the time stop pushing today. keep on when we talk some entries between former president and illuminate. our pause our people see these these for themselves and make up their own minds to sweden. this become a thing to turn your back against announcing groundbreaking stories from award winning. for my case, it's actually in order to one and from conflict. it's a more efficient when someone conflict sweetness on which is 0. it will be a compromise on its brand renaissance. then you had another meeting is held with the defensive. and how does auto buy in system for them will form its neighbors would, would accept the binding agreement. and what were the long term consequences of this fam piece? this is inside the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much i'm june, egypt. if you help you and sedan are back at the negotiating table there, hoping to resolve a years long dispute over ethiopians. multi $1000000000.00 hydro electric dam on the blue nile sedan and egypt for worried the dam will limit their own water supply and pose, and existential thread for generations to come. all 3 countries are heavily invested in this issue. and here's why. the blue nile in ethiopia flow is north and meets the whiten island sedans. capital have thrown the waters then merged into the river nile and flow further north into egypt. providing most of the country's water in egypt is pushing for a legally binding agreement. but for years, if you help, you has remained defiant. so what can you do if these negotiations fail? and how is extreme weather affecting all this will explore these issues with, i guess in a moment, the 1st this report by katya lopez, where they got this 4 point, $6000000000.00 dam is

a source of pride for e. p o, p, a. and a source of worry for sudan in egypt. their main concern is how it will affect their water supply. after a 2 year standstill negotiations among the 3 nations have resumed in cairo, they include talks on how the grand ethiopia and renaissance dam on the blue nile is filled and operate meetings like this one between each of us president. after the fact i'd cc any p o b as prime minister, i'll be ok met last month, appear to have eased tensions. but not all. both are hoping to reach a deal before the year ends. although ethiopia sam affects both sudan and egypt, cairo has been the most outspoken. it says it's livelihood and economic existence. does that sink from the higher end? it will look with any. ultimately,

i'm wanting our brothers and ethiopia as to not touch a drop of egypt. water because all the options are open, looked at the nile originates and the po, po, and about 90 percent of egypt. water comes from the river. it's crucial for its population of more than a 100000000 people and its agriculture. now extreme weather conditions and droughts are fueling concerns. private and public dates. over the years, ethiopia has assisted them. the electricity a produces and the jobs that will generate will benefit the entire region. but tensions increased when a, b, o. b is government begin feeling the dams reservoir before reaching an agreement with its neighbors. a deal was signed in 2015 to share the waters of the nile. but 8 years on all 3 countries have new concerns, including how to safeguard their rights to those waters. and their supplies, katia,

look this up again for insights, story the alright for more on all this i'm joined by our guests and addis ababa is jo, myself. she, professor of water resources and engineering an artist abo by university. he's also an advisor to the ethiopian negotiating team in cairo is sorry, kira founder and director of the european north african center for research and in london is alignment along as also president of the world association for sustainable development and director of the middle eastern knowledge economy institute a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. you might let me start with you today before this latest round of talks, egypt in ethiopia had said that they want to finalize a deal within 4 months. so what is different this time, and is there actual political willpower that that would enable a deal to actually be reached?

i thank you very much for inviting for these show for uh, you know, the 3 countries uh, the tire we 9 uh and uh, and really the ones, the issue to be sort of the ultimate. so this is the most common we but the energy is uh, why don't we use the coffee monitoring on route. so let me ask you, uh, your take on all of this, from your vantage point. i mean, obviously this has been a years long dispute when it comes to the grand renaissance. damn. the party is right now are expressing optimism. they are expressing commitment to the, hopefully the success of the negotiating process. but, but what exactly has changed here this time? i mean, is there really a reason to be expressing this kind of optimism at this moment?

well, speaking of optimism and a debt cause long or more for negotiations between the if you can card and different board in regards to deny river. well, as you mentioned in the report or a, it's been mentioned that we are pressuring egypt as pressuring for a binding agreement from the if you pm ford. but unfortunately, the intake about yesterday is negotiation that has been very hard and investigations. and i don't think there is a lot of political power from that if you'd be employed to reach a binding agreement or at least that's the impression egypt is getting as well as the addiction. it's not egypt only as they, as addictions, a well, we are seeking peaceful cooperation and a binding agreement to make sure that this 5 of national security,

egypt is really secure. the optimism comes from the serious of negotiations. of course we, we've come to the table and that's up to must a cannot, okay. we come to the table and we negotiate, okay, we have treaties, binding treaties at the fact that international low is both treaties. and if we tend to change any historic treaties, i think the whole map of africa will change. so today's optimism comes from the new membership of egypt and if you get to the brakes. so that's one thing. maybe there will be a cooperative methods and make a minute to deal with that and we are not the only 2 members in the brakes that have might have elizabeth context. but the optimism to come back from the fact that this pass complete could lead to corporate to the effort. a mechanism is more than

just a crisis or a that we might to resort to any other political conflicts. and so there is a problem is i agree with that totally. but let me ask you, are the parties involved in this round of talks actually thinking that it would be possible to effect a legally binding agreement in the long term? i mean, is that something that is being considered an actual reality at this point? thank you very much for inviting me on the thank you to meet your guest. ah, no, i don't. that's all to see any of the goals. number 11 of these 3 countries as you went away or does it, is covering this on a daily basis to done is there a country in war? now we're talking about the country in the war. so it's completely out of any sinking the, all that might now is to save, that'd be born in their houses, protecting women from brand and so on. secondly, we wouldn't never going to reach a legal agreement on this ongoing dispute for nearly 10 years. now with this you'll

be because you'll be able to get this done unless where it is all the technical fives. i have called for this for many of so many of my colleagues, everyone called about this. unless we know, and we have for indeed been this investigation evaluation of inspection or the technique of fights, which means is all british and money. you want to see how it is done must be constructed. we wouldn't never reach a legal agreement because in order to reach the legal agreement and we've been discussing lawyers, we've come to discuss with them saturday for us of the week of agreement. we need to have to go to also the fittest also for the suit that needs to be born is done, is safe. it's not going to end up killing this for daddy's be able to buy from loving this also as you'll be, i've never provided a technical independent mist verify. it's also the 2nd technical also it gives you an needs which i don't think i agree with them. they need the savings, but you can find to be, i showed the water is not going to be safe on from their land because you've been

on this for almost 50 percent. we bought you for something ticket that was coming all the way up to along the front. you think it is clearly say this is going to finish their farming is going to kill their people. so unless you can independent, independent, independent, i believe it has to be done because the sam, toyota have sent me is for many years unless you will be allowed that it will never at each stage of i think we can look just doesn't need go without discussing the technical, unfortunately, but she won't be a i'm not being a many time seen. i guess you'll be in brooklyn. no, i have someone who want after the got to breast the press. this is one of my global emission is the organ i vision. i have always argued one of the fundamental for sustainable development, the value of the country is electrification. so i am actually supporting any down in africa, which would mean elected to be there's a b one, because that's the major from the office that can force the setup and doing the

optic above. at the same time. if you will be a, has shown that was a because this is the fittest or the 2nd or the same every time. so done in college sees the single bmw of trying to filter the dumb up trying to break the international law. so done is a country you know, meet, so you'll be all should have follow up on the exactly what you post them openings they are for this. i'll come. what do you think of this? what that means to our fleet persecution and grip all of that. and doing the things which they have been doing over the last one or 2 months. i don't want to go for that until i'm alone. i don't mean to interrupt you, but but you have, you have put a challenge to our guests and addis ababa and i actually also sarah has as well. so i want to give the flow right now to your mind to answer or 2 of the things that have been said, the 1st i want to ask you about your response, because i saw you react and your response to alarm when he was questioning the safety of the structure itself, what is your position on that side of the and there is very to

to know what makes you know, the difference in that of the, the 3 countries the, because the concepts us a few of the virus i want to use if drop the or cause you just go way not see the, the didn't cause us. now the, i'll, i'll put a little but i mean, it is fire the whatever alien the daughter. so they want to know the future really? oh good. this is what i mean. we have to be or numbers all much through. these are in other words yeah. there's either one, this is oh no,

not the god. obviously. the if any game or what the buyer or i know a lot of you to best way to go to drive. we need to set up with you. and so now you, me, you are, i'm also dying. did you hear me? let me also not to interrupt, but let me also ask you this because sarah had said that essentially she doesn't believe that there is political will power at ethiopia to try and resolve the dispute. so i want to get your response to that. but i also want to ask you, one of the, one of the big questions here is, would, if you will be actually accept a legally binding agreement. it, when it comes to the framework for negotiations, what is your response to that as well? yes, you are. the what we owe us was a, it's easy was to see the age of dollars, airport location,

or what does not lie. and i don't know, how does we need to what you call the system where you ask, what kind of the you're overdue. we want to show results. uh you can go in to the, you know, the method for the general manager. you need your how the we to the so the problem is like the next page is that the of the, of the 3 countries, you're not the design pro here in the office. 3 for the don't know, the doctor's office is one of the

future. the, with the, you know, what obligations you stop, this is the call me jump does, i don't think she's the easiest thing. you're only, you're not all phone guy. and he's a huge oh, you mean how, how oh, wow. okay. but in order to get, you know what this up like, a totally barber is the, the guy who's the on the way the, the lord said to the bye bye. and you shot the sonata 6, but not as good as i used to be. all right, i'm so sorry you might need to get a question to, to sarah now as well as sarah, since the guard is nearly completed now, i want to ask you how much egypt position may have shifted egypt. now essentially

trying to secure a political agreement over the time table for filling the dams reservoir and how the dam would be managed going forward. are those essentially the priorities for egypt? now, we need to guarantee that you'll be and will not hurt 170 meter of our walter. and we need a binding agreement. and we need to guarantee that if you'll be able to not break international load treaties and wherever expect the neighborhood and with respect or national security and our dependence on the 9 river for 97 percent or more of our water di. because that's our only water supply. if we are talking developments, we have our arms open for corporation and development. and our colleagues in london mentioned that it is our, oh, it is the goal of all african in general,

the development of africa. so egypt will never be at risk training, get a block in the, in the way or in the boss of development for a few p or any other african nation. but what we need is a guarantee that you'll be aware of the respect a binding agreement, or at least would have the power or the will power to reach a binding agreement with us just if you're our own and only will to resource. that's all what age be a guarantee. i've called the rate of mechanism to make sure that no hurt for if you care or for egypt or for so that of course. and that's what introduction of the said. but i cannot trust a party that does not respect international law. i'm sorry if we go class link treaties that bind, oh, i forgot to get the sense calling isn't my dear. the whole african map would change

alone in the past couple of days to dance, a military leader of the fit the headboard. honda had travel to egypt to meet with egyptian president benefit. that is c c. i want to ask you from your perspective, does that meeting have anything to do with the guard and perhaps aligning positions before these negotiations? or is it only concerning the conflict? and so that i'm also doing your best on my analyses on reading off what is going on in this, in the social media or, and then he was, but not from a specific source. i have no doubt what behind what happened information or discuss anything with, but it is easy about them because they saw many, many important and vital critical cultural issues in the abraham mind. and now about the award history done that we might assist. you don't want it every day. the kids really want being killed the suffering of disadvantaged people. this is the one of the as well. i thinking of the going,

it goes all the way to you. i've never had such a disaster. so i can't think of any guns, brittany has a c, c, or president, or i get off behind would have discuss anything to do is very nice is down on. secondly, i think i might be coming to see my, i know this is what likely to be that bridget or the cc wouldn't be discussing was jim um, behind how you've kind of helped more how you're going to get more informed in resolving this issue is to down because egypt has proven what does it last, why policies, they are good to go to the out of the really good friends. neighbors to sit down on the opposite, those you'll be in depth of this, you'll be doing all the song things. i stopped from the prime minister, so i think i don't think i told him any issues to do with the down has been discussed or wouldn't be discussed between the 2 presidents and the is really critical for saving alone. let me also ask you a getting back to the issue of the dam. i'm, can this dispute actually be solved among the 3 countries or ultimately will a,

a immediate or be needed to be involved in how would best fill that role if there is a mediator going forward? a very good question and this is a question really? i think we should focus on number one. yes, i still believe the 3 countries can sit down together, but she won't be, as my colleague said, i think i saw board and i agree with what she said as you'll be in need to show this was done on you the auditors bit, but uh, concrete politically, don't work with them, just look at what the sylvia has done over the last couple of years. 3 times at least documented even by the american government. these thoughts filling that down without even go something for that. so they have a print, the if you look at the apartment, they have a clear 3 and over the last to be 40 years of not blowing or following, or guiding or being applied. but any of the emotional they need to come clean. they

need to show that we be more who it is because they have dimension on know, and also the need to show just so that means in particular they are a company, they can trust them with the future of it may, but it has no need to prove anything to this or done as they are hosting many or so . so that means it homes that up in the space you won't be in, in the on. just look at the last 2 months is that those 2 being the prime minister is that you got the meeting moisture village go up the on the control of the. so that means government can you believe that this is a clear violation of dimension that of the nation as you come up a can you is a government statement standing insur done that they have no control over the government. and it was, it was a bizarre display. anyone could be decided. secondly, last to weeks or something that she'll be in the apartment hosting release, you know what she's coming out of it and be able to accuse by giving you like the mission. nobody should accuse melisha coming. i living be one in the new hosting

them in your country with the old position you've gone, has been reviewed by exist, so as well. i believe these are very good neighbors. they have to sit down. but if you, if you need to show a vote for is for them to sit down, you'll see you reacting. i know you want to jump in. so i'm going to go ahead and let you a. yeah, i mean we, the phone got because some is a big issue with the keys issues with all the lex, uh, now you know, my sister and brother. uh, he just got an older and talk to you later. this is really very unfortunate. yep. how does she, what we've, you know, down her last year, we don't need evaluation. we need it for a while here. we make sure that that is a given, that is not the use of we generally the are the

you don't already know anymore. some of us are, you know, this is, are, these are, these are these a lot of the things that i was usually for? okay. we all, how much less come is discussed really. all right, you met and you mentioned water sharing, but i'm sorry to interrupt. you've mentioned water showing you a couple of times, i want to ask you this because you are an advisor to the ethiopian negotiating team when it comes to all of this. one of the key questions that keeps coming up and all of this is if you would be willing to release enough water from the reservoir to help mitigate a drought down stream. so is if you will be willing to make a commitment about how much water they would release if that scenario came to pass you in one kind of going to new in the west side where the 3 countries send me to the we need, uh oh, home are, you know,

before we close the record, even though we want me to make the progress of done or did you a b, one of the reasons why we gave the we have the, you know, the nice you got the paperwork that we needed to do now these are affected by drugs. many, many times, everybody knows us economy is already got here. so we need to defend the game. so i don't, you know, our people, the, we don't need to get the, those are all medians. and this is very normal. so why we shouldn't say, let's, let's discuss the,

because not everybody is very scarce. and i, i'll go on home with the, the man and the brother. no problem, sir. what can egypt do if negotiations ultimately fail? and what would egypt do? if you cannot reach a legally binding agreement going forward, i actually, i'm impressed by the conscious mr. advisor. you say we use another right floater and we have no problem with water sharing, but we need no permission. no permission and walter sharon doesn't go along together because we sure will draw resources. you don't need water. we know that you need development and you need, you don't need water for engaged in, but we need it because our people will die if we don't have it. our farming will go

dry and everything will just go and we are already in walter poverty. so how would i trust if you get given me out, walter, according to the treaty of 99, i'm not mentioning 59 and 20 my know. ok. according to 99 agreement, how would i guarantee that if you would give me a deduction step isn't that you'll be able to give me what or if there is no binding agreement. okay. we agree there is malter sharing, but you're saying you're trying to raise water. i don't need permission from us, from the long or the longest river in the world. you do need permission. of course you need because we share the resource. of course we need permission because we respect international know and that, or why the standing treaties because that's what we're talking about. a neighborhood policy is needed, a guarantee is needed,

but those people also done in egypt would not go the thursday or where to go for. because all, if you doesn't need the permission, the word we don't need the permission. it's both and contradicted to international know, this is a, we live in a world of a corporate to an international society going more and more towards the corporation because we believe that the world can handle anymore conflicts. i will not answer that question saying the agents will resort to, to a military solution, even though i know that addictions are all over their heads in that specific 5 i can tell you, i can tell you that we really, really, very fed up with if you'll be a restraining a binding agreement, but good, good, good. so safety, sorry, from that if you imply, i'm sorry to interrupt, but we have run out of time. so we are going to have to leave the conversation

there. thank you so much to all of our guest you on my cell as she sat raquira and alarm. and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just you or dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also, during the conversation on x r handle is at a inside story for me and how much i'm drilling a whole team here by the, the the,

[000:00:00;00] the harmful passages are increasingly affecting our lives. we've terrible consequences . a documentary asks whether we've learned any lessons from the h i v as in the fight against corporate 19, we ignore the global side to port products. people want to coast time of 10 desks. oh no. just

the knowledge is the width of the and then all space seconds, of course in paul costanza spends for the probably minutes them wrong cons, appeal against a 3 year jail tab. the