the slow noon from neighboring countries around the clock to save him, not receiving medical treatment. it is amazing to be above ground again. i was under ground for far longer than ever expected within, with an unexpected medical issue. i want to immediately think of a fraud. reggie shirley, the, the support of the turkish government saved my life. literally no questions asked. the ssl just say are these other top stories now, at least 1900 people have died in eastern libya, off the storm down, it will cost severe flooding. west affected cities, thoughts we've done that well thought to say to dams, best in the heavy rain full china has this update from tripoli. all eyes are on the city of. don't know, it's been

a devastated after these downs collapsed. i mean we've, we seen pictures of entire neighborhoods washed away, and the forty's have yet are having finding it very difficult to enter the city. the roads have been blocked off some destroyed due to the floods. so people are extremely worried about their loved ones that remain in the city. international teams continue to search for survivors of more real cuz devastating us. great is claimed almost 2900 nights. some survive is a helping to search for missing family members. north korean lee that came that john earnest reported to have arrived in cosign in russia area. north korea's work has daily websites showed pictures of kim ward and a train for russia in a significant legal victory full for the pains janice, maria resar quotes as rule that rest said no to avoid paying taxes on the sale of

shares and wrap the to for investors full price that rodrigo to, to tell you how it weighs that campaign against rafter, pulling into fake news opposite sponsored by american spies. chile is mocking the 50th anniversary all devoted to against the elected socialist presence. salvador allende that brute general goes to administrative power. hundreds attended the memorial, the presidential palace in the capital, santiago, the owners of thousands killed or forcibly disappeared on the finish his room. and the us food and drug administration has approved updated cobit 19 vaccines. pfizer, in, within a set of new shots of design to boost protection against the latest variance. if the a approval follows a late summer rise in hospitalizations in the us and other countries. well, those are the headlines. the news continues here and i'll just, they're off to the stream. stay with us.

the challenges with the hi, i'm josh rushing. welcome to the stream. electric vehicles have been held as a central to reducing corporate emissions in order to avoid global climate catastrophe. but as a transition to battery powered vehicles, picks up speed questions remained about the sustainability of the cars and the environmental and social harms that go into making them. so today we ask how sustainable are electric vehicles? first, let's hear from jim warming 10 human rights watch with his thoughts commentary cause i'm definitely part of the solution to climate change. about building

electric cause means we need more materials, things like co lithium, medium and steel. and getting those materials out of the ground to my name is often reading damaging to the environment and to human rights. so as we transform the car industry, we will also go to transform the mining industry transformed the way we source with materials. that means doing a lot more recycling. but it also means treating the ecosystems and communities where these advice or materials are found. with the respect that those communities in ecosystems does a. joining us to discuss alyssa kendall, professor of civil and environmental engineering at the university of california davis, in oslo. christina bu, secretary general, the norwegian e b association. and with us from london, henry sanderson, author of both rush, the winners and losers in the race to go green. and of course you,

we want you to join this conversation as well. so see that box over there. we have a live producer waiting to get your comments to me so i can get them to our guest. so how about we do this thing together, right. all right, henry, i want to begin with you. can you set us up here with one why it's important to transition to a base, but let's just begin with that. why is it important right now to transition to this? yeah, started to reduce carbon emissions and limit the time is from climate change. we need to colonize pretty much every, every sector on transportation is one of those key sectors which accounts for, you know, about 1516 percent of tribal carbon emissions. and as the r dcc set this week, we have a window of opportunity. we need to move fast on what certain portion of our electric vehicles is. we have the technology at scale. now we have a cost of come down a lot and electric vehicles, i think what for,

for most people. so what we need to do now is scale up batteries, scale up electric vehicles and replace the um, you know, eventually the 1500000 vehicles on the road. but it is a massive task ahead of us. but the good news is we have the technology at scale and the costs have come down significantly in considering the environmental news this week died, bcc report came out saying that we've got about 10 years left before it may be too late to stop what's coming. this, this transition needs to happen fast. we turn to norway where i think 80 percent of new car sales their r e b is compare that to the us where it's going past year. but when we up to the 5 percent, a new car sales or a v's. so my question for you, christina, is how does a society transition quickly a not because i imagine they're all sorts of affects that happen when you shift that quickly. yeah. and uh, just to make sure we talked about the same thing, ease uh, 80 percent is does, doesn't include plug it hybrids. it's uh,

fully electric cars. uh. so that was uh, last year and then now we are actually uh above that as well. so far this year, so uh and what norma is done is really simple. it's possible to copy for pretty much every country. it's all about green, texas. so it's about taxing petroleum, diesel engine cars on the sale of the car, and then uh, not detox east because these are still more expensive to, to manufacturer. and therefore consumers, most places can't afford them. and in our way, we've managed to make the prize more or less equal and that has resulted in, in may same development. the last 10 years we've moved from a 3 percent market to 2 to above 80. while we have some video comments for people in our community, that's in a met on this, this is from david, right. but he's

a senior engineer at union of concerned scientists here. listen to this. transportation is the largest cause of he trapping emissions. the united states and passenger vehicles are the single largest source within that sector. switching from gasoline and diesel cars and trucks to electric vehicles needs know, tailpipe emissions that are harmful, the human health and fuel climate change. even considering manufacturing electric vehicles are responsible for less than half the lifetime global warming emissions of similar gasoline vehicles. so switching to electric vehicles as soon as possible is critical to avoiding the worst impacts of climate change. a. so alyssa, after a century a being on fossil fuels for cars, it seems like we hopefully learned some lessons, maybe about the way not to do this. and this is a chance to kind of start over and start over a new what are some things that we should be looking for here for the way that this industry is going to change the, the automobile industry in the coming years?

yeah, that's a great question. so, i mean, i think what we've seen is that the, the world is asking that we don't undertake this transition moving away from internal combustion engine vehicles to battery powered vehicles without improving our history of the communities at that are effected by the production of vehicles and in particular, the battery for electric vehicles and asking that we do better. and i think we're seeing a movement in many parts of the world, but particularly in europe to really push for up for different rules for how we make batteries and make sure that some of the human rights violations and environmental disasters that are may occur. and really we prevent that. so i think that we are, we are looking to make this transition sort of to avoid the mistakes of, of the last 100 years as we do undertake this transition. the other thing to point out of course, is that we need to be carbonized, our electricity grades along with vehicle electrification. and if, if we couple those together, that's where we get those really deep reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and

other pollutants. so this is a 2 pronged effort electrify the fleet and the carbonite c electricity grits. i want to bring in some comments off of youtube. people who are watching this right now. this is from jen tier, dano, a mystic mentor, says, don't we need gas, an oil to make a vase any way henry, i'm going to bring that to you. but there's also a video comment that i want to bring in, because it's not just a lithium in the battery. it's other mentors, minerals, as well, like cobalt right down in the congo here. let's check out this video comment 1st. one of the most urgent ethical considerations regarding the manufacturer of electric vehicles is the mining of cobalt cobalt is used in the battery packs of most electric vehicles and about 3 fourths of the world's supply of cobalt is mind and rather appalling conditions and the democratic republic of the congo, hundreds of thousands of people work in highly toxic hazardous and dangerous

conditions to scrounge cobalt out of the ground and feed it up the chain to electric, vehicle manufacturers and big mining companies have destroyed the environment clear cut millions of trees and dump toxic affluence, every day, into the earth, air, and water in the congo. so, henry, i want you to talk about the problems with the, this kind of new extraction industry. but i'm going to play one more video for you as, as perhaps one of the solutions. i'm not sure if you've seen this, but it says kind of battery passport and maybe we can talk about that as well. to check out this the battery passport creates a digital twin of the battery that stores all information about the battery in the cloud. from where the minerals and metals of the battery are mind and refined to where and how the cells are the battery or meet. and where the cells are put together to form the battery that will go into the vehicle. the battery guessing id numbers, a bar code and other information which are sent to the digital twin in the cloud.

the digital twin hold all the important information about that battery and the battery passport platform pulled all of the digital twins from all over the world. all right, henry's, i need you to reconcile this for me because i read it's the new source all the time from the condo, or you see, you know, kit kids out there digging this up and really dangerous conditions. uh, not environmentally friendly. and then i see an animation like that with a really chip or music and i'm trying to figure out why it is this the or radical, or is it actually going to be better this time? yes, so there's a really good question. so taking, taking that the 2 questions on, on the oil, and the view is exactly right. and if you look at the lithium ion battery emerged, steves, especially in china, on the they can contain a material co graphite. and some graphite synthetic graphite is made using feedstock from the oil industry. so fossil fuels is going directly into

a lot of lift them on batteries. and also we need these on fossil fuels. that's a nice mining, right? sir. most minds use diesel trucks. they use fossil fuels, the process, lithium, many people don't realize, natural gas is part of the process. so it's very hard to get rid of natural gas in the process of processing and let them send us the fossil fuel uncle. and the co tango is ready for all of a sudden are actually reading the book of that person who submitted that video clip . and i painted the all see myself and it is incredibly problematic. but, but what's happening and why i write my book is to open our eyes to the supply chain in the hope that we can improve it. and we're seeing assets by that, the government um, by all the groups to try and improve the situation to try and make sure these people get, get if that are a price get safety equipment, etc. of course it is a huge challenge and no one's saying that is going to be perfect tomorrow,

but we shouldn't let the deposit be the enemy on this energy transition. we have to move towards the heaves and we can improve the supply chain, right? as well as if it went away the problems, we can apply our innovation and skills to improve it until fossil fuels. we come to cobb and i as the mining industry, we can do carbon eyes on the way these materials are processed. i'm calling about what we need to see is. yeah. some, some we need to step in and engage with the c and acknowledge our responsibility for this call this coming out of the country. we need um, alternative companies due to property engaged as a guide into the country to visit um, cuz for too long, especially for consumer electronics, we've just turned a blind eye to, to the colors the guy. and so what are devices all small things? so the screen good thing is involved is because people care about how it's made me, christine the jump in there. yeah, i could add to that because uh, i had an organization in norway who, right, that represents more than

a 120000 navy drivers. and we've lost them an almost 90 percent to confirm that they are very eager to know how sustainable a battery is and how, you know, workers' rights are, you know, looked after and so on. so and, but i think also we have to look at a bro, the picture here and we can go in, especially it's been a lot of talk about congo, but we also have cobalt, other places in finland, for example. and another thing is that i understand the national, which has focused a list on congo and, and tries child labor. and so, and they're not, they're not saying that we should start to import and stop importing nicole from congo at what we have to do is to make sure that just the whole value chain or battery is, is sustainable. and that we know exactly what's going on because there are also

mines in cobalt that are as well and well regulated and good minds, but they're also irregular minds as well. so we have to make sure that, i mean, it's not good for the people to come go that if nobody wants to trade with them either. so we have to sort of think about the whole value chain and i am as we were talking about earlier, europe is really up for frontier with the news about you regulation, demanding a demanding basis and the university about since you could also say that with ease it's actually more focused on by speakers, cobalt has been used with the fossil fuel cars for a long time as well. it's also used to fossil fuel cars. there's only when we get more and more mental li friendly cars that we're focusing on it. so in that sense, you could say that and the fact that we are getting a piece of the road is also helping. yeah. helping the whole production allison to did you want to jump in there? yes. cohort. i, i also wanted to add, i think,

just as christine said, it's wonderful that we have much more focus on the environmental, you know, sort of the environmental impacts and environmental justice concerns with the electric vehicle and battery value chain. in particular. i want to highlight that, you know, it's easy to start demonizing this one part of the vehicle is this, these challenges of these new supply chains that are forming? mm hm. but actually this is a great advantage because we're not going to change the fossil fuels of value chain just by continuing to drive gasoline vehicles. and so we can do better, but we shouldn't allow the challenges of the value chain to prevent us from electrify. yeah that's, that's a good point to us, but i think we won't do better unless we actually see where those challenges are. and christina, you mentioned cobalt comes from other places. i'd like to bring them one of those other places. this is a, another voice from someone in our community named stephanie king killing son. and she is a documentary filmmaker listen with us or so when people buy that shining tests,

i don't think about the costs that it's being paid to create that vehicle. that is being paid for elsewhere and other parts the world that is not in the western market in the western and closely followed by western media. and so when we want to think about 2 vehicles, how can we have that in a way that has governmental oversight, corporate responsibility, and that is, well, washer well maintained when all those being built this that, you know, invest car is going to save the world and that simply isn't too, and there's so much in cost that it's being paid for by other people. and, but if in parts of the world like mind, which, which definitely says parts of the world like mine, she's actually talking about indonesia. and that's where a lot of nickel nickle comes from. so here, check this out. yeah, press on to the thumbs up the their minds down here. the mode is all over the see. now where can we go? how can we survived for the economy for education,

the parents today already struggling? so what can we expect for the next generation, given the current condition at the surrounding environments with y'all? i mean, what if i'm not any phone thing is that i couldn't believe all the club trees had been cleared. i was shaking. it was our source of income. we were dreaming about sending my child to college. when we went up to find the trees were all gone, i was devastated me. so alyssa, it seems like there's like an end balance in the relationship with, with wealthy countries like the us and in norway. great, great examples that need this stuff, but they're getting it from countries, as we've mentioned, condo and indonesia, uh, how do you correct that and make sure that they're doing it in an appropriate way? yeah, that's a, that's a great question. there are so many burdens faced by lower and middle income countries in particular that are providing materials for electric vehicles and potentially taking used vehicles at the end of life as well. and so they, they are likely to, to have

a disproportionate burden associated with these vehicles and not have the climate in their quality benefits. that richer nations are, are benefiting from of, i do think there, there are huge challenges to this, but the work to put together, for example, the battery passport. so there can be accountability in the value chain is extremely important. and again, europe is leading the way on that. i also think the consumer demand for and for materials and for manufacturing practices that are, that are more just is also really important as a driver for the industry to do better. and then also to have really, you know, explicit, convers, not just conversations the policies in place to make sure that we don't have sort of a race to the bottom when it comes to sourcing of materials, but also disposal of batteries and, and again, you know, having a holistic approach to policy the way that europe is trying to do with its battery regulation, i think is a really good model and a good start in places like the us for example,

need to need to start thinking about that since we, we haven't really pursued a holistic policy. so henry, not just the production of it, but i'm gonna bring in a voice from the youtube audience, who's watching right now named ben ben. mickey says wire electric vehicle, so expensive. and when will they fix the planet? and part of that, what i'm wondering is, is when will we see these kind of vehicles be affordable enough that the global cell will start to buy them? when will you see them driving all over africa? latin america? and how important is that to yeah, sorry, sorry. is that a question for me? um, what we need to do? yeah. so what we need to do exactly right is make electric vehicles um, super cheap side of my office, like in the southeast asia. um, we mentioned engineers or come kind of for them and also um, let's be honest uh west and markets as well. and the way to do that is um there's another battery technology called lithium on phosphate that you know, most bizarre, a take on which has no nickel a no called an honest cheaper um,

it has let them. but the fact is, you don't get as much range as batteries with nickel and cobalt. so the question is, um, you know, time consumers except to arrange vehicles and governments need to invest in charging infrastructure, say that these cheaper vehicles can, uh, you know, it could be charged um, easily uh, but this is definitely the route to, to penetrate um, you know, markets that need uh, cheaper electric vehicles and also, um, there's just another technology coming out called sodium on was just uses sodium, right. which is basically table salt. so that's another way to get cheaper that 2 vehicles. so i never really know innovation goes out and it's thing um, it's okay, at least a go for us. i'm so sorry. and so i, i just 2 things. one, i actually think of that we need to step back from assuming that the world, including well the nation should be electrifying every vehicle on the road and some work that we did we, we found that we could reduce material demand by more than 90 percent. if we

pursued transit active mode alternatives to a personal vehicle dependency me and i think that car dependent places, well the nations like the us should pursue multi pronged approaches and not electrify everything. i'd also like to add that in globally electrified $2.00 and $3.00 wheelers have displaced more oil than all of the electric vehicles that have been sold all the passenger vehicles. and i say this because electrification is going to look different around the world. and we should be a looking to electrify 2 and 3 wheelers, which can deliver great air quality benefits for him in areas as well as electrified buses, which will probably play a really important role. for example, in electrifying latin america and africa. that's interesting. so this isn't just the one for one replacement from fossil fuel to electric vehicle. you're saying we really need to re think the entire transportation model. yeah, absolutely. okay. yeah, yeah, christina, could i just, i'm not sure if i'm disagreeing. i'm just wondering what and of course,

what we can agree on, i think, is that all new vehicles that enter a roads should be sarah nation at that's, i mean, or else we keep, you know, poor in new cars or a new vehicles on the road that will be there for many years and pollute. so what we can agree on if we are to sell vehicles, if we are to sell cars, those cars should be able to run on renewable fuels. and that is electric cars. but so that's gonna be true christina. those cars need to be more affordable for everyone in the apartment in america, they're still kind of luxury. know, i think this is also a common misconception who buys new cars, who buys new cars in norway? 8 out of 10 who buy a new car in norway? a buy a car in norway by 2nd hand car. most people don't buy a new car. those to buy a new car in any country, whether it's indonesia or if it's norway or in the u. s. at least a norway,

half of them are, are companies the other half is people with a certain income. absolutely. and it's the same in poor countries as well. but these people, if they can afford a nice car, you need to make sure they also can afford an easy instead. and that's where green text is coming. you put higher texas on ice cars and you allow ease to compete. so the people that actually afford new cars can't afford to meet the people the wait list. money in every country will have to wait a few years until these eaves are available in the 2nd hand market right now. that is starting to happen in our way. we have a growing 2nd home market for ease because we've been selling these cars force for us some time. but we can't. we don't think that the solution is to make cars, to cheap. because that's, that's a, that's not going to help us. if they start to cheap, everyone will buy it, buy a car. and so at least assess we, we need to,

to make sure people are also using public transport, working, cycling and, and so one car shouldn't be too cheap, but easiest should to compete with all his car. so i think that's like what your spot on, christina, but in the us, alyssa, do have new taxes, higher taxes don't often go over to it. didn't. would that system work in the us? do you think that could even get that through? you know, there's no way that additional taxes on gasoline and diesel vehicles will, will happen in the us. i think it will have to be reflective of genuine cost reductions in electric vehicles. i think henry pointed out that things like lithium iron phosphate batteries that are coming online. not only do they have the benefit of of not including nickel and cobalt which are not only expensive materials, but also materials with human rights. and environmental issues will probably reduce the cost of, of electric vehicles and make them cost competitive with a gasoline and diesel vehicles, especially from a total cost of ownership perspective. i think other countries in the world can

implement these taxes. in fact, when we, we have a few examples of lower income countries around the world or middle income countries that rely on the 2nd in vehicle flows, especially from europe, japan into us. and some of those countries have implemented exactly the tax regime . unimed points that christina is highlighted and they had massive adoption. i read recently that mongolia, for example, which favored hybrid electric vehicles, had a fleet of 30 percent hybrid vehicles on the road, much better than what the us has achieved with the tax regime. so i do think christine is solution, well it's not going to happen in the us is really an excellent solution and many other parts of the world. i mean, it sounds like this a multiple solutions, different solutions for different parts of the world where i work. but i think everyone's in agreement that needs to happen right. it definitely, luckily it's true, at least acellus assess and a 100 assess is will become cheaper. right? so it's saying i've got to write a model, right, therapist, we're out of time. i want to think all 3 of you a list. so christina and henry for joining us today. and for you,

if you're watching on youtube or on out 0 english for joining us. and until next time, we'll see you then the the award winning documentary is from around the corner, which is 0. on county, the cost, the victim of global warming, africa age, the become a clean energy powerhouse. leaders on the continent and calling for debt relief to

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