i am very delighted to say to all the confidence, brightest legal students putting minds against them. this means in africa would really be interesting to see how we miss uh gather together for tournament. unlike any other top me expressing meaning the as we can cause a human and people drive is now in session. witness for couldn't move on out to 0. 7 log a new tool during 12 years of war, but now serious stories are protesting in the heartland. them all and industrial, i sense that down the why now, almost really behind the angles and could these demonstrations gain the moment that isn't side store the

hello and welcome to the program on the wrong con, weeks of demonstrations in southern syria against rising costs, have escalated into riley's against president bush, our last on the protests that taking place, and that's the way to a governmental provinces, home to the minority jewish community. why is the sick and the state neutral in the 12 year conflict? now calling for the president to step down and how will the government known for his brutal crack down on descent, react lots to discuss with, i guess, but 1st to him console shareef. so it's the same for us and go on the streets of silvia demonstrations that began weeks ago, spoke by susan installation. and as part of linked economy have transformed into calls for political change. over the years, we would like to send the message to the,

to use an empty bar. charlotte sat himself, one to topple you, even if you distribute stationary or gas for free. or even if planes showered as to why the problems with gold, from the sky values i sent it in the presence of us the why the home to the minority to this community. the sect has stage. los the newton and the conflict between bush, that's all awesome. and those seeking to austin in the 12 be a civil with the rising cost of living is leading to public criticism, most depressed. and even in government control areas, the rest since you smoke caused by states subsidize goods a whole lot or the used. i'm a proud syrian, but i'm not proud of 1st lady smile, a subs gifts which is the smart card. the card will kill us all whether we're queueing in front of a fuel station or baker. the civil has taken a told on syria, much of the countries infrastructure is destroyed and the economy is in shambles. the city of pound plants to a wreck,

or $15500.00 to the us dollar last month. the lucas caught and see this trading at $47.00 pounds to the dollar at the start of the conflict. best and sanctions have only compounded the crisis of this it. i have 4 children from the 1st to 10th grade. the cost of stationery for each child is about $15.00, and this is only for basic stationary prices have doubled over the past year. so far, does the new reaction from the government known for its swift crack down on descent in 2011 or 12 piece responded von and say to peaceful protests, leading to a complex civil involving folding governments and separate groups. the fighting has getting more than half a 1000000 people and disposed 1000000 small. the un says most of the population has been pushed into poverty. and with southern prizes, the calls for political change in silvia that began more than

a decade to go. i'm pulling louder once more and i'm sure he's full inside story. so that's where, you know, i guess in washington dc is mo, as most of the executive director of siri, an emergency task force, that's a non profits that focuses on political advocacy, civil governance, and humanitarian aid for syrians in north hampton, massachusetts a is stephen item one professor and middle east studies program director at smith college, he's also a non resident senior fellow at the center of the middle east policy at the brookings institution. and in norman oklahoma is joshua elandis, director of the sense that for me at least studies at ogram university, he writes, and also i manages syria comment. don't com, a daily news like that was hurrying politics a warm welcome to you. oh, i'd like to begin in no time to massachusetts with steven steven. this is

a community that has largely been very, very loyal to present personnel. i'll ask that, in fact, the spiritual leaders of the jewish community have given their bless thing to the protests, but they've stopped schultz of cooling for what the process of holding for which is the removal of the shaw our assets. how worrying is this for the present? i think this has to be seen as a, as a deeply troubling development by the regime. i'm not sure i would describe the insurance community is deeply loyal to the regime in the course of the conflict during the past 12 years. as, as the introduction indicated, they remain neutral, but they have taken steps like resisting construction for young man in the jurors. community so there has been a very calculated position on the part of the jurist community in relation to the regime and the conflict that we've seen that completely collapse in the last several weeks. as economic shots have pushed the jurors community as way to and

syrians all over the country beyond the tipping point, that would prevent them from publicly expressing their dissatisfaction with the russian. and this of course is, is an enormous problem because this is urging that does not at the moment have the resources to respond to constructively, to the economic crisis that syrians are experiencing. and as long as that's the case, it's very difficult to see a way out of this prices for the regime. if they crack down the risk pushing the drew's and others in royalist areas along the coast. more forcefully into the opposition. if they don't track down, they risk empowering those who are dissatisfied with the regime and that is a large number of people to move into the streets. so this is a huge issue for the origin, which is a huge problem. and from my perspective, there is you can really has no easy choices, no easy choice as a mile,

as most of how would you agree with that i. i would agree that especially with the part that the jewish community have not been, i would say so we loyal to this. i mean there's broken down many times throughout the lose it. and they, at the beginning of the peaceful, non violent protest. so by the dictator's own admission was over 11 months of non violent drug this. that was phase with, with a really big crack down the just community have been, you know, trying to, to balance, being able to speak out and at the same time, make sure that they're state of the earth. it regression of the us and through the model received today, 6, the know now the 17 days on non stop protests of elderly use men, women coming out and very clearly saying how they really feel about the support of their leaders of their i think is quite clear that the jews communities are fine, all are serious people regardless of their background, whether they're minorities or the certainly majority errors or thirds have very much understood with this. it really is. and that the rogue,

the death of judy was taking them all as one that is complete darkness. and i think it's the, it's very important today more than ever to highlight what people are talking about just swayed of it across the rest of syria that are standing up. any solidarity was fatal calling for a political plan. this is the implementation of security council for the 254 that adult today has kind of been adopted, but never really gone anywhere while the world kind of turns away from the conflict in syria. let me bring in, josh rolanda said, joshua, we're looking at a syrian revolution to point, i've always, it's a no, we're not. you know, it's hard to say, syrians are in a terrible situation as both your guests and said the poverty is extreme. the current state has been collapsing in a sense, you know, un sanctions from europe or the united states have been working. and we see this uprising that's going on in the government controlled zones,

also going on in the american controlled zone and deep on happiness in north a lot. but when the turkish control zone, syrians are in a very bad position, all of these various regimes, whether it's the opposition, whether it's the kurdish lead, s d f are all very duct tutorial and um and this, you know, this is presents a terrible problem for us side as your guests upset. now, it must be said that the flags that are being flown in the drew's region are the drew's flags with 5 stripes color, as you see very few of the rebel flags and traditional rebel flags with 3 stars. and that's the statement on the part of the druids that they're not. ringback you know, in the one hand they're calling for the fall of the regime. but on the other hand, they're not a bracing the entirely, the revolution that broke out in 2011. and,

and this has been a dilemma for the uprising because there's been deep divisions amongst the syrians, and that's why serious, so divided today steven. um, this idea of what we're talking about a very divided syria never would never really applied to the lawyer list areas. it's something very, very new. traditionally speaking, present bizarre or asset with a crack panel. let's always straight away the fact that it's now what 17 days in need to introduce protests. so just that he's taking a softer approach on the well, i think i think the senior figures and nursing recognize very well the difficult consequences that would follow a crack down against the drugs community didn't, didn't sway them. i, i have to imagine that the conversations happening in the presidential palace right now are very much about the trade offs associated with refreshing, violent, refreshing, of the kind. the regime used routinely over the past 12 years,

as opposed to finding some strategy of accommodation that might find a way to develop a way to tap down these very visible expressions from syrians of the regimes, the legitimacy of its failure to govern of its failure to provide the basic necessities of economic life for, for ordinary people. and so there's a, there's, i think, almost without any question, a quite intense debate underway about whether and when are cracked down will be needed. i frankly would be surprised if we did not see a shift to some increased level of violence on the part of the regime as these protest develop. and, and that's precisely because of the effect that they're having that was mentioned in, in which they are inspiring. syrians in other areas, including in, in, in the loyalist parts of the country were very quiet. expressions of defiance and

opposition are, are, are now being heard. i do want to respond quickly if i made to the comment about sanctions working because i think we also need to recognize that what makes this crisis are difficult for the regime is that there are lots of vectors of economic suffering in syria. there is the destruction caused during the war by the regime and its russian sponsors. there is the corruption of the outside regime itself. and there is the collapse of the lebanese economy, which i sat a huge and back down syria. so all sanctions are certainly one piece of the broader picture that define serious economic crisis. we need to be very careful about not exaggerating its role in the conditions that have lived through these programs. right. i was one of the things that is a surprise to me. i was talking to a few theory and friends who are based in damascus. and they're saying that if we did this in damascus, they would have cracked out on us straight away. instead,

what we're doing is way of protesting very so hopefully very quietly but on social media, but you're out in the streets. this would be a very different scenario. would you agree with that to? yeah, i think there's, he makes different calculations in terms of how to deal with, with the, with, with sort of, you know, people that are rising against that. and then i would, i would counter the point of mr. land is that somehow seems or super divided that, you know, in these protests on the jews black, but i wouldn't, i would highlight that every one of these progress was the 1959 slash used by the so you're never losing and going on. and i would also reiterate with dr. hyde and then it said where you have people inspired up areas. i mean, there was a, there was an al white activism that goes, that came out, stood with the drew's and then made his way to sway the, by the way in order to, to fire protection. and the review arrested him on the way. now we know what happened resumed sale the portrait to the men women,

children. and there is no equivalency between any other party and what the regime has done in terms of the cystic nature of repression. but but just do, do, do you a question? i think in damascus, if there was a move of since the that you know, there this to me neighborhood my head speaking. it's like tell you in terms of that sounds redeem operates, you have little problems, sort of going out there arresting, killing. he also needs to preserve and is a, you know, and he's looking out and whether it's the united states or others that are watching as a, someone who's, you know, he's trying to say i protect my know things they can just go down and crack down on slate, although we've seen in the past when somebody that did come out in the past against and the sensually allowed or, or, or ice has to be able to go in there. and the human came out and you know, and instead that you know stream is there going to commons bought or you and so on . it's a very manipulative redeem does very vindictive, the never forgets. and i wouldn't argue that in some places there was you. but what the no one is banding at all right?

but that was even rush. i have been bombarding yesterday in the entire villages, children died. and so he has different ways of dealing with these different areas in this country. but what i want to reiterate is they all are old, are you? hi it. and one of the things they want to see and, and to this brutal resume, they wanted to see a transition to do something different and, and they deserve that and elsewhere. but i do agree that in damascus is much more dangerous and we've seen lately in damascus it gets put up security points within different places that fly overs in areas worried about renewed protests there. again, all of that is being inspired by survey that in other places that have come out in solidarity. and it's truly courageous with the people of suede are doing, raising both the druids, frank, and the fact that the serial of allusion. joshua is a very interesting strategy, is one that has what? the shower, our last side uh over the years of treating different areas. slightly different than a but as they, a mazda is becoming this kind of united voice. in fact,

that's the question, is that a united voice amongst all of the, the people that are coming out and protesting what they're doing a quietly on social media where they're out on the street, for example, in the way that there are some, there are some definite it is similarities between all the regions that are calling for at the end of the routine. the problem, i think for the demonstrators is that in swayed out, for example, in the main square there, there's about $2.00 to $3000.00 demonstrators i think is what most of the reporting estimates and, and that's not going to overturn this regime. and we've seen the regime is willing to use a brutal force against the uprising and it has for the last 12 years and it's one. and it's one in part because both europe and the united states were fearful of what the opposition would bring. that's both kind of an isis and they turned away from the rebellion. and that's, this was the downfall of their 1000000000. had there been

a george washington had there been really unity? i think we would've seen a very different outcome like ukraine, the united states and europe would have pumped in real arms and help them win. but at no point in this uprising was the united states for europe willing to see the destruction of the syrian army for fear. so all you, all you saying in effect that this uprising in some way to could be owned by the united states in order to get rid of this all outside because that's the road to civil. no, i'm not saying i think america has given up on the rebellion, and that's very important because i don't see a way that the rebels and the people who are very unhappy and are, are suffering terribly in the drew's region, are going to over turn the machine and i don't believe that the, that the opposition in syria today, which has been largely defeated,

is going to be able through demonstrations to overthrow this regime, which has shown time and time again, its willingness to use force and the military's integrity, the leadership of the military and it's a willingness to use force against demonstrators and opposition statements board in this out to the, into the actual community for one of about to would push our left side has court and quote, one, the civil war. he did it with the support of russia and iran, where are russia and iran right now when, i mean, they were both of them a busy ukraine trying to get back the jcp away, various political lifting sanctions. both sides, the countries got their own problems as syria, even on the gender anymore. i think syria remains on the agenda for both countries . it's clear that in the russian case, the scale of the resources, the military resources that it's been prepared to commit in the syrian battlefield

has, has decline. but otherwise, on the diplomatic front, even on the economic front, i don't see any significant pull back in the level of support that iraq and russia are providing to the servers. you know, there's been a lot of speculation about the effects of rushes, invasion of ukraine on the balance of influence between iran and russia, inside of, of, of syria inside the regime. with a lot of, of, of speculation that iran has benefited in terms of its relative balance of influence over the regime. and that may well be true. but i don't think we've seen any, any significant decline in, in the support of the us in support for the us advertising from either of its main, international sponsors, but about about whether the regime has because one, i think this is the big question that these protests confront the regime with

it is now witnessing a large scale uprising or, or protest movement in one part of the country that has spilled over into other parts of the country. the protest signal, the clear perception among the syrians of the failure of the regime at least in economic terms of that still legitimacy. and even if i agree with i agree with joshua that these protestors are not on their own going to overthrow the regime. but they totally undermine the narrative of victory. they undermine the narrative of legitimacy. that is happening at a time when the normalization process, that air of states and the region have embarked on has been failing. it is, comes at a moment when the regime really has no resources with which to respond to these protest. in fact, it won't increase subsidy costs this months in, in,

in the country. so i think we need to see this as a really significant crack in those narrative of victory that the regime has tried to put forward normal as if i understand this correctly. and please correct me if i'm wrong, but you just came back from syria with the senior american politicians. is that right? what was the like, what would they telling you or so i went into there were a couple of congressional delegations, one that went in met with syria, not position coalition. and inactive is by helmets. jerky that with the bi partisan delegation from the 1st committee. and i also take uh, 3 members of congress, congress, bon bons line. uh mr. stock. it's gerald and kindly spend french, she'll do it by syria and down to the border of the target serial border there they met with, with people across the board, the 1st responders in, in the medical doctor to continue to work under rushing to you're on the internet

said bombardment to save lives. they met with the steering opposition coalition in that and others within the serial position that are again calling for a real road map that allows us to go and, and, and be able to achieve, you know, the, the, the security of your supply to 54 and we just con, sway to the northeast, what's happening all over syria, and there was a firm commitment by these members of congress that when they come back to the united states, they will do all they can to pressure divided administration to do more in order to help protect lives in syria and also in order to help move things in the right direction in order to continue the pressure on the asset. really, i would say that perhaps the bind in administration has put syria on the back burner. i could agree with the cylinders on that, but i think that the fact is that there are many within the united states government, particularly united states congress that are learning and continued to know exactly

what's happening and 0. yeah, continue to push for with this theory and people are calling for afterwards. i had more so than i just wanted to say one thing if you don't mind is yeah, you know, we keep looking at this thing. i said, as one look 13 years as it's there. well, he had the entire russian air force and in, in, in a huge amount of percentage of his balance as our journey. and, well, this is in a new, i mean, back and the conventional military. and still, he doesn't control the northwest is likely sold at northeast. the dime swayed ahold though they're under this control, are obviously not there, protesting against them all the time. the 55 kilometers though, continues to be out of control in this out. and i think that's an important reminder that the syrian people in their ocean tests are by for 13 years. and that's what's truly inspirational, a lot that has done with all of this military. so important bit of that are a little aid to those that are going against the student people themselves and is barely hanging on him is by no means started his victory. i mean, what task side one is a, is

a very different conversation and no mist another show entirely. but joshua, when it comes to, you know, as we're saying that you toby's a congressional delegations that there was this commitment from them to at least start to talk about syria again. but real talk, real politics. what can the us really do right now in the us can do very little. unfortunately, we're seeing in the northeast where the us hold supreme owns about 30 percent of syrian territory that there is great format there between arrow tribes and the kurdish lead asked the app that america supports. and so americans juggling this is sort of boiling territory with 2 different nationalist aspirations, the kurds and the arabs. kind of in a sense this is the syrian dilemma. it is a multi ethnic, multi religious territory where people want very different things. and unfortunately, a, you know, the,

the regime has ruled with brutality and it has kept it all ready to show it. sorry, gosh, are we all running out of time to do when it comes to our other guests as well? steve, and we've talked about russia around and talked about the us roles and all of this, but there is an arab role in all of this. syria was recently welcome back to the arab castle in particular, was against that move. is that any body that can have influence in the arrow build that can make a difference? do you think it's but you know, this is one of the challenges of normalization which is out of translated into influence on the ground inside of syria. and so far, what we've seen is that the regime is furiously determined to insulate itself from the kind of pressure that normalization might be expected to bring. so it wants to benefit from reintegration on one hand without making reciprocal steps that would respond to their concerns and better of neighbors. and i suspect those concerns now

include avoiding our return to the levels of violence of the past. but it doesn't seem to me that there's very much leverage on the part of these are governments that they can use to try to chat or whatever, pass whatever decision on the outside regime eventually makes about. whether to refresh it or not. it's just very quickly because we are all running out of time, but come the arab is the, are bleed, useful in this? so again, is it just to use this debate things as isaac? well, there has been pretty usually in general about that being said right now, the concern for the country that have normalized with us and really um, on their own concerns, they were worried about kept to god, god, god continues to fly. they create criminal networks throughout the area. they were worried about your eyes. i said, well come that you're running and president after the interest of the day of the, with massive band bear, they were worried about rep, easy about a single person can return to the room because they don't want to die. so they've

gone against their own interest, they book deliveries that they had over i said know that that has over them and they need to recalculate that that strategy to i want to think, oh guess i was mr. joshua landis and steven hated on. and i want to thank you as well for taking now you can see the program again, any time by visiting our website. how does that don't come on for further discussion? go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on x. a handle is asked page the inside story for me in wrong con, and the whole team has bye for now the, the the

will define joyful to the war in ukraine. india is hosting. this is g 20 summit. president, chief china, and russia is president boots in the notes attending, instead of projecting unity. this event could end up as a symbol of the world more divided than that. the g. 20 summers on out just a sense of belong to walk down any street in part sales to feel the presence of defend community and the everyday heroes keeping the communities together. lopez overs logos a to 0 visits. it's offensive community in toronto, canada, where locals are fighting to maintain their identity in the face of sky rocketing rents and justification. a sense of community on the jersey to freezing winds and rugged terrain and at times seem impossible. but for ask on

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who c h a game september on out just what we do. and i'll just, sarah is trying to find those 2 stories and he's the people who allow us into their own lives, dignity and democracy. the i my name's side indo. here, top stories on out is there a head of sea dogs were and in council has met cause a mirror site to me. been home at all tony and joe ha until 5. so i'll go ahead and discuss bilateral relations and aid before his visit. the general does all of the permit that you rock and support forces. these 4000 people have been killed since the war began in april. how soon had bought a has moved. this is quite a significant.