on charles don, the rate of 400 sites dramatize to pod costs from i'll just here to invest facing re here from some of history's blogs, notable women, and unconventional and extraordinary office. i am 40 that god of the communist revolution of everyone in china, new my state. you've heard all of them. power it's time you have from these and 6 of hindsight is out now subscribe wherever you listen to pub. at 1st he was removed from office. now and one con is in prison. the former focused on the leader has been convicted of corruption and barred from elections for 5 years. so is this the end of the game on cons, political career, and what's behind his billfold? this is inside story, the

welcome to the program. i'm serial veney 8. he was once pakistan's most powerful politician, but iran con, the country's former prime minister is now in prison. his supporters, a political persecution fuel his arrest reactions are mixed particularly in light of his contentious legal battles. the arrest comes a head of elections which some fear could lead to social unrest. so will this end him on cons political career and will it further deepen divisions among pakistan's political parties will discuss with our guests after this report by contra lopez, holding out pakistan's, former prime minister in brown con, knew his arrest was imminent before being detained, and sentenced. to 3 years in prison, he recorded a message urging his supporters to hold peaceful protests. a good offer who can you? because if you do not stand up for your rights, you live like slaves,

slaves have know, lots of their own lights alike and so on. the ground demonstrations followed with cons. supporters calling his arrest warranted to this of which i think his arrest is part of a conspiracy. people will hopeful when him are on the con, was prime minister. now that he's no longer, you know, face people are worried under this new government, the inflation rate to the old one side of the 70 year old cricket. to your turn, politician is accused of silly state gives he received this prime minister for his own profit from high end watches to jewellery, worth nearly half a $1000000.00 concepts the allegations are politically motivated and led by the military, who he's openly criticized in the past you get to have a system where the, the prime minister has the responsibility. but he does not have the authority to

implement his policies because that authority is shared with the ministry. the military has repeatedly denied any wrong doing and says it's not trying to stop him from running for office in november. some members of rival parties, a cons actions have that fired by the by the judge is the one who is based position to make a decision. but mr. han should have shown some resilience in politics. he started picking fights with people. the minute he came to power, trying to coordinate people and making enemies. you should have shown some flexibility. it's the 2nd time this, your con, has been arrested. he was detained in may in a separate case that sparked widespread on rest. his supporters came out and the 10s of thousands, but now it's unclear of this conviction will end the political career open of the most famous men in pakistan. katia,

look this up again for insights story. the the . all right, let's bring in our guess, they're all joining us from pakistan. sundown. our goal is our con, joint secretary of the opposition party joins us now. that's a mon cons party to be clear. pack us down to reach in sauce time worked out for you are with the pakistan people's party. you are the minister for forest and wildlife in send province. also joining us is a z machine of founding director of versa, consulting firm know you had a policy analysis there specifically on conflict for june, the and violence. welcome everybody to the show. shutdown and goals are kind. if i can start with you, have you received or has your party received any information from him or on? caught himself in the last 24 hours since he's been jailed. yes, his lawyers went to a went to see him today in the optic j where he's being kept. but unfortunately his

lawyers worked under way without them being able to secure the power of attorney from him. so probably try again tomorrow. but this is just along another incident in the long list of persecution, of which hundreds uh, that is taking place against the wrong on every president. and back as don, according to the constitution, has the right to have him loyal and access to the due process itself. not allowing him to meet his lawyers and be able to sign that power of attorney just tells you what this is all about. what's his legal team going to do? i understand they are appealing. am i right? absolutely. they are going to be, this is a facebook, josh went sorry, go ahead. no, i was just wondering what was the legal pos for them and for him wrong con. and it's funny because you don't how you have to stem can go to court when we've got our own to. and that's called a facebook court at the trial judge in this particular file from

a private assembly. and as i said, the real parameters to him, bronson, he put up rather juvenile posts on facebook, making caricature is a fine, no, normally that's fine. we only have a right. you have a particular opinion, but not when you are the judge presiding over in ron fonts case, many scandals took place. the judge tried to delete his account and try to delete those pictures even now if you liked the facebook within 90 days and still have access to all the records of full force, what we all have, snapshots of that. so you can imagine how that particular dispute started then in a case like this, a sham in which time is accused of selling is the one property uniquely acquired julie pay. taxes intruded. i'm the kid is not allowed to present witnesses in that particular case. so what do we do? conbal was through the samba, the high court, and he put in the revision application. that's why said that he's been singled out and focused on for not being able to present witnesses in his defense and the case

in which he has been charged by the stage. then the sub on high court gives a week for a week to, to allow him to process this entire application. and all of a sudden the same as lump on high court decides, in order to try and port to finish the heading within a day. which means he has no witnesses, no defense, and they can announce his punishment down the rest. so everything at this point is impudent. this case were lots time delay to stay in any high fortune focused on, on the supreme court providers. con me says noise. and he gets to sign his power of attorney. okay. um, and it is certainly the case that many lawyers, including in pakistan that have been interviewed by pocket study media have said that there, there are many issues in this case about due process and weather iran con, receive for due process. in this case, that's the, the case that there wasn't any due process and we have not yet of course,

and we understand that that's your point of view. the substance of this case is another matter we can talk about that later if you'd like. but i'd like to get bring in time or top for, as i said, governing a member of the governing part to your administer and send province. how do you feel about him run con, being jailed and look, this is not, and now you've question. i understand he's a political arrival, i understand there's no love lost there. he is. however, the most popular politician in the country, and i wonder how you reflect on that now that he's in jail as far as the puppy, like you're talking about, is much adopted right now because i said as well, he's one, he's one most of the lectures. he ran and recently it is easy, it is not working anymore because he's come out to be as of minus who was bringing him since back to the jails, the prime minister on the cost of the country. so we have never seen in the history of books done, some of them compromise on the principles of the country on the economy of your

country. he did all he took to hurt the country and is it going to be under people ignored what he wasn't that is a very, very effective now because you know me, mr. carr has been that a student since he's been at us and that has been no protest anywhere, nor piece for, for best nor piece for rodney's. and that makes it way through that. he's not very popular anymore. and you should also keep in mind that the person offers members of parliament is former federal ministers is going to administer, have on the left him and deserted him and they made new part to you so much silent . so you were not going in popular. i believe, as far as is a conviction, this is concerned. we all know a very when how got up to you was we have proof of all of the kind of these done. i'm a nor politician in focused on add to did has a better for them into the use of corruption which mr. han and i want to lease that

into what we're gonna be sending to. we have the proof that and, and always taking his course of course as a bucket started, he has the right to defend himself. he has the best lawyer has been down working for him. so i'm sure there is no way you can think of something and just bring along with them. of course he is, the person who said even for everyone behind bodily needed put up incidence, that running behind boxed is a system for the on campus about behind bonds. you know, i should even ship by save money given that was it wouldn't be on boss. so i think it's a d, as for his own poison jesus, i get the way right now. yeah, that's a bit of a trend and back us down over the last 1010 plus years just over 10 years. i mean, 3 pakistani leaders have been barred from running for authors by the courts. and of course, the wrong kind is the latest before that there was the b, b, 's, use it for other kalani and the pma lens, noel story. so it's certainly not something that's just limited to him. ron con, something that does seem to occur pretty frequently. impacts us down is the machine by turn to you,

mr. top where it was telling us that m on con is no longer popular and that he's isolated your thoughts on that. a nice thing mister toddler is wrong on that subject. i think mister han remains quite popular. as a politician, i think we have to, to understand that mister con also was no exception to the wave of a sunny voters. have reacted to governments before a few years into a, into a government. the a and a sort of incumbency effect sets in and the whole just starts questioning. the performance focused on the democratic continuum is a bit of fragile on struck. we have not had too many democratic transitions in the last uh it since 22008 is so the last 15 years. uh, and we have seen the fbi info and then we have seen the bmw 11 fall and we have seen

the bpi and butler must accomplish no exception to the systematic trend with a prime minister doesn't get to complete his dom. i think it is a boss, actually plausible, an idea that mister khan had lost confidence of the people. and mister con, however, the vote of no confidence douglas gathered out was what i got about it. i believe mister cons popularity back and this has validated by the research that we do on public opinion surveys or so. at the moment you have a voter in focused on who is young, who is new. this is not the same, focused on there is a high because of the there's a highs uh percentage of urbanized mobilized young voters who absolutely want to have their day at the ballot box. and the demand for an election and buckets on never even higher than it is now at least we can see and be so local

because of democratize media. we know that we of the vote as well. so i think we just have to understand that that in one province, the province of sound on as strong. mr. con probably retains a lot of popularity in the punjab robins, which is the province which mr. collins party has govern for a short period of time. there were issues and, and, and that's where his popularity has taken a little bit of a hit. however, he does remain very popular, but popularity doesn't necessarily translate into constituencies at the ballot box . and mr. han loan back in 2013 in the election. so well, hold on a point of correction there in the last, what has it been 12 months ever since he was ousted from offices, prime minister, his party has won the vast majority of the elections that they ran in. yes, the and, and i think that is the what his popularity does translate into the ballot box as

far as he's concerned. that's my point. and i think that that if he is not on the ballot books and the political body doesn't, isn't allowed to run, isn't allowed to contest in a free and fair election environment, then there is no guarantee that your vote, mister collins, the supporters will be able to go stifled, that is the point that i am make and 2013 on pause, also very popular. however, his message, disney resonate at that time. so the sunny vote or is it the sony border who also wants accountability? and if mr. com is popular right now. it's because the bucks on the border is sending a message saying, we bought an election, we want a democratic continuum and we want our all additions to start working with the java to descend down. it goes our con. what's the strategy for the p t i? now, from what i understand there was already a plan in place and to have

a committee essentially, to rule by committee. after mister con, would be arrested because this is something that he saw coming. what's the play for you now? uh so uh, but uh, beachy uh, the bike sunset weekend sauce and jamal based on me i the only 2 parties or at least that are a significant have a significant amount of fund was in voters that are non domestic bodies. the rest all of that. and grandfather, the grandmother's son, son in law, sister, uncle in boy cetera, et cetera. these are not democratic even bodies, nor is there any demo democracy in pakistan right now is just a bunch of families. and they want to continue to as soon as they are unfortunately focused on. so in our case, there is a, a sequential, a high option plan. and that is working on boxes that set up. we're working with ensuring that time is going to get to just as he deserves. having said that,

i was this thing that we missed. you might be something with a, with a lot of interest. i will say one thing built conduit when pretty much all of the by elections, even though the entire government machinery and they've all the fighters put in. yeah. that comes with it. you know, the guns pumped all the stuff has been forced against him. he was nearly a knock natalie. i mean, they were 5 assassination attempts on him to this point in time, were witness to some of them. they have been more than 200 cases in which he has been indicted. and the entire reason that is happening is because of his unprecedented popularity, the mistake that was made by the cdm, the score this coalition of these people who used to hate each other about 18 months when will drag it to a shot that the court. and now that all the strengthens, the problem here is the following, not the had an election impact starting in may 22 a 2 months after they removed con, they might've been as john's for a government for the mandate. and they could have performed what has happened and

focused on last of the 16 months. is that where on the verge of bankruptcy show, we haven't defaulted yet, but the people have defaulted. people don't have food to eat where going? so a 50 you're on press dented stagflation, as well as in station that is getting the regular jump. so it hardly matters that the 5 percent in fall was things that things are fine. and hunky dory, it is that very popularity at the ballot box that has some scrambling for color. i mean, for god's sake, they found the critic somewhere. they paid him and he, they got him to say that he's living and send with this very much my advice. so it is a case of desperation. the slightest mistake x 5 is edited and josh montu, whatever that may be, constance to date, as a beacon of hope for regular pocket studies, and not just the mind on the street. the man who has them all by phone, the stance on talk with different see able with the women with the elderly, even with the times for well fox that and why does even with that simply because

jordan called it and i'm finished. you focused on came out as one of the top 3 economies and we talked out on has, is with numerous mistakes sort of been made. but the mind is genuine to a cause and that causes blackest on, on as being equal. it's all being done. it's so we're trying to and i'm giving example a brief one. i'm one of the very, very briefly with the question. sure. if i could just finish that 11 of those people who is in trouble for not taking a bribe, i can name names. i can give you numbers. i am, i have been off a dozen times to leave han and when i refuse to do so, i was charged with sufficient. this is what is happening on the ground, unfortunately. so. okay, let me take it over to mr. tell for our 2 other guest. so mentioned the importance and the need for elections, right? the people want to have a voice and people want to go back to the ballot box. now there's a huge question mark, as we speak about the date of the election. i don't want to get into every little bit of detail about this, but it has to do with the census and whether these elections can be held under the

terms of the census. that hasn't been completely finished and there's good there's, there's redistricting that needs to happen by the electoral commission which is going to involve constitutional change, etc, etc. several types of steps that will take several months. the bottom line of this is that we don't know when the elections are going to happen. what's your do you know, 1st of all, when elections are likely, um and also do you not think that this is a little bit troubling, that a popular opposition party has been thrown in jail and just at the same time, a caretaker government is now going to have to be put in place to oversee elections . and the result of that is that on an elected body is going to run the country for an unknown amount of time. even as an opposition figure has been silenced. a mr. business as that is being very clear in very wilkins that's even locked except any days in the coming collections. so uh now is on november 8th then. okay. the,

the, the committee of common interest and everything. and they have decided to agree to the newest answer which were not very popular, but because the decision has come, this is a that has been very good. he's a given, getting inspection that it has to be the election has to be in the next uh, 90 days, max and we were suggesting 60 days. but the next injunctions is that they need a minimum of 90 days for the next. and so we are very hopeful that that makes sense, but it'd be on time. and this is what soon as the economy of the country, this is worth a bunch of stuff, needs president elections elections. and as far as people in the mazda of concerns, it's been a very common we haven't been fighting, it isn't the presence of that in, for collections when he was behind the bus. so didn't show he'd been as he'd worked go as i bought and still have many other leaders. so if you would pop, you know, if they believe kind assumed buckner, no one has the bottom. the box dante begins up, it is going to condense,

it will have a symbol, and if it still has supported, we will be very happy to accept the switch them out. but if you haven't heard the, the but the video to coordinate with you in wrong as you did before, it is, it is the, the question is people who come out and peacefully protest but nor i should be in nations and no safety in any programs at any major needs or any support against this? remember i con, which means that he is now alone, honored by himself. i know very few people like me so not i assume they're standing besides in the top left and directed him and sort of the kids as i can judge. i'm in fairness, in fairness, we're recording this 24 to 36 hours after mister con with jail. so i think it might be a little soon to say nobody's out in the streets, protesting in his favor. maybe we just give that a little bit of time before we, we assess whether, you know, he's still got muscle industry. so my question is the p p p. i'm afraid of

going head to head with the p t i. in the next elections which you have now said should be happening within the mandated to 90 days because again and i, and i'm sorry to come back to this point, but the p t. i has one almost all the by elections and provincial election provincial evictions. that it took part in over the last few months. uh, let me, let me refresh you actually, all the seats that the focused on people's party for tend to buy nixon's from could i cheese, one of our supporters district dad and the one against iran, yazzy. then again, did a fall motor uh, 40 minutes to show them a good issue from a job. i would like to look at differently and if you did image better, so i'm not sort of a, b, a, b and then uh, the drumming breakfast. his body has been losing and reading and his name, but the bucks on people's bugs, even if ever you go to johnston. but i can't do of you were able to defeat bpa,

and you must also keep in mind that you seem to be high elections in the key, which is the biggest best city in pakistan where they run the seats. hydro came from betty hardwick, the farthest that'd be the party was the single largest majority on number one, number 2, we hadn't jim, i n a beach, it was a number 3 because and jim was not the testings. so we have a good one man in kentucky which was the very reason, and we have seen no hope of the jobs spring up of the b g. i. in fact, going down to what the cutting state taxes are telling us is that a con is no longer a as stream as it used to need doesn't happen normally. in, in focused on we have a trend of this, something the public wants to go because it doesn't take us 48 hours or 24 hours. they go out then in there, i think the only place where the bts support is processing isn't that dreams, i guess. okay, as he mentioned that as a political panelist,

i suppose you look at this and it's your job to try and decide for okay, what happens next, for the country framer on con, in his party and, and just for the political landscape in general, as well, a single, what is important to note is that very literally, that is going on and bucket funds covering context is unprecedented. and as some things are happening at an amplified scale, and most of these things have happened before a n y n. and by the way, with mr. adolfo said was correct, b, b, b, 2 has gained in popularity, b, b, b, and b, d, i for your viewers should know they don't generally conduct them the same areas. they really different provinces. additionally, so both of these parties that you have on the panel today are gaining popularity. the, the political party that's in trouble is really the one, the prime minister. the current prime minister belongs to where h has a pamela. so what we'll have is it will be protests

that will be the audit process. you have to understand as a lot of protests, but deep as well in a population that is under severe economic do residence. and then as a leader to this book, if somebody likes on or for instance, cannot contest a constituency in a free and said election environment. we can say it's a fee inside election. however, neither was 20182013 was much better. and so we've had each party at some point, compromise on these principles of democracy and uh, no authority ends up delivering, in the public interest. and which is why the, the, you know, the, that was, and a number of the legislative measures dodge well endorse embossed under the b b. i government that will oppressive undergone on and as such as, for instance, the legislation on,

on uh the what we call the pick up or the parental of an electronic crimes act. so there's a number of cases where, you know, political body has been a reliable ally in democracy and what needs to happen if the democratic continuum and focus on is to go on. it is that that has to be a limit to the village events. political parties need to recognize that the phone number is not enemies. and one of mister hahn's mistakes, for instance, was not recognizing his political opposition as a legitimate opposition. only have inbox and the political spectrum is this. cross nation with political parties are constantly trying to deal legitimize each other. this is a severely owned arise design, right? you're making a point actually that was made in um, you know, report at the very top of the show there was a, a man who, i believe is a resident of talk where a run kind his jail. and what he had to say struck me. he said, i wrote it down,

he said they run con, started fighting with people and making enemies basically the minute he came to power, which is kind of what you're saying that he, he, he didn't know how to treat even his opposition. and that ended up being a political fault. i mean, judging by the results in the outcome, we're gonna have to wrap this up. but just one last question for you is email, which is playing. see if it's possible. sorry. go ahead. well, the crisis is via economic crisis and for some reason that order of priorities to address the economic crisis has not been taken. so your question about when the election is going to happen in board is going to depend on where the, the, the leadership of the country decides that they can rely on a group of people to date, the right decisions for the economy and not take popular decisions and that's a judge. all right, listen, i want to thank all or guess for joining us in the program today. thank you very much than done. i was our con time worked out for and as a machine, i thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our

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