the heavy lifting by myself. i am bringing on the guests and we

can easily can meet them and they can tell you who they are and what they do. hello, i need jean at dominic. so good to have you on a introduce yourself to as stream audience, sir, i'm any murphy, paul, i'm a writer, a science writer who writes about learning and cognition. and i'm the author of a book called the extended mind, the power of thinking outside the brain and you in spite our entire conversation. thanks for that. hi, gina. great to have you on the stream. tell everybody who you are. i'm what you do . hello. nice to be here. thank you. my name is gina poll. i'm a narrow scientist at new c l. a. and i do research on the function of sleep for learning and memory. great to have you and dominate. welcome to the stream, introduce yourself to our international for us a. my name's dominic packer. i'm a professor of psychology at the high university, which is in bethlehem, pennsylvania. and i'm an expert on group dynamics and how people's identities shape

how they think feel, and pay. so guess i'm going to give you a couple of rapid fire questions, which really helped me to prepare for the show. i know you're gonna know the answers like this. all right, dominant. what is the mind? the mind generally refers to the box. we have the motions, we feel the perceptions we have of the world, how we make sense of things as a key distinction to be made with the rest with regard to the mind such that some of me, those are things we're conscious of. so we are aware of our thoughts or feelings what we, what we believe about something. but a lot of the mind is also non conscious or very rapidly process conclusions we reach without necessarily having realized how exactly we reached it. so that's the mind. gina, what's the brain? the brain is the organ by which the mind thinks and acts and interacts with the world. is the organs through which we sense everything and it is the organ through which we do everything. it is s our brain is our mind.

ok. adding the best metaphor that you have, i've created yourself or you've heard, or you've read about how our brain actually works as well. we tend to think of the brain is like a workforce that we just sort of keeps logging until it gets the job done. but i like to think of the brain as more like an orchestra conductor that's at the heart of everything. it's bringing in resources from here and there and creating, you know, beautiful music. all right, so with that, i guess, as he knows, i know this topic, what would you like to austin about? how do we get more out of outbreak? if you on youtube, you can be part of today's discussion and comment section is right that i'm expecting you're pretty and questions, no pressure the shows thoughts right now. i mean, let's talk festival about how you feel that most of us use that bring us science. why to so you, you write a lot about the way that we think the way that we use as thoughts, the way that we use our brains out of most of us can use as well. to go back to

this question of metaphors. i think many of us think of our brains as like a computer that we just speed information into and then the, the output, you know, it is the result. or we think of it as like a muscle that it's something that we have to keep exercising to, to get stronger. but the reason the metaphor of the orchestra conductor is more helpful is that we actually don't sync with our brains alone. we think with our bodies, with the spaces in which we learn and work with them, the, our interactions with other people with our tools like our, our smartphones and other technological devices. so that really broadens the idea of what thinking is when we acknowledge that all these other resources are part of the thinking process. dominic i see and not, and go ahead. i completely agree. i think the idea that and is exploring in your book especially that. so much of our thinking exist outside of the individual mind or the individual brain involves other people as well as technologies and devices.

this is a super interesting one and research has he's exploring how outsourcing, at least a lot of the thinking that we do affects the conclusions that people reach or the way in which their their minds want. so i'm just thinking, digging into my system, walk around, thinking about how we're thinking that it just happens unless, unless something happens and then we have an injury or we have something that's not quite firing, right? why do you think that is? it's almost like we take out blank. yeah. and if we do take our great brains for granted. and it's only when we do have a head injury or something happens to our physical brain, oregon that we realized so much of who we are so much of our personality and what we know our memories, a consciousness really lies in this few pounds of flesh. but this brain is not disconnected from the world, at least most of the time. we have our sensors,

but it's low end to our brain through our bodies. and that includes our sense of space and nature. i sense of others and our ability to connect and reach out to them. so i think it's a beautiful book and a murphy, paul, it's really well read a well written. it was a lot of fun to read. it was well researched and i take my head off to you. i enjoyed every minute of reading it and that's not usually the case when i'm reading things related to related to my field. i usually don't read books and so this one was really, really a delight. thank you. on a walk, nature writing extensive mind the powers thinking outside the brain. what was the, what was the inspiration? what? what did you think? like i need to write a book about how we need to think outside of the might outside as a by, as well. so i have 2 sons who are a school age and i got very interested in how they learn in the science of learning

. and in my research and reporting on the science of learning, i started to notice a bunch of different seals that were all looking at how these outside the brain resources factor into our thinking. and then i happened to come across a journal article by 2 philosophers. and that proposed this idea of the extended mind, which is the idea that we don't just stick with our brains allowance. we actually extend our thinking process, the c is out into the world with our bodies, with spaces, with other people. and that to me, tied together a lot of the research findings that i was finding so interesting at policy will reset the discover piece of writing. oh, look, i got go ahead, dana, go ahead. i just wanted to say i see annie, that you are talking with your hands, which is part of the recommendations of your book. so yeah, i haven't started adopting that to even though we're seated here, we're not taking a walk which would be even better. so at least we are using our bodies. and what

that does to our brain is it puts it in a mode where we can learn better. actually we can, we learn best through teaching. and then when we're teaching it for actors, we are learning even better. our brain is in this state called the state of state, which is about $5.00 to $10.00 waves per 2nd that occur in our hippa campus, which is our rapid learning structure in our brain associated learning. so when we put things together and when we move, our hipaa campus goes into a feta state, which is really best for learning. so let me show here one of the people who inspired me to write a book. and this gentleman's called peter ryan, a. he's a neuro ethics professor for the university of british columbia and he explains what gina was just explaining that how our brain can then use of the things to help us think back to operate back to pieces please. that's

a much better explanation that i have. so serious i mentioned the following scenario. a few weeks ago, you made an appointment to see the dentist, let's say for next tuesday and tuesday morning you wake up and you realize that out today's the day i can see that that is but you're not for, was it the appointment at 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock. well fortunately, you also noted this the type of disappointment in the diary, either a paper diary or in your fault for example. and you go and check that diary and you find out that the appointment is at 2 o'clock. what you've done is actually a very smart thing for several reasons. first of all, biological memory is unfortunately, the tori is lea unreliable for details like this. on the other hand, the diary is a perfect source of storing and record recalling that kind of information.

but more importantly, what you've done is you've offloaded the cognitive work of remembering onto the diary rather than taxing your biological brain with that same task. and by doing so, we open up space for that biological brain to do what it does best make decisions of abstract starch, creativity, and that is the future. so our extensions cause the app already. so through the hands it's, i do orders as high as surroundings using the surroundings. like a diary peter was saying that it could be relationships. collaborations with people don't that. can you give us an example? going to make everybody give us an example. so we can see this happening in daily life as like to stipulate, like i'm going out of fashion and i'm going to die if i did something with my hands too many other to you for sure. well i'll, i'll continue with the technological example so, so the example of a smartphone,

we know all carry them around and increasingly use the not just to make phone calls and also keep track of dates, but for taking photographs. and the more we walk around the world and take photographs more, we are potentially outsourcing the memories of the things that we've seen and events we experience. and there's actually research now on the effects that can have on your memory for events, say your touring museum and you see art. and as you walk around, instead of simply looking at the art, you take photographs of, of the art and especially your favorite pieces. how that affects your memory, then for that event. and what you find is that people are using a phone or a camera generally to record the events. there is always out sourcing the memory and the experience of the event and it changes the way they remember it. changes the way they can later on recollect what they saw. and the reason it does so at least in part is because as you take those photos, you're paying attention to the situation in a different way. so by using that technology and outsourcing the memory,

you're also potentially outsourcing a part of the experience. and by suspecting what, what it's like in the moment and, and then what do you experience later on? i have lots of you 2 questions for you. i guess i'm going to get you to austin pretty quickly if you can. i need some people are not getting quite what brain capacity means. is it possible to run out of brain space? well, you know, you brought on peter rider who just gave that that very interesting example a minute ago. and it was peter who introduced me to the idea that the biological brain is maybe running at full capacity at this point. meaning we are using every bit of our brain to deal with our really complicated modern world. and that's the only way to transcend the limits of the biological brain which evolved to do, you know, very different things from what we ask you to do in our modern world of symbols and abstract ideas. the only way to transcend those limits is to bring in these external resort, says like the body like spaces, like other people just, i mean to,

to offer an example of my own. there's an interesting phenomenon known as trends active memory. whereas where, which refers to the fact that in a group. so you can share memory in such that each individual has access to the memory of all the people in the group we, nobody can know everything, but everybody in a group can have their own specialty. and when you know what other people know you have, i asked what well, or yeah, and it's fascinating any how when you talk and recollects a and an event with your friends, they might have a very different recollection of something than you do. and the active recollecting to gather hope, to bring up that memory, and then incorporate all of your friends recollections into your memory. and then

when you re consolidate that memory, which occurs in while you sleep that next night, you re consolidate their memories in with your own. and hopefully as a group, you all will remember more accurately than any one memory that j wants to know. gina, what causes forgetfulness, and how could he avoid it? this occurs if 1st of all you didn't have all the systems working in the 1st place when you were trying to remember, for example, or you weren't paying enough attention. so there are transmitter called acetylcholine in your brain and helps you remember things in the 1st place and a seat or cooling comes on line. when your brain is in that data state that i talked about before and, and when we are actively attending to something, another thing that helps our best, remember, better in the 1st place is to tag a memory with another parent transmitter called north and aspirin. and that's

something we're researching in my laboratory right now. what does nora afteren do to help us kind our memory so that we consolidate them? well, while we sleep and then don't forget them later. dustin, i have the answer to question. let me bring in chris. chris wanted to talk about how he changed the way he was thinking, doing the cause of pandemic. and i, and now i'm particularly doing locked out. i'm really intrigued. guessed by how he think our brains have changed. j knocked down and when we, i said, he said he's chris festival, like a ton of people around the world. when the pandemic did, i became cognitively overloaded with having to work full time from home and my son having school from home as well. i had a lot going on just like everybody else, and i needed different ways to kind of get through my daily process. so i sort of

doing different things that i'm still doing today. like going for walks every single morning while i work through different projects in my mind, or i'm listening to audio books or pod cast. and a lot of this was covered in and is great book the extended mind. i've also set up kind of like my home office area and collaborative work is also helped me out a lot just thinking a little bit more clearly. and even though we've been in this pandemic for a long, long time is gone a little bit easier. i cause it in our price. how we doing, what have you noticed? yeah, i think a lot of people can identify with, like christmas thing about feeling overloaded during the pandemic and having to work, you know, from morning till night without a break, without a chat with colleagues or without a commute, you know, and i think that kind of puts the lie to the idea that the more we exercise our brains and where we use it, the stronger, i guess, i think a lot of us actually felt much less intelligent during the pandemic. and i would

argue that another reason for that is that we were cut off for many of our usual mental extensions. you know, our colleagues, our classmates, and we weren't visiting, i knew and stipulating places we weren't maybe using our body so much because we were sitting in front of the screen for many hours a day. so i think that helps explain why a lot of people didn't feel like they were at their best mentally during those and that yeah, i, this is definitely happening to me. i don't want to say that part of your book was about natural spaces and getting out of the into nature, which is what the last speaker just talked about. and i talked about that was really fascinating. one of the things that natural spaces that is the piece of the wind and the leaves and the sound of running water that helps the exhaust us. and one of the reasons why i say that, is it anything that cons are green and that source of norepinephrine that have talked about before norepinephrine is

a no test it or that a little bit. there was a long way, a little bit helps you learn really well that too much is what happens when you're stressed out. and when you're stressed out, you're norepinephrine system, it's too strong. and what nature does is it helps the stresses, it helps. it helps that source of nerve and ask him to calm down. so we can learn and maximally. i think that the notion of the extended mind is also really useful. as we think about the pandemic for conceptualizing how it is, we collectively make sense and a brand new event like this, right? this is a challenge that most people have never experienced anything like before, and you can't figure it out on your own. you have to rely on other people. and you know, for example, we've learned over time how to understand graphs of disease spread, or the transmission of cobit in your, in your local area or hospital usage rates. all sorts of information, the ordinary people, most of the time haven't been paying attention to. and now at the beginning it was

overwhelming and over time it becomes less. so for a couple of reasons. one is that we actually do learn how to cope with new kinds of information, right? over time, we get better at it. the other thing is, as part of an extended community on mind, we get better presenting information to others. so policy makers and people that y'all are just and people in science, communication, and so on, as well as the news media are now much better at showing people the information in ways that are understandable and that they can use in their lives than they were at the beginning of them and that's a process was suspended. mind isn't just a tool we we, we have inevitably at our disposal. we have to build it and we can make it better. i was like a multi and boulder. he's a philosopher, a science that can do university and, and i'm, he really tackles this idea of how we really max out our brains right now. what is possible within our brains? and then also the back of that i would like some practical solutions that or i

guess can give us about how we work small to his mouth. the money from office has argued that the human brain will never unravel certain mysteries about the universe. just because of the way our brains evolved. just like the mind of a dog movement understands prime numbers, let's say. the human mind is bound to have certain biological limits to. now this position sounds modest and humble, but the trouble is that it's always thinking of human intelligence in terms of a single isolated human brain. without the health of mind extensions, i've gotten the structures and collaboration, but this is exactly what makes human intelligence unique. human intelligence is open ended. i'm probably unlimited, but that's, that's what i like to say. but my life proves otherwise. i, i, i want to talk to, to you about some professional things that people can do to really expect what the

brains are capable of. for instance, i'm going to play a little video of what quin exercising in japan and tell us why this is important. and what we should be doing, and i liked to extend our break regarding exercise and move the working on the construction site to inspire. oh. very common. why is important? how does that extend that? right? yeah. this really lovely. that's a, a, a program of exercises that millions of people in japan do every morning and has been doing for decades. and there's a couple of things going on there. i mean, one thing they're outside talking about, they're moving and dr. power told us how important that assist thinking. and 3rd of all, they're moving together. they're engaged in synchronize movement, which helps bring

a group of people together and help get them on the same page. it's like if you're moving as one, if your body's image, this one, it helps your brain kind of as act as one. that's why i'm going to keep them this cool thing going. thank you for the exercises for from the japanese construction workers. and we're going to gina singing up to the singing. dana, why are you singing to this? is kayla. i am getting in order to set up. okay, that's fine. and to tell people about opens activated problems as possible. things i will research is create the beat. okay. no tv oh, by the city will be shaping that looks, drawing memories away. a to then a fission lee. yeah. i've seen it to shouldn't go to hell. tell me why that wasn't just the trip. i kept telling my sing my entire read search for each episode

. of the stream, and then i'm going to be back to that hosting as always, that you're doing and so your, your whole audience will be better um, duties are duties because they help people remember better that 44 beat is in the say to stream our frequency and a song just helps us, especially if we thing it together. when i'm giving lectures, i often have my ideas, sing that song after they hear about. now when it ends your client, they all say it together and staff, their fingers write their hands and this is like so many times gonna give you however, if a picture right here is an office that i know pretty well. how do you make this office environments? i mean, make it a better office environment sustained king performing well? because right back here, this is my desk. i working at the grayness, it's a very tragic office. dominic, what we, we need to do to extend this thinking that was going on in this office of

the great question. it is a tragic office. i'm sorry, you know, but anyway, um, i would say the most important thing in the office is the people. and i would worry less about the space. so the fact that i know people in the office, well, whether they're in the office or not. um, you can, you know, put some paint on the walls, but i think it's the relationship between the people and their sense, particular of the common unit as working together toward that sort of common mission instead of goals. we know to be crucial for both people be excited about the work, but also be productive and cooperative. and so building a collective and common identity regardless of the space around you would be my primary recommendation. all right, this has been such a fascinating conversation. we've only scraped the surface, that's so much more that you can find out say what everything absolutely not. gina, gina was sent to us and we'll do that right at the end of the show. i have the most, my i let me turn on the show. do you know here that it was going to be open the

mouth? is there any 2nd now? ok, look at my laptops, extended mind name of the pool. you can find more about the book. you can either book go to adding murphy pulls to to cite. dominick, the power boss, he has a book as well as the fall, a gina just because she's amazing and she may, will seeing you at the say. thanks for watching everybody. i'll see you next time. take the time charles. done the razor, the height and size dramatized cost from i'll just here. and this season we hear

from some of history's dogs noticeable women, unconventional and extraordinary office. i am 40 that kind of a communist revolution of every one in china, new my state. you've heard all of them power it's time you have from the, from 6 of hindsight is out now subscribe wherever you listen to pop, cast off to 300 years of danish colorado as ation green, the results of attracting international interest. but the young generation is determined to own its future. no matter it's different. it's a rock or a dispute on say a student at the politician tackled age old issues with their powerful new voice witness the fight for greenland on a jersey to facing liliana. the un fit for purpose was like many critics sites, just pub solution doesn't get anywhere near enough done to the amount of money that

is put into a hard hitting into abuse you think about to their lives. it's enough for money to go on its own and built it's on thoughts providing on for centuries, people have been taken care of are. so i have every confidence that future generations will do it as well. you the story on told to how does era the, the nation is coordinated refuses to balance the international pressure to reinstate the house to president as the country monks of independence day, the kind of woman, isabel serrano. and this is ours is a life from door ha. also coming up on that, the president trump asked me to put him over the constitution, but i chose the constitution.