to the truck whole region as target one of south america is the toughest. we for the 2 men who seem to thrive on his challenge. a veteran truck drivers on says every quarter, whatever the web to provide for his growing time. and the cowboy who enjoys his rough and then the last risk in it, a power outage there in the west pilots in libya and he doesn't care well the option to come on the oven on the group is to try and find rivals. the country remains divided scott by an instability. can libya as a united in peace again was, is its political future? this is inside story. the

hello welcome to the program. i'm adrian sending an libby as late as such and violent seems to have settled down. but it once again underlines the countries instability. there's deep concern internationally about this week's on rest and which dozens of people were killed and many more injured. the african union and western governments. according for peace, conflict and deep divisions, assisted since more, i'm a good off. he was overthrown 12 years ago. so what's next for libya? can the divided nation ever be re united states? what will it take to restore peace? we'll discuss all this with our guests and just a few moments, but 1st a report from car leg on the lake, just 5 minutes and on easy. come on the streets of tripoli. days after the work fighting any yeah. between rival sections in libya's capital. dozens of people were killed and more than a 100 injured, a truce to hold off to one side,

the special to turn forth released this man. malcolm would comes a military commander from the 4 full full brigade group. analysts say he's an important figure in the battle for control of the country. the groups, the 2 of many involved and the stop start conflict that's place libya about exactly since the native back some of both the top of a long time lead. i've heard mama get daffy in 2011 unified and one of the countries currently split between the u. n. recognized governors of national unity headed by prime minister abdul. how much out the paper in the west and another in the east, back by one or can be for half the ad on the to rival administrations compete for power through shifting alliances within the groups on the ground debate but has issued an apology and wound against further violence, not to the lead, i apologize to the mother's father, sisters, and brothers who lost their children. really apologize to them. all of us,

libyans are not satisfied with what happened and we will not be satisfied with it. we will not be silent until we stop this matter, but 3 is often libya's warring fights agreed on a permanent ceasefire and what the un, cold and historic achievement. it seems, there's still no sign of the lasting political solution. car leg inside story. well, as your head, the libya has to rival administrations, here's a look at who controls was in the west, including the capital tripoli, the internationally recognized government, the national unity. as in paul, it's led by prime minister of the how many of the pay, but that is backed by the you when it controls the area in purple on the back, in the east wall, or how do you feel have to, is in power supported by a parliament into brooke. he controls the areas in orange, his self styled army is backed by russia, the united arab emirates of egypt. and the rest of the country showed in great is under the control of all the armed groups

a little later. as one of the fighting and tripoli was between 2 powerful groups and both, backed by the un recognized government, the full full full brigade is affiliated with the defense, but a street that is reputed to be libya's most disciplined. it controls the southern suburbs of tripoli and other areas. the special, the parents force is an ultra conservative group that acts as the capitals police force. it controls central and eastern tripoli and the air force. all right, let's get to, i guess, joining us saw us out, go see who is the front of the director of the civic institute before it's public policy, think tank and libya for me to run through it with joint by e. my body of nonresident senior fellow, the middle east programs of the atlantic council, from san antonio, texas. we are joined by non so l q q, who's a professor of politics at the university of texas, san antonio, and regularly visits libya for research work. gentlemen, welcome to old and asked,

let's start with you. what's the base between the full 4 full brigade and the special determines forces? why with the left. so i have a rest as a kernel from the full who is my food times a, as well then as a base as you, but it is down to a number of different things in the context is going to be critical here. but it's a mixture of minutes, show rivalries, you know, and strategic bottles of acute territory and to be a and this backdrop, the tool context and to be where the heavy ma'am is not for several months. so, by internal talks between the government and frequently let by have enough time to pay the $75.00. so there was right. i mean, there are always going to be tough, 1000 rivalries. and if you have me, it was initially just dismissed as, as run of the mill. you know, administrative, beef and tripoli about the territories of, of fighting over isn't some of the most valuable real estates when it comes in terms of the strategic ministry and supply lines and logistical roads. into tripoli, the gates of tripoli, that's in 2019 cutting off their loans as offensive from. it's also the, the, the,

the, the supply routes that were used by the rival administration that was set up in 2020 to the governor of national stability. and today, that's over the last few days as being the scene of that is of those why. the reason i think is curious the timing of this backdrop where there have been tools to the forward your new answer and government between up to, for me to write about coming up after that kind of political deal is, you know, just splitting up the cake bucks which of the on groups will remain infrequently who controls the valuable real estate? possibly that that has been able to spiral this discussion and the most valuable real estate is the old international app that is looking for be launched or re launched in the next several months. which is in the south of tripoli. i'm going to move the center of gravity from my ticket, apple, where the sd of the, the 1st script, the rest of the kind of move comes out and introduce that would move the center of gravity and influence in the capitol towards the side of the area. that the photo full traditionally tackle that the stronghold,

and it's an area that they have been trying to negotiate with the government of national, easy over that control for the future. so it's a mixture of all those different rivalries, much more problems that should be said. there's also a lot and as you have to figure out he's been involved in some of these joint middle principles and not being led by the un over the last year, 2 years. and he has made his, his opinions quite clear about his position over half the, when the fighting was getting very insensitive of the last few days. we heard of rumors of different on goods coming from the south are coming from different pockets around the country. many of whom are also you have to think as it is thought, the spiral from one of those top bottles. and so about that look like it was going to be a repeat of of 2019. so i think it's, it's curious, timing imap. what, what do you make of it the or do you agree with with us the same groups clashed in may this year by the time they were injuries, but no deaths. this time, last year, 32 people were killed in aaa, one groups. i lied to the, the, to rival administrations for this,

this week's violence of bear any similarity to that or, or as i was saying, is this just part of a tough war? and it's complicated, i think, yeah, you can not associate things from the political context and the overall thing, dynamic, etc, at a national level. however, in terms of these classes and in particular, i think there's no direct cause the link between what is what was happening at the national level in terms of dialogues and positions on softer and on his thumbs up, thumbs up on negotiations with the government of national unit, these prime minister, how many debates on his relative i do think that there are much more local tripoli, triple obtain, in dynamics that play as in western living dynamics that play in terms of the input does for these classes in particular. the for, for, for brigade had, has had tensions with the sd of, for quite a long time. no, not just because of the airport or the triple international air board opening,

etc. but also because the very fact that with hands that was formerly a commander of the us, the and effected from the sds, effectively after the tripoli war established quite successfully. some may argue his own by his own brigade, but no controls. strategic territory has carved itself a role, not just in terms of security enforcement, but political dialogues, etc. i wouldn't say that any of the players in western libya right now have a very clear the and the foster stands. i think a lot of them actually are pretty much looking at marginalizing opponents, vanquishing them, absorbing them in some cases. and this is both of both the case for the as the, the special, the transport, and more times the maybe the only fact maybe the only fact that differentiate more times as group is the fact that it's footprint does indeed extend beyond aaa. so as opposed to the mazda supp around the most groups in west or libya,

it has several branches in quite strategic cities like venue, where the like, that are going to and he has even had a, it's on patrol, so the bench with foot cetera. so you clearly see that it's an encroaching on areas for addition to the, the are and the point of view of the triple, the canyon goods of western includes from western libya. and so i think that is what has partly played into the tensions with the sds, and that's what, that's what part the, the, the glasses now, this isn't the discount. the fact that these pensions in the now kind of clear cut rivalry between these 2 groups will not be a politically and whether nice, by other actors, they can leverage those pensions but, but in terms of a causally, there wasn't anything there yesterday that lends itself to this adjustment that base was the sort of conspiracy of or, or gets paid by anyone in the back or months or given what, what he met his just said, what does it say about the state of,

of the country the here you have to on the functions vying for influence and control open losely a piece that kept the piece for the last year. and yet they can fight each other with a heavy weaponry in a densely populated area of the captive the capital city. a. i c i. i want to commend this gentleman, the 2nd one who said that he said, because i think he had his rights on, on, on the head to neighborhood. that is very, very right. it is not really so much types of politics as much as the type, the majority and too tough to. yeah. you have oh yeah, that will between songs and tripoli and this is a new, it's been going on the, on the page really, what do you mean? what do you have then time huge company. if it's just the area within, within the west, this is calling much of this it's, it's

a huge problem. so i'm going to go with a drug. so it's been going one of 6700 years, you know, and get better, get new, stopping for a while, but know too much. again, with each side having the dishes, you have you have the issue, you're having the how many minutes just to have the police say, you know, the department is the baby. can go to that, then you can go to the gym. i go there as a prime minister in those areas which it was ok to security because he has no control and go with that. yes, it is. this is a big problem. the fragmentation to say phase of thinking back today is really come from any type of unity in the country. i mean, basically i think that is up to come to the organization that perhaps the not meant to be together. and some of those that i'm starting to say that, but this is the to the graphs service. so that's all you know. do you think that you think that the libya is perhaps destined to, to, to split, to, to,

to be 2 separate countries that but, but there's no hope for united libya. i'm sorry to say that i think this list, i think it would be good to know for 12 years and this and this and the more and the more it goes off, the more this concept uses reinforced. i know one thing for sure. i know it's sort of make at least the usual one, building a new merge right up with the girl for those in favor with this question 3 mountain . this is really beginning to pull separation a good own way. cuz in the middle of this we, we, i mean, this is what's happening. you have the store full between subs in the, in the, in the west. this is going to take the, to choose a country. and so i'm going to happen any more money. but the specs as well true. if this does not the i'm not going to be the see the most of us that we have in the state as well to acted as i'm setting up a good guy. the more you know,

you think that she wasn't sure whether it's one time a whole and i told that going to typically that she would in fact bring things together. again. gnosticism sydney, this is the office unbelievable. you don't uh, what does this you want more in the future except bring the country together, you know, like, no, no, no, he wants spa probably does cut off enough to do the follow up. does captain correct? absolutely. no doubt about back as to what a joy to come in on. on that date, the head of the african union voiced great concert over the sizing and said that there is no military solution. will it be in crisis in the countries unity based abilities of historic international stages can only be regained by peaceful means. he's wise of course, but how can it ever happen? well, i think, i mean, both of us already part of the issue that needs these groups, whether the rest of the east, where they called himself. and i mean, a pretense, i mean, i mean, or whether they're in the west and they've called themselves revolutionary

revolution was a long time ago. so for the most part, there are criminal, this criminal intent, a certainty autonomy to do what they want to do when they want to do. and for him, they want to do that for him. but i want to whitewash all of these pictures, not all the on groups the that not on the on groups the full over the last 10 years have just come into many or just fearful of going back to the years that were rolled. i'm thinking definitely that one of the time some of drew, i certainly believe an uncertainty conscious of the fact that much more times a and is engaged with the 5 plus 5. i mean, the last several months has made those points. i started, i think that he's the only one that i think is a good example of someone that has made those points. there's part of the infrastructure, but the reason what they're doing is that the foreign ministry starts us with the color and millishape break up. i believe, yes, they have a play. nivia is not compatible with the unified states. so i'm not compatible with a democratic slide because i'm not neutral. supp, serbian bodies that will serve an elective government. that being calibrated to be controlled by the police officer and the he store of time in the,

in the west or whichever political entrepeneur service has happened to the card. they need to start from the building block. and the solution that you're asking for really, is to destroy and disrupt, or the very least try to reform these bodies. but the reality is that you're going to get anywhere unless you try to disrupt these buttons to apply them together. city, state militias in the cities that months old was mentioning the areas that i might have been talking about, but each burial, each part i thought of tripoli itself was a great a triplet. take me a re, is controlled by the shots. that is not, that is not consistent with, with the kind of army in neutral surfaces of security services that would be compatible with the like the government. and if we think of it that way, they want to be compatible with governments that are appointed by these. but is it going to, bernard, is that you want to start from, from a really, i'm not the listing. the button is idealistic because the u, as in trying to work towards the end of trying to is in a scratch the surface clean and start with a fresh mutual military force. and a neutral police service is working with what is already got. it's working with got

groups, the sympathies are and legions is and is trying to calibrate them. so was these leadership and that's not going to work in the long run front of us. so i would certainly say that, but i think putting your finger on the pulse, the responsibility that was on to you and to build the architecture for that. so not but the size is ministry tracks that are the kinds of unified 2 different groups that are not consistent with each other. the 2nd does that you can't. busy bring them around an a point of government that would be a 7th of the last decade. it doesn't mean that it needs an electric government to an option in the bins are waiting for that. and in terms of, of separation, i would catch that on there also and the groups that, but whatever that they might know, it's a groups. my son is now minority groups that have done this. i think it's linked to the just the minister of our lives and tripoli. i mean, we shouldn't from right, we should. we shouldn't forget that the parliament in the east was burned down in some upright tests. and as the parliament that decides when or when we don't have elections based on the election laws based on the constitutional basis, the 2 most things that we can have elections. everyone else is at the factor. but

these are, these are the main structural causes that are impeding this progress forward. and as the i read it today that if we think that we're going to get as the libyans in a personal capacity, or if you think that we're going to get state hubs for eastern libya or west them to be a good in line of un security again, so you have many, many groups of 4, you might need even the end of the sequence and the best separate this might be a head of the libyans or don't have a national cause. when it comes down to what they ask for the groups, the screaming the loudest us for oil cost was switched to the main office. busy busy we recognized nationally in a, it's a lot of, it's an indication that the international community has actually failed. as far as libya is concerned. it is the outside world interested enough in libya. what more could should it be doing you being cases? definitely one of serial failures of the, of the international community. and in a definitive case of you when i would say fabian multilateralism said you're uh

overtime since says 20 since 2011 essentially. so it's been a downward trends in a spinal spiraling trend for people. they're into violence, i would single out the, the chair and the doctor, the special represent the, the secretary general as be i would what i would call diplomatically a very complacent, in terms of how this mediation has gone next. if any, over the political process, the political process now is in shambles, there is absolutely no direction to it that you, when is a, the main main talking point is district towards the cost of board of elections with little to no actual about the, i guess. but i, i just want to point point out that, i mean, he's not here to defend himself here. so i mean, i want to make that, that, that point clear, but yes, carry on. absolutely. but i do think he's been in listening mode far too long. so you clearly see him doing field visits and actually doing some of the work that

would pave the way for something. but every time you wait on actually something to be formalized in a dialogue to be institutionalized. there hasn't been much there. so, and that leaves the, the country to be preyed upon by the, for the very forces that we're talking about here, eating military actors, the political, interpret noise that don't have the country's best interest at heart. so it's no surprise that none of them are really supportive of actual election. and as a band i suffered because for the past 10 to 12 years, they dominate the, the, the scene. and they know that people are fed up with them. in most cases, at least for the parliament in the high state council and some of the controversial figures and that they would never be voted that. so it's, it's a very honestly frustrating cycle for a month for a lot of people. and now the bar is so low that they are very happy with a small, like very basic things. the very,

very basic stability and very artificial stability is that the current government is, is, is providing or the government of national unity. however, the stability as pointed out by these classes can sometimes be in the loop because what with this government is, is doing is it's essentially attempting to recreate duffy system, revenue distribution, a lot of handouts, a lot of a social safety nets. a lot of patriots, not the patronage structures, a lot of corruption, but it's trying to recreate that with a very different security system with no monopoly on. but so you have these tensions that will ultimately roll between the groups, particularly in western libya. but this is as valid for western libby as it is for eastern libya, because i do think that in eastern libya, pensions between a private controls or structures in the east are very much there with the governing structures. from a security standpoint, i. e, heavy for how for and his sons,

therefore, yeah, this illusion of stability has to, at some point on russell and the con, rustling will unfortunately be violent if there is no meaningful political direction for or in house that, for people to actually discuss, cast their votes, ideally, and they liked who they want, and this isn't the say, the elections will be a policy either. they need to be properly regulated. there needs to be an accompanying particularly security bind in order for them not to be re. we'd also want to end up in a 11 unlike scenario where we have arm group leaders and relatives as long as we have selected. okay, i, i will come on to election suggested by the 1st month. so i just wanna to the question i put to him in, at the, on his head, when i said he's the outside world interested enough in, in, in libya and all that actually, to many people meddling and live benefits at the moment. we mentioned uh, fraud, steve, a russia, uh turkey. i mean the other just the just too many people uh,

missing in libby and a fast a yes. the for the, with the out of had this out of the, among, out of the buckles in them. and i mean, they, the different, again, 0 sylvia the, and saudis, against the junction there, it's unbelievable the same thing with libya. what, what does it all have to do the? well, i'm going to have to go to do that. i'll tell you, i mean you, after a really buddy perform the question and this is that you wouldn't be the best player. so yes, i think it would be the move of that to me, not being united nations and the prosecutors a whole really acts like a i called them but, but my put my tongue, put them is that if you marry my mother, i told you dad in this case no, as long as i have a government that i can talk with doesn't matter what kind of government is this, it can be to the 2nd to to what this is mrs. flores. this is an overall way of

looking at things. i mean, i was just an accomplice the sometime ago i stephanie williams junior high and relation to say, we have to have elections. that's what's having elections. i want to have a we have a service coming and coming power. i mean, the bank has no quarter the gauges to be a prime is the be what do you want the model number 23 in the say, i mean you have individuals for the key. no, no this, there's no sense that this belongs to me is i killed a bunch of numbers. don't care about why they actually did not do that either. so what does that asked the when i had hoped that most delays elections could have been held this year due to the relative stability in the country. and is there any chance of that happening anytime soon? do you think the rules of the game of rigs in this election because the system

itself has been rig so allows for these dr. appalling names that continue to claim that arrivals, but has conspired the spot conflict despite compet of to, despite what many of oblivious conflicts of looked like. all of these different enemies that come together in the anesthesia benefits, not just friends with the benefits that individual difficult to be. individual benefits, somebody, they should have the spoils and they continue to allow you to, to run around this. mary got around with the illusion that because they caught, i agreed to elections. i think on happens then. it wasn't going to have a unity. government is quite curious that they can use the for the interest when it comes to sharing the spoils of war. when they call you into further interest when you have to let go a power. that is, that is the, the irony of the case today. and i think when it comes to the libyans, malik, it's quite interesting that was a poll done by doing research at the end of 2021, towards the, towards the deadline. and the 24th of december elections. and the so interesting the, i don't know if i got 14 percent they got more than most of the candidates the have

said they, i guess all at the end of the problem and go one of the office and less than one percent. rather paper sort of a strong ment of the west, someone to help us on the behalf that despite can. busy decent libya and running and then everyone starts kind of getting more than a certain percent. that's the irony to all of these individuals know. even if they were to stand for elections with enough time, they wouldn't get cost as far as so i think maybe in the desperate for a choice to move forward. but the system is written against. okay. and then you went into the system to direct against them. it's a shame. all right, i have a very quick concept for you. i'm from you, but i, we've got about a minute left. i'm in no elections any time soon as i, i agree essentially there wouldn't be any elections any time soon. i talked about this because of what time was mentioned in terms of the system being would. what is worrying, however, is the increase and i would say the level, the both the on groups and the politicians now now live in a lot of the links that existed between the on the arm groups where at some point close at the civilians. today with these types of glasses that you see with that we

use of heavy weaponry, et cetera, you click, do you see that, that, those links are sub, have been separate to even in the areas where they have that were revolutionized phone go because are all right that's okay, months of that final question to you, the libyans have any cause for hope right now that that, that things will get better hope is always there, but it seems continues to be, oh, nothing else. i mean give you the situation on the ground. i don't see much feature anymore. this is, i'm sorry to say this, but this is the reality. it's, oh no, i'm wrong, nothing, nothing reason to just see the country come together. but now with the countries changed for is for the, for 2 years that the previous dictator had that, that already spent. and now we pay is due. okay? and this is, this is what we have gentlemen, that we've attended manufacturing day to. it will on us a democracy in my body and months. so l t, she'll even see the program again at any time by going to the websites of i'll just

hear a dot com for the discussion. join us about facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash h a inside story out. of course you can join the conversation on x fully notice twitter handle of a inside story from the adrian for the good of the team here. and though, huh, thanks for watching. we'll see you again. the the, as a i driven robots become more intelligent and more a ton. and this will lead out smart us. do you think you could from the world one day if i ever decided to take on the world?

i'm sure i do a great job. robots never get tired of sophia, one of the world's most advanced human like robots, and i'll be talking to algebra. a diverse range of stories from across the globe, from the perspective of on netflix, john and analogies. era times to 6 tours in trade has found this back up to this label pandemic during travelers from around one and one east investigates how wonderful children are islands, child sex tourism industry. g 0 a just a nother fire that had been a rather large across the country for days yesterday and the business good. my entire life fire fighters,

they're saying that there's very little they can do with these extremely heavy with all the world and focusing a lot on the tourist. the local, real desperation here about how much they've lost 35 square kilometer as of last greenforest and woodland has been burned, really does resemble and don't want to get in landscape the west african defense chief to hold the final day of meetings in the coming hours to discuss military action against these is june, the cloud business out there life and how old is it coming? you know, evacuation order is issued for 20000 people in kind of as north west territories as well for us for us and community rushes that.