of the divided and embroiled in a civil war. libya is hit by devastating floods. thousands are dead and thousands more missing our country deal with this to that and how our political arrival res, affecting rescue operations. this is inside store the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much in room a state of emergency. in eastern libya, widespread floods of killed thousands of people and left thousands more unaccounted for entire neighborhood. there underwater and trapped families desperately need help. but libby, as political divisions appear to be getting in the way the countries to rival governments have their own resources and their own approach to this disaster. without the united response rescue operations have been inevitably delayed. so how will libya manage this devastation and candace crisis be a catalyst for political unity, or will it fuel rivalry? will explore these issues with our guess in a moment. but 1st, this report by katya lopez, are the over whelming, floats, have swept through parts of eastern libya, swamping roads, destroying buildings, and taking thousands of lights. patients and medical staff were forced to evacuate several hospitals with flood waters tramping, many people that said, this situation is horrible. it's extremely set. does the people suffering from the

floods and we haven't been able to reach them? the hardest hits city is there are no home to about a 100000 people. there's devastation as far as the i can see, 2 of the cities main sams collapse of merging much of the city and drowning residents via see why they've done that. definitely. medina, 3 bridges collapse completely causing, wanted to spread into neighborhoods. entire areas will move to the see along with the residents locked roads and collapse. infrastructure have delayed rescue efforts . and officials who visited the area says lifeless bodies can be seen everywhere. libya's political divisions are complicating rescue efforts. the country has to rival governments split between east and west. they are each supported by different arms groups and foreign governments. both sides are calling for aid and assistance

. why add to tell you how to count on by all the official buddies, especially libya, central bank as it should provide urgent financial support. so those carrying out they what can i can go ahead with the reconstruction. the number of reported systems both dead and missing, vary depending on which government faction is that libya has to be there from scratch. because uh we, we had uh for the 2 years of had to get to somebody. he never kids about this infrastructure. and then now uh, also after, after that, if you're using this a bit, i was still fighting for a sort of power may make things worse in a country already struggling with political instability and poverty. this disaster as another layer of english. and despite their differences, both governments agree, the death tool in eastern libya will likely rise significantly. katia lopez again

for insights story. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests in tripoli is the law. oh, but bush, political analyst and former senior adviser to both negotiating team and the high council of states and the libyan government in the national accord. in doing this is honest with commodity founder and director of sonic institute, the 1st public policy, think tank and libya and also in tripoli is mikella survey. unicef representative for libya. a warm welcome to you on thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. mckinley, let me start with you today. what have you and your colleagues learned about the scale of the devastation thus far and, and do we have any clearer picture when it comes to the magnitude of this disaster? yeah, so when we start to get to the ports in the morning, uh, yesterday it was uh, it didn't look like this can uh we have 20 to 50 beds and uh, a few displays. but then the report cards are coming from the more data and then from there, not specifically and there where the,

the ticket became really high. now we're talking about between 2005000. that's so they delay to this 5000. we talk about 223-0000 displays in debt and how long there has been the town that hasn't been mostly affected. we're talking about, you know, several 100 displaced also in, in been guides in other areas. so the magnitude this came up this afternoon is much, much higher than what was in, in the early hours of yesterday and damage specifically, it has been hit apparently 2 times haven't been cut a lot have collapsed. so that's, that's where the efforts are now, in big guy, the situation seems to be calmer, but the area affect it is very, very large. and kelly, if, if i could ask you specifically about what you and your colleagues have been able to do a thus far, or whether it's in, during that or, or other cities or other areas inside libya, has a actually been able to reach any of those hardest hit areas as of yet. so we are

working with our partner the prices to do a major assessment best at this phase. now we send supplies from treat police, so they are nowadays sion been guys and then they wouldn't be dispatched today. we sent some medical supplies 410000 people, hygiene kids for over a 1000 people and some clothing kids. but this is a drop in the ocean compared to, you know, the needs of the ground. so there wouldn't be also a un inside agency myisha, of course, the teams of the crescent and some of the apartments that are on the ground. so we count on that most of the nation assessment, but there will be a un interagency, to assessments in the coming days. the situation is creeping code because of the numbers we've talked about. i mean, the number of the states that are really high, the number of missing people are high. and so we expect or so high levels of family separation is high level of shelter needs, you know, or what the systems we have you ever dictated. so this game is, is really

a tremendous mckinley. i just want to also ask you when you talk about the scale of this right now, i mean how much concern is there at this moment that the number of dead that the number of missing a, that the number of displays may rise exponentially, may rise. that much more in the days ahead. so the number of missing people what this concern and because was quite high. uh, yeah. so the deal charges were talking about $10000.00 people so that they really concerning thing is through the electricity and the naturals were cut off. so it may be that many people were also stranded in remote places or in their houses and could not be reached. but it is also true that the number of i mean those 10000 missing was, was really high. so we expect them fortunately this, these numbers to go off, of course only to being on the ground. it wouldn't make a difference. so we are really, what can we do? the target is to ease all the, you know, a to facilitate on the boxes and then being really great the allowing us to, to,

to, to, to respond to so for now it so, so the issue of, you know, libya was transitioning out so she might need perrier response and so, and you know, we don't have a lot of supplies and a lot of resources at this time be because, you know, i will respond to those more development oriented. so now we're focusing on getting those resources on the ground as soon as possible. so let me ask you, 1st of all, how will libya actually be able to deal with this disaster? and also, is we'd be actually prepared or equipped to deal with with the devastation of this magnitude. no, absolutely not. libya is not prepared in any way for such a disaster. this property is unprecedented in the, in the recent libyan history and the circumstances of split governments and lack of infrastructure and lack of preparedness. the city of, uh,

i've done that just uh 24 hours ago for the an emergency committee to deal with the disaster. and now we have any of these numbers. fantastic numbers coming out. uh and uh, i don't think there is anything on the ground to help the people over there now, and they all rely on their own to help themselves and know government health has come so far as alignment. let me also ask you about how much do you know so far about what conditions are currently like in, during that, i mean has any international aid actually been able to make it there as far as what you've heard, or i didn't uh, have from uh, relatives uh that are in delton uh and friends. uh anything about uh a company then people are concerned uh like your uh, previous guess suggested about the number of uh missing uh the phones uh don't answer and the day the total is rising. uh. busy every hour

or so. uh and people can do anything about what they see. the disaster is uh is, is just tremendous. and no one is the, is help. and the, the, the, the, the government, the government told them to, uh, set them for a few. and people have to stay in that houses instead of giving them the instructions on how to evacuate before the disaster hit. so this is the magnitude of, of government complacency and government failure to deliver on basic needs of people of safety. as you heard slot there a moment ago, talking about the fact that libya has to rival governments. i want to ask you how much more does that complicate the picture? how much more does that complicates rescue efforts? does that complicate a delivery efforts? it certainly does. it complicates all those things that you mentioned,

but i would like to add 1st and foremost, but this is not just an act of god as much as mother nature being even improved as many, much like the pain. so it means yorba just gave us days a lot. i had a ahead of time from greece without storm killed 6 people. so we had days an hours ahead of this to be able to prepare because there are responsibilities, the cost as to rival governments. but as the local councils, so local authorities that i'm responsible for that and it's going to be a national army for they will have to resign forces that were responsible for what unraveled in days they had. unlike those in morocco, the way the tectonic plates moved and they had seconds to prepare for it. they had days and hours as the dams began to swell and slow up very slowly. they had those hours to deal with that plan and evacuation. they didn't raise dealer and by the deal opposite, and they told people to stay indoors. so this isn't just the evil of a, by the nature of this is the evil to amend its being to it's the incompetence of the complacency that amendment haven't much themselves for the last decade. waging

war on doesn't i wish they did in 2018 when they left. the court of the amnesty quotes are dead injured or in j o. this place until the end of the quarter of the city is on the water. and so the stench of the bodies that is weakened around that is not mother nature's fault. it's mindful as these 2 individual is to level functions, it goes into them as well because they called coordinates the items that they have to with the despite the conflict. and that competition is what the corporate and collaborating about making libya's h interim government in less than a decade and does come to elections because the elections are important. the national level by local level elections are planned, the local elections of a several weeks ago. and they were blocked by the national army because they didn't want anybody but military room has been a true for you, has been incompetence, filed men with moustaches that have been being donuts, was libyans afflicting across the street. so these, the, the, the reason why the comfortable the night now with international relief organizations and using look as well as these vibrant civil side teeth is because

there is my civil side just because in that cuz most of them were in jail on my side of what displace scientists hold them? it was said to honest, let me also ask you were talking specifically about durn and i want to ask you even before the storm, what was the infrastructure like there? i mean how, how prepared or prepared was a place like during that for a storm of this nature. the number one, the time that was speaking about was built in 1977 by yugoslav, engineers us lobby is not a country anymore. hasn't been maintained down to the former, could that be reaching a site and it hasn't been maintained on the national army who quoted the, the global initiative have been scrapping libya's public infrastructure. the infrastructure that is supposed to make sure that water goes under the city. you know, over the city, they've been scratching in the scrap metal. they have exposure to the tune of a $1000000000.00 every year since 2018. that is the, that's the, that's the relation to it shipped to the individuals, the governing that so you have actually part of that, that's

a and made sure that when the event did take place, it not only took the city whether it took the lives of a quotes or potentially of that city because a quarter of it is under, under water today. and it also comes into the un, into the lens and coordination as well. the human humanitarian coordinator georgette. got you on last week, came on the storm on twitter for having books, human rights activists from the east of the west of libya. so that also to blame. it also comes to the west. they've been given culture and given red carpet treatment of individuals for decades un leadership today like potentially has been shaking hands with individuals like people have to, i'm like those are responsible for this that divided by them either 5 or 5 inches and the par supply that had been benefiting from out hundreds of millions of funding from the tripoli. government was the hundreds of millions, but i understand why they're shaking hands with more criminals. bluffs, like criminals, less than a potter and trying to reach packaged them and recycle them for elections that will never happen. often around pick a to those look at elections could have saved lives. let's this not forget that

minor point. this is not a luxury or some assess the because today limits could have chosen leadership that would have taken accurate, responsible, and responsive actions. and instead, well, that'd be left alone to the flights and the sweets i've done a lot from, from your point of view. is there any chance that this particular crisis could be a catalyst for any type of political unity going forward, or is it only going to fuel this rivalry, this division even further? i hope something good comes out of this a disaster. i mean we see uh we see uh private uh, cars and trucks carrying gaps and all sorts of uh, materials to help the effected uh and this uh uh, it's a popular. busy move, but that's uh, creating this hopefully this will uh,

solidify the feeling among the libyans that they were brought up. they are brothers and sisters and the inter and the times of troubles they will come together. however, i doubt that the competing political and military a powers in libya with the will not any lessons from this except that they have to hand gold to power for as long as they can. and. busy we wish we see the display of this when i have to call the meeting and shares a meeting. the meaning of the, of the government officials was a a that i was supposed to be responsible for providing aid. and the prime minister is sitting there like a student in the principal's office, listening to a faith general, giving orders and instructions, and parked in his wisdom as to how to deal with disasters. i know how to prevent it

as those that's the way they dealt with this problem. this is the, that's the way they dealt with it before that happened. and now they're continuing that. so i don't see any positive thing politically coming out of this. but maybe it will help libyans understand that they need to move a, get us the political class that has presided over the country for the last 11 years . mikaela, if i could just ask you, it's been pretty widely reported in the past that she, mandatory and age groups in libya have really been chronically under funded for a long time. and i just want to ask you from your perspective how, how does that hamper respond to that is needed at a time like this. i mean, what kind of impact does that have on a response? it's such a time of crisis. you know, as i was just saying, we would have shifting out a few of whom, i mean 10 in just keeping, you know, some preparedness and some responses to you know, a lower level of complex, right?

so a lot of emergency funding is no longer there. the class was, you know, phase you now and so on that strong, it's true with that. we don't have the same resources that, you know, human would have or so down at this point in time um, at the same time is also true. with that we need to get out of the point of fix now and think about responding because there are a lot of people in need of help in the affected area. so we have access, we need to get there. we need to, yes, to see this society is not mean that are not planning your a non governmental organizations on the ground, but it's also true that there are means and the government has also quite resources compared to other governments to, to respond. so we are, he is un to we and it will help. and as soon as, if we're thinking of, you know, the media like save the needs of children and talking about, you know, show the safe drinking water and medical supplies. finally, be facing all of that needs to happen in the, in the days to come in quite fast. so yes, we have people for the donors to provide the resources because it's a,

this came is beyond the current capacity that we have the current, you know, supplies even that we have. um, we will do a flagship, the most likely is united nations. but of course, we also count on internet resources to do to support us. and let me also ask you about the fact that, you know, age groups are saying that tens of thousands of people may be displaced. at this point you were talking about the magnitude of the potential displacement crisis going forward just a little bit earlier. there's a fear that they wouldn't have any prospect of being able to return home. i mean, what are the major concerns right now when it comes to those that had been displaced, reaching them, getting them to kind of aid medical help food that they might need. so in terms of immediate life saving, as i said, it's about what resources are removed now and what supplies can be moved in as, as fast as possible. so as you, when we are part used to do that in terms of the construction,

that's another story that would mean, you know, more longer time resources for sure. there was a construction fund or so for them. and then guys, so we'd count on that to be, you know, little patient and then apply. because as i mentioned that would it be not on his course to be able to be able to boast of what their systems also have specific. because we know that several hospitals in phoenix are totally destroyed. so the dairy construction and kind of later requires resources that are beyond the current scale requires, you know, even development bank. so i know that there had been discussion was that including those financial institutions that can look at this, maybe internal displacement. um you know, in the last year they didn't use quite a lot of internal displayed depot. the number went down and so it was almost, you know, you know, part of what it was a couple of years ago. but at the same time this is, you know, another big challenge in terms of the construction. you're right. especially if i'm

gonna show that and, and housing point of view, but also for all essential services. so yes, we need financial institutions to, to come in uh for those longer time resource. and let me ask you from your perspective, is there any group? is there anybody either from within libya or, or from outside that would be able to effectively handle over seeing an aid effort right now we're a short answer, but neither cuz their release or failures that happened ahead of there's not what we have to focus on because of the same structure and the systematic failures i going to hamper i'm going to cripple any attempt to be able to coordinate what requires the search and rescue efforts that will require water and sanitation. that will cost psychological support. that will require the very least international experts that will help in these critical areas. now, to try to find those that may still be alive. but as the arrows go down,

the chances are then so far that you're going to be by very little there is going to be displaced from this also need shelter. and so it need something of epic proportions because what just happened was a biblical proportions. quarter of the city is on the water. i mean it's, it's something that we don't see and normal. so it is because normal city is a built to withstand these kind of things when they have infrastructure. there isn't that and for such as is because and it's, it's the collapse of one of the other cities around it is the water that came from southern cities that was piling on for days. those days are still affected. the 8 convoys moving across the country. no one does not appear on the back, they're going to be the, have the rain for hours and have to buy the rights for hours. there's one road that lives in the how much is the underwrite the leaves and imagine the only one that lives in was the only ro don't my smugglers. because the smugglers are the ones that have that roads built separately and spunk. if these kind of systematic legal failures that we have to start focusing on that, because of a thing that will cripple that international community contract gets responsibility . it spends money on trying to keep libyans and monuments been libya using such and

rescue efforts to push them back onto the show of funding essentially centers in libya, but it is not and is absolutely not available. now. where are the european union efforts, whereas the west and efforts, the next time that we say your opinion official going to shake one of his hands. remember that shaking hands with blood on them. so they have blood on their hands as well. so there's a, there's a reason this is not my big independent school. it's about shifting the responsibility from those incompetent officials, those that have lived in the hands of those that allowing these what 3 groups that we see now and done, that's a perpetuate. there's still thousands more that are going to suffer. is it still acting now? is the urgency of the matter that needs to be fixed? and if i still try and work with any kind of broken structures, it's not going to work. international efforts should be cool that i buy internationals and they shouldn't coordinate with those locals or is because they're incompetent that it's trying to work with individuals. the other. we have the numbers that people are showing that across social media, there are groups and that like done the zoom, for example on facebook that is coordinating the list of those dad and they're watching them on the schoolbooks. that tells you about the level of coordination of

these level functions and inside the royal functions themselves, by putting out press statements or putting up videos of himself coming up, roads with brooks. i'm putting it to ministry, pride music that tells you about the product is that these, these kind of rival functions does include him when he gets the national responses to try and look on the grease, which has already been a deal with this. i have a great relationship with the government, they spend a bit, whereas the greek support. whereas the, your opinion support. why is the money on the, the, when they're trying to help people from the doctor and the agency or from adult in the mediterranean c, y to know that we're looking to see them the most. so i want to talk more about the rivalry is going on inside of libya in the country has 2 governments, they each have their own resources, they each would have their own approach. one would assume to how to respond to this disaster. is there any clear sense at this stage as to who exactly might lead the response? who would be in charge of trying to deliver 8 qual,

uh, look, i mean, libya is unique as its complex is unique in a very particular way. is that the center of bank of libya and typically is bank calling both governments. the 2 warring factions being bankrolled by the centred bank of olivia and tripoli. that's how i have sold his pay and his soldiers . and that's how they say and his soldiers. uh now the question is that uh, nobody wants to give any credits to the other or give them a chance to get the credit at this might get in the way of helping people that aren't affected and delay. uh, any help. uh so. so this, the split government is a fact at the bank, but government day at the dimensions of the colonized government was did. 5 entry into the east of libya, few weeks after the it's got

a vote of confidence by a 132 votes. and 2 extensions have to refuse to look at the government and through the east. as a know, a i guess may be under pressure that he may allow me a call who is a help from civilian from nonprofit organizations and so on to enter the east and go to the internet. but the problem now is the like a, at a suggestive, is there a search and rescue operation which libya has no expertise in never exercise it. but on the small scale, this is a huge problem now. so now what mediates a worry so well, so we don't, we don't know who's going to help with that. so i'm sorry to interrupt you. um we just have a minute left. i see that on us is raising his hand and wants to get

a pointed honest, please be brief. be mindful the fact we just have one minute left. please go ahead . if we want to try and get money out of the central bank today, and libya which has billions and billions of dollars that have been accumulated from libya's massive oil wells. and the 1st thing that we need is a parliamentary low to be able to give us some kind of emergency funds. the parliament himself have been agreeing to disagree and failing to make any kind of laws that will respond reply and respond to this kind of a disaster. i've been blocking elections for the last 10 years. they need to be able to pass a lo so that we can have an emergency budget to deal with this, the money that they take out of that budget. so be given to international uh, agencies like the i the like the like the stuff. and they should be trying to bankroll this, so let me, let me, it should be bank. i should not be leaving the efforts international. believe me, efforts. libby is up showed themselves to be incompetent enough and bringing this cause, also to light. all right, so i'm going to have to stop you. busy we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there today. thanks so much to all of our guests

a lot because of commodity and mikaela server that and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website engineering. com and for further discussions go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. r handle is at a great inside story for me, how much enrolled in the whole team here, bye for now, the, the the

from intimate moments to majors, social change, the witness award winning phones from around an hour to 0. faster and photographer at every step. any opportunity to see a space spectacle is a good enough excuse to uses rooftop or because of a tree. this is a super fluid is super global. that's why it's beneficial to them is up close with the moon. so we can see from gaza to greece, focused on to india, japan, and do by reading through these gather to see the celestial event. every month, the full moon has a different name. the one moon, the wolfman, the stretch and moon, the blue moon, and the system in like this one. the moon's old,

it is elliptical. the term superman was coined in the late seventy's to refer to the point when the full noun is that it's closest pointed to the. since it's the 2nd full noun, it's also known as a blue moon. but it will be more than a decade until the next 2 to blue moon. for many that seems like you as a way the, the libyans that you have data is full but wiped down to the countries was environmental. disaster is bolden 5000. the test. a 1000 small, still missing the colors, so rama they want to go to their life. but headquarters here in also coming up a 100 initiative support. the goals, great leader says relations with russia will get top priority after meetings. lots .