brookdale currency all the way to a federal financial system because open source software, we take trade or money without banks or government award winning filmmaker toast and huffman looked at all sides of the complex crypto crypto. the big queen looked james and the engine on ocean sarah in the west pilots in libya, and he doesn't care well the officer come on the oven home. the group is detained. 5 rivals. the country remains divided scott by rule of instability can libya as a united in peace again, watts is its political future. this is inside story, the other welcome to the program. i'm adrian sending an libby as late as such and

violent seems to have settled down. but it once again underlines the countries instability. there's deep concern internationally about this week's on rest and which dozens of people were killed and many more injured. the african union and western governments, according for peace conflict and deep division. so persistent sense while i'm a good off, he was overthrown 12 years ago. so what's next for the be a candle divided nation f a b re unites has a booklet take to restore peace. we'll discuss all this with our guests and just a few moments, but 1st a report from car leg on the latest 5. it's an easy come on the streets of tripoli. days after the work fighting any yeah, between rival sections in libya's capital, dozens of people were killed and more than a 100 injured, a truce took hold of to one side. the special to turn forth released this man. malcolm would comes a military commander from the 4 full full brigade on group analysts say he's an

important figure in the battle for control of the country. the groups, the 2 of many involved and the stop start conflict that's play libya about exactly since a native back from adult, the top of a long time lead the market daffy in 2011 unified. and one of the countries currently split between the u. n. recognized government of national unity headed by prime minister abdul. how much out the paper in the west and another in the east, back by one or can be for half the ad on the to rival administrations compete for power through shifting alliances within the groups on the ground debate but has issued an apology and wound against further violence who has not to be mad, i apologize to the mother's father, the sisters and brothers who lost their children, really apologize to them. all of us, libyans are not satisfied with what happened and we will not be satisfied with it. we will not be silent until we stop this matter, but 3 is often libya's warring fights agreed on

a permanent si fi. and what do you include in historic achievement? it seems there's still no sign of a lost in political solution. car leg inside story. well, as you heard, the libya has to rival administrations. here's a look at who controls was in the west, including the capital tripoli, the internationally recognized government of national unity. as in paul. it's led by prime minister abdul, how many elder pay, but that is backed by the you when it controls the area in purple on the map in the east wall or probably for half the is in power supported by a parliament into brook. he controls the areas in orange, his self styled army is backed by russia, the united arab emirates of egypt. and the rest of the country showed in great is under the control of all the armed groups as well. alexis, one of the fighting and tripling, was between 2 powerful groups, both backed by the un recognized government. the full 4 full brigade is affiliated

with the defense, but the street that is reputed to be libya as most disciplined. it controls the southern suburbs of tripoli and other areas. the special to talents force is an ultra conservative group that access the capitals police force. it controls central and eastern tripoli and the air force. all right, let's get to, i guess, joining us so that us our commodity who is the front of the director of the civic institute before it's public policy, think tank in libya from toronto with joined by e. my body. i've known residency the fellow, the middle east programs of the atlantic council, from san antonio, texas, we joined by non so l q, q, who's a professor of politics at the university of texas, san antonio, and regularly visits libya for research work. gentlemen, welcome to old and asked, let's start with you. what's the base between the full 4 full brigade and the special? the parents forces one with the laughter. i have a rest as a colonel from the full law who is multiple times a, as well then as a base as you,

but it is down to a number of different things. and i don't think it's going to be critical here. but it's a mixture of munition rivalries, you know, and strategic by those of a key territory and to be a and this backdrop, the ability to contact them to be where the heavy ma'am is not for several months of by internal thoughts between the government and tripoli, left by having to pay the $75.00. so there was right, i mean the roll was going to be $10000.00 why the reason it would be, i mean, it was initially just dismissed as, as run of the mill. you know, administrative, beef and tripoli about the territories about fighting over. isn't some of the most valuable real estates when it comes in terms of the strategic ministry and supply lines and logistical roads. into tripoli, the gates of tripoli, that's in 2019. how they bought their loans as offensive from it's also the, the, the, the, the supply routes that were used by the rival administration that was set up in 2020, to the government, the national step of the team today. that's over the last few days as being the

scene of that is of those why. the reason i think it's curious that the timing of this backdrop, whether it had been sold to the forge a new enter and government between that for me that i bought some of after that kind of political deal is, you know, just splitting up the cake box which of the on goods will remain in tripoli, who controls the valuable real estate. possibly that that has been able to spiral this discussion and the most valuable real estate is the old international app that is looking to be launched or re launched in the next several months. which is in the south of tripoli. i'm would move the center of gravity from my ticket, apple, where the as the after the 1st group, the rest of the kind of i'm in terms of an intricately, it would move to some sort of gravity and influence in the capital towards the side us and an area that the full full traditionally tackle that the stronghold, and it's an area that they have been trying to negotiate with the government of national, easy over that control for the future. so it's a mixture of all those different rivalries much more times that should be said, there's also

a lot. and as you have to figure out he's been involved in some of these joint minutes results. and that'd be led by the un over the last year. 2 years and he has made his, his opinions quite clear about his position over half the, when the find him was getting very insensitive of the last few days. we heard of rumors of different on groups coming from minnesota, coming from different pockets around the country. many of whom are all side and you have to think isn't it? is thought the spiral from one of those top bottles. and so a 1000 look like it was going to be a repeat of, of 2019. so i think it's, it's curious timing, imap. what, what do you make of it the or do you agree with with us the same groups? question may this year by the time the injuries but no deaths. this time, last year, 32 people were killed in tripoli when groups i lied to the the, to rival administrations for this. this week's violence of me to bear any similarity to that or, or as i asked was saying, is this just part of a tough war?

and it's complicated, i think, yeah, you can not dissociate things from the political complex and the overarching dynamics that are at a national level. however, in terms of these classes and in particular, i think there's no direct cause the link between what is what was happening at the national level in terms of dialogues and positions on softer and on his thumbs up, thumbs up on negotiations with the government of national unities by minutes, the, i mean today, but his relative i do think that there are much more local tripoli, triple obtaining and dynamics that play as in western living and dynamics that play in terms of the uh and, but those for these classes in particular the for for, for brigade had as had tensions with the s d a for quite a long time. no, not just because of the airport or the triple international air board opening, etc. but also because the very fact that more times that was formerly a commander of the us, the and effected from b s b as effectively after the tripoli war established quite successfully. some may

argue his own by his own brigade, but no controls. strategic territory has carved itself a role, not just in terms of security enforcement, but political dialogues, etc. i wouldn't say that any of the players in western libya right now have a very clear the and the foster stands. i think a lot of them actually are pretty much looking at marginalizing opponents, vanquishing them, absorbing them in some cases. and this is both of both the case for the as the, the special, the transport, and more times the maybe the only fact maybe the only fact that differentiate more times as group is the fact that it's footprint does indeed extend beyond aaa. so as opposed to the mazda sop around the most groups in west or libya, it has several branches in white, strategic cities like many worthy like that are going to and he has even had a,

it's on patrol, setup bench with foot cetera. so you clearly see that it's an encroaching on areas for addition to the, the are and the point of view of the triple, the tiny and goose or western includes from western libya. and so i think that is what has partly plays into the tensions with the sds, and that's what, that's what part the, the, the glasses now, this isn't the discount the fact that these pensions and the now kind of clear cut rivalry between these 2 groups will not be a politically and whether nice by other actors they can leverage those pensions but, but in terms of the causes of link, there wasn't anything there yesterday that lends itself to this adjustment that base was the sort of conspiracy of or, or gets paid by anyone in the back or months, so given what, what the amount is just said, what does it say about the state of, of the country the here you have to on the functions buying for influence. some control open. lovely, a piece that kept the piece for the last year,

and yet they can fight each other with a heavy weaponry in a densely populated area of the captive, the capital city. a. i c, i, i want to commend this gentleman. the 2nd one who said that he said, because i think he had his rights on, on, on the neighborhood. that is very, very right. it is not really so much tied to the doctors as much as the type, the majority and too tough to. yeah. you have oh yeah, that will between songs and tripoli, this is, this is new. it's been going on the both of those on, on the page really what do you mean? what do you have then time huge company. if it's just tough areas within, within the west, this is causing much of this it's, it's a huge problem. so going to go with the drug. so it's been going on for 446700 years. you know, i'm getting better getting something for a while. but know too much, again with each side of having the issues you have,

you have the issues, you're having the how many minutes just to have the police say, you know, the department is they that can go to that. then you can go to the gym. i go there as a prime minister in those areas which it was okay for security because he has no control and go with that. yes, it is. this is a big part of the fragmentation to say, phase of thinking back today is really come from any type of unity in the country. i mean basically, i think this is up to come to the organization that perhaps the not meant to be together and some of those that i'm sorry to say that, but this is the feel the glass surface. so that's all you know. do you think that you think that the libya is perhaps destined to, to, to split, to, to, to be 2 separate countries that but, but there's no hope for united libya. i'm sorry to say that i think this is where

said they would be going to go for 12 years and this and this and the more and the more it goes off, the more this concept period is reinforced. i don't know. one thing for sure. i know it's sort of make at least it's a huge moment building a new merge right up with the girl for those in favor with the 3 mountain that is really beginning to pay the full separation. i really don't like this enough. we've had enough of this, we could, we, i mean this is what's happening. you have the store full between songs in the, in the, in the west. this is going to take the, to choose a country. and so i'm going to happen and the more the kind of the specs as well to if there's no, not the i'm the told me the see the most of us that we have in the state as well to acted as a sudden the guy who you know you think that she wasn't sure whether it's one time a whole and i told that going to typically that she would bring things together to

grow again. gnosticism, sydney, this is the office unbelievable. ag, rome? uh. what does this you want more in the future except bring the country together? you know what? no, no, no, he wants spa probably does cut off enough to do the follow up. does company correct? absolutely. no doubt about that's. and i still want a joy to come in on, on that date, the head of the african union voice, great concert over the sizing and said that there is no military solution. will it be in crisis in the countries? unity based ability of historic international stages can only be regained by peaceful beings. he's wise of course, but how can it ever happen? well, i think, i mean, both of us have already pointed to the issue that needs these groups, whether the rest of the east, where they called himself and how many times i mean on the, on whether they're in the west. and they've called themselves revolutionaries with the revolution was a long time ago. for the most part, there are criminal, this criminal intent, a certainty autonomy to do what they want to do when they want to do it. and for him, they want to do that for. but i want to whitewash all of these pictures,

not all of the on groups that have not only on groups for over the last 10 years have just come into many i just fearful of going back to the years that were rolled . i'm thinking definitely that one of the time some of drew, i certainly believe an uncertainty conscious of the fact that much more terms a, an engagement with the 5 plus 5. i mean, the last several months has made those points. i started, i think that he's the only one that i think is a good example of someone that has made us point is part of the infrastructure. but the reason what you're doing is that the foreign ministry starts us with the colon millichef breakup. i believe yesterday a play nivia is not compatible with the unified states. so i'm not compatible with a democratic side because i'm not neutral. such serbian bodies that will serve an elective government. that being calibrated to be controlled by the police officer and the he store of the, in the west or whichever political entrepreneur. so this has happened to the card. they need to start from the building block and of the solution that you're asking for, really, to destroy and disrupt,

or the very least try to reform these bodies. but the reality is, is that you're not going to get anywhere unless you try to disrupt these bones to apply them together. city, state militias in the cities. but months old was mentioning the areas that i might have been talking about, but each burial, each part i thought of tripoli itself was a great a triplet, tiny, a re, is controlled by the shots that is not that is not consistent with, with the kind of army in neutral services or security services that would be compatible with electric government. and if we think of it that way, they want to be compatible with governments that are appointed by these supplies are going to burn ours. if you want to start from, from a really, i'm not the listing pointing is idealistic because the u. n. as in trying to work towards the end of trying to is in a scratch the surface clean and start with a fresh mutual military force and a neutral police service. it's working with what is already got. it's working with got the groups that i've sent, but these are religion says and is trying to calibrate them towards these leadership and that's what kind of work in the long run front of us. so i would

certainly say that, but i think putting your finger on the pulse, the responsibility that was on to you and to build the architecture for that. so not, but the size is ministry tracts that are looking to unify 2 different groups that are not consistent with the color. the 2nd does that you can't. busy buy them around and a pointed government that would be a 7th of the last decade. it doesn't need that. it needs an electric government to an option in the bins a wedding for that. and in terms of of separation, i wouldn't catch that on. know there are certain the groups that but whatever that they might know, it's a groups. my son is now minority groups that have done this. i think it's linked to just the minister of monitors and tripoli. i mean, we shouldn't from right, we should. we shouldn't forget that the parliament in the east was burned down in some upright tests. and as the parliament the decides when or when we don't have elections based on the election laws based on the constitutional basis. the 2 most things that we can have elections, everyone opposite the factor, but these are, these are the main structural causes that are impeding this progress forward. and i see i read it today that if we think about going to get as the libyans in

a personal capacity, or if you think that we're going to get state hubs for eastern libby or wisdom, nivia get in line of the un security council. you have many, many groups the for, you might need even the end of the sequence. and the best separate has, might be a head of the libyans that don't have a national cause. when it comes down to what they ask for the groups, the screaming the loudest us for oil cost for us, what did you call the main office. busy busy to be recognized nationally, in that it's a lot of, it's an indication that the international community has actually failed as far as libya is concerned. or is it the outside world interested enough in libya? what more could should it be doing? you'd be, in cases, definitely want to see a real failures of the, of the international community. and in a definitive case of you, when i would say failure in multiculturalism said, you're uh, overtime since says 20 since 2011. essentially it's a, it's been a downward trends in a spinal spiraling trend for people. they're into violence. i would single out the,

the care and dr. the special ed or the, the secretary general as a be, i would. but i would call diplomatically a very complacent, a in terms of how this mediation has gone this, if any, over the political process, the political process now is in shambles. there is absolutely no direction to it that you, when is a, the main main talking point is displayed towards the cost of the board of elections with little to no actual about the i just, i, i just want to point point out that even, i mean, he's not here to defend himself here, so i mean, i want to make that that, that point clear, but yes, carry on. absolutely. but i do think he's been in listening mode far too long. so you clearly see him doing field visits and actually doing some of the work that would pave the way for something. but every time you wait on actually something to be formalized in a dial up to be institutionalized. there hasn't been much there. so,

and that leaves the, the country to be praised upon by the, for the very forces that we're talking about here. i, the military actors, the political enter bernard's that don't have the country's best interest at heart . so it's no surprise that none of them are really supportive of actual election. and as a band i suffered because for the past 10 to 12 years, they dominate the, the, the scene. and they know that people are fed up with them. in most cases, at least for the parliament in the high state council and some of the controversial figures and that they would never be voted that. so it's, it's a very honestly frustrating things like go for a month for a lot of people. and now the bar is so low that they are very happy with a small, like very basic things, the very, very basic stability and very artificial stability. and that the current government is, is, is providing or the government of national unity, oliver,

the stability as pointed out by these classes can sometimes be in the loop. because what with this government is, is doing is it's essentially attempting to recreate, duffy system, revenue distribution, a lot of handouts, a lot of a social safety. and that's a lot of patriots, not the great trend of structures, a lot of corruption, but it's trying to recreate that with a very different security system with no monopoly unplugged. and so you have these tensions that will ultimately you wrote between the groups, particularly in western libya, but this is as valid for western libby as it is for eastern libya. because i do think that an eastern look at the tensions between a private interests or structures in the east are very much there with the governing structures. from a security standpoint, i. e, heavy for how far and his sons, therefore, yeah, this illusion of stability has to, at some point on russell and the con, rumbling will unfortunately be violent if there is no meaningful political

direction for or in house, for people to actually discuss, cast their votes. ideally, and a like who they want, and this isn't the say the elections will be a policy either. they need to be properly regulate, that there needs to be an accompanying particularly security plan in order for them not to be re. we'd also want to end up in a 11 unlike scenario where we have arm group leaders and relatives as long as we've selected. okay, i, i will come on to election suggested by the 1st month. so i just want to the question i put to him at the, on its head, when i said, is the outside world interested enough in, in, in libya and all that actually, to many people middling and live benefits at the moment we mentioned, uh, fraud, steve, a russia, uh turkey. i mean the other just the just too many people uh, missing in libby in a fast yes. reminds me of the, for the, with the out of had this out of the, among, out of the buckles in them. and i mean,

they, the different, again, 0 sylvia the inside of these against the junctions. the, it's unbelievable the same thing with libya. what, what is all have to do the, what do i'm going to send it goes, how would i be able to do that? i'll tell you, i mean you, after a reading buddy performed the question, and this is telling me you wouldn't be the best plans the end. yes, i think it, i'd really like that to me. you're not being united nations. i'm the, i'm the prosecutors a whole really i like uh i called them but, but my put my tongue, put them in that if you marry my mother, i told your dad, in this case, no, as long as i have a government that i can talk with doesn't matter what kind of government to this, it can be to the 2nd to do it. this is mrs. flores, this is the overall way of looking at things. i mean, i was just an accomplice. the sometime ago i stephanie williams, julia and i hired the regional to say, well,

we have to have elections it what we have are you actions and want to be having me having service coming and coming power? i mean, the bank has no quarter the gauges to be a prime is up to the be what do you have a 23 in the say, i mean, you have individuals for the key. no, no this, there's no sense of this belongs to me. is libya, i killed her bucket and the don't care about the why the actually into the community do that either. so what does that asked the when had hoped that much to lead to elections could have been held this year due to the relative stability in the country. is there any chance of that happening anytime soon? do you think the rules of the game of rigs in this election because the system itself as being rig so allows for these dr. appalling names that continue to claim that arrivals, but has conspired the spot conflict despite competition. and despite what many of

oblivious conflicts have looked like, all of these different enemies that come together in the enemies of benefits, not just friends of the benefits that individual difficult to be. individual benefits, somebody, they should have the spoils and they continue to allow you to, to run around this married go around with the illusion that because they called i agreed to elections that they call and happen. and it wasn't going to have a unity government. it's quite curious that they can use it for the interest when it comes to sharing the spoils of war. but they call unify their interest when they have to let go a power. that is the that is the, the irony of the case today. and i think when it comes to the libyans, malik, it's quite interesting. there was a pole done by doing research at the end of 2021, towards the, towards the deadline. and the 24th of december elections. and the some interesting the, i don't know if i got 14 percent, they got more than most of the candidates that have said they, i guess all of the end of the bottom and go one of the office on less than one percent. rather for the short of the strong men of the west. so one of the hop percent kind of

a half that despite controlling decent libya and running and then everyone starts to get more than a southern percent. it's the irony. busy owner, these individuals know that if they, even if they were just on for elections with enough time, they wouldn't get cost as far as so i think maybe in the desperate for a choice to move forward. but the system is written against. okay. and then you went into the system to direct against them. it's a shame. all right, i have a very quick concept for you. i'm from you, but i, we've got about a minute left. i'm in no elections any time soon as i, i agree essentially there wouldn't be any elections any time soon. part of that, that's because of what done was mentioned in terms of the system being were what is worrying, however, is the increase. and i would say the level that both the on groups and the politicians now now live in a lot of the things that existed between the on the on groups where at some point close at the civilians to day with these types of glasses that use the wood that we use of heavy weaponry, etc. you click, do you see that, that those links are sub, have been separate to even in the areas where they have that were revolutionized

bongo because are all right, that's okay. months of that final question to you. the libyans have any goals for hope right now the things will get better. hope is always there, but it seems continues to be, oh, nothing else. i mean, give you the situation on the ground. i don't see much feature anymore. this is, i'm sorry to say this, but this is the reality. it's, oh no, i'm wrong, nothing, nothing, please. and then just see the country come together for the country and shame for it for the, for 2 years that the previous dictator had that that's already spent. and now we pay is due. okay? and this is, this is what we have gentlemen, that we've extended manufacturing to, to it will on us of democracy in my body and months. so l t, she'll even see the program again at any time by going to the websites at i'll just hear a dot com. so the discussion join us about facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash ha. inside story out. of course,

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of $10.00 desks. oh no, just the new clock into how the top stories here and al jazeera and the defense cheese from the west african block echo was holding discussions on possible military intervention in these. yeah, the meeting and gone as capital of acro. the regional officials say that ready to send troops, denisia, if diplomatic efforts to restore democracy fail charles truck for it has more from defense chief. so how we understand now have started the 2nd day of this closed. we'll meet.