inspirational women, we want to gather the largest number of young women and showed the entire nearing performers. was the 1st to mail z to pay it in jordan to senior well celebrate females and taking traditional out in a new direction. they go on stage, it's motivates other girls to join citizen. so jordan and egypt pon outages here more trouble from donald trump charged on the georgias racketeering laws for trying to overturn his 2020 election to faith to jo fighting. trump says the latest indictment is rick, how serious is this for him and his presidential campaign? this is inside story, the

hello. welcome to the program. i'm adrian 2nd piece. have 3 criminal indictments already this year. now donald trump has a full this time charged in georgia with racketeering and conspiring to overtime his 2020 election to feed to joe biplane previous challenges a little den. the apparent popularity of before the us president. he's already hot favorite to win the republican nomination to run for the white house next year. he says, the latest charges a positive or politically motivated, which hunt his opponent, save his alleged crimes, go to the hoss of us democracy, which he's tried to undermine the decision to charge him. and the age came off to a 2 year inquiry in fulton county in georgia, are based on information developed by that investigation. 8 fulton county grand jury returned a true bill of indictment, charging 19 individuals with violations of georgia law.

arising from a criminal conspiracy to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in this state as well. the georgia and diapers drums full this year, and perhaps the most serious before the president of 18 of his advisors faced racketeering charges for conspiring to change the election results in the states. the racketeering charges on usual it's normally used to target the mass. you know the organized crime gangs along trumps allies to be indicted, a former lawyer and man of new york, rudy giuliani. along with legal advisor, john eastman. this also trump's former chief of staff, mock meadows in type that includes competing forgery, filing false documents, acknowledging public officials to modify the election results. giving false testimony as also on the list. prosecute to say the trump spent the narrative that the election had been stolen and due to fraud. he's still not idle 13 of the new

charges in all 4 criminal cases. he's fighting from face is a total of $91.00 charges. right, let's me to a guess from washington dc. we're joined by judy norman, co director of the center on us politics at the university college, london from taipei in taiwan, was find gold, lawyer and director of the association of americans residents overseas. and from london, we're joined by jennifer ewing, spokes person for republicans overseas. u. k. will, will come out to you will, julia, let's start with you. unlike the federal charges filed by the special counsel for the justice department, this case will proceed in state court. what are the implications of that for donald trump? the store? so i think the main implication of that is for a federal indictment such as the last 2 that we've seen. if trump is convicted for

those crimes and elected president, she could potentially pardon himself or a ally or sympathizer could also pardon him for a state level indictments such as this one that came out of georgia yesterday. i. that's not an option. a president cannot harden a state level of crime or indictment or convictions. so that's the main difference that i think people will be looking at. the other thing just to emphasize as this indictment is you're using a different um realm if you will, of, of laws of crimes that are within the state of georgia. that we're not, for example, including the federal indictment because they don't exist in the same way at that level. okay. but could that be a way around it for, for donald trump, if, for instance, there's a change of, of attorney general in georgia. it would be unlikely at this point that the indictment has already been issued. i did, i'm not a 0 analyst to to say for sure on this, but i would assume that it's the end date and has already gone through that even a change there. um would,

would likely be be tricky for them to undo the indictments. ross, could you see from southern jail time over this or indeed, the federal judge? all right, well it's certainly possible, but just to go back from one of your earlier questions. trump's attorneys are going to make a motion to move this to federal court because there is a present provision in federal law for a federal official carrying out their duties. if they're charged with the crime in the state level, they can try and get get it moved into federal court. now he tried that with the new york indictment and the federal judge. they are denied it, but different facts, tripland circuit court. it's possible he might seize mortars might succeed with this motion to get this uh, at least takes care is not the case for all the other defendants. i moved to federal court that remains to be seen, but it's definitely going to be attempted by his lawyers. but going back to your question with 4 indictments and in so many different criminal charges is sure it's highly likely that it will be convicted by a jury on,

on something saying that it might have the jail science. but of course, there's going to be appeals and it will take years before the appeals are exhausted . and again, if he's president and he's not going to go to go to jail, whether it's federal or state, you know, at worst, or for him, your state jail time might wait until he's done being prized today. so this is a really just the start of the beginning, and it would be a long, long time before he would ever see a day in jail journey. you another thing that you could use in this case being moved to federal cold? well, it's certainly a possibility and that's very likely what the trump team will push for. they attempted similarly for the new york case from earlier this year that did not go through for the new york case, but they probably will try it for this one. and the fact that it was a legit an activity that took place while trump was still in the office. they will probably have a better shot at that. but it's, it's unclear if that will happen or not. but i would agree with just the general

assessment that whatever level this is taking place that it is going to take a long time. if there is a conviction, expect there will be appeal. this is not going to be a short and easy process ahead. jennifer is this, as trump alleges, a politically motivated judge? i believe so, and 1st of all we've got to, i think about the amazing timing on this. we are now for, for, for with regards to indictments coming out the day after. there's really bad news for the fight and the family influence, peddling so well done on the b o. j for once again, you're having having them come out with you know, the day after something negative for the vitamin family. and the other thing is, if it's politically motivated, i don't believe they're going after. and because she's the former president, i believe they're going after. and because she is running for president,

and he's jo biden's, you know, big political opponent. and that's what they're trying to stop. so i don't think the goal is actually to put him in prison. i think the process is the punishment. um, you know, they want to fill his dance card with all of these different court dates. you know, some on really, really important dates, but before the iowa caucus or before and the republican national convention. so he's the terminal. and so what you're, what you're saying is we are, they are choosing the democrats of one of them out of the race. well, actually my theory and some of us that republicans overseas u. k. is that what the democrats want? and it's very good strategy. they want jump to be the g o p nominate they want to run against him in the general election. so if you notice, every time there's an indictment is pull numbers go up, he's able to raise more money. the base,

you know that 25 to 30 percent continues to support him. and people look at this is that what the weapon is? ation of the criminal justice system and they want to back him now that democrats, i believe, also think they can beat him in a general election because while the hard core republican base, you know, now there's nothing that can happen that will turn them away from trump the really important people are the people in the middle, the, the independent, the persuadable is that the belief that about 38 percent the voting population. so are they going to be paying attention to the nuances of this case? or are they just going to say, you know what, this is too much of a match? i, i don't want to hear about chums issues or biden's issues actually. i mean, i think depending on which probably you look at, there's something like 60 to 70 percent of democrats. republicans independents do not want to see a trump versus bite. and again, they don't want binder on either. so i think people are looking for fresh blood,

but again, i think it's think it's smart democratic policy to elevate jump up. so he becomes the g o p. now many plus what do you think of a lot of that particularly about but what jennifer was saying that about the timing a lot of this, i mean surely the us just as moves at the speed, the us justice moves, it is not pauses and it is independent, just a bubble. this isn't it. you know, certainly what district attorney relo setting or press conference that the laws non partisan were gonna have to keep in mind that these investigations began pretty, pretty much at the conclusion of the trump presidency. so they certainly pre date, his announcement that he was going to run for the 2024 republican nomination. but it's been pointed out in the last few hours by many commentators in the united states that white color investigations typically do take several years. even the harsh money indictments and in manhattan,

so that investigation was going on throughout trump presidency. and it was only 2 years after the end of his presidency that an indictment was actually brought. and as well as has been conducting this investigation again since january of 2021. it's really not unusual in complex. why color casey show or absent any proof of, of uh debra crack. conspiracy which may exist, but the prove hasn't been offered up yet. that there's some kind of coordination among state and federal prosecutors to brittany's actions against trump. and you make it very difficult for him to campaign in the primary. but certainly this is going to create tremendous logistical difficulties. for trump, he's got a court date, he's got to meet with waters. he's got a plan strategy for the case and every day that he's in court, he's obviously not al campaigning. although has to be weighed against the very large read. he has among a likely republican primary voters. julie,

the district attorney's office in fulton county, use a special grand jury in this case. what's the difference between a grand jury to a special grand jury and why was one used in this case? yes, said the georgia prosecutor ahead use a special ground jury for the 1st phase of the investigation that allowed for a bit wider scope of evidence gathering. then you are sometimes able to using a regular ground jury with appearing witnesses and, and these types of things. but the, the catch there was that you can't pursue an indictment to a special grand jury, so you sometimes get more information. but the indictment had to come from a regular grand jury. so much of it was found and had to be presented to a 2nd group, which is the group that ultimately issue, the indictment that we've talked about last night. okay, the judy didn't die, but accused is probable cause for it to go. criminal enterprise, violating george's rico law, the record to influenced and corrupt organization act. i mean what, what can you tell us about that? why would prosecute to seek to build a case around it?

yeah, it's a good question. it's a repo act, essentially covers the kind of racketeering. it was initially used usually to go after mafia organized crime types, but it's been used within the state of georgia and even by this prosecutor for other types of investigations. everything from teachers involved and cheating scandals to a different kind of a legend thing, activities and what have you. and i believe that they're using this in this case because they're trying to tell a broader story, a broader narrative. uh, many different actions that weren't, that should be taken by many different individuals, but all with the ultimate goal of changing the election results in the state of georgia in 2020. so it's a sort of an umbrella approach to telling this broader story of what happened in 2020 and that's why they're pursuing died. and it's one reason why this indictment actually. it's not only trump, but 18 um a 100 others as well. um, from lawyers advisors, etc. a rustle, a clock for the court,

appeared to accidentally post an incomplete. don't get to pull it out. blinding a number of charges against trump just off to mid day on monday, which trump fluids seized upon as being, quote, emblematic of the pervasive and glaring constitutional violations committed by the vote. fulton county district attorney's office. what do you make of that? often really, this will probably be a non issue or probably not going to be talking about it as a pre trial motions in here in a car. and ultimately, when the trial takes place is in a case of this complexity, given the need for a public relations strategy by the prosecutor's office, and that's totally understandable. she's indicted the former president united states. it's possible that some signals got crossed and you're a draft may have been prepared and handed to the court with instructions not to publish it until we give the okay. but it was published anyway. but again, ultimately, i think this is a non issue, but to go back to the,

the quickly to the rico statute issue. the very interesting thing there is a yes it's correct is historically at the federal level was used to bring down the mafia. and we wrote to me on when he was a federal prosecutor in manhattan, the great use of it. and donald trump was in the construction business there, manhattan, which the mafia was heavily involved made in the 1980s. he knows what rico statutes ard. so there's truly on it. i think this was used in part also to scare them because they know very well. let me go. statutes are okay. jennifer, i'm picking up on on what ross was saying about how do you think trumps legal team are going to play is well, i mean, i do think that leak or accidental posting of, you know, some of these indictments before the grand jury actually convenes is you know whether it was a mistake or not, it's sloppy. it doesn't look good. i also understand they, um, put out the names of the, the grand jury members,

which is great. i don't know if you've called that doc seen or whatever. but maybe this does turn into a non issue, i don't know. but as julie said, they are going for a wide range of charges. and so these are novel and rather i'm tested legal series . so could his attorneys all of this sudden say, wait a minute, this is crazy. you put this out, this is sloppy. what else? if you've been sloppy, i don't know. i'm not any legal expert, but absolutely, i'm sure that will be dry and everything. and again, that's the issue is we're all sitting near talking about this legal mass. and then, you know, we're going to be talking about the dividing families, legal match as well. and is that what we want going into 2024 is discussing 2 names. um, we have corruption allegations and legal charges, or do we want to talk about who's going to be the next president of the united states? i mean, i think the american people deserve better ross,

as far as the reset of the beginning, it's the false indictment. this year, the 2nd case to see criminal accountability for attempting to over to the election, or kind of, he's still when the republican presidential nomination with all of this legal jeopardy, hanging over him, his inability to campaign because of his oh yeah, yeah. as i mentioned it's, it's the oh, just to go ahead and if you change campaign because he's got to meet with lawyers or return court hearings. on the other hand, donald trump, ever since he famously came down the escalator in 2015 and even before that and his television as well as a business career. he has an extraordinary ability to get media attention so he doesn't necessarily have to be going to the county fair or the state fair in iowa or other places. he knows how to get media attention for himself . and he's got a social media tools and other ways to do that. he can just call in to certain

media stations and tens of millions of people are going to watch him. and pretty much every major media out with, even if they don't like. and they're going to report on what he said, but polls indicate he's got a large we edenbrook among republican primary voters. and the republican primaries are winter takes all. so he doesn't need to win by 25 percent in a particular state. he just needs to get more votes than the other republican candidates and he's going to win all the delegates within the r and c republican national committee. primary uh, process for that stage. so frankly, as of now, he looks like the good, the absolute, easy winner of the republican nomination. okay. truly picking up on, on what ross was saying in a few minutes ago. if, if he's the, the easy one of the show in for the republican nomination. he's convicted on any of the charges that are hanging over him. can he still be president? what legal reason can there is nothing in our constitution that prohibits even

someone who has been convicted of a crime or serving time in prison from also serving as president. so that's just not anything that's addressed in the constitution. i think many across the political spectrum will you worry about the implications of that, you know, electability 1st for a general election and then ability to govern afterwards. but as ross rightly pointed out, at least going into the primaries, trump is very far ahead. he has a very commanding the the end. if anything, the indictments of even a possible conviction just seemed to be mobilizing his campaign and mobilizing some of his supporters even more than what are those the things in the next. okay, jennifer, if, if he, if he gets the nomination, he's a show in for that. to what extent are the republicans picking a dog here? i licked him and his accurately predicted every presidential election since 1984 says that trump is done. he's got too many buttons, too much baggage. he's not going to win it took, like i said earlier,

i think um, depending on post 60 to 70 percent of the the voters in the us would like to see some of the different then jump and different dime bite and running. so on the g o p side, we have a great bench. you know, there's a lot of people that i think the americans would like to hear from, you know, whether it's, you understand just whether it's vivek. rumba swami. whether it's didn't, scott, you know, there's a really good bench and what's happening is, every time we're talking about jump, we're not talking about these other people. so again, the people that are going to really make a difference in this election are those undecideds and the best way to box, and are they going to take the time to really dig into this legal crab meyer? probably not. so i don't think it bodes well. um, for the republican gypsy, is the joe be not many i don't, but 2 things can be right at the same time. you can look at the general election

and say, perhaps i'd like to see a, another g o p. candidates and also look at these indictment after indictment. after indictments of the day, i have the bad news for the bite and family influence. peddling is a, this is a weapon, ization of the criminal justice system. both things can beat you at the same time. and i think that's what's going on for us. what do you think we have of these independence and not decided to go up? or they not, but they stay away from it. all is good that we get trumps way. and the interesting thing about that question is yes. so a lot of republican analysts will say, oh, you know, we've lost 3 elections. we're trump, to 2018 mid terms. 2020 presidential and congressional elections. and in part the 2020 to mid term because the democrats can control this on it. you're probably just didn't do as well as they expected in the house. but the reality is a trump has motivated a lot of people to vote. republican who previously were not voting. republican and also do just like recent presidential actions,

this is going to come down to the margin of victory in a small number of swing states. and then the average it, that's probably tens of thousands, maybe a 100 or 200000 votes at most. so the margin of victory, we're talking about the indictment of georgia were president trump called up the secretary of state and said, find me, go $10000.00 cross roads that shows how close the margin of victory is. and it's going to be the same thing again in georgia, in uh, arizona in nevada and michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin. and we look at the, again, some of those motors blue color rotors who switch from obama to trump of trumpeted sharp pricing really well with minority voters as well, hispanics blacks, agents have been shifting their boats to republicans and to trump. so i, i'd be very, very cautious about saying he's completely flawed and that he has no chance of winning buying and has plenty of flaws us because we've been discussing where they are. there, he's not popular people are frustrated over inflation. so it's,

it's certainly conceivable that in a one on one race, the trunk could be a bite. and if you just beat some of those wednesdays, surely would you agree with that? if it came down to a trunk bite and re match, they would be incredibly close. well indeed, we're already seeing right now. i think this was mentioned earlier that co show by then and talk con, knocking, knocking a potential re match. and this is your 2 candidates that people know very well and there are in the news constantly. so i'm so right now it's looking more even than i think of your many democrats would expect it to be, for example. and i think if there are democrats pushing for a trump nomination thing, it's going to be an easy when they should think twice about that because it's, it's definitely playing with fire according to the polls. and i wouldn't just 2nd wide ross that also that um there's the larger pools, but it's also where the roads are. and i think we'll see you again. there's very t swing states being very much a play and play again in 2024. and it's really gonna depend on what voters in those

particular states choose and do. and i would say many voters, you know, some are very strong term supporters are very strong by in supporters. others are voting for issues that just affect people more in their day to day. why if, how the economy is doing, how things are going on a day to day basis? so i think a lot will just depend on what other trends are happening. and if the economy keeps improving that will help bite in a lot. going into 2024. jennifer, the election is a long way away yet anything could happen between now then. but if he did run on, if he did when, what, what a 2nd, trump presidency looked like, remember those words on truth, social, if you come off to me, i'll come off to you. well, no, i mean, i think that's getting to the height of all that is wrong with some of these indictments that politically motivated indictments. do we really want to live in a world where we continue to, i mean, every single president from here on out would be indicted for something. i don't

want to go down that road. it just slippery so it's very dangerous and more importantly, it's distracting. you know, from all of the issues that are important for hopefully the american people. i mean, their kids getting their, you know, kids back to school after schools are closed in the environment. the border will, you know, whatever the, the important kitchen table issues are, what we should be discussing, not revenge against someone. but um, inevitably that could happen. but you know, those are that base, that 25 to 30 percent of the, the hard, good jump supporters do believe that he is right. is fully entitled to a 2nd term. so um, you know, is best term wise for years of peace and prosperity. the conservatives will tell you that he appointed 3 supreme court justices, that they're very happy with. um, so you know, anything, anything going to happen? but as a republican, i think we want to win. so we want that candidate that is most likely to win. i'd

be personally, i don't even think by and will be the democratic candidate. i think there's no way he can hold off this, you know, collect the flood gates that are starting to open with facts against. okay, is family. so anything can happen, as you just said, we are a long way away rush. but as far as the republican party is concerned though, i mean is it is one of his with this little, this control the see what, how much damage. i mean, not only do you know you have the 1st trump presidency and the time is that it through public composites image. and then all of this, the legal jeopardy. how much damage is this doing both the republic composite and to the us justice system with trump? constantly calling into question its impartiality as well. president trump the even when he was president and now now there was a former president, but during his presidency he would criticize the judges. and uh, yeah, the independence of the department of justice came under question because of his

relationship 1st with sessions and then later with attorney general bar and how bar for trinity the independent or sorry, the special council motors report to these things have been in flux anyway. but ultimately of trump is to win again. i think we will probably see a repeat of the 1st trump presidency when it comes to policy issue. so we would see a very different direction on environmental regulations education policy. certainly the border differ for many of the recent us presidents, whether democrats or republicans, they've been accused of the operating, what's called an imperial presidency. they ignore congress for, partly because we're so polarized in a partisan way, so very little can get through the congress. so the president start to uh, be more aggressive with using executive authority, then some of their products saucers, binds, done not again, as just price our shoes did, i would expect trump to do even more of that. and sure enough, there are policy makers and expert scholars on the conservative side of the

political divide. they're actually planning for that right now. they're planning on how of a stacking trump presidency could really of you use to the limit the presidential. the presidents are executive authority. all right there, we must leave it many thanks. indeed, judy holeman ross find gold, and jennifer earring, as you can see the program again at any time by go into the websites at alpha 0 dot com for further discussion. join us about facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha. inside story out of course, you can join the conversation on x fully notice twitter handle at a inside story from the i agree instead of going to the team here though. thanks for watching. we'll see you again by some the the

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