that makes traveling a challenge we follow to drive as soon as he grapples with repass to his many books. and yet, cuz one of the few women to drive to remote villages risk in it all. i because out is there a new era for breaks nations? the 5 members of the blog type agree to invite the 6 new ones and the planning new currency arrangements and that reducing reliance on the us dollar conference reading shakeup, the wealth, political, and economic architecture. this is inside story, the other welcome to the program. i'm to clock out assignments and you have is,

but the bricks alliance has agreed to expand from 5 members to 11 by the start of next year. there might be more strength in numbers, but it's sole say, part of a drive to reduce reliance on the us dollar for trade, and it will put a rise in any time since a cold war. so what will its expansion me? well, the bridge club is comprised of 5 major emoji economies as of china, brazil, south africa, russia, and india. but is looking to move and double its membership with 6 nations invited to join in 4 months time. they include argentina, that is false, not for result is but also economic turmoil. then this is the world's largest economy. saudi arabia, africa, the 2nd most populous country, if you is got close ties with a restaurant, china, but also the united states, the others, all iran, egypt i need not to r n roots to. there was plenty more discussion to the new development bank base and show you how i plans to lend using the currency of bricks. members more co

operation with african nations has also been promised. drove are getting 5. she's trying to launch the initiative on supporting effort because industrialization on china will beto, hondas gets resources full cooperation with africa and initiative of businesses to support africa in growing it's manufacturing 6 decimals and realizing industrialization and economic diversification. our relationship with china would be one of promoting when, when outcomes based also on an important project that we have initiated, which is the africa continental feed trade area, which is going to be the engine of our economic development. while attending remotely was russian president vladimir putin,

he's wanted by the international criminal court for legible crimes and ukraine, speaking from moscow. he also promised economic support for africa to just video, what us nationalism reserving it right now. we're concluding negotiations with various african countries on these issues. we're doing so despite the obstacles created by others, in particular, illegitimate sections and pose against our exports. which complicate insurance and settlement, or african friends can rest assured that russia will always remain the reliable food supply and continued to support the countries most indeed. well, the lead is brought up issues ranging from the future breaks to pushing for solutions to equality and poverty. this is somebody is reducing the expense and modernization of brakes as a message that all the global institutions must be adapted to the changing times. this initiative can be an example for the reform of, of the 20th century global institutions after the 7. is that correct?

the energy transitions cannot replicate the exploitation relationship of the colonial past. we need solutions that diversify and add value to the production of developing countries. the most evident signal that the planet is becoming a place, and more in the quality is the growth of hunger and poverty. the. all right, so let's bring and i'll guess now from by land we have been arrows who's the found an editor in chief of be any and tell the news of business media company focusing on imagine markets from johannesburg arena. motor son, senior research, or at the institute for global dot logan, south african, a south of confirm policy specialist. i've heard by jane kind of times in china refers and less than senior fellow at the time here. institute a will welcome to all of you. a been are as if i may start with you. so breaks is here bigger and better than before. you might say a full, it's for the good you'd say the,

i think what's going on is very historic. in so much as the dealer, the books themselves is that we've been imagined. my parents may be struggling to recover sabres getting basic things in place. and this is all been happening in the last 30 years. as the socialist expand, are ended fire with glass and the soviet union, and everybody's embrace markets. so the ideology went out on the same page. and that you have 3000000 people in the west, the capitalist system, and they've been joined by 3 for them. a problem essentially system and i don't have to use these in my mouth. it's probably getting too much. now leasing a starting say we want a place that's on site or we want to have more of a say in the way the world as brian. we were our interest represented because they're under represented the sensitive things by saying us curious counsel around them in the various international buddy or. and so what they're doing now is coming

together in order to represent their interest and comments according to what they see is new to the running by the way, specifically the years after each various functions. but there's also many divisions within the brakes themselves. some of the most appropriate, this is an economic some of them like china and russia specifically wants to change the rest and be a little more aggressive um, within the group itself. and there's a lot of the center by average should be done. right? well, come onto those divisions and it might even have to, but for us arena, speaking from john, his bag for a country like south africa, what's wrong? the way things, what right now, what's wrong with the status quo, o and west and institutions like the i m f and the world back a look when you think about why the books came together. they say that the voices, when i've heard across the, you know, the global economic platforms and the infrastructure already available and for a country like south africa, that feels how currencies move immensely,

this has a means potential to make a difference. but at the same time, well, the brakes are able to come together and strive for, you know, some kind of equitable world order. it's important to remember that while the books one to to strive for a more equitable world order as a group, paying the 1st and foremost, acting in the national interest and modeling through, you know, very uncertain global realities. now for south africa, it's about how well it's able to domesticate this kind of bricks, agenda. what is it able to do with it in terms of taking these to these declarations, taking these bilateral relationships and making the best out of it. and from here we've seen, you know, 2 very key elements, you know, expansion, the last time bricks expanded, it was in 2010. what saw that for could be included. and the alternative payment systems as well, because it gave marching orders to look at what can be done and you know,

how can you look at potentially moving towards using the dollar a lot less, but creating more infrastructure for more local currencies. okay, gay will come on to that at all. you know, times in, in badging bricks is not competing with anyone said vladimir putin, president of russia. but that's not the case. is it isn't, it's all about putting bricks plus at the center of well defense creating a new world economic order. well, not exactly. i mean, let's go back a ways and talk about the g 7, g 8, whatever it was called that back then. those are supposed to be the leading nations . they were supposed to be guiding the world order it economically, etc. and then they were not useful during the economic crisis with financial crisis, 20089. so you have the emergence of the g 20. it basically to do exactly what g,

a g 7, that ga that that time could not do and then apply for what do you have is a group of middle powers group and actions denied access to, you know, and any kind of the kind of economic and political power that they feel that they deserve. and there's a huge vacuum. the g 20 g 7 have not been able to come for. they were not very, very helpful when it came to the cobit and they're certainly not being very helpful when it comes to the economic problems they have here. so, you know, the breaks is a natural outcropping of countries that are united in the sense that they were all victimized by colonial ization. and if you start adding them up, it's interesting. if you take the global south and then also the central asia, you have about a $160.00 countries. but what do they have?

they have the majority of the world's resources, and they have markets and they have production. and the question then becomes, if they come together and they start doing what, you know, you had happened with opec. they could, instead of asking for, you know, hundreds of billions of dollars to deal with climate change and start demanding that they get fair price for their natural resources and for the production. interesting. yeah, it's been what do you make of that? and also this point, the fact that you know, you have china and russia loggerheads rising tensions with the united states in the west. and now breaks is, is to either countries to its team that are openly antagonistic to the west, like iran. this is just basically become, you know, 90 west them block, isn't it? not yes, not yet. i mean that's the process they've just stuff is on. is the trying to work out some modus operandi. because you know, china, russia, they need india, brazil,

and south africa less so goes on boards and brazil and india and made it very clear . and that they don't box, it has compensation with the, with the rest. and so much as they have relations good relations and investment of money. and so they sort of find out within themselves how they're going to work this and it's just the beginning of the process. i mean, we just had like a best serious discussion, but nevertheless, you know, people were loved being a breast. it was pushing for a rank to be included, a visit was pushing for us and seeing that's being created. and they're going to have this, this, the spiral group. but yes, i mean, it, it is, i think, inevitable that the guy in the class with, with some extent and as my colleague just printed out, a lot of people said, look, this do is not going to work because they don't have enough income. and i get an idea electrically or system wise, but it's not about what they have in common. it's about what they control and between the is specialize at control of them. and the addition of study riley was

particularly significant because now the, they need the banks plus control 42 percent as well, low production. and they were already cooperating on a commercial sense with the effect class. but now they talk pricing on a blissful level. and russia itself, controls in a huge amount of time roll materials, metals, minerals, china produce what's the controls, huge amounts of process wraps and things like the and actually bank revolution con, happen if china stuff the whole of those things back. and so the potential for a really nice thing crash is there, but i think everybody sort of, you know, as a way for. ready to try and find out how his experience work. and i think people like the stays, the going to be craft shows thing. and i have to make some sort of compromises and i'm waiting on you like i'm to find era as the imagining. well, it matches and stuff to, to mom's thing stuff to ask for his voice to be held accounted either the way it's

going to take that into account and this goes smoothly or it's not. and then it could get, i think, right, as far as bricks, internally who brings plus internally is concerned. arena. busy how, how will they avoid those classes. ready then it leads to when you've got countries of very different economies and, and very different foreign policy objectives, how can they be packing it for me to wait for a look. many have come to say that this move to include these, these countries at the moment actually got new to the power bricks politically, because it's difficult to reach the consensus at the moment. it seems that most of the geographic activity is slower to encapsulate, you know, the full potential of south america. and perhaps this could be the future strategy to look at another phase of expansion. but if you look at the clustering right now, egypt, if you, if you saw g a rapier, you a, e, you've run. this gives bricks, a kind of strategic, middle east, north africa. look, well,

these countries come with significant challenges of the elect was saying, egypt. and if you're, if you had an impasse regarding the grand if your parents, renee, since the time has done a lot of heavy lifting in terms of saudi arabia, the run to a brook has some kind of reconciliation. but this does not a raise, you know, years of competing foreign policy between saudi arabia, u, a e, and the run in the region, even argentina, and not every are you ready to relations, have been immensely tense, but bringing in one or 2 without the other isolates another or the other potentially pushing them to take the stabilizing decisions for the region a few so well, from one perspective, the brakes could be moving to have a strong good economic impetus. but what if or does this sort of a strategic decision to shift attention away from the end of the pacific,

for example, as an anticipated, they're to play at least for the next few years to come. and you, so, you know, the proposition of indonesia, vietnam, thailand. whereas some have intimated that they needed more time to understand, you know, the as, yeah. and implications and impacts creating some kind of brooks in the pacific anchor. as such, shifting attention back to the middle east from the in the pacific does, does contain, you know, the military industrial complex in that region. what, what's happening into critical minerals and create new markets. ida and a kind of new mention climate change. this is a very good example of the potential for differences on the face of it. we have different priorities would say at brazil, i'm with china, brazil. we're under president lula, very much pro environment and prioritizing environmental issues. china still admits you on a huge scale. is that going to be a stumbling block? or conversely, might it make china more conducive to people not being hacked to by the west?

i don't understand why you say that china is behind the wall. i mean, you know, there's a lot of things, for instance, there's always this thing that china is a built thing called plants. well, what they actually do is they'll close down to, you know, 43rd 30 or 40 coal plants and they'll build one that is much more efficient and less polluted. they're doing this as a stop gap. they have plans and as we know, china generally tends to meet any kind of uh, deadlines that they set for themselves. so i, i wouldn't be worried about that also trying to is. ready leader in the uh, electric car industry also spoke to about tags and wind energy. so they're going along the same line, this idea that they're somehow at loggerheads. i, i think is wrong. all right, let me put in a different way to 90. that's now. that's it. kind of kind of breaks plus be a full so good in the fight against climate change to yeah can, but there is

a problem. the bricks cannot have everybody joy. and the reason is, my colleagues said you dilute the decision making power. but i do think as a middle power representing these different regions, they can go back to the g 7 who have not come forward with their promises. there's a promise of a $100000000000.00 a year. this is supposed to expand over many years, only 10 percent of it has been delivered. and on that 10 percent, that's what most of the projects somehow benefit developing countries and it's dubious is whether they're actually going to produce any kind of real environmental effect. so with different entities representing these regions, they can go back and say, look you, you folks have to, you know, pony up because right now there's nobody told us, you know, the developed world accountable. think about it, you can't go the united nations. you can't go anywhere. so right now the bricks is

the best chance of getting some sort of real environmental action because they have leverage. and this is the only thing that is respected despite all the hive. a sounding rhetoric about how we believe in the rule of law in the snapshot order. the fact is, the west, especially with us lately, has been running rough shod over everybody's starting wars breaking treaties. you know, it just goes on undermining international institutions like the w t o by refusing to appoint appellate judges. so i do think that it can be a force for good. i don't see it as ideological. there's too many differences, but i do see it as a group. it remember they do have something in common. every single one of these nations was victimized by colonial ization at one point or another. so it's a actually the different grouping. all right, that brings me on to my next point because it is. let me take you back to the 1950s its uh, the original loan. the line movement was set up um,

presidents not sort of egypt present teacher then you can sloppy and present narrow india. it was quite successful, wasn't it? but then it, it turned back to the west in the 1980s. other lessons to be learned from that been my name is the 1st time, but i mean things have changed dramatically this time around. and so much is um, in other lines in those days that were relatively weak and the in a sort of and password behind the power. and what's changed now is that the whole buttons that shifted to was emerging markets and it says the robust retirement away . um however, that's 40 percent of the population and on the 25 percent in terms of gdc number. no, but if you're looking at a p p p, the parity by purchasing power, then imagine my is now richer than the developer. and i think that's the point is that like whereas she's starting to be in charge and i agree, i mean, do we all agree that there's something ideological, unites in these countries?

i think the glue of it's holding them together is a sort of enemy of the case mentality of light. we've been ignored by the rest, the well and we shouldn't be. and i think the way the science work is that, that going to be pragmatic as emerging markets that dealing with lots of problems. and i saw the question of values or ideology or philosophy. it's simply, you know, we've got things to fix the point, for example, as the currency after dollars use the donations a dollar in the world trading system, which is the result bretton woods and the i'm happy with that because that gives these days numerous amounts of power and restroom particular is the case in point in so much as suddenly it happens, or it's as complicated as being banned from the financial system unless those issues, problem, ryan, the same problem. and then china is looking at that. india is in fact, and they have very worried, at least, as well as the enemy at the gates thing comes from a process already uncomfortably sweets um the states as is around the india,

china and south africa. the other measure markets are right. we're going to have a running with the states some fine, and then will they do the same. so us, you know, compass k uh and see reserves collapse are kind of it's, i mean, mess is strong enough for tactic enough so that it can suffices but smaller countries cause and this is, i think, another reason why they were running to this, the magical though is so the double side is running to this, this break organization because they need some support. they need someone stand up to the west and represent the interest. and as my colleagues, that there's no one else to go. un is dominated by security because that i'll get you anywhere. there's no international court you can send to. and so the brakes is, is you'll turn it to oh. and it's attracting a lot of interest because of that. i know tell us about the new development banking this issue that's been is talking about head d dot our i's ation. and the plans to lend using the home country's currency for

its members to well it's, it's not theoretical anymore. i mean, or the just before the meeting the they floated around ponds. so what this does is by putting the bonds out and round, that means they'll be pay repaid and ramp, which means that it takes a normal amount of pressure off the country in question. because they don't have to worry about, you know, what's going to happen to the dollar that that's something. now, of course, those, if you're investing money from outside of the south africa and you're buying rand buttons, you do have to worry about it. but it transfers the risk to those who are more capable of doing it. investors can hedge their position, they can make decisions. whereas people who are trying to get money are generally in the lesser position because they have to take whatever comes of the fact that the rand bombs were overseas fried by many, many times. and they hit and went above their target boats very well. but there's, there's going to have to be more than just one upon rating uh,

one bond issuance. they're gonna have to have markets. they can handle this, obviously with in this, in grouping. ready have a l u, a e, which is, you know, we'd be happy to guidance on their business. obviously try it. i can do part of it . but, but, you know, there's, there's a long way to go before the, the dollarization and everything like that that's, that's a little far off. but this whole issue about hedging, about having more money directly be especially between countries that are trading. why should they be using dollars when they can trade directly in their currency to the value of the trade that they have? so there's a lot of the risk in going on, and that's the correct term. the risk thing with the financial term was never meant to be a political to okay. so say every day this is more about finding an alternative to the system rather than an alternative to the dollar. well, it's quality dollarization. it's really about creating more trust in local

currencies and in immediate sense, it is coming down to business as we're saying, you know, the dollar has been used extensively over decades. so our base liquidity, security, rees ability. so that's very much attached to it. and trade is one to make sure they receive the value they bargain for. that's why there's such, you know, trust, still placed in this and why it's expected to take a little bit longer to achieve that. but that's not to say that cost for the payment systems are already in place. some banks are already working with them. you know, they the brick stats of this into bank corp mechanism in 2010. and they, what they did was they, they create a lot of investing in regional financial services. they need front technology. so you see a lot of low hanging fruit says the bricks need is, would call them reaching for those kind of low hanging fruit and building a lot of relationships between banks. if i can forward this back to, oh,

so the africa was engaging the continental free trade area, specifically, which was part of the, the brooks summit this year. you know, this comes back to creating institutions as well, where we're africans can benefit from and in relating payments and look parentheses and building this up. you know, you have the pen african payment sites on the system. and from that, they really want to create a markets. in addition, that can flourish from these local currency. ok, so i'm just going to jump in there. i'm sorry to jump. who was just coming to the end of the program, but i just want to give you the last what the 2nd general and kind of gutierrez was in japan. his bag even echoed the bricks. longstanding cools for reform of the un security council of the i m f and the will back. going to happen anytime soon as you think briefly, if you will. i don't think so. it's going to be too difficult. i mean, the permanent members of the security council quite happy with that low,

something like that, sign in and rest. so i love being, you know, this is my representative from africa. there's one information, there's 3 from here. and um, the, the others are going to resist that because they don't want to ask the best power, which is gain very much good sports, the west i'm of the other institutions. i mean, that's going on. i think that's happening slowly. the china is busy writing. people in the general assembly and the building up a voting block. so i think with the, with the bodies themselves, we can see other people being appointed. but then it's a long slow process. and i think this whole thing with the rice, the breaks, but right at the very beginning of one se, decades to happen. but i can, i think it's inevitable, given the size of these markets feedback, right? and then the importance of the economy so that it's not speed resistance. just question of how this process works cited smoothly or you know, less than the way around people, stuff i teach. all right,

we'll have to leave with that. thank you tool. i guess to benares already know what is on and i'm talking a thank you to you for watching. you can see the program again at any time by visiting a website down to 0 dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x for me, then with a hi liz at h, a insights store for me mccloud. and the whole team here is the bus, the, the village estates, control information that's controlling the narrative to dominating the media. how

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