oh, okay, done. no, thank you very much for the moment. daniel hawkins on correspondent with the latest the from most the is coming up to 20 gmc 11 pm in moscow and you are watching all g 0 and continuing coverage of this breaking news out of russia. where the vag mcgrooves founder you have any for goshen is reportedly dead. russian officials say he was among the passengers on a plane that crashed a few hours ago or con, recounts the latest developments surrounding precautions before to day. this is the moment the emperor at cross jet came hustling from the sky and the to be a region built in moscow or 10 people, including 3 crew members, were killed all of the water off. it was the wrong button. a minute she quit both. you've got a precaution was listed among the passengers flying for most good st. petersburg,

but there's no independent confirmation yet. that he was actually aboard. already look, report states to loud bangs were hugs, and multiple videos post on social media appeared to show the jet on saw if i move this flight rate on that shows the moment it disappeared. the main investigation department of the investigative committee of the russian federation and issue to the criminal case on the fact of an aviation accident. and it's very region on the grounds of a crime on the article 263 of the criminal code of the russian federation football, just 2 days before the guys in chad. his 1st video since the both of meet new again versus armed forces. in june, russian media reports, the 2nd page that was registered to big ocean was flying in a peculiar zig zag positive in moscow before landing. it's not yet snowed with the use on that flights. it says russian emergency services and looking at the 2 series

of possible explosion on the plane and the probing into edison systems in the region. so for h body is to be found at the size of a crash, but as yet, because his whereabouts and condition are on the lower hon onto 0. daniel hawkins is live for us in moscow. daniel, any, any official reaction from us of the oh, no reaction from what the ministry. so for the family and yet as to what exactly happened, the russian aviation will sowards, he's the russian investigative committee of confirm that looking at the possible causes of this crash. remember, just around 45 minutes ago, the open investigation into alleged violations of safety protocol effectively saying this was likely some sort of accidents or negligence, russian media reports and the, the possible causes of being looked at, including

a force upon etc, a technical malfunction. but also external influence, external force that could mean as we spoke earlier, and at defense system that could be an explosion on board at this stage, these are just theories that are being extensive by the russian investigative committee and boy emergency services. a bodies have been recovered also from the side wellness, then 8. have now been recovered. so one russian source has reported that precautions party on the board if is what had minded me to get what can have been preemptively identified officials that were saying the bodies are in such a condition. they will require dna testing to establish who exactly was on board, so we will need some time to establish exactly which individuals will not play and, and just remind us once again of who you have given you precaution, wizell is a, you know, until we have confirmation official confirmation of his death,

we still have to speak about him in the present tense and his role within russia and the russian establishment. i'm just going back briefly to the official confirmation. we all are getting use now from reading all of us, the russian, the state me back and see what you're saying. according to the russian aviation, or thirty's, they all confirming that you've got a promotion was on board that probably must has come through from a rushing media sol as is citing russian aviation all thirty's. they had to miss from his presence on the passenger list. when this news broke, the confirming, now he was on board that play and given that the most of why was at the side of the crush, and we can get the, the conclusion from the precaution was killed in misprint cross, that's according to russian state media sites. and russian aviation authorities going back to question about the figure of precaution. suddenly he went one could

say from he wrote to 0 in the eyes of rational thirty's. what's the very close? i like all vladimir puts in his if you go back to the ninety's in st. petersburg and businessman, he became well known as the founder of the vault and literature group which made it aim for itself in ukraine is a very effective and efficient fighting force, including tens of thousands of convicts of for the so cool such submitted to oppression in ukraine that relationship between for goshen and the russian talk perhaps quite come on. the defense minister saga show a good general harass them of the chief of staff at the time, very quickly, solid precaution was highly critical of the way this conflict was being conducted, accusing those ha, ranking officials of corruption of incompetence of negligence. really getting away with saying things that other people simply didn't say simply couldn't get away with saying a not culminated 2 months to the day in his meets any attempts and which he very

quickly took over and all the hits q and the safety of rust off before very quickly move to go to moscow within striking distance of moscow before standing down. ok, daniel, thank you very much for that, daniel hawkins with the late stay for moscow. and daniel, just now telling us that in the last few minutes, russian state media, citing russian edition officials have said that uh you have any promotion was indeed on board that claim that went down just outside of moscow just a few hours ago. so it would seem, uh, official confirmation now from uh, rush and state media that you have any precaution has indeed been killed already i spoke to 2nd. my calls was a former public spokesman for present 14, and he believes that ukrainian authorities may be behind the attack in the city. we have some bonnet, it's a occasional connection. i think the decision, nobody video was this. uh 2nd guess on is that that it's uh, uh, had been

a good night bye. you could and, and i sort of just because these uh would be a gift from the ukraine because of, uh, 2 more independence day. well, 5 grade and sort of restaurants that it could be organized as that are launched by that action. uh so it is so specifically defense minutes instead of a show, a girl who was or is it right back to the list for some reason? i know you're getting if it was and for what it even while you, which i'm but isn't the last i assume. so i support the 2nd edition is that it was, uh, i just got back to the full file you put in. and i sort of just because what you're putting in the sort of just if you're getting, if it was in the box and the girl wasn't very deep and embarrassed and it's a very big cop successful box this. the jetta subpacket is very big, successful people. and, and that's what it would be the $2.00 oh $5.00 is that, that you see. awesome. i sort of just like i might as this exist,

but it's not to be because i'll call, well let me put you on most of your choice, but you're getting it from your from. ready of not as a program at all, because i sees a, i sees a button, there's room could been diminish, substance abuse in 3 in 10 times. it's one uh 2nd today. and if i should, i sort of just like i like this, like we'll deal russian pilots. what was this jeff was absolutely not guilty about anything. so more appropriate visit that you claim, you know, sort of because it's freight you're getting it because you can't sort of just made o'clock got a group as a phase and very much lead springing correspondent in keeping all you create is capital rob mcbride, rob, so i'm in moscow, pointing the finger of blame at ukraine. what's the reaction from this of the, i mean, the view here in ukraine would be that the russians would say that one day as far

as the ukrainians are concerned, this has the fingerprints of the russian, the to ship all over it. we data is being followed extremely closely here. obviously there is no love lost for you. have got any pretty, goes in a given his track record of what his wagner group has been doing here on ukrainian that type of traits. but i think of the people here in ukraine will be extremely interesting to see it states as see what happens next. does this, harold, another period of peebles in russian society between the russian ranks of the, the russian military and different factions with it, as we saw a 2 months ago. and the think that it does go to impact the effectiveness of the russian military, especially when it comes to waging its will here in ukraine, that is obviously of intense interest at hearing key of in the end ukrainian capital. we've had some reaction from the b. kyle, put the yeah. key is a,

an advisor to the office of let them is a lensky, the ukranian president saying that basically pre goshen signed his own das warrants when he entered into an agreement with fellow roo, set for the relocation of these policies that to stuff he's much all must go 2 months ago and also entering into an agreement with why they may have polluted, saying that this is the kind of treatment you can expect if you place your trust in such a man saying that this is puritans way. according to this advice of a sending a warning to the, to the leads in russia that you do not cross with a russian precedent. saying that this loyalty, according to this adviser equals death. remind is rob of wagner's role in ukraine is forces with forshaw in, in the russian offensive, especially in back moment. yeah, that's right. i mean, they made a name here on the eastern front, taking over the,

making it that quest to take this one state t all that back move to relatively in consequential city. but it did become something of a symbol for both sides. it has to be set as good. as wagner pulled more and more of its troops, controversial troops, many of them a convicts recruited from prisons throughout russia or in this meat grinder of an operation. much against matthew, west and advice of ukrainian forces did the site and they matched uh the, the, the efforts being put in by father, again committing its forces uh with that with a very high desperate on the monks, ukrainians, a service personnel. but with the following the logic that yes, we are losing. so just but less, they are losing more as an us. and that this a way of trying to believe the russian military. we have to go through with this baffled, even though it is costly to our own forces. so that was this me quite different operation. that is now when did we know that the forces have pulled out?

some of them have been recruited under contracts with the russian military. uh, that'd be really okay to develop the roost, which is still of a concern here in ukraine whether they could ever be put to use again against the ukrainian forces. but i think it's also interesting people are very uh, interested in the all the people that were on display and about the wagner lead as the leaders of the boss. no group, not only precaution, is this go to cause some sort of backlash from the valves around the default, the rights that still exists, because there are still large elements of the fog, the forces we know that they launch this. it will face a mutiny 2 months ago. is it going to lead to some other sort of peebles now, which is going to impact the russian military capabilities on the battlefields here in ukraine? thank you for that. rob mcbride live there in keith with the, the latest reaction from that. and he now is andras, here is to meet your metabolic met, the dental who's been taking

a closer look at the wagner group and the mind behind it all. a real good product. you have any precautions rose to power and russia from humble beginnings and st. petersburg. after being jailed for 9 years for robbery and fraud. he became a hot dog salesman, and then the man known as putin's chef is catering company hosted events for foreign leaders as well as president vladimir putin, his private birthday parties. and it wasn't until 2022. the precaution admitted that he had found at the wagon a private military company 8 years earlier in eastern ukraine. he previously denied all connections to the most scenary group and suit any one linking him to work that most of mary's illegal in russia, but precautions close links to prove to him and rushes. a lead allowed him to bypass the legislation and gave plausible deniability of any involvement in operations of a seat, as well as ukraine. the wagner group has been links to military operations in syria since 2015 and aiden governments. combat rebel groups and the central african

republic, libya molly and so don precaution is also linked with existing military and political influence and chad, mozambique and zimbabwe has been so successful as a private so military company has become essentially a franchise. and so you have different, really, very distinct organizations that carry the same brand. it was an important force in russia's invasion of ukraine, including the assaults on some of the n commute. a precaution commanded up to 50000 troops in ukraine, mostly recruited from russian prisons in exchange for a pub underlined his most of mary's victories while playing down the role of the russian army. to obviously putting has created precaution regardless of a self made man. he is putting this project to create a sort of

a competitive alternative military for assuming i should to boost the effectiveness of the regular russian army or go through this later to and to open criticism with the golden didn't means his words in attacking defense minister said h, i go and chief of staff, evaluate and get us involved for under supplying his troops or not. so you can watch go by pretty positive. we have a 70 percent shortage of admonition. shelly, go, garage him up here. has come up with munition. look at the new movie that went back mode was seized in may 2023, often more than 6 months of fighting big ocean. and his men took a passive roll and the kremlin began to reign in wide, demanding the group register and report directly to the army. the golden refused, and his confrontation with russia's military leadership reached the pointing point on june 23rd. when he was accused of the mutiny entry since the reaching that but

didn't go out to 0. well, a russian state media have not confirmed that you have gave me for goshen. the leader of the back, the most scenary group was indeed on board the plane that crashed earlier this evening. in moscow there's been reaction from the us and present job. i'm saying that he's not surprised that the news i don't know for 5. what happened so far as bringing political hand in washington dc party present, biding reacting to even before the official confirmation from russian state media. give it somewhat surprising that i can probably almost guaranteed that when he said, i don't have enough information, there's been phone calls to his intelligence g saying, find out if what the kremlin is saying is in fact the true. because obviously

there's very, there's no trust between the buy demonstration and the fruit and administration. they have the. busy in the past after this mutiny of sorts, they had really tried to use it. the us advantage the ukrainians advantage say look, this gesture. busy so we can put and it shows cracks, it shows the devastation that this war has cost the president himself and oppressed conference even went so far as to say, i don't know if i were him i you can very careful of what i eat. i keep my, i am a menu and basically say nobody knows what's going to happen to prove or project right for version. and even the c i, a director william burns, said that i would not fire my food taste or i would be surprised if for gross and escapes further retribution for this. and surprisingly, because again, until these things are confirmed, the us government tends to stay pretty tight lips. we have a statement from the state department spokesperson said, and we've seen the report if confirm no one should be surprised. this disasters war

and ukraine led to a private army marching on moscow. now it would seem to this, so again, not the us, not confirming what the kremlin is saying, but they had forecasts for quite a while that they thought that it would be very unlikely that provision could escape any sort of retribution. patty, thank you for that patio. he lived there in washington dc. let's discuss all this further now with steven nicks who's regional director of for you razor at the international republican institute. he's also live from washington. steven, we've heard from russian state media. not confirming that to the leader of the back, the missionary who was indeed on board that pain that crush. what is your reaction for us? are you surprised? you know, i'm surprised at all. uh, many of us work on restaurants predicted this for some time, so it is merely confirmation that the russian federation, the kremlin, will brook notice that when it comes to the war,

your crime and further confirms but denmark who would never allow a man who she described deemed to be a traitor to the russian federation to continue to live. but well, this a bring an end you think, to the political turmoil that we've seen in russia recently? you know, fact, i think it will expand. let's review exactly why for goshen was killed. it's because he spoke the truth to the russian people about the war. you said to thanks, that the ward is a failure. and he said absent, drastic change in the military leadership and rock shop that the russian federation would lose this war. that was his death more to speak, the fruit to the russian people. so i expect more of a certainty among the russian population, more than certainly among the russian armed forces. with this news, i expect more k us and let's face it keeps on moving the gold pulse on the war

and send you crank. first of all, he said that you wouldn't be taking in 48 hours and that a russian friendly government would be installed and rolling ukraine vans. he said that they switched and they would attempt to gain more territory in the eastern new credit. then he said that russian would engage and take a data and a, an amphibious military operation. none of those things have happened. so again, great on, certainly among the rushing people, the sense that something is wrong, they sense that things aren't going well. and then with the data, so people like promotion, the deaths of other russian military officers is creating more doubt in what they're being told about this war. some of our previous guess tonight have been say that they are some other countries that could benefit from this turmoil that

yourself. you've talked about that precautions killing, could lead to and including some western countries. ukraine for example. and that the finger of blame shouldn't necessarily be directly pointed out of the criminal. what are you respond to that as well? you're saying russian pundents on social media, assigning blame to ukraine for this debt, which is nonsense. we're likely to see other rewards probably tomorrow that this was an operation conducted by nato or the united states. again, all nonsense, but this is what you're going to see portrayed in the rush media in an attempt to assign blame to others rather than the kremlin. okay, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with us. steven next regional director for you. raise you at the international republican institute. thank you for your time. thank you. let's now discuss wagner's role in

africa with nicholas hoc who is joining us from the con nick, 1st of all, any reaction from the leadership in some of these west african countries, whether in emilio, booking or 5. so to the, the recent news out of russia, there were a force close relations between russia and wagner, in particular, between of back to and russia with these, uh, military leaderships. a no reaction of yet. and that's no surprise because in multi the multi northridge and that has never admitted that they were working with the russian mercenary group, the wagner group. instead, it always talked about a collaboration with russians. now what will happen though, is a lot of uncertainty. i can assure you in bomb echo, but also in the capital of a central african republic in banking. but also in these year where there was a crew recently. and we saw a lot of those that supported this crew waiving the russian flag, hoping that wagner perhaps would step in. but what's interesting is that we now

know that because you know the spend his last few days in molly northern molly intend book to where he was in this compound. that was a, you and compound in the u. n. has one of its biggest peacekeeping operations. there they've been asked to withdraw by the molly military genta and the russians had been asked to step in. so the keys of that mentally, comp, military compact was handed to the 1000000 army and to the russian group. the wagner group, we know that pre goshen spend some time with molly and militia groups in a central molly and met with a see me going to about what was certainly a brazen act is for him to release visit video or we see him in wearing military fatigue arm and a hand in hand saying that he's there to free africans from attacks from our roof. think the other guy that and i so at the very moment in the same day that vladimir put in was addressing the brick summit in johannesburg trying perhaps to overshadow

him and the other act of defiance in, in some way. but certainly he's made a lot of friends in the back. the group has expanded in help putting in the region, but he's also made a lot of photos. uh, he's made a lot of friends, as you say, do you think make this will cause some of these countries and, and their leadership of countries like molly and booking of fossil for example, that of embrace 5. no. will it the policy caused them to reconsider this relationship? i think that wagner whiskey in trying to instill and bring russia back and ask for god, bring back. this idea that there is an alternative to western powers in the region . and it came at a time where there was a growing sentiment, perhaps fuel by the volume group itself,

of growing anti french sentiments in former french colony. so we saw one by one that we saw countries where there democratically elected governments that were close to france being toppled by soldiers that sought alliances with the wagner's group. now the latest one is of course new share. these every country where there is a us drone operation, there is 1500 french soldiers and the west do, don't want to see new share and go to the russians. and the russians have really used this a hell region to open up a new front line away from europe, the russia ukraine crisis. but in the heart of africa, putting back in place. if you watch the, the same dynamics that you had during the cold war. so vag, there is maybe it's, it's, it's head may be dead, but it's presence in the region. seems to be here to stay fully. thank you for that . nicholas hawk live there in the cost synagogue. wagner has also been

present in libya. let's for getting malik trina, who is uh in uh, ms. rosa. okay, miss rosa for us. uh so mike, uh, talk to us about wagner's role in libby is conflict as well. they've had a huge impact on the balance of power steering, maybe a, a. so we have the internationally recognized government. oh that's, that's, you know, in the west part olivia and you have for the for have too strong control, eastern libya and he, he was able to supplements has the power base. there was a help and partnership with the dresser and the back. and i mean, if you can remember it just a few months ago. yeah, we saw pictures of the in disguise in the beers and the military outcomes. and these are the flags of colors,

the national army, so they have a great relationship with the house or do the partnership factor was able to uh, try a military campaign in 2019 to try and take over a triple use. try to take over the capitals bill wants to walk into a retreated and they're still, they still maintain a strong presence in southern and central libya. so a lot of people are, are going to be interested to see what's going to happen next. and then if the, if this is the impact on the balance of power. okay, thank you for that. a monic trader in libya, the, well, let's just put all those together. take a step back and look at the implications of this latest event in russia with our senior political analyst. my one bushera was joining us from paris. we've heard now

official confirmation from russian st. media that you have guinea precaution was indeed on board. that plane that crashed. and we've talked about wagner's role and it seemed to enter on the african continent in libya. we've talked about syria, of course, in west africa way too. now for these countries that have these close and strong relationship with this most scenary group, you know, 5 minutes carefully at the what the rules in these 3 middle eastern states, libya so down and syria. and clearly the role of wagner on the side of hofstadter in libya, somebody in as done and of course has had been syria plus, so damaging, so violent, so the stabilizing to these countries, and it continues to be sold today. a lot of it because it wasn't the shuttle that crumbling policy towards these countries. but some of it also was because i can

know the status was benefiting from the likes of libya, should that as was by financial, gets won't operational, some gold mine some other ways by also going with his finances to places like to buy instead of moscow. so it was acting independently, but just as violently and has these, stabilizing me as it without an ice, probably it would continue to be. it's been a harder show it. so it has been in that sense to me, come to the project team for the course. the interest of those countries because it cited the windows, the shady fingers like half that heavy duty. and i said that clearly they've been able to go on and as long as they are there, they will probably do so. okay, more on just briefly. some of the guess that we've had on tonight, some of them have said this will only create more political term. why we've been russia. do share that view not necessarily know unless it's

also committed. that can, inc. if it wasn't kidding, i haven't been to destabilize russia, i think, put in despite everything. and i think the be probably wouldn't start losing popularity. but for the time being, he has been a popular leader because, you know, presumably as a discussion of, he was able to show that his war has back over, you know, a nationalist materialistic endeavor. and so, you know, today's when would show us what i think for the time being, he will probably continue checking it out that it's probably something where i can put in a lot of supporters in the west that have been behind that can. okay. my one, thank you very much for that mile and to show our senior political analyst said 2015 gmc, a quick recap of our top story on ology 0. this our breaking news out of russia and russian state media has confirmed that the head of the wagner missionary cool gift any precaution was indeed on board a plane that crashed just outside of moscow

a few hours ago. daniel hawkins is in the russian capital forest. daniel, bring us up to speed with the latest it was really just that russian state media have signed to be russian. the additional authority, as confirming for goes in out was among the passengers on that list, on that plane that came down in the, in the to be an old list. just about 2 hours ago. we understand also on bold up plane on that list, the passengers was brought to the old king who was one of the founders of the volume, a group of figure that was much less known that, that you're getting a precaution, avoided the live life. but nevertheless, one of the key figures in that organization as well as the heads of but me to the precaution security, we understand the rule, 10 bodies now, according to the russian media, have been recovered from the crash site. so they all, in

a bad condition when it's time as the plane, the buttons out went across stable, required dna testing to get official confirmation of course, who was on board from the emergency services. and it's unclear what exactly the future. all of the wagner group will be at this stage will understand from russian state media back in june. it was a said while the crumbling in under a promotion would be that. can you come on? the other was the group us special forces, a veteran that is yet to be confirmed, the officially little reaction will follow, no doubt, as this event, shortly has come with a shock to many in russia and will be up to speed as well. reaction efficiently comes in. thank you very much for that. daniel hawkins live there in moscow, and we'll have continuing coverage of this breaking news story on algebra with all the latest reaction and analysis in on the 13 minute. stay to next for the street.

thanks for watching a short documentary from around the world that celebrates coverage and resilience in times of tumbling out as the rest of the hi i'm sending. yeah. okay. you're going to saw this episode with the stream. by meeting eric, so eric received a gunshot wound which made him have a license that he couldn't actually use his arms. and what you're about to see is an implant going into his brain. look right now, if you don't like the side of platinum, ok, hope you have foss without one. well, the implant will allow him to do is to connect with a robot. and so now eric, who couldn't use his arms and his hands is now able to access a row board,

which will pick up cops these things around. so him do what he's working on. wasn't able to do for the 1st time. he says he is eric katrinka based on assisted so researches of the diversity of southern california shed this video. this is back in 2015. so this is not new technology, but the technology is getting so much back to. so today's episode, what does the future hold for brain employment technology? i know you have questions. i have tons of questions, but your questions, your thoughts right here, be part of today's show. catching karen and alex like it to have you on board. i'm going to ask you to very briefly into lines, introduce yourself to audience, and explain your expertise in this a brain in thought technology field. got t stats a. hi, debbie. hi everyone. um, well i am uh curt hagstrom um with sync on in synchronous

a company that's developing a bring computer interface technology. i'm a, by a medical by trade, by vertical engineer, by trade and over uh, over the last 20 years, been delivering class 3 medical devices to the, the narrow vascular market. so i'm excited to be here here and have that conversation. get to have you welcome carol. please say hello to have you as around the world. tell them who are you all what you day? hi, i'm karen ramos anger and i'm a no tech assistant strategies. and i am trained as a narrow scientist and ran a narrow ethics institute for awhile and i've recently found it, and now i've explained can do tank and run a boutique there. and so to get to have you involved, hello, hello, welcome to the stream. please grant our view is around the world. tell them who you are and what you do. hi everyone. my name is anna wexler. i'm a professor of medical ethics at the university of pennsylvania. and i run a research lab that studies the ethical, legal, and social implications of. busy advances in their assigns. all right, so

a guess i think the biggest challenge is separating ourselves from science, thought and science fiction. we have watched the movies with the side books type of somebody has a brain implant imparting the head and then they go wild and everything goes upside down. alex k all take. this is not what we're talking about. what we're talking about is brain computer interface. so b, c, i kevin, briefly in an accessible way. what does that mean? a great, thanks for asking. so a brand computer interface is really a communication device that connects the brain to an external computer. and there's 2 ways that that communication can happen. so one way is that the computer can sense electrical activity and send that to a prosthetic device. so an example you gave. so if someone could re compare who otherwise would be able to, or the device can work the other way, where can said signals for electrical activity into the brain to help the brain

function better. i want to bring into a ton is yeah, interesting what you'll doing at sink from which is trying to develop this technology so it can help people who have medical needs, physical needs. i am going to show a few people who are chatting and this is the video that you shared with us. so tell us what is happening here and why it is special that's taken up. absolutely. right. so this is an australia. and what are we saying, hey, what are we looking at? yeah, so this is, this is one of our 1st patients in australia during this switched trial. and these patients are actually able to move the use a digital environment. right now you're seeing an interface on the computer and these actions are all crated with the motor intent that they've created when their brain. and this is all being signaled with a motor and normal prospect called the sink on switch system. and so reads that

motor intent, it's almost if they had their fingers. so it's the motor intent of being able to touch and move this along the computer screen story, but them read the motor intent and then it's communicated out via infrared technology to a computer. and so the individual right there was, uh, so happy to be able to sit there and be able to communicate on that computer for the 1st time and then tell his wife that he, he loved her, which was with oh, all right, just from that standpoint. so in that instance, they were use it before that communication piece. but these technologies go well beyond if any communication i think from a utility once you be able to control that digital environment. as you can imagine, that goes to an iphone, we had our 1st patient about a month ago, control an iphone functionality. and so when you can do that, um it goes off just uh, communications a with a caregiver, but then you could do online shopping. you could communicate uh, you know, you can use social media, you can control your smart environment potentially. and so i think there's a lot of utility with what this concept of the motor neural prospect. i mean,

i think that's the big changes where it jumps from me, from science fiction. yeah. and you know, the, the sideboards to an actual medical device. and that's where, you know, were governed by the, you know, the regulatory bodies of, of the various countries and the f da here in the us. and so again, we follow the rules of the, the, you know, across 3 medical device and, and again, we're on a phase of where we were a research phase. now we're in that clinical phase, in, in, in the future of the commercial phase of the product. so very excited, i'm seeing where that evolution over the last really 40 years, right? with, with dca has taken us today. i'm curious about what you're thinking and this is part of the challenge with brian computer interface is people wiring about as thoughts being shared quite openly. so when you see some of these experiments, the development, what are you concerned about, or perhaps you're very happy about is going in the right direction. people being

very careful. yeah. so that's a great question. so when it comes to the ethics, you know, there's a few things that i think we should be thinking about and, and 1st, you know, for any medical device or, or even any drug, right? the 1st, the most basic thing you want a stablish is safety. and advocacy, right? so that's sort of the ground level ethics and, you know, these devices, these narrow technologies also raise other really interesting ethical issues such as the one you mentioned privacy, right? so what sorts of data are being captured from the brain? what can they reveal about a person's thoughts and how is that data being protected? you know, and some of these protections may fall under, you know, current medical device regulations and, and hipaa protections at least here in the u. s. right. there's certain protections for medical information, but there's other kinds of information that may not be protected by by laws like hipaa. so i think privacy is a, is a major concern, but you know, other concerns are things like the long term safety, right?

so what happens when this device is implanted for, you know, a very long time, right? we're talking 203040 years inside an individual's brain and another other top. now what does, what does it feel like recently? so then uh, at the very beginning of this, of the show eric's brain surgery. what does that feel like? do you know? do we know right now? so eric, how is the feeling? how does the disconnect that feeling? what have you seen, how and, and then i'll up and you, inc. and i think i wanted to, to share. so the way we experience our world is, is really filtered through our brain. so anyone who had had a catastrophic injury of the brain or loved one to his experience, bad or brain injury knows that your world and the way that you navigate is altered . so brain technology has this opportunity to really have this transformative therapeutic potential. so if someone like you showed there has, might have

a last have had a stroke so they can't communicate anymore. now it's enabled a social life that they didn't have before. and it was my area of work used to be parkinson's disease where we have simulators put in for people to restore movement . and i watched in the operating room as we turned on the simulator, an individual who at uncontrollable movements. these moved out with the changes in stimulation with electrical activity. and then there are people who have received that same kind of a deep brain stimulation. to alleviate intractable and treatable depression. and their report from patients barely say that actually self report, bitcoin claim being a sideboard. but at the same time would say that their humanity was actually restored. having this device, they now can live their life to the fullest and at the at best. i think that's where we're a future. we're striving for technologies that can help empower people to live their most, their full list and their best lives. so on you change last cool,

all in an hour and is listening to our conversation. and i will describe this as a nightmare. happy sea ice and night back and can be highly dangerous. pushing monitor. do you get that instant via that comes from members of the public? do you understand that and how do you address it? yeah, i think it's actually for me. um i can see the the, the concern. um, cuz i think it's whether it's the, the, the, the, the media or even within movies. you know, this is a deep tech net technology in a very, on the forefront of technology. and i think karen karen and explained it very well about some of the concerns and some of the things that we need to continuously look at as far as all this technology evolves. but when i look at, you know, this application to, to humans, we're, we're talking about a very specific population. and these are patients that are, are locked in what considered locked in. they have a less, a very progressive diseases. and this is where they, they had no longer have functions of their, their hands,

their feet such as stephen hawkings. and so this gives them that back, that independence. so when you have that type of severe paralysis, and there's actually more piece of people than you think there's over 5000000, i think that in that severe paralysis around the world. so there's a lot of people out there that i think would like to regain that independence, the individuality, be able to, can you yeah, be able to get back to their daily livings to some degree. and so when i look at that, that's where we're focused. that's what our mission is to help the very patient focused and to ensure we, we create that independence for that patient. and so i think it's a, we're a very long way from this being applied to enable body person in, in here at st. current. again we're, we're our focus, you have to go through that critical path and the, the, and the regulated path. and so it's very important that there's utility and functionality for, for patients out there. oh no. go ahead. yeah, i, i think the fear or there is that instinctual, uh, thought, like, oh, my god, right, what's gonna happen? we have b, c, i think that comes from this idea of, of a technology being able to potentially read our thoughts. and it's boring to say

that we're not there yet. we're not completely reading thoughts at the moment. but you know, i think it's also important to point out that when we think about reading thoughts it's, it's important to think about what can be inferred about us, right? now from other mean, so for example, right on my phone, right, there's location data that people can take. there's my browsing history is g mail, right? google has my e mails that have a whole profile of me. so there's so much already based on my digital trail that can be inferred about my private life, and there's currently not good protections for that sort of data. so for me, the fear actually starts there from, from, from everything that's already being gathered about me. and so i wouldn't say that privacy with brand computer interfaces is not a concern. it is a concern, but i think we have to start from, you know, all the information that's already being currently gathered about us. some of our viewers are listening to this conversation. what his conversation is saying, what is this, anything to do with it on must can new and, and can, you know, most can new. and then, cuz is one of the private companies who are looking into brian computer interface,

i'm gonna show you part of the life test that they did on november, the 30th. so a little while ago. and what you will see here is a monkey slipping on, i think it's like a been not a shake. so that's what's in its monkey's mouth. but he's going to bring an implant in his brain and he is asking for snacks. and then along comes a little tablet and he decides which that he wants to have. this is you have to believe or if this is actually happening. so you have to believe the science cuz what i'm seeing is the video. and i'm a little skeptical as to the monkey really asking for those snacks and who's to say a monkey. doesn't think about snacks every 60 seconds anyway. so i feel that the system issues every that's just because i'm, i'm probably a little bit skeptical here. but there's a, a point that came from one of our view is, who wonders about experimentation and experimenting on animals. is that

just what happens in this field of science? do expand on animals before you go to humans? i know, can you stop for sure. uh, so the answer to that is yes, usually experiment on animals before you go to humans and you usually start with a smaller moles and then you, you proceed to mammals. before you get to humans, you have to establish certain, you know, safety and reliability, even in the animal studies before you can move to humans. the reports that have come out about the animal you said narrow link i would say are concerning. and they are concerning, mostly because of the number of animals that, again, if these reports are correct, that are being used. so the number of animals that were used i, i forget the exact number in the reports, but it was far more than it's typically used in a study. another concerning point here is that there are a number of internal reports that were brought up. so there were employee complaints again, allegedly about what was going on at another link and to employees according to

again, the reports actually left the company because of concerns about how animals are being treated. so from, you know, from the outside, again, based on the investigative report, it does seem like what was happening at the narrow link was actually going a bit further. and i mean that not in a good way a bit further than what's normally done, you know, in research companies, i want to, yeah. and, and turn back to the important point that i started with to about notions of, of mind reading. i mean, i was just so is missing narrative popular mirror, narrative of mind reading and even perpetuated. i think through the, the eli mosque thing and i'm kind of fi fiction that so pervasive these days around brain uploading and downloading that. but just isn't grounded in the reality of the science of today, and we're constantly fighting against that even if that's a desire. it's not where we are. and what is mentioned by kurt and the technology

that we have for bring. ready coding which is, it is actually a really involved you asked with as a patient for to experience they experience a lot of effort. they experience a deep relationship with the research or where they have to learn how you most of us are, are very lucky and that we can just think we want to say something and it comes out without any processing or, or real effort. these patients have to really concentrate and figure out how to connect that to the technology and then get it to do what they want to. i mean this is, this sometimes can take years for some of these prosthetic devices to, to work. so it's not like there's this $1.00 to $1.00. i want to move. i want to talk this thing comes out it's, it's actually quite difficult. so we're really far from being able to do that. good . and i do actually, you know, care and it's a couple of things that i loved to make just a couple of comments around, you know, just with uh, you know, the, you on my skin. and i'm not here to comment on a narrow link at all. but what i say in general, and especially how they,

they're testing and stuff. but what i say in general, i think competition in more people that are focused on those and developing these technologies is a good thing for patients. i think at the end of the day, and so i think that just broadly speaking of, of how we're looking at this and, but we obviously have to follow the, the regulated and the rules of governance of the countries that we reside in and things like that um, as far as like how you know, how close and how reality, i think, how close we are. um, you know, our technology is, is, again, a very minimally invasive. it's a, it's not tethered to anything or a computer, anything in, in, within a short period of time. so i agree that it's almost like running about you have to train your body, thought you might do something that it doesn't say like a motor intent to run just all the it was showing animation because some of this is you kind of have to see it to really appreciate it. so we've got an added be great to me. yeah. let's, let's play this animation and then you can tell us what when looking at, cuz it really helps. here we go. yeah. yeah. so this is the, this centroid device right here that's up in the, uh,

the sinus or the vein up above the motor cortex of the brain. so then the nice thing about the defense road in the sink, crowd switch system is that we navigate up into the brain to the blood vessels. and that allows a very minimally invasive approach to apply this type of b, c. i, technology. once that is, once that recording head is in that vein above the motor cortex, we can now read those rod digital signals, motor intense signals. and matter of fact, you can see the device right here that i'm holding. so it's just like a step like device. how's it, what's in front of your face? cut. yeah. can you see it at all? put it in front of your face because we see it. yeah. very got re see it and okay. yeah, yeah, it. and so this is, it looks like a spend in spence have been used for, you know, probably the last 20 years, especially in the coronary space and stuff. so we've balance the, the technologies that are out there to be able to go through the blood vessel and read the signals from the brain. and again, within a very short period of time, we're talking weeks that the person now has the, you know,

there is some training. so we do have that like field engineers to give support to help the training to utilize the system. but it actually comes online within weeks and the patients able to do action using this utility of the system within a short period of time. again, usually within the 1st, like $3.00 to $6.00 weeks they're, they're up and running and, and able to come at least do some functionality. and i think that's where learning as we go and there's going to be more functionality. but we're excited because again, this has real utility for a fairly ugly with this technology. all right. i know you look like you've got a question, go ahead. yeah, i just wanted to underscore is i actually have no financial relationship with any companies in the space. but what's interesting about st. crohn right, is that they're, you know, one of the only companies, it's not the only company that's avoiding direct neurosurgery. so i think what they're, they're doing is, is really unique and they've actually been able to make a lot of progress that i would say in terms of clinical trials they're, they're further along then. uh, no language maybe has gotten more attention in the, in the media, but they're actually, you know, st. crohn's doing really that work on the ground in the works for this i and then

as the work. interesting, yes. count. i think that, you know, i, i think it's, we, near the end of our time, you know, lot of these technologies that you have to implants that are going to be happening in very, uh, you know, limited situations with a clinician or a researcher. and i think maybe something to be on the radar of yours or this product, this proliferation of commercially available wearable headsets in your ear pieces that claim to record brain activity. and actually the quality of most of those technologies is course it's poor. but that really hasn't impacted their sale or deployment. and despite maybe not even have accurately recording from the brain, or really being able to derive much information about the brain. there, beings, we're seeing them used in schools. we're seeing them being used in workplaces. and we've also heard reasonable concerns from parents and employers or employees. we're

wondering if there's going to be discrimination based on information that might not even be real, but spot to be real, that counties i'm right. if i might let me, let me just share this question with you cuz i have who was thinking the same thing . so do you, joe says this technology needs to be highly regulated and it should be done very strictly. is that what you're saying? that it's out there and maybe not that great at it. so ready in schools and in educational institutions to yeah, i think so right now this is something that and i said to there are some regulations that these kinds of devices that collect biological or biometric information would fall under. but it's these inferences, these, these predictions of about people and how they might behave and how they might think those are the types of things that aren't really protected yet. and there are a lot of, there's erica enter, governmental trans national efforts right now, working on looking for those gaps and regulation. but right now it's really up to the, the company and the end user. and to,

to kind of have the end user needs to have good hygiene, look through their look at what they can about their technology, all of those data policies that they can. some of them are inscrutable, that, that's a problem. and for companies to be really looking ahead at the 1st misuse that they might anticipate with their technologies and to try stay ahead of that. let me just give out or yes. one more example of what brain computer into facing can look like . and this is from a company called sent attack. and what you see here is a gentleman called tivo. he's in a french trial, as he is, has a, a brain improper which will then into face with a suit. which will mean you can see an extraordinary that tivo, who taught quote, on aided is able to walk. what else is this technology able to do for you? look ahead into the future. what's possible in a sentence,

i'm going to go to all 3 of the predict the future ada. what is possible to what's possible, i think, you know, a lot faster communication for people who need it. so we're talking about both healthy, you know, both people who need assistive technology so, so individuals are disabled, but perhaps even healthy individuals communicating right with the computer. uh, interesting cameras what is possible in the future in a sentence? i think these irreversible diseases and disorders that we've seen are going to be reversible, like we see walk again. and i also think we're going to see an inner connection for everybody between brain devices and their internet of things. home, like with alexa and all that, i, wow. alexa in our brain was possible not in your brain connected to the emergency room. i rang faster for the correction professor. and good, good. yeah,

from my perspective, what i see in the future is, you know, thought thousands of people are patients that, that have disabilities now regaining independence in multiple ways. whether it's smart, you know, controlling smart environments, mobility that was a great technology just showed in there, just communicating with loved ones and getting back that functionality in their lives. so, and i don't think it's too far off, you know, within the next 10 years, i think we're, we're targeting thousands of people being able to utilize systems such as b, c, eyes. so i'm not excited about it. it is such an exciting field of technology and development and brand computer interface technology. i'm wondering how much it may cost us and if it will be available for everybody, but at least a conversation for another day. for now, i will say thank you to cut and have an ally and use your excellent questions, really appreciate you. so you next time taking the,

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creeping into coastal areas of queensland and we are expecting to see more in the way of wet weather working its way into tasmania from the tail end of that cold front. the temperature is picking up for the likes of melbourne, cloudy conditions, but still some sunshine and sydney box box in the sunshine through to the we can this in the story for publishing the temperature of pick up towards the mid twenties. we could however, see some rain edging and as we go into the later part of the we can. and rain is a story for southern parts of south the south island in new zealand. but it does start to ease as we go into friday temp, just sitting where we expect them to be for christ church as well as oakland in the mid teens that lots of sunshine still pushing through the cloud ahead of west to whether you can see that system starting to move into the south island as we go into sas today. not the south east asia has been a very dry season across indonesia, malaysia. we're seeing one way of heavy rain from northern parts of borneo,

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