the lake city and it's here, the algae 0 was weeks the italian photography, exploring the long lasting love story between the city of naples and full like on a gold mine on the left for diego, this endless unconditional. the motto donna in the on the he has completed and finds all in a sand off the military. he wants to cut ties with the former colonial power present . mcfall refuses to recognize the takeover. so how much this and this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm for the bad people. 5 weeks ago, ninja was seen as the west is most stable ally in the style region of africa. but a cool at the end of july has turn that upside down. house to president mohammed by zoom is under house arrest. the former colonial power funds refuses to recognize the military takeover. present the money in my coins. this, his ally by zoom is still the legitimate leader demonstrate as waiting russian as well as new jerry and flags wants to cut links with friends accusing it of exploitation. so how much of this end we'll talk to, i guess, in just a moment. but 1st, let's hear from nisha, and of course, wondering time a these race this account. suppose that this military base, oh no, right? having a difficult time controlling because unprecedented number of for testers proceeds the military base. yeah. in a separate, they want to move in force police to confront the french soldiers. an estimated

$1500.00 french soldiers are told to be all believed to be inside this town. and they want them out. one of the main uh, depends on the agreements between isn't on the cross has expired last night. and so because of that they are one thing a president on the friends to move on and on the part of the minister there is. so i've given directors that they want the french ambassador to new jersey who's deadline to move out of the country and it's fired about a week ago. they want to victim out of his residential, all of his embassy, while i used to move out of the country because they said there's diplomatic communities and stages and got to this probably hopping revolts. now, people here in his years are including the minute deals of the country has not been reject valley and being position of sciences progress, somebody, somebody which is of west africa. i'm always an active research. those sciences i am set to move on. ordinary people on the street. yeah. in new jersey,

probably remember i'm is, yeah, it's a country that is largely dependent on financial and a for a, from the international community now with the suspension of a bridges of non governmental organizations. as well as with functions opposed by the african union between communities of west africa and international institutions . things are getting more and more difficult for the ordinary jerry, i mean, collection. so going to how many degrees i just need apple insight story in your mind. well, let's take a look at links between friends and knees, yet friends colonize the west african country in 1898, enrolled for more than 60 years. these had gained its independence. in 1960 and despite local hostilities, some french troops remained until today friends enforce uranium from new share and is its topic sport. partner regional and european leaders have condemned. the cool they say, friendships must remain in the fight against revel groups in the sy region. but co

supporters say they are fed up with a former colonial power telling the country what to do the last spring in august. now for today's show, joining us from paris is nikolai and nama. he's a former french from bassett, or tamales, sent it out and the republic of the congo from a bu drive. is kabir a demo? he's managing director at beacon consultancy as a security risk management consultancy. and joining us from cape town is that it will it and z gay is a researcher at the institute for democracy, citizenship, and public policy in africa at the university of cape town. a won't welcome to your gentleman. thank you very much for joining us on inside story. and baset or nikolai normal in power is let me start with you. if i can, the people of new share, not just a june, to wants to cut ties with friends. why is friends digging in it's hills? why refused to comply with the expulsion order for somebody to what is the answer?

i assume the process does not recognize the coordinators as their legal praises. and you know that despite being detained and despite being under pressure, because you've done the bathroom or the former president of the legal president elected president not to resign. so we, we cross reorganizes. i just saw president and does not comfortable fly reset. i've explanation or any other coming from the coordinators from the trip? yes, well, we had somewhat of a similar situation, a basset, or in molly where there was also a clue that the french in basrah was recalls by paris. then what's different between that situation and this one where some say friends is putting is and boy at risk, which there is apparently because in my he's a president. deed to resign the deed sign,

a letter of resignation. that's not the case or a nature. so the situation in new jersey is very peculiar, very strange, because there are 2 presidents activity. why the legal? wow. the 5 to president. and we go back or the legal we must or so stress the prism bedroom. why don't we detain? see uh, get seat belt gets in contact with well lead us controlling french president. we also sports that the was a lie or, or cross, right. we, we, we did indeed hear from present my calls that he spoke to present by them on the phone. almost every day, but i want what i wanted to get from you uh, um, bassett or norma is out. find out why why friends is today willing to put the a safety and security of its, uh, soldiers, warranties. yes, please can also get some basset or risk by digging in on this issue where the french should take a very kind of sound position. the very same sauce,

in my opinion. it's the law schools because the president basil we'd not to be a be not get power again. e, we low not be handled, but we're back. you know? so we are on the very end fixable. very busy. don't my, to me is very adamant about that. but finally we, we have to do that one from the ship to the mexico. we finally be expelled because we'd be finding the solution to, to the, to the state made to the which is the current situation. probably 42 point of view . do you think president my calls tell us relationship with present by zoom is what's guiding his decisions and his actions on you share right now when you know what. ready axis, a fidget on the bed, you wouldn't be restored to by wire and as a pressure what? because employee, their sweat under the pressure of those sections of the april was the local,

the regional organization. but the coordinators are also very inflexible down, very adamant that they are going to keep the power so age is a really stay later. yeah. and the, i think finally that we know we'd be the community this. ok, let's uh, bringing a beer into the conversation because they are as invested in no mind. just said that we are in a stalemate or stand off on each side. seems to be digging in how 1st of all, do you evaluate the way find says handle is crisis in the share and how do you think the uh, missionary and army, the new leadership will eventually respond. well, explain any of this to me on an escalation of a very delicate situation. it appears to me that the front of the looking forward is to use a good way to use a flexibly from telemundo false. we didn't need or otherwise,

i cannot be how of friends. it's in new jersey, in a very political company and of its own foreign relations. it's something about that all. and then the military deployment and then the job, a part of the argument, if the interpretation of the agreement that allow upfront the deployed troops on the 0 and the 5 digit type in they've given new jar and want, which is speculator reading the agreement. and a friend, the french side is they know you do not have the community to issue that one too much room of $11.00. it's a very interesting appeal in international relations. beautifully played out, maybe come presidents, i think where fall, you know, the interpretation of the solver, abt all of these to take something that i've shown and done the tendency for these 3 of escalating. the big issue is extremely high data in the video that you've shown with people's page on the right outside,

the embassy kind of thing. what could go wrong at that point in time and i know yet vp of a. yeah, indeed, it is a very tense situation. manage your thoughts about how science has handled this situation in the share and also perhaps how the military is handling it right now. the new leadership, they seem to be adamant and at the same time, cautious it would seem as to what they do next. yeah, i think the francis taking a 0 some approach so far. however, they're trying to take this approach. meanwhile, they don't have leverage to pursue that because as the box of the stages, they don't legally recognize the military of doing types of power. however, in practice, they have been controlling affairs for the past months. they've been able to establish some issues with the regional power. and despite their suspension of the core and the african union, they still been able to maintain control over the extent of the territories as well

as to pennsylvania political, socially phenomena, and other society wide engages. somebody doesn't agree with you on that could be a yeah, correct. but the point around there be that they've been able to establish relationship with regional authority does not ex boss to describe the development of an attempted cool. a describe the development of an attempt to go. the only element that has remained more or less neutrality, the united states, they've called it to the you have to call it a cool defense of the invoice to this new job interpretation of an important meeting. i needed to commit government depending on where it's done that international relations is of course, subject to the interpretation of what i typically company jump on, but it's better on much electronic agents does not recognize between india. okay, a basset or let me come back to you. alright. then i'm gonna go ahead, go ahead and respond into the yeah, go ahead. i really regional authority,

regional neighbors, for example, molly and picking up also i stipulated their support and the even since litigate into formal just to these here in the event that there was really been in the regional ministry for the flight to the country. the pulling doors but never the less and you need victory by as also competitive fashion. so i didn't see i'm a regional institutional level. i knew it through the african union and it was i was suspended in but nevertheless they have gotten the endorsement and support from regional neighbors such as my me, i'm picking up also with also have ministry governance. yeah. original neighbors which are also under sanctions because of the closing in those countries in money and book, you know, fossil, it's worth pointing out and bass with it. let me come back to you and compare. mentioned the relationship with the us in the us, not recognizing this as a cool. i'll come back to that in just a moment because they have been some before such as it suggests that there is some tension, perhaps between powers and washington right now on this issue. of new share,

but i wanted to ask you about the question of military intervention. kabir said that perhaps the french could be looking for an excuse to intervene militarily in the chair. would france do that? and you think if we hops, echo was was to ask for some sort of intervention. would friends intervene military was a stretch of a cool was to have the media to arrange that conduction is not crazy about the means to delete and politically. it is not feasible, you know that we'd be proud to preventing them from going full law. and so, so as a, we'd be know, mediators intervention by paper was and know neither by april was no false. false fantasies, it's totally rule that any way. the problem is, the problem is i've just french all the pro, my p p. i is the latest you mention very against us the,

i guess all the most flexible, they are not even the reason why is that there is a, this is a false to uh, to interrupt the process of the seas fall while by force it is it for to disrupt the configuration, it is a boost i've sent it to, but it's not too far from it. you know, we're clear about that and, but we are the only country within europe to support the idea of media. terry intervention by april was even if it does not pay the bill. so we have a very or sign the spence against the new jack and the z c. the week o clock. because the finally, the we know i'm going to lead us got to denounce frost as a starting to, oh wow. so they took advantage of about, you know? yeah, because everybody's are strong yet. mt friends sentiment in the yeah,

man of the capital. and saw the company the laws of about. so friends should i give them the news to, to, to be more and the french, you know, could be, or let me come to you. uh, it'd be in bassett, i talked there about a possible military intervention by echo wise and they did threaten to intervene, but that seems of somewhat become more quiet. now. do you think that's likely to happen intervention by a gloss? some are you doing both of them? it's terrifically. what do you do? what? impossible, but difficult. the ministry interventions kind of a different uh, you know, around the explanation vend manifestations. and now given the size of the jar and on several of the issues, including for instance, the political element that i'm about to know spoke about. if you use an idea of an example planning, the president has the button to kind of support. you would have one to,

but i think that's a condition of permission that would allow him to use that could be to defile stevens. it comes to the now the original power such as well and to an extent the guy now how about for you to get some support for um, for community dimension. no doubt. several of the timing on it. but i think the most important one that we should not run away from is domino effect, that the headphone the appointment must be seemed to be running away from when you have a situation, someone is protecting his own position, then anything can happen. so what are using possible way ahead of difficult, all right, leonard bulletins and gave them baset, or alluded to the fact that the military in new shed and new leadership there has been capitalizing on this growing anti french sentiment there. and we seen huge protest outside the french embassy. the french military base is unclear whether that is reflective, of course, of the wider population. because i imagine that those against the cool would not be

able to speak freely about that. about it. how much longer do you think the new military leadership can continue to capitalize on this? is there a clear plan in place? you think they have to, to move the country forward and transition to democracy? do they have a plan in place of you said the chair. so part of the job and trying to use them to ask questions. and then as a mobilization strategy, as well as to the right to capital and support b on easier for the the scene in my, the, in the regina hospital and the on as well as on social media. people saluted the cool and the fact that be considered a way of pushing away from continued influence in the country and some sort of 2nd independence for these are the country on the west african beach. and in general, concerning the we for, i think that the really to do that is trying to find time the, you know,

explore that box. there is situates that, you know, the international influence, which was most adams. so how, then you try to buy the power with it. let's say the end are presented on the ground and symbolically. that's very important because he said the a box there is the representative of front of the government depends. if he's not, there is a to indicate that um, you know, there's a way for it in terms of engaging with the international partners such as the us, which would be more problematic. and that possibly to describe devon, necessarily intended as a cool. so right. i think that the, yeah, that's fine. fine. but the, the plan isn't necessarily as clear as one would expect after this amount of time. the control in these year could be a, do you agree with that they're buying time and how long do you think they can ride on this on, ty, french sentiment, waves going to be buckled between the effects to the economic function of called the function on the low cost of or the, the been able to guide us too fast,

but not the point new, jerry. and we'll have to choose between supporting them. and then of course, the effect of the functions on them. well, really seen that the, you know, the 2nd point is that the, you know, around the shot a transition period. um does this week the $90.00 president more time that the idea of a 9 month transition period before then? um the year end foot forward is 6 months. parentheses jump bureau but you don't have to indicate that a tree. yeah. you know, so i think that's so what the next step would be, what transition? and then of course, on the various to the truck, but not the magic of by the truck but enough, but also come in to agree around up to date and time period for that transition. ambassador, norma, what is the next step is fine as far as funds is concerned about that, or if, as you say, reinstating by zoom is a loss caused and what happens next? how does friends settle this crisis way truly and the via the french

withdrawal? there is no doubt what about that? about the program is up to who is a we know is this crazy. so what do we know? all the g at is, do, you know, is there is a very serious instruction to see uh, at least let us in sergeant see in this country. so french well need to assist the jan. i to come back to fi. it says a jet, this the, what about mine says he can only contrast some baset or in the chair. it's uranium liner, fries needs uranium, and she is energy needs in these. yeah. what about that? that mean is it, isn't that a concern for science? it's energy of independence. it's not important across the many other providers need just more of use. so you have, you know, and the main produces for across of been providers for cross the tax.

so it was make, you saw, it was tree, i got another. so we don't need the need. yeah, i the, it's your way, i only for security interest and 250 is the and you know, the quote you just, i'm not really interested in financing. subject is really interested in the rest of the bins, is a 2 hour to enrich themselves not to improve the situation entail. social security is not the team, it's clear it is. oh yeah. okay, boss, compare and then it seemed to disagree with you. what could be, i'll start with you, the in bassett. a says friends wasn't there for, for it's interest is not interested in new jersey, radium. and that it was just that to help the fight against groups, groups in the region. what, what do you respond to? in summary, i mean, it's very important that friends, recall the 9th is that this post colonial will probably be enough break up a failing or failed. and i mean, why,

why are we not seeing the type of reaction on the countries? why did that is new and french them format quality though with the and that's the important upfront starts from the point of view. now speaking about security, about economic interest, reality on ground is different in french companies that are mine in the re every year. i know. yeah. agreements that's cute individual or from nothing to people in the jar. and um, i mean the economy, you jar no, you'd speak about that does not reflect that. they were just if, if you read the best, find the president of the french troops in new jersey. this the hell. so how much the most arriving terrorist ravaged? part of the world at the moment, so it's very difficult to convince and you know, i mean nothing academic i can look at the data and look out for the configuration of what for the average each year. it's almost impossible to convince him that different present the day if anything trust, and that is what friends need to do it. okay, manage your, your response to what the ambassador said. yeah. before we disappear, i mean,

you look at the postcolonial corporate, i see on the ports, look what region agreements. and they've stipulated that, you know, friends should have the original access to the various questions middle, including uranium and you know, french companies such as a what was formerly known as i've been back in the colorado. i've had professionally ritual axes and the writers significant benefits and profit as a result. so on arrival competition, i tell you not to be these in the new year. i like to have some boxes or how frankly dispute is, for example, um the chinese for see the russians would have access to that. you really and that's, that's something which i'm, you know, in terms of french not only for the policy, but as well as overseas. like a normal diplomacy is not an option that they would like to enter t. so see not find the phone you there for security, which is, i mean the security issues in these are the fire on the, immersed for the top 10 to 15 years. they put them in and it is one of the

extensions. but as far as in boy respect to uranium extraction, i don't have to do it almost 60 years. so let's allow the ambassador to respond. let's allow the ambassador to respond to how bassett, a, a good question that a limit poses, the how would friends feel if the chinese or the russians were to get access to the uranium initiative? when you're doing good agreement is that women should face their own little section 3 minutes. there is no prepare, prepare into excess photo french. do you still to the wrong? it's a fake agreements. i must stress the fact. and also wanted to keep you don't run your minds, we would get to know was a job that we would, we would get to know. it was a new government. it's the case of poor. we neglect to office economical interest in that crises. given that we stick to principles already. so we went on the waiting list, so the government,

they're saving money and go to the east. the government says do not crunch the french to assist them. it is a fighting against suggest is we are going to step down to withdrawal from those countries. but it is already the case in money and due to the hassle and uh, in the following uh, the withdrawal or all the french is the security situation. the tell your right to a lot to the market or is it oh yeah, i'm so sorry to interrupt you because we're coming towards the show. but i just wanted to put this question to you isn't the reality of a situation today that front is losing its last strategic foothold in this region in the west africa. so have region where other clues i've already, as you mentioned, forced it to withdraw troops of sweating, molly and book unify. so is this a strategic defeat, but also a psychological defeat today? for france, you are right. it is a, you mean you should because we are,

we are not the, just the position to present change or to solve the wrong. but, you know, those are right. it's not the fresh because we kind of we are, we are no what is to interest in the region aside from the sightings of terrorist? so the countries, but as i told you, the interest is nothing fighting 0 east. the interest is for the military, for the leaders to cease fall for himself for the, for the best alone, gaines. this is really a tragedy because of this trim is deteriorating because although the sufficient interest could be here in blue, i'll give you the last word. then baset us as a news or is not friends. what are your thoughts about this? and what next? in this crisis, how do you see the ending? the pre my, the, i'm shown is that covered on country by not comfortable nowadays some element of truth and data. but that does not allow the possibility that perhaps at this point

in time african countries are, we can of the reality that the can do better. and i think the next stage, which we hope to see from every kind of get us, you know, if an investment in human capital to allow a whole management and control of the resources we didn't know if we got it would take time. but that process has to begin in terms of the resolution of the crisis. i've mentioned earlier on days that they're running around it shut out front of each computer and i think that's what the next few days with would tell us depending on how this collision open, you know, distribution between new jersey and friends of gentlemen. thank you very much. for very insightful discussion. thank you. baset, any collab, normal chavira, donald leonard bulletins, a thank you for joining us on inside story and thank you to for watching. you can always wash this program again any time by visiting our website at all just or dot com for further discussion, go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash a inside story. of course you can join the conversation on x, formerly known as twitter handle, is that

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