buttons and, and corruption, again, things that most people would not, would not be saying and russian public discourse. this was a very unusual anomalous thing to happen. and for that reason, many people bids you precaution with another month of affection. he will see was became a, a, a mean lot character here on the russian. and so that was people closing his fame was explained to of late in video. it was on his accusations that a defense minister saga sho, get when the head of general stuff gonna get us involved. so again, controversial devices to get here in russia, but judging from the response we've seen online and the people bring flowers to the bug, the pmc office, certainly among certain segments of the russian population, he did come on a degree of affection and understanding at the very minimum. okay, daniel hopkins, for the moment we'll leave it, beth, thanks very much. springs all the very latest lines from moscow, just to bring all of you is up to speed with what's happened just about half an

hour ago. at 16 g m t. we got 1st official blood from the kremlin regarding if get any provisions death, some 24 hours earlier from a plane crash, just north of mosca. we heard from the russian president vladimir putin who express can don't. and it says to the families of those who were killed in that plane, crushed with 10 people on the passenger list. 7 of them were presumed to be wagner . members of 3 crew that says, pretend speaking in a meeting and almost on the sidelines of that meeting, talking about progression, the 1st official would from the kremlin on the death of progression. you have got a progression, of course being the viking, a chief who a lead a short lived recently against russia's military leadership. some 2 months ago he shut down several that croft then at least the team rushes and service members which killed police instead of the time that wagner had betrayed russia and we'll

on so for it, despite allowing provision to be deployed to better routes. it did appear that he was unlocked. mine let's bring in mike kinda, he joins us now live from washington, d. c. and he's very soon off to we've heard from vladimir putin, mike, but i want to note on see if there's been any reaction the from the us to his comments. now reaction as he had president by the end remains on vacation in his late to have vacation home within the past 24 as president by didn't. and then the side said that he would not be surprised if putting was behind what happened to progression, saying that this little that happens in russia without boots and being behind the, as a history, as well to this type of comment to the last month. president biden, to somebody in no way, said jokingly, at the time that he would be careful if he would,

per goshen. what he at this stroke the off to that 5 man mutiny against the russian government. a week later off to biden's comments, the director of the c i, a william burns passed a similar comment saying that if he were a provision, he'd be careful to have a food taste. the said, within the us is generally no surprise perhaps, that there might be something lying behind precautions death rather than a straightforward plane crash, as it would appear from the evidence. and this is, in a way, a reflection of the prickly made shop, the relationship between russia and the united states. it was a report on royces la, mike suggesting that the, the us had some evidence will believed that this claim was brought down by a russian surface to air missile. a yes, no confirmation of that whatsoever. that is a, it's a single and source report is being speculation,

obviously in the media about the fact that the boot and may have been behind the killing. however, uh that is unconfirmed at the moment we off coast, following its following up no comments. initial comments from any bunch of us government, whether it be intelligence or military or political. but as i said, that all the suspicions with an intelligent circles about the capacity, what the capacity booting may have to take action against any of his opponents. and certainly there is a history in this. a number of opponents deflected may appear to have disappeared or died in mysterious circumstances. so there is not surprising perhaps that you are getting the speculation with an intelligent circles. however, no confirmation of any kind whatsoever and no indication from any us bronchial agency that there is any such assistance such a combination of such an action. okay, mike kind of brings the lice that from washington on this news. thanks very much,

mike. as i'll speak to nicholas hot teen joins us from the call and sign a goal because it goes wagner has a huge presence across the african continent. nicholas, what reaction festival have we had the from countries across africa to the news that if got any progression has died well before the speech made by letting me put me, there was a sense of, of, of anxiety among those that had business deals, or links with a bag in a group, notably in the central african republic, i spoke to some officials there. they were saying that they weren't morning, they were worried about their relationship with the bank in a group. certainly in molly, where can you and unfortunately, we seem to have lost the line to net caught. he was reporting the from senegal

and hit from car in san a goal because of course i'm talking to isaac, huge presence across the african continent. and there's a big question mark off the death of the found the if any progression as to what happens to all the flights of all the voc in a group of deploying to many different countries. so i can bring in daniel hawkins now from last scapes. talk a little bit more about this a lot because group, daniel, a button is a range of all, but it's, it's far and wide. isn't that you've got some fights is up in fella. russo with deployed the off to the deal that for go should made with putin off to its failed mutiny. and then you've got all of the, all the members of fog that spread out across the world. this yeah, i mean it's absolutely clear that the wrong, the group is a key key tool. it's a lock of the kremlin, the interest of rules and that was expressed that very, very clearly by yeah,

if guinea per goes in and is we do it from africa and what you said, this would be a business as usual football guy on the african continent they would continue this russian interest to quote, like russia great time to protect the free the for can people, the bog. the part is continue, at least as far as we know up until allowed to work with the but our russian army is trading this to raise the capacity to the fights and capability and to be a store and the sort of cool soft made segment mccolan. so officials of which continue to cite the presence of logging over i closed the publish border as they say, as a continued threat, though, it's not entirely sure how exactly that threat would materialize. given that wagner has given out for insights, heavy weapon weights, equipment, and has lost a lot of its, uh, its power soon since hey, day its peak. if you like, come around the bottom of the best moves and its recruitment off tens of thousands

of fighters from jail. it's interesting who is or is that who's come on the bottom default as will now be under because we're understanding of course, log now is a 100 disciplined organization that go to very rigid todd rocker, the whole structure. and when it's done from media reports, they have very uh, very set plans and very clear plans as to what to do if something should happen to the higher echelons all come on, which is exactly what's happened here for going on who to can being of course to figure heads up. so it's a lot of us with the walk in a sense. it's a, it's founding. we understand from media reports back in june when poets and mets were supposedly with, if can you progression with others? welcome to come on, was that he said uh they could come out of the come on to all of a sudden tunnel crossing all full. what kind of frustrating, who is a military veteran with experience and i've kind of thought instruction. yeah. who

could be an effective middle mind if you lot between involved and the criminal and would be a sort of safe power of hands. uh figure that can be trusted. um to continue volume is legacy southern boxes interests, but would not be such a lose kind of the control of c as a precaution was just how far that plan has come on. we just don't know. it's a shot at, and nobody will secrecy at the moment, but the development site on most of cells, of course, over the last 24 hours have been put e sign in about the future about the future. they've certainly released materials with conducting says about what's happened ports, right. so precaution videos along the flight is coming to the offices of st. petersburg, laying flowers, and waits and candles. but they've not said what's going to happen next. what the future is and who's in charge. so that is going to be something which a lot of people will be asking if voc that will remain as a key tool in the criminal ins. uh foreign policy interest. who exactly will be in

charge? because the other thing of course, is that partly what led reports that lead to this fail abuse any, was the wagner followed his refusal to go on to the come on to the russian m o d. they've been very reluctant to do that. so just he will be in charles now. i think that's the key question. many will be off in the wake of events over the last 24 hours. absolutely, because there was another mind isn't that who we haven't talked about very much with progression being the main front face of vol gonna, but the co found that to meet with getting who you just mentioned. but he was also believes to be on that plane. and believes have perished in that crush just so it's how impulsive he was to the vault and that groups as well. it's kind of a certainly not a, not a public's ago. he's not made any public appearances full for many, many years. he didn't seek the alarm lot, he was a public rubble rouse

a lot for gordon was and in fact to anybody not really familiar with that with news with aisd revolved and i probably wouldn't know who he was a tool, but he was also mind that had significant military experience fighting in the syria . he was highly decorated, receiving some of rough as the top a was in the kremlin, and appearing and photographs with the russian president that was confirmed by the russians folks and presidential spokesman dmitri pest golf. and he was a man, as i said, with experience in special forces and effectively you could say, be the founding father of volume, our fax, his total name was volga, and it was from his code name that said this private when it for a company got its name so it's can play the nothing to play the key role in the founding of long to pay them say will be behind the scenes a much more shadow. we figure out the production themselves. and of course we had

mentioned all boot getting him. so recorded speech by president president boots and he wasn't mentioned a testament to his lack of public life. but again, he was a, a key figure as i say. and the fact that both him and progressive, we can safely say, have perished. it will be very interesting to see who, who does coolest thoughts now, with russia's most composing and lethal fighting force and these. okay, daniel, thanks very much. we can put some of those questions too. so okay, ma, call if he's form a public spokesman for present food to an end director of institute of political studies in most go and joins us now from most go, thanks very much for being with us. so we can, i think now safely assume that is getting provision was killed in that plane crash. why? date vladimir putin takes so long to poke about it is come 24 hours off to the

death. it's because the wiring, which i, i respect the law and as you use your additional education, i think just because i'm going to decide what you want to put him, that he is a tool while to is that a lot because nobody in the world uh into think about hawks or where to put you on the, on your long was the account balances. and uh, what's your uh say look at the investigation. we should understand why there's also investigation. who deal this. uh, was it either the whole deal. uh is this uh no, i do. uh so it's the main reason i seen frank speaking is that, that uh some actually get some better to do what is that more than a style was of interest to jason. and for me is absolutely clear that you could any,

and i sort of go to the doctor so i can say it's awesome. they all suck, and that is the status of the back of us are getting pretty close to getting some s gift, who's opinions a visit escapes to the end dependence a day, or ukraine to be. uh so, but also is this of also what you say is that the key as long as it's affected to, towards the beginning, but it goes on too fast to use calculus of those a primary all you're doing. if it was on the end of the span controls that we never did such a storm fight to use, not for the region above the show as examples to all. okay. i mean, a, i'm sorry, kind words, tools, provision, and his family and the families of the all the people who died in that crash. but let's not be, be realistic, hair puts it in, had said that wagner had betrayed russia and will onset for is off to the failed me

to meet some 2 months ago. you called question the fact that you've got any promotion was a month to month. this uh, joseph. oh, you should uh do you mind effects and see if i get on that? oh, america and through american bridges and probably just made it, as of all just started to do my mice, or like even if what you know, cuz that was a reason a couple of different which of kelly daniel bar. okay. let me just ask you this, then why do you think that playing came down? i see your gloss terrace. i thought prescription. i got nice by your opinion of it, but it's not a minute to excuse me. insolent scheme. that is, that struck him as the landscape came out today. the castle gore at please say, but it wasn't us. we haven't seen thought it may appear to him coming out to say any such thing. uh, let's see what we're gonna do. many time denied 10 is uh,

is that the ukraine and i sort of just bizarre also. so tentative stuff. i could use it as my thing few miles is way for city talking nice. she didn't, i didn't or something like you just connect me a beach as ask you to talking about us. she didn't do line that's denise. i'd like to get started in the image as the gates are, these are nice. so on the stairs are far food. they're also talking nice by the way, these resiliency by mouth now in a few months or so now when the to be politically useful or is it asked. okay, i mean we've got the us unconfirmed reports, but they're all, some initial thoughts the, the plane was brought down by a russian surface to miss. oh well, what do you make of that? it just life as just lies. uh yeah, it's just slight off united states cuz that that is actually, i don't see a blood you're going to put your even didn't take that mean ross on the highest.

what are some governments only watch the 0 passions innovations only gives you any pretty good for you to really, really is us you for the finest she. what tags is there? what from here? uh, you know, she, uh you wanna put you on a towel. uh, ask her about to have to move that uh something due to the billing assets and 90 percent of them. i see in adoptions side contract, we have some different incentives that spot certain time you're getting a pretty good in the sense of what you need us to, to manual between moscow or something to work. manage. are you getting the fuck is up for russia operator or is this effects issue is what you did. this was a very important part of the middle point. you saw the agenda for the national society of these 2 masters. okay. so i came across, we've just got a sound bites of what the russian president vladimir putin actually had to say, just in the last hour. so let's take a lesson, are still considered safety hit. so look at the us for distribution incident. first

of all, i want to express my sincere condolences to the families of all the victims. it is always a tragedy. and indeed, if, as the primary data indicates that their employees were also there, i would like to note that these are people who have made a significant contribution to our common cause of fighting the neo nazi regime and ukraine. we remember this, we know, and we will not forget our new pre goals and for a very long time from the beginning of the ninety's, he was a man of difficult fate and mistakes. he had serious things in life, and he cheered the results he needed for himself. and when i asked him about it for a common cause, as in his last months, like he was a talented person, a tell him to a business man. she worked not only in our country and worked with results, but also abroad in africa. in particular. he was engaged in all gas,

precious metals and stones. there. as far as i know, she returned from africa and met some officials here. the head of the investigative committee reported to me this morning. they have already launched a preliminary investigation into this incident, and it will be carried out in full and brought to an end. there is no doubt here. let's see what the investigators say in the future. and now examinations, technical examinations and genetic ones are being carried out until this will take some time. thanks and okay, what's making does the game all coffee is to pull him a public space and for president person. and so you know, whatever puts in might say that he thinks of progression. the fact is that the voc in a fight has very many of them look strongly loyal to progression and said they do not want to fight on the russian ministry of defense. so what happens to the wagner

group now? so i am almost sure is that uh uh, yeah, 80 percent of our group was everybody assigns the context of the sections of his music search. and as they will continue to walk, say not submitted to the author and lot, 20 percent of pharmacy now 10 percent of them. find that in the office of coping different topic and countries. so for ideas, security and 10 percent of the sam walks that's threatening us for that relevant to allow me because the last and i'm a very much afraid of those ex invasion. all file for natal. uh. and because full and wants to make the site is a, it's a new one. so, so what all this happens in a few options. one options, that is an example of recommend robles who do inside of the id and did you use a label its name uh box on the able change these. oh and uh i uh, probably, uh uh, we'll see cause that uh you own

a movie. no. so populate the extra trans people, symbols, and maybe we even, we don't know the name. what was this in your, on the 2nd option is that, uh, is this, uh, barbara, uh, no problem. we'll, we'll steve's label and we'll be replaced by a nozzle. i just made it to the new name and sort option is that the e file of this fight as will be suggestive to come to that dish. busy down month telling me to just start fresh and to assign a total of them will be subject to the signed contract was an option to transmit to finish a run was also a school won't stay in the office, come come to. so this option, what's actually done with me just, we don't know yet. okay, lot of questions that still to be onset, but at least one of them has been today by vladimir putin offering condolences to the families of the people who died on that planet,

including the leader of the wagner group. if got any production that we were speaking to, so i gave him a call. thanks very much to him for joining us. that's good now uh, every time to deca incentive goal that we can speak to nicholas huck because buckner group is spread across many countries on the african confidence what nicholas has been the reaction to precautions, death a while a lot of uncertainty, certainly from the capital of molly, by my code, but from officials to and the central african republic and bank he'd, i've spoken to. they were very worried about the future of their activity in the future of their country because they relied so much and so heavily on the wagner's side here. so the dr mercenaries and the central african republic. so there was a lot of concern about what the future of their activities would be. certainly. and molly, because pre goshen was in molly and by my co just

a day before his death imagined that he was speaking to the molly another to june, to have the air n a day later, he's dead so. so the, the, the fact that vladimir putting mentioned the activities in africa saw to reassure the, the, these contracts that doctor has with these various countries and governments. but also sought to reassure those thousands of wagner's mercenaries that are active in africa. and so the mercenary activity of the value group is just the tip of the iceberg. they, they are also the value group is also a logging company. it's a mining company. they have numerous activities on the continent. and that has helped moscow to exert more influence in an area that previously only the west, the french notably where we're, we're exhorting influence. so moscow needs to back in

a group on the african continent. it plays a pivotal role, but also certain governments, the military june ties in the region that are fighting. i'm groups linked to arcada and i so need the presence of the value group. so these words from vladimir put in the fact that he mentioned the african concept that he mentioned, the activities of mining timber. 3 and those, those are really important to, to try to um, to keep those active it activities. 1 on the, on the, on the african continent. flora. okay. nick, thanks very much for bringing us to view that from africa on the confirmed death of a guinea for goshen. has been a lot of focus on wagner recently in ukraine and more on this that's bringing, rubbing the prize. he's live for us in the cave and robi hood. so game all cove in russia saying that the ukraine is responsible for the downing of this plane. and

the death, the full of event. you have got to put those in. but this is something that even just today president for them is lensky came out. got ahead of to deny. yeah, that's right. i mean, the view here in ukraine, when you have these allegations coming from moscow as well, the russians would say that within the i, this is being viewed very civically here. i think in keep this statement almost done on the statement from vladimir putin, after 24 hours of absolute silence from the criminal. and then in this carefully released the piece of footage this meeting with his senior official saying, oh yes, the accidents of that is very unfortunate. and then talking about precaution and all of them back now, lead is about the past. we all take contribution they made and about to that, that contribution over the years. uh that's uh they have done on rushes be hoff both inside russia here in ukraine, especially with a lot of the fighting that's going on here. but then also carrying forward russia's

interests abroad. it is almost as though a tutoring couldn't take notice any longer. it's almost as though it has to refer to it, but has tried to do it in such a way that it doesn't overshadow the brick summit that's being taking place in south africa. it's almost the way of the crime let it seems from here, but at least this is the kremlin, sang at yes, that has been his accident. yes, per goes into. is that and now there's nothing else to see, please move on. so it is being viewed extremely cynically, have a from ukraine. it's almost as though a precaution in the back new group was like i, i construct of, of, of the, the russian, russian overseas interest that has a, they will, that's created the monster. if you like a, that's a, became a not in consequential carrots or a russian politics. he was extremely well known, and so they have to refer to it, but they've done it. and this very carefully stage managed way. yes, a lot them is a lensky, the russian, the ukranian president has categorically denied any ukrainian involvement. uh,

i bid that clearly will not be a believed a most ago. but the view here is as load them is a legs. he says that, well, what benefit would there have been of the ukrainian involvement? it's clear, he says, whose hands were involved in this, whose fingerprints were although, but this clearly indicates him by implication that this is the work of the russian leadership of the kremlin. that's that what they have said. we heard just off to the announcements of this plane crash and when detail started to come through about the same time. last night about from the kyla a put all the ac, one of the senior advisers to the president's office here. the news that this was basically precaution had signed a das warren's when he entered into disagreement with bella roost. and also with a russian president, putin. 2 months ago to end his mutiny to agreed to send the bog. no fight is uh to

uh, yeah, the roofs and to, to back off the stuff that's march on most ago that he says, well, it was almost signing his dashboard, leading to a, to this desk. very much saying that said this is the kremlin that is behind behind the killing of promotion. robin ukraine. most of russia's victories on the battlefield because of the voc in a group. and they came out to ukraine not so long ago. so what do they have? any presence the now with tool? i guess technically, the official wagner presence on the battlefields of ukraine. uh, the, the they, they have left ukraine, the they, they left left a while back. a some of the wagner fights is it's on this, do it have a possibly signed contracts with the russian military?

although the percentage of people who have signed contracts is a dispute thing, a lot of these dogs in the fight is with people who left the russian military a full massages. i left them for what they believed was a good reason. they wanted nothing more to do with the russian military system. so to believe that a vast number of these wagner fighters of signed these contracts and going back to the russian military and now may be fighting here in ukraine on the battlefield is a hard to believe. but the yes father has actually left here, but none the less that people here have very much been following this whole story and precautions fates his apparent demise. because he is such a notable favorite because the bottle of back moved was so bloody. it was so intense, it was this neat grind of an operation of the russians, and the wagner forces putting a wave upon wave of soldiers and which was a match by the ukrainian forces, much against the advice of many western advises. they locked in,

baffled around the city of back and looked a pouring in their own forces and, and sustaining very high casualty rates amongst ukrainian soldiers. but with the understanding that look, the russians are losing more so just then we all, we may as well continue this because we're going to have to take on the. so just at some points on some possible field along this incredibly long front line, this line of contact that runs with so many hundreds of kilometers in ukraine, which is what they have done. so they, they look student baffled with. in fact, most wagner has now pulled out. it's interesting, this has been a public holiday here in ukraine its independence day, and we had been out in advance on the street. so talking to people covering this independence, david's been mocked here the 2nd independent stay that's been marked by ukraine is locked in this in this bit, a war and a people, a very non commercial about production. we've been asking about production. what do you think about.