around was that change at least one or 3 men in different parts of the combined go down as they faced drought wild animals and madame a crack in the constant fight for survival risk in it all books. one of our colors and streams to the fellers pulled a savings for us from russia. virus neva, also spin central in helping ukraine fight for this intention to at times just as with the you, how will the ukraine effect poland future this is inside storage. the hello welcome to the product of i'm so robin. poland has been playing a central role in the wall in ukraine as

a vital native bridge had for supplies to its neighbors. and the destination for millions of refugees. since the end of the soviet union relations with russia have never been home, the war intensifying entities forced a difficult history. membership of the european union and nato has seen the former soviet bloc country become a major, a nation in western alliances. but at times, relationships have been strained, unafraid, just last week, tensions boy, labor and expense between ukraine in poland, with each calling and the others on bassett, a. when a polish minister accused ukraine of like ingratitude, intervention ukrainian presents loved him as a lens. k was needed to cool things down as well, relations between poland and neighboring valery sa, seen as being as an all time low. little polish troops are being sent to the border leaders and will also refuse. min skipped a space violations by military helicopter cruise and say that russian voc besson

reese pose a threat. poland was also and good by the res, helping african migrants travel to wolf to postpone an attempt to get into the u. tensions to surrounding ukrainian grain impulse into the, you know, poland imposed its own grain and ball. okay. after ukrainian supplies into europe since the will began brought prices down, hitting poland. the vital agricultural sector has a very polish general election in october and have been close to wide, medium ball, go to include some fruit and poultry. while united way the you, i lies that ukraine, militarily. poland is involved in serious disputes to the use highest called the european court of justice says post changes to how the judges are pointed over legal. the polish justice minister lashed out calling the european court corrupt that he is also withholding ninty $40000000000.00 at 8 to poland with serious dispute. so green energy policies, coal mining,

and phasing out vehicles with petrol and diesel engines. the strong unity, however, with the over russia seen is a direct threat to poland, russian. and i'm not sure that i need to. there are all kinds of hybrid detox right now, and i'll boat is on the list you any and border on the polish border which we have been seeing for the past 2 years. russia and beller roots are increasing. the pressure on our board is the increasing the number of publications, and we have to be aware that the number of these publications will increase because she's in the other 5 minutes as poland is becoming the most pro us european power hostile to russia. so just to assure you that there are existing risks associated with the militarization of poland to which has become the main instruments of the united states. and p. russian policy also announced its intention to build according to the polls the most powerful on the, on the continental. in this regard, large scale purchases of weapons has begun from the united states of america, great britain and the republic of korea, including tanks, artillery systems,

and defense, a missile defense systems. i'm calling about the cross blue light spring in august and will so lily on the stage, the president of the will also institute, a polish non profit, think tank specializing andrea politics and international in fans in the lane is that are assigned to an editor in chief of b, n. e. in tele news thoughts as a business media company focusing on the matching markets. and also joining us from poland. capital is me. how about of the sky, a senior fellow and managing director at the job and marshall fund, east, a non profit transatlantic organization. and welcome to inside story. we start with you a more sole because paula display heading the defense of your when it comes to any potential aggression from russia and russia's allies, will sort of choose, is bella russo,

of allowing russian back to block the troops of threatening in advance on its borders. how well rich should we be? well, this is all depends of what the buckner just group will do in belarus. for a number of years, we have no consider bellows as basic. the military space of russia bell or risk is losing sovereignty. the just coming me clark with his are coming so that he's very worrying and paul, and as you said at these, from the front of this coming on taishan with, with dr. shas giving that is 90 percent of military age to ukraine, goes through poland and, and poland is becoming a strong made to align with spending a good 4 percent on defense. and this year manufactured the same question in by late and how, what should we be about the buildup of russia's allies, you might say on the bellows border. but suddenly, a, the pressure has been using better as a, as

a long time for is brushing against ukraine and a goose in february last year. this is attacked from the north that loved the blast by coming through better us down to get our best to show a way of doing it. however, it is the post this morning on the russian. i'm kind of grandchild st. check and saying that the percent goes actually kicked the voc land troops out because he's refused to pay for them. we're waiting for confirmation on that story. but again, i think that argument troops of unsettled everyone because after the 8 months campaign to take by thoughts they've uh, established themselves a reputation of being for us as an effective seitz's. and so having such a hudson ministry, thoughts in brothers has unsettled everybody. poland in particular, which i think is partly much of a sense be dropped the truths. yeah. but again, look, a psycho is, is a, is a bit of a loose cannon and the chances of better us and him specifically attacking somebody like pulling on, i think, a very low. that's what he likes to mix it up. he likes to build up tensions in

which he uses in his negotiations with boots and in particular, he has to be useful foods and keeping uh, uh, on his backs of it. so it's, it's definitely useful. it's okay. i'm in the house. certainly agreeing with you on that blessed call service or liliana, also a mall. so is it a novice time for the the thing? cuz in also the politicians, the critics, the support has to try and work out what's going on on. poland bowed as how do you assess the situation at the moment, especially when there was this talk of a bill that the troops potentially on the poland valerie spoke to? yes. on. first of all, thanks very much for the invitation and directly answering your question. well, of course the situation is very serious. however, on the other hand, i will rush. i was also supposed to get can 7 days. so when so think about it as a reality holder. yes, the situation is very, very difficult. also calling this spending a lot of money on defense,

also investing in not just the international, the trick with man, but also our domestic ones that we use. the situation is serious. however, we also need to be realistic. and of course, let me know that before i go back to me, caught about this, how to people, us assess pollings membership of nato. do they think it's working in this particular context of, of the nato countries, also helping poland defendants board as well. i would say that to me til is our security director and i believe the majority of society. where did you meet with me as still there is no doubt that the best 2 percent debt to we need to spend on our defense is just the meeting room and also poland. so it's encouraging other countries to spend even more me,

how can i come to you i in will. so in your opinion, the russian tactics are changing all day when it comes to just about that. but the relationship with batteries and with lucas shaking co and the friends the allies walk. wagner is that well minutes then this is talk of nuclear weapons. how strong is the relationship wherever the weak points in the relationship it was the 1st just agree with the piano about being just applying to mullens just to just so everyone shows pulling these all the data is all in is the most of the pro need to country that we have in europe a g m s, will come out soon with bit poll showing this as well. so there's no question about the popularity of, of nato. you can pull it in when we look to ballad, who's in russia. again, especially the district to do community the thinkers that military their positions

are seeing basically at connected space. yes. what question? okay, is there? yes. he is the president of of bell. it was because piece crimes gave his own people because of he's economic depends on the russia and now because of the presence of eh voc, their group and nuclear weapons funds and cheese territory, we'd really should not consider bellowed was a separate southern country putting couldn't get rid of what question call if you really wants to what questions? because the main goal is to remain in power because that guarantees that he is staying alive. and so he is no longer at any possibility, far, far, will pressure, and calling bellows to bio skin. anyways, russia and then to west, it's firmly within the grid of my scope. and that is why,

when we see my movers close to our borders, the polar and this is when we get concerned, especially about the hybrid topics and data. but let's come to you invalid. and because it's interesting, the perspective from poland to where you are in the germans will have a very different take on it. but obviously, you know, your news agency, the looks of hold hold of europe as well as such. i mean, what's the perspective that we're about what's going on between the poland and by the russian border? it was, i says, i mean this year has been divided. that border was opened before instances before the war. there was a huge amount of trade between european union and russia. and so the science has started to appear at 2014 and i thought it was wide open and most of the traffic there was it comes negative trucks pressing it one way or the other. too much changed. now is we have a sort of sideboard, it has become a militarized border in so much is the to any of those. so she has to show a boat up with that of us and it's recently close to this post of the statements.

the premiums have massively 4 to 5, the product of florida and all that stuff. the 2nd invasion from the know, you know, threatening k a. and i was seeing that the problem is i haven't seen this incursion with the had a cups is the best way to ship everyone up the strength. wow. and the troops being in, in better versus unsettled people. now pulling on these or submit this rising then part of the florida. and if you remember about a year ago, there was the migrant price this way. um, look a shank that was sending thousands of and last name at least in refugees across the board of and again it was just open. i mean people were wondering through the power process and that's changed. i mean there's now by way of fences and they came out of the forest in front of the fence and this serious gods. but we haven't seen that kind of minutes rice, buddha, in europe for whatever. it's 7, something just yeah, i need somebody to in the story. the attention. yeah, i mean there was a separate, there were several issues. opponents going through the basement to model of the is

this issue with ukraine in the war and ukraine. us that's about body by rush, or let's just slightly move on to the relationship of poland and the wool, a new crane and the to the outside world. it seems of a cozy relationship that both ukraine and poland have, but there are issues between poland and the rest of europe on the different front with the you and the court of justice leon, i come to you about this in about a jurisdiction about sovereignty, about who really is in charge of poland because when you have that in grange, you might sail, set in stone, need that and can pull and deal with its neighbors and its international partners. this has not been resolved tons it between will sole and brussels. well indeed i would say that the relationship between uh, as you said were signs. brussels is quite complicated, however, um the, um,

me on this uh, this crisis. so this problem being through this, our system, as you also mentioned, had, so i would say to the nation's 1st of all is the political and also the 6 found pay for lateral. so yes, i agree to do the story system. yes. still mean salary forms of the we can also hear from some of you to present that there's some government that i've seen. there are some plans to reform it. they will when they are a site or a cotton c. um, but there's also another complement of it, which is the political they mention on even, you know, just last year when uh for the i am a visited war. so she had a meeting with, with our prime minister and where it began. it seems like um, the conflict with results and the probably the next generation found to will come to poland. however, it didn't happen. so i believe that the only one injustice in power. it is possible

that someone will not get the money from from the next generation fund. indeed be, how can i come to you in most of this is a good issue that is grinding all as poland heads towards a general election. and yet some on the list, and if you read what's on the internet and the people that we're speaking to al jazeera about this, the, the incumbent political party has been very good at demonizing. it's opposition. and demonizing minority groups full in the space of saying this is the natural suffering t, a national security. oh yes indeed, that that is the argument, but it is very firmly rejected by all the european ending type rather than you in legal authorities. that is really knows indeed that on the issue that the changes that the government introduced in the ability will assist them

fall within the rule of law as, as, as other european countries. if it is, you know that the issue and this conflict has been almost resolved as of yet not pointed out. but it was the fact that president b, the who didn't sign the law president coming also from law and justice with inside assigned below. that would correct some of the biggest uh, issues with with a lot of law. so i think there is a, there is relatively little expectation that a, if law and justice wins the upcoming for parliamentary election on october 15th, that need to be that account, that fixes the issues of the level. i think that our expectations that poland can begin to a longer process. the fact of going back to the distribution system that has

a level of independence uh only under a different government and then to kind of well. so what happens at all will his always talk to agency? i mean, better i received in the late in the president bite and was actually in poland earlier in the me to expound single extolling the virtues of freedom and democracy and around the anniversary of the invasion of ukraine also to have sell at the right time. you might say the system comfortably doesn't with the us, having to make alliances, as some might see with countries that have all the questionable, i wouldn't say domestic internal politics and issues. i think human rights and it's not just poland, it's tucking into you as well. and then tell you that, i mean that we'd be of any kind of the inside race. and then we see this in a regional context. and i think button has to go that and give that message because polling needed reminding about the democracy. part mean the judicial reform is effectively giving the government the, the routing coffee a to find

a compression because which is supposed to have separation of one of the judiciary and the government. and the kind of did a very interesting poll several years ago and found that there's a, a, uh, bad news phone line that runs down the middle of europe. and, oh, the opponents boats into the european union membership because economically is what fantastically well. and so much this problem get some 9000000000 euros and reconstruction funds and buy and concepts, you know, before the war you kind used to get 3 been in so it's a lot of money and pulled and that's flourished in 2008. it was the only country in europe that didn't go into recession, but they haven't really bought seems to provide use of the project. and again, this sold line of bodies, if you look to the, to the east, opponents on that side of it. it is to these, most of the traditional, in this case can calculate conservative values and the rest, the reason you're of orthodox conservative values. but finally,

is the most important where it's much more sort of authoritarian, top down kind of a administration rather than the liberal democracy that we have here in germany. for example. i'm not associated problem, it's a work in progress. i don't really have any nice. i mean i'm, i'm traditional, may be part of it. yeah. really. how do you want to come in that a, i guess why i just went through it says some parts of your speech because you're talking that we didn't imply, you know, your pin values. i want to use this kind of words because colin's will come millions of refugees and it says award phenomenal. and because we didn't create any of the refugee counts as for example, in germany date. but we welcome all of the refugees to our houses. so we gave our hearts to, to, to refugees. and i would say to me, didn't to imply your pin values because you'd have 10 boxes for example. so that would be, and that's what to poland. exactly. show. nope,

just the political at least, but the whole society. well thinking of that, let's close back to the how in the wall. so, and of course it, while it's sort of the global community looks at poland reputation right now. as you know, he raised the vocal support of the military support that giving to ukraine the underlying tensions between the 2 countries that has been there for many, many years, hundreds of years. if not, you know one months, hey, ro such as a button dara full ukraine is nothing more than a monster for poland and these issues rumbled and do they know it. and this is why the presence of lensky, how to get involved recently as you're absolutely right, that poland and ukraine's have very difficult history. and we haven't just credit 80 if there's any worse rebuttal. boeing must occur where lots of poles as well as the cranes have lost their life. but the war brought nothing less than

almost the miracle i would say in terms of the desk of polish to pray and reconciliation as the on that point it out. polish society welcomed the ukrainian wherever the store homes and the history has really become a history that cause from time to time. but i cannot imagine as going back to the difficult political relations caused by history that we have seen before the war again that there is a bit of conciliation between our 2 countries is reversible and nothing that i would expect 2 years ago before the before the war started show what the history might not be echoing in the same way that what's happening is resonating right now . liliana in terms of the grain deal, because there is friction between ukraine and poland of a cheap ukrainian grain heading through poland into the european markets. and not

so upsetting poland and this agriculture will finances in belts. i mean, how is this all going down to the moment because poland is in ball god, ukrainian grain suddenly until mid september, that may continue. and that might upset the u as well. uh, i will take no, just a problem. i'll pull that up. but all of the eastern um, central eastern european countries because our main branch of the economy is indeed the recapture. and he has indeed dishonest. so we're quite upset to be just dealing with prices of the ukraine, m green. so yes, in this case, uh, the interest though for, from users has won over the interest at all for consumers. however, i believe that we will need to in the future a small smile, some kind of interference. so b, i get a p and commission to solve the issue, especially if you're thinking about the future acquisition. also ukraine. enter

your opinion. you know, banks, i bring you in uh for ballot and how much does an issue like great impulse impact on domestic politics. so to me, when your heading towards the general election, and this is a hot topic at the moment in poland. exactly. this is a very interesting so big and it says quite a lot about the complicated and difficult relations everyone has hit. and so much is ukraine now is completely almost almost completely bankrupt and it's only hot current. sienna is the green expos, and with the neighbor blockades, in the back, see, and the glass in greenville. but it's been trying to get as much grain as to kind of by train going west, which arrives on the boat is not it's and as many on a set that collapsed the local market and upset the local farm is. and so the government in, in poland band, it blocks, but this is colon ukraine's biggest supports. and yet at the same time, they cut them off from the only source money that they can at the moment in trade. and the reason why is obvious is because the election is coming up and the

agriculture love is extremely big and powerful. so how does the 1st make a change? a choice between supporting is that i am ukraine and dealing with rustic issues, winning and election. i name the dns, so this is on its own agenda, it's, it's selections and i see this hook. i'm trying to the point where the ukrainians band should the exports to problem which again hold on is a big uh, invoice or if you're current in sugar and that was the problem. the solution um hold on sauce the you for $1000000000.00 and compensation. so i think that's what's gonna happen is throw some money out to it. but it, um, you know, under pins that the, the western western europe ones this quote, ukraine. but at the same time, it needs or wants to limit the amount of economic damage that's being done to its own economies. and so this will kind of go on for too long. this is already cost senior, a lot of money, but as opposed to my mission and then the honest at that phone and in particular.

so a lot of sort of verity and the rest of europe has been very bad. say a lot of pain for the sake if you crime, and by that, so you are being by the way in, so let me just jump, it wouldn't become just ask him then how important is it to try and restart the grain dale and try and get you might say russia on board a dress of rushes concerns that it's products with being sold internationally. and then it also questioned whether the grain that was leaving ukraine was going to pull or at nations around the world. really did question that wants to take on the way that subject is being discussed in poland to well russia's naval blockade of the black sea of these because the huge river cautions in uh, uh, throughout the global saw, especially when it comes to hunger. and that could be the fix the easy by president putting guess, signing the green meal again. so some of this grain can be transported

through poland, romania, but it will not replace the parts of the of the black sea. so here are the responsibility for different good, just slides very clearly of what's left. the me to put the, i do think that will need to find a longer term solution because ukraine's agriculture policy agriculture effectively so large that each would require a huge changes to the piano, a culture policy, it each will when ukraine will become you members. so this is something that will be grappling with for the, for the years to come, certainly throughout the you or we'll come to the end of our product on. certainly on that last you the last question in terms of the relationship now between poland and ukraine and poland and the you, in your opinion, what is of most value right now to poland as politicians. so you might say sell that political position is like head towards that general election and the old,

this is all going to ramp up as the weeks progress. well, i would say that the relationship of poland to you as relationships between pulling in a new crime are completely different things. relationship between pulling on an ukraine a strong and it will be strong. color will be support team. ukraine. it is broken. ukraine has will not stop our relationship with you is something completely different. so i wouldn't even buying those things because you crash independence you credit. so very p is also our goal. an interesting conversation, i'm sure we'll be revisiting again in the coming months. has been great to have you on this edition of inside story liliana snatch ben at ease and we have but i'm not escape. thank you for joining me for inside story. and thank you. as well for watching this addition, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website at ologist everett dot com. and for further discussion, go to a facebook page that is facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. now you can

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