can develop the political dimension where the spoils of law smuggled and sold to motion houses and private collectors, buying or selling. i mean, part of the fact is worth finance is to be headings of muslims in the middle east. don't sell, don't buy. that's one quick solution. ok, trafficking on i will just sierra high stakes meeting and so change that he is leadership type or the one whole starts with bushes vladimir fulton and made international efforts to revive the black sea grain. you can are the one for sway, puts into the joins and how solid are relations between the 2 countries. this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm fairly bad people. it's

a meeting aimed at researching ties between take here and russia, following his re election and made a turkish leader has taken steps criticized by moscow as hostile, like backing ukraine's big financial membership. the main issue, however, is a revival of the grain deal. bo could buy tra key, and the un washer withdrew from in july. besides that, can anyone use his coast relationship with fulton to move towards a possible settlement of the war in ukraine? we'll get to our guests and just a moment, but for us this report from vinton, mont, turkish president recept type air to one is seeking to re establish himself as a mediator between russia and the west over the war. ukraine. top of the agenda is meetings of present vladimir putin in the russian resort of so cheap as the re establishment of a green card or across the black sea. last year, turkey and mediation, an agreement between russia and ukraine, allowing green exports to pass safely through the boxy, that stabilized global grain prices and was a relief to developing countries. spot in july,

decline to renew the deal. same problem is this. the rush of relief from western sanctions were being met. the u. n. is cooling old parties to find a solution. we believe that the black sea initiative has given a very important contribution to make the foods markets more adequate to our objectives of food security, but lately relations between air to one and putting, had been strained. in july, turkey returned a group of prisoners to crane. despite promising moscow it would hold them for the duration of the war. the kremlin called it a violation of trust meeting and so cheese evidence that turkey retains some sway with russia. question now is whether it's enough to produce results bins, mullin for inside story. the, well, let's meet on guess for today's show in moscow is andre box and all of a former russian ambassador and deputy chairman of the association of russian to

from us in bangkok is michael versa. school global affairs analyst and senior fellow at the atlantic council. and analyst on both of the identity rop, associate professor at a sick university. i won't welcome to you. oh, thank you very much for joining us now before we discuss what was achieved and not achieved in. so gee, i want to ask you 1st about the state of the relationship today between to key and russia and andre in moscow. let me start with you. how would you describe this relationship today, between present or the one and present fulton? is it on solid ground? well actually, uh this uh, the relationship between the neighbors in uh, in summer or i have a question. so we are are developing our relations in due way, but a successful, especially in the economic field. the collaboration uh in uh the item that cannot or g project and some uh, original um,

no problem. civic have for the for the importance of you and uh, well as far as the green. uh, do you, uh there was another discussion. no. and i do most things that uh it was, uh, a break for me or anything of this kind of froze because uh, the main problem dealing the, uh, the grain do is uh they do the rest of the content as of right. take off those notes, trophy about the rest of companies, but we are a thread. the turkey and personal president of broker cannot have the opportunity to affect the polish it was the rest of the companies. so it could be that to holds these negotiations, restore kids to kind or few trial uh, you know, above the few to i will attempt to influence and to make the deal going on,

as he said, no major breakthrough on the grand deal andre in sochi. i do want to, to ask, i want to ask you one more question about the relationship between present or the one and prizes important. andre. and we saw russia criticize a turkey afore expense on ukraine for accepting and supporting ukraine's bit to, to join nato. do you think russia of use turkey today as a trustworthy and reliable partner? no. nope, nope. it's a white guy, crumpled, put into our author of what happened during the last months and the last 2 weeks. and after the decision of mister, they're going to turn back the cream. the goals are over as of the regimen to ukraine of to this, of course. so they can not plus, if i relation so as a kind of girlfriend, literally,

this is just the relations relation between the neighborhood of companies. okay, let me ask for diane is simple about our thoughts on the relationships that i andre just said that the russians don't view this relationship between or the one and put in as a, it's a friendly one certainly, but the russians don't necessarily trust o o c. 14 is the other one, right. as a reliable partner, what's the view from to a key? it's been a very difficult balancing act for present dirty one has in it. how solid the relationship is. it as far as turkey is concerned, as well. it's a fact that the relationships between church in a rush are not as close as they have been before the elections in the summer. so since the elections in the summer director selections and add ons victory, fee of seeing idle on turning his face

a bit more towards the west, which is in line with turkish traditional foreign policy from rich dawn had been de meetings on the past couple of years due to conflicts within us, particularly in syria and also again conflict with the us about the on put attempt into a chain 2016 i go on had blamed us for, for taking part or emphasis. they supporting the cool. um. so since then for kate, um kind of outgoing i would say has been pursuing close relationships, but russia. so i would think that relations with russia should, can only be understood to do any follow relations between true can and the usa of west, but particularly do a site. so there has been

a gap between church in russia ever since the elections because of turkey is the 1st one with the west. and also because because of domestic pressure, i would say, yeah, so i don't have the following a strategy of a cold think some of the opposition or adding some of the opposition agenda to his own agenda. so it pro, question policy process and foreign policy or returned to orthodox economic policies. these were the opposition's agenda during the next in campaign. but now since the elections are done, has been adopting on some of these policies, which is so, so they have been changes. yeah, they've been changes and domestic factors of have perhaps into, in some of these changes. let me ask michel for it for his thoughts about the state of the relationship between turkey and russian. michael, this turkey is still play a leading role today. sure. well,

i'm glad um are the guests from russia underscore the importance of neighborly relations? and i hope when he goes home, he'll take a long, good look in the mirror and ask himself about how russia has been treating its neighbor ukraine cub slaughtering civilians and damaging infrastructure in terms of the relationship. that if indeed there is no agreement from these types, i think expectations are very low going into them. it is a loss for global thoughts. so it security because i think in that relationship was important because putting in are the one um had a pretty good um uh kind of talking relationship but um, put in the, sorry mister to one is one of the few uh, leaders who as mr. put it on uh, speed, but speed dial. so it was big. and um, i think he really wanted to see some resolution to this deal. now, one more thing, a couple of things about mr. to one. number one,

he rarely goes into the high stakes negotiation without getting something automated . and number 2, i think this, he also went into this for domestic consumption. um, when they went into the meeting, they also talked about nuclear energy breakfast. applying, i think about 4 plus the turkey tourism and also trading in their own currencies. the turkish economy is not in very good shape, so we need to show something coming out of that as well. okay, and alaska, in just a minute about what a turkey has gotten out of this meeting, but i want it to come back to andre 1st, and talk about the grain deal. we heard person 14 say that russia will only be ready to, rejoined this greendale once all the agreements off or failed. so talk to us about the conditions. why and why russia pulled out of the, of the agreement in july and what it wants to see happened in order for it to rejoin it? well actually we're tired, right outside of the above is, is, uh, keep up per se, and life and a net killer it, uh, if you go to serve,

you should be over in the vast and uh, also the story about the russia. uh, you know, uh i me to the, uh do the deal by itself. it was uh, the only way all told us because for one year, one year, nothing happened. dealing read, the obligation over the rest and gone through is uh to give the opportunity for the russian brain and for the russian uh for the deluxe evers to go. so we fulfilled all our locations and the rest of the content did not prove view of their obligations more than this is worse after world as a rule, because only 3 percent of the grade came to africa and more than 80 percent came to europe. so this whole story was rather start, you know, because of the pre fix for the agreement towards the, assess it to, to uh, to for

a few of the, you know, the, the grading, the grading, the export to our product and all the countries that i need oh, because of the congo. so the cool story i talked to before and reassure because it was a great mistake. i think of all government that we are rated for while i'm here, before we terminated our participation, we should have done it much time before. maybe after 2 or 3 months, so i need to feel that the whole story is not developing, being the right away. okay, let me ask, who am i going to respond to that to michael over it might be go ahead and respond to that. over 50 percent, sorry, over 50 percent of the $33000000.00 metric tons of grain that left under the deal. according to you and figures, which is a party to the deal when to develop think countries just quickly are returned from the brick stomach just now and mr. put them put out the same way. not kristi is that only a small sliver of the grain went to poor countries. that's not true. the figures

are there online. i think they still allow google to work on right. so go ahead and google the figures yourself, sir. okay, andre briefly before i bring backs it on to the conversation, your response to that. and also i wanted to find out why, you know, even after russia pulled out of the deal, if it was genuine about it, why did it for upset also, attack ukrainian facilities, ukrainian, grand storage facilities, facilities. we saw a tax on the part of a desa as well. why? what, but actually very or what it was that uh there must have gone through either give to the opportunity for all great. and if with less just a goal or, or we will uh, back direct agreements as we originally started with the can start as states and the cable ready negotiation of this 6 applicant, a states in the, in the weeks to, to, to come re show supply that free of charge, but this was not the way over developing the 30th and relations, but the,

but we could that kind of do not have any of the opportunity just to go. okay, let us sit out your thoughts about what we just heard from both andrey and michael and also how you think to a key and present, or the one can convince russia to return to this d. o, the, the russian seem adamant that do you know that there agriculture bank has to return to the switch system? does press present oh, on has the leverage right now to convince the west to, to perhaps accept some of these proposals from russia. a well, 1st of all, i should also start with saying that, but before i said how are done has been trying to restore it's his relationship for tricky relationships with the west. but it's important to note that this doesn't mean he's willing to give up russia as a, as a trade partner with a strategic ally, so hard on and both coasting. they're both and programmatic and flexible

feeders, and they would, i would expect, especially for are doing. i can say that he would try to keep relations positive with teaching. and the revival of the green core door is important for i don't one for on shipping foot prices down. that's important because um now local elections are coming up and, and watch me. so that's one factor, but in addition to that, having that meeting role add on has been branding himself as someone who can talk to both the west and russia. cis mediating role has been important for, for him also domestically that his being quarantined can prestige. so he will try to convince western the actors

to um, um, to allow the russian exports to reach global markets and the russian cultural bank to be connected to the swift system again. and perhaps actually are the ones now closer to relations with the west. could i pay off and, and come useful and actually benefiting russia? i, you know, i can sing them to michael. interesting. the present person go on. and so today said that moscow, russia has a right to refuse a deal in his current form because it was not fair, but at the same time, he was the one who negotiated the deal in the 1st base with the united nation. so how do you explain this change of tone from from turkey? a shirt. well, i think what um happened um, weeks, uh months actually before the deal of the rough ends, the detail, every pulled out where's the russians were deliberately slowing down clearance of

the ship. so the strips that were leaving ukraine and going to to the above, ford markets. so they basically sabotaged the deal themselves. but that's number one. look, the other thing is, um, if i can go back, sorry to something you said earlier about the russians bombing your credit and part infrastructure, you know, let's call a spade a spade. this, the strikes are a direct strike on the global food supply chain. i don't hear the rates from western capital is that this is happening and i think the russian strategy is to decimate ukraine in port the infrastructure to, to the degree that it can function. and the russians thinking that they're going to be able to get some world buyers to take to buy grain from them. that would be a very bad development. so what needs to happen right away today? not even tomorrow is for ukraine to proceed with those unilateral court orders that

they've established across the bikes. so you, in recent weeks convert container ships to those big ball carriers. the carry crane with the cover of the western allies, support surveillance plans and also armed as courts. if that's what it takes. why should poor people in egypt and many other countries be starving to death because of the arrogance of a small group of men in the kremlin? okay, let's allow andre to respond under your response to that, as well as mobile, what's the point? it's just the location of the biggest, uh, uh, you know, cheap propaganda which we are kidding uh, each day. so i do the thing that uh, as an impressive girl, i should. uh, well go on notice pointing for such uh, you know, claims. well actually, um we are ready to return back can only be one condition. uh, if this shipment, so over the russian brand and fertilizers were gone. and we could have the time,

so that, uh, these uh, these uh, you know, export facilities uh, accomplished only after the weekend that it turned back to be that great and do you go and do you want until no, it's not a great deal, but that's for the deal as a, as i told you, so i, the thing is in the kinds of rest of our lives for their lives and all of them are pop punk those if they go give access for our our shipments, it will be okay. if not, we will block the rest of the deal because its file is fail. okay, now, but at the time or the sort of shortage to where to start the river already took a liberate the gift, accessed to be a great name. great. but we waited for several months until the other part of the, of the, of the green deal. we looked on push, but we didn't have any opportunity for our shipments to go on. and that was the start of the present day crisis. okay, i wanted to ask you that at

a time when we're seeing ukraine intensify, it's so offensive and it's drones targeting russia. is there a real appetite to think for diplomacy and for negotiation, or is it just, you know, talk a, sorry about sanctions, right. well, i think that the rest and gone through scanned them, use themselves to be some consumers go. we had a great, complex half of the thing is we kept great and we can always look at uh, i guess they kept uh, you know, a sufficient level of the sophisticated weapon the way. so of course, it's not a pleasant thing. took up sections against us, but it's not possible and we will go on for our development of abilities. i options to sure, but assume the day, but it will come when to the best and confidence to will stop there stupid policy of the store trying to sanction. so the biggest uh, the largest, the account 3 in the world in the nation has gone through the rules as far as much

you to let us sources. like i'm sure, let's try and move the conversation forward now and said, i want to come back to you because present data on has offered himself as a mediator to settle this ukraine conflict. and i want to ask you whether this is feasible. can he use his of close relationship or what is perceived as close relationship with putting to, to move towards the settlement of this conflict in ukraine while he is going to try? that's um, i could most certainly say that because that's very important for him. like i said, both for domestic politics and international politics. that will be a great achievement for our dawn. and it could help him to expand has support base back home. he's describes what many people expect to actually um, since the elections are done has been not polarizing, but actually trying to unify the um, the opposition and his supporters. so i think that would be

a success there. mean reaching peace between ukrainian or russian, which are the ones and womans which are the ones mediating ruled churches, me dating rule, that would uh, grant him the power, the prestige that he's trying know probably is going to be his last term as president. and he would like to be remembered with the snake, a c, so he will try and he leverage he has on the, the close relations. now a he has with the west for that purpose. but of course, i mean the remote, there are multiple actors and we cannot quite predict what each actor will will do . so i cannot say whether peace will be reached in the short run, or in which period it will be read, it could be reached. but i think it's in the best interest of all actors. and it

looks like, i mean, like, what do you when statements about softening sanctions toward russia? i never think i could see that. um, some of the russian demands will be respected more in the short run compared to on the past couple of months. mm. okay. michael, your thoughts about the sanctions which andrea also talked about. he said, at some point these functions are going to have to go and, and that has been, it would seem some movement and perhaps some reflection about lifting some of these sanctions against russia to give diplomacy a chance under no circumstances should be that they be loose and in fact, they should be tightened to because you still have um the latest and the least people in the late circles around mister fulton, i'm investing in certain countries travelling with a band. and so they would set

a very bad precedent if the un and the you go ahead and allow the trust and the bank to get back into swift. if they allow that frozen roxanne fertilizer to leave you parts, it would only embolden and encourage other dictators to act like rice ups. i should also add, if i can, that as our guest from us, always speaking, i forgot to mention that the belling cat and that they're very authoritative. incredible bodies have actually been tracking these phantom russian ships that have been turning off their transport, transponders and shipping illegally stolen, you craning grain through by some ports to world markets. they're acting like see pirates, and they should be held accountable for that as well. okay, andre your response if you want to respond, and i also want to put to the question about a present or the one offerings offering himself as

a mediator to resolve this conflict between russia and ukraine. ah, how does moscow view this and is there still room an appetite for diplomacy? well actually the last thing is that it can go to the sincere we. sure, all of the gone to be a sincere remediate or uh, key is uh, the member i didn't talk is the member of the nato. and we are open to luke having the, the, or, uh, well, uh, again interested in data on the territory of ukraine. so this is going to, is to ensure, you know, media age or which belongs to the doctor. we are waging war we, we, uh so uh, i don't think that up this, that them so it means to of my gun of your reach. uh uh you know, some, uh, some sensible, uh, success is the okay, the if you would like to go and he is free. but it seems to me that mainly visa

attempts to, uh, to on the line is that frontier needs to be. let me do that because all the attempts to, to put in the, in the, in the un, which will be letters you want the piece of overall this month to go on is uh, securing the new place and then you are url. oh was overall turkey and these is security council arrangements and uh, in the un structure they uh because they are giving the auto good man that uh, the door. okay. should be busy. uh these you go to the concept because it's a very important major media. is that right? that's why fi is very much. i mean, just the gunners very much of the engineers think about, well, the andre just coming back to my question, just coming back to my question, the war can not go on forever. right. is russia interested in settling this conflict and in diplomacy interested in diplomacy? well, the thing is that the majority of they've gone through,

so there's nothing this tend or they tend to have to do so to make sure that they do both understand the nature. the image of it is the publication of, of the 2nd world war. again, profession, and they've got against the nationalism of it to us on the 3rd of the crate and you, because there was 1200000 on all 3 that are so that, that i thought you were kind of over your claim. so there is your think the same, but all this is the same about the euro, the confidence of your printer to company. so if you're up to date, you know, helped people are against their war against the story. if you're in a sole, okay? cuz the issues of the war on the okay mind allow you to respond briefly before we end the show, please? sure, sure. yeah, i mean, it's almost worth responding because it's the typical russian narrative. but anyway, i'll say is that what we're seeing happening right now in terms of diplomacy, the world getting much smaller for russ harper, mr. booth and we saw what happened and break. so now they're going to be doing

diplomacy with the mullers and around what sign up with other rogue states. so i wish them luck with that and they would see what, how little they get and return and leave it. but i think it is, you know. yeah, thank you so much for. we've run out of time and for nice. unfortunately. thank you so much for a great discussion andre box and all of us to that dinner up and michael bush, high school. thank you, and thank you as well for watching. you can always wash this program again any time by visiting our website at all, just 0. don't com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story. of course, you can join the conversation on x, formerly known as twitter. i handle is that a j inside story from move from the back to go and hope to hear you. thanks for watching the the

september, which is india hose, the g 20 summit. where leading economies will discuss global challenges. generation support meets the icons who are challenging preconceptions and using that platforms to change society. widely to gather in new york for the un general assembly. with the ukraine and climate change expected to dominate towards the broad cost premier of a new series. exploring the implications of us and people are closed for 1st amendment rights for celebration of sports and see is competition. is expected of china who c h a game september on out. just

got the different stories done 1st, which is a selection for consumers from across some network of channels and which is 0. the don't feel just bear with me. so robin indo, reminder of our top story easy i see and submits as i put in indonesia with members divided on several issues. the southeast asian blog is basically the russians walburn ukraine. chinese claims in the south china sea and the crisis in mid month a corresponding jessica washington is at the summit with oh, this is an important week of diplomacy here in chicago. the final week of engineers is tim and ship.