a breathtaking tropical paradise. ready where its former protectors are now we follow through just as they put their lives on the line. the think it's all one now to 0. a new 100 is a friendship. the promise of north korea is lead of visiting roches presidents, all sorts of new era imaging and relations between the 2. what would it mean for the war? new cranes, should the west be white? this is inside story, the

hello welcome to the show. i'm sammy say that north korea and ross, you're appeared to be 17 by ties with a high profile visit this week. bye kim jamal and his health talks is like to me a futon and discuss defense corporation. many in the west questioning the timing. both nations are facing international sanctions. most goes forces fighting in ukraine. well, what all the 2 leaders hoping to get out of this trip then put back to our guests in a moment. but 1st, this report from symptom on a hand of the getting a close look north korea's leader given yahoo and got to see all the latest features of a russian made fighter jet on the ground. and disney hair this latest stop isn't rush as far east as part of chemist days, long visit to the nation. 2 days earlier, he met russian president vladimir putin a space space. it was their 1st face to face meeting and for years there been great

into the patient and the lead up to the summit. the north korean leader travel for about 40 hours is armor train. crossing the border on tuesday. the to help with the kremlin, called very substantial discussions, but little was revealed publicly i'm under the president who has shown a deep interest on providing a put unit to engage in a conference at a space launch facility. which is like the heart of a space power nation, and giving us a chance to gain deeper understanding of the current and future for space combination. many believe this meeting could mean new developments in the word ukraine and for north korea's military ambitions. we continue to urge north korea to meet its public commitments not to support russia's warn you find no nation on a planet, nobody should be helping mister pruitt and kill innocent ukrainians. and if they decide to move forward with some sort of arms, you will obviously we'll take,

we'll take the measure that and we'll move and we'll deal with it appropriately. but kim, don't appear to express support for children's war is of sheep. they get 20 years from now, the russian army and people have certainly been a great victory in the secret struggle for the punishment of the great evils. the claims page him on you and feeds an expansionist illusion, will create an environment for peaceful development. showing young is under heavy un sanctions for its nuclear and ballistic missile program. there are reports of food shortages in parts of the country as an economy worse. and then both leaders have items to trade and pressures at home that might push them towards the strategic partnership. on yes, kim says the trip has elevated their country's ties to a new level, but it may be china's influence that will prove crucial, since both moscow and killing young rely on it for trade. vince and monahan for inside story the

what i was putting on gas and now we have joining us from saul and right land called director of the north korea focused new site and k news in washington. jenny town, a senior fellow at the security focused american think tank the students in center and in moscow, android buckland or vice president of the association of russian diplomats, a warm welcome to on if i could stop then with jenny. so jenny was brought these 2 leaders together. what's from to this visit now? well, this is a relationship that has been deepening for a couple of years now, especially since rushes and vision of ukraine. the idea that, you know, there have already been rumors of cooperation of potential arms transfers from north korea to russia. i think part of the reason why we see an actual stomach now, maybe because north korea is just opening from cove it,

it says conjunctions. first time out of the country's sense, locked down in january 2020 but it's also coming on the heels of try lateral summit between the us, south korea and japan. so there may be some of this political signaling going on as well. where if, you know, the, the us and its allies are going to have these high level political meeting talking about their deepening relationship. so is the other side of that equation, a defending relationship. let's go with the. so andre line calls, when we talk about the pending relationship, what does it break down to? there have been claims that north korea wants everything from grain to help with the satellite technology, ballistic technology, maybe in summer ring technology. what do you make of it? the one to every c, as long as it's free of charge. it's a major problem most get in a multiple as

a nation which is very leading to pay exhibits. and the quite for so is a good question is more for the blog, z one every see as much as possible, but what they are going to get. and of course, in this case, rush raises and driving seats and it gets the rush. if you decide what is it going to sell and for beach price. all right, let's bring in perspective from moscow. we have andre backs on all of that. so andre, what does russia need from north korea? it's been reported in western circles, but russia simply need small alternative around small bits and pieces for that war . and ukraine as well. uh uh, i don't think that uh, correct noon and go is uh, is it main uh, uh you know, point of interest to know me are much more interesting. uh, in the far is starting a situation and uh,

it seems to be and this is the point of view or something. oh our experts. the thing that uh, uh, in the p there to come north got it can play a role which plays in the 1962 uh in the uh, in the struggle between moscow and a washing don't show the mainly what discrepancy now do you see the far eastern situation and mobile situation as a cool is stuck down to addictions between the, to me, with the super forest. and then you are url. that knows got a cont. busy in these, uh uh, this uh, you know, situation. so, i mean, what do you make of those claims? can north korea play a significant role? do you expect north korea will be providing russia with arguments and weapons as well? everybody is picking about providing all of these uh,

some of the bands and ms. charles from may, tina most got it. yeah, it's uh, 1112. what asked me because we do not need to this kind of help. as i told you, much more significant for us to make is the united states to then your additional, the insurance on that that i thought it was most cut exactly like it was in 1962. as i told you when cable was uh, or a main agent to be sure, gave this feeling to the united states of america. and uh, it was really important issue. and now we also at the. busy the point where we need to add something additional uh to uh, truck comes to all. busy busy of the stones, again the united states of america and this additional element can be and you kind oh well, um oh well then your uh, which should contact you its uh,

the most cutting. yeah. okay jenny, do you agree with that? the, this trip isn't necessarily about exchanging ministry hardware. it's simply a reminder to the west. but hey, don't forget, we have the north korea called but we can activate. 2 i don't think it's it either or i think it's both. i do think there, there has been expressions of meat on the russian side for additional artillery and munitions. and it is something that the north koreans can provide in, in systems that are already compatible with soviet, with russian systems. will it be game changing in russia as war and u. k? no, of course not. but it can help pro long or fighting efforts. but i agree with andre, the, you know, this is, this is a larger game that's being played here. and we are really seeing the reformation of these ideological blocks and security blocks. so you have the us led to security block with us out, create japan deepening relations with south korea,

japan's deepening relations with nato. and then now you also have real deepening cooperation and a greater sense of collective security going on between russia and china and north korea and north korea playing a really important role as an important security partner to both of them in this sort of block on block competition and so north korea does have higher political value and security value. now then it did a few years ago and i think we will see more of this play out from cooperation, both with russia and china. all right, let's go to sol again, getting the perspective of every line called best. so ultimately, what was the transfer of russian hardware mean for north korea? is north korea on the verge of a technological leap when it comes to satellites, and rockets, a will when it comes to what gets through ms. silas is

a remarkably successful in the accept a rating made at technology go lead around. 2017, lindsey successfully developed the fewest inter continental buddies, sickness i do, campbell is the russian across. phil, i would probably disagree as he is both andrea and jenny. i'm sort of expect that know thomasville, opposite russian technology is going to happen exactly. because why do you expect that, andre? it's because they don't see what process will take from it, because it's one of the syrian rail, the, to me rush, it gets all tillery round, and it's exec. but activity around, if you will, can come brought to, you know, how many a 2 liter grounds, no scary or should ship to russia to pay for some kind of sophisticated me. so to acknowledge. and once such technology is sent to no scary or actually we lose

control. wait, no scary and unknown for the bundle habit of 80 sailing 8 's 80. see have received from as a countries and they don't see why it's going to be an x. and this is not one of the do is a case, so the not viewable, nearly build something for themselves. they do accept a, uh, a sell it as a, so this technology to everybody who needs a nice miss out technology. and there are many companies and symbols, and they've gone to these new base to know scary enough to russia, but then, but you're sure the russian side and the stance is very about and all this stuff, all this, you know, decisions to craft and is a meeting at this space lodge for cd g ols is highly publicized. these is because they meet the fact that he ever seen for me looks like a political stroll. actually is that because skip directed the united states as a reminder of eve, i married comes to additive said in eastern europe,

or actually we will be able to create problems for the united states in east asia. however, i was, i would be the, i would say is a major target is social studies. not flushing but, but so why does it have been talks about possible saves of a shipment of the social security and immunization to ukraine and vine. most getty, till you tell of what you like, but most got to use a tiny country based population of less than 25 needles. big lead 25. it's probably really less and is see is the, the develop economy, you know, their own official data? is that bill cabinet? the gdc is $1600.00. it's about say, estimate this all, most scary of estimates provided to the yet they cannot spread, use much immunization files, getting a cut. and russia is good reasons to make sure that i mean,

use in the voting rather arrive to agree. so right. and then all right, let's give jenny it. yeah, you see, you might, you made the point, let's give jenny a, an opportunity to come back in on this. why don't we making too much of a big deal about this idea of the transfer of all, tillery some would point out the point which andre is making about the production capacity and also the trends the capacitive. so, so there's a couple of points here. during the trip, there was no talk about middle technologies. just to be clear, it wasn't that russia was demonstrating it was willing to cooperate and, and talk about technology transfer on missile technology that was really focused on rockets and, you know, potentially satellites. there has been, you know, this other tour of an aircraft factory. so, you know, but i, i agree. who is with andre in the sense that, you know, we're not talking miss old transferred missile technology. and i doubt that we'll see ever transfers of homeless little systems or anything like that. um,

but i do think there's a strong signal here that the north, that the russians are willing to work with north korea, even on distinction technologies including you know, satellites and, and, and rockets that will help advance north korea is capabilities more quickly than what they're achieving on their own and they have had great success on their own as well. but there are things that they can learn from that will help them accelerate their progress in terms of their production capabilities. you know, again, this is very unclear of what rushes even asking from north korea if it's just stockpiles, or if it is to actually produce more munitions. and i think there is a recognition that if they do want more and munitions and an actual factories, there are other things that rush i can do to help provide the kind of resources that are needed in order for that military industry to um, to pick up that top to pick up that task. all right you, what made

a point the jenny would you want to take to? i'll guess to moscow android bikes on those. do you agree with that? i think jenny was saying that she sees assigned, that russia would be willing to work with north korea on some of the sanction technologies. do you agree with that? as ross, you're going to ignore some of the transfer transfer. some of the sanctions rather transfer perhaps west and more of the technology to north korea that would undermine the western sanctions regime and attempt to isolate north korea. well i agree is. busy uh, there is a record to move it to a new element as far as the sanctions policy. uh, i am against uh, north country is good insurance. uh there is a big tendency in moscow and many, oh wow. busy observers and deal with a specialist. i saying that uh uh, we must terminate, terminate completely or put us a patients in, in the practice of sanctions against north dakota. yeah. because of the fed up with

this uh, sanctions, uh, uh, at the, in general in general. um and uh, in north korea to i don't know thing that to reveal but claim this policy but in today or jerome. so we're really more it more and more due to the development of the situation. but please take into consideration that we all know at the very specific juncture or we are of the 3 or more against the collective wrist. as in morse code, they call it. busy so additional opportunities for us to have more opportunities in this war, raging against the risk of basically somebody uh, but uh, you know, significant and. busy useful additional facility, so no study uh is uh, also among of those new elements. uh to be, uh, you know, as a plus uh for the present day opportunities to prepare for univision before. okay.

those are interesting points. first of all, briefly jenny was the bottom line here. is this increasing all intensification of relations between russia and north korea? does a toll represent anything of the game changer for the war and ukraine? what's the bottom line that i don't believe it does. again, what, what north korea can offer can maybe help pro long north green or rushes or fighting ability, but this is not game changing. technology is here that we're talking about or in game changing numbers. okay. and right in sol in south korea, does it a tool make knowles korea, at least something of a more central player in the ukranian conflict from the, from the north korean perspective. does that offer that diplomatic standing? no, no, they can fed see it if they want it, but it's, it was a marginal change. it's a button on the grading integration versus a real business,

katie. and then me. and you should the absence of salisbury and immunization or presence of sounds, great media in the news, i'm not going to seriously and come in and friends, they eventually will come over the conflict. all right, andre, in moscow, is this a toll changing or impact thing then the global and regional balance of palate is russia building a stronger and to west and the lines through visits like this. and i see this up as a certain case. so confessed between uh oh uh, participants. uh in this, uh, our program is that, uh uh for groups. mainly it will change uh, the balance over paying change in certain aspects. the balance on file fall or in the far east and in general. but as far as the ukrainian store is concerned,

i doubt that that will be some immediate attraction for immediate help or assistance from the, from the part of the study and uh today uh, president uh when he was on setting the. busy relevant question, he said that we don't need it because we have already a 3 of the 3 companies, 1000 persons. so russian persons but to said that they are willing to join the me with the company. so we don't need any additional helps. busy from the barcode most, katia in person that lower anything else and both so well. uh, we must not exist already there, but you need you and the possibility of the north got here to feed us is, i mean it shouldn't be happening. no, we have 24 hours a day. uh me, with that uh me, with the 3 year old allow me to present you with the countenance of which is that russia has been seeking arms from other countries, even countries like iran. why would we believe that russia has the factories

working 24 hours a day is to produce everything it needs for the ukraine more as well? if that will be some additional opportunity. okay. uh. but 3, uh, speaking to both major and not measure proctor, it will be not a. busy busy major factor for the most carrier will send something it will not change the visit you is in your additional helper is useful, but uh uh, it's not the main element of the dealing this. busy present day uh, negotiations moves the north korea. i mean that was, that is something else so much, most of the significant dealing of you fair or ballade stuff. well, or these are the, the united states of america. right. jenny, i'm andre moscow mentioned an interesting point about the changing of balance of power in the far east. and i'm wondering what strong the ties between russia and

north korea mean showing young is now not so reliant on china. this is of course, assuming that north korea gets something of a good be back out of moscow. well, i know it, it's not, uh, i don't think it's is that black and white, you know, north korea has its own relations that's going on with china. china was the 1st ambassador invited back for an ambassador invited back to turn young. it is definitely cultivating that relationship as well. we don't see a real try lateral. um, you know, we don't see the kind of try lateral alliance forming in the way that it is us south korea, japan as of yet. but you know, in the last uh, parade, and the last major political parade and in military parade. in north korea, you did have russian representatives and chinese representatives there. so you do see, you know, a greater alignment as, as andre and moscow talked about, of, of,

you know, china, north korea and russia against the west. and especially against the us, you know, lead a security block in the region, and this is going to exacerbate that. but again, these are all trends that we've been seeing already. it's 6 celebrating some of that and it's taking him to the next level, but it's not necessarily a new development in the region. but one that we probably, i think a lot of people haven't been paying enough attention to. and now this is the reality of where we are. so just briefly going back to andre box on of in moscow when you talk about the changing of balance of power in the far east. what, what are you referring to? are we talking about north korea's power? we talk about the balance of power between russia and the us in the far east. uh uh, actually uh we are thinking about for is to insert and several angles and several

angles. uh, 1st of all. busy part of eastern is a very near to the 3rd day of the united states, our america. so we are thinking about over uh, making additional shitters. uh then your for the 3rd at the all the united states of america just to pull them out or comes to feel what we are feeling when they're speaking about their rockets on that, that of europe and confidence that the several compet is killing me. those 2 or capital that so many interesting. all right, forgive me for, for jumping in. but does that mean that and then do you think that russia will really help north korea to develop it's rockets? it's um, its missile capabilities. i mean, is it even in rushes in the how on the panel or on its border? yeah, yeah. sort of thing. so if there's an absolutely new element which was not one of you or to go into is a goal for even 2 months ago, or after these talk severe thinking about this opportunity to business. absolutely,

a new, relevant to the development of the federal cs very will come say to you some additional venture to that, that, that sense. so america and, and this juncture, and this juncture at this moment to run a recap so, so bets, me with 3 and political relations either un, really what blow to a 2 piece additional venture to or a clear cut to. and i me as victoria, me know, i'm going to jump it a little bit or watch what else is we will be in all interest. very interesting. let's go to andre though, in sol, and also the question, how would china view this, this deepening of relations between russia and north korea? and perhaps if what andres predicting that russian might enhance. north korea is miss heil. rocket, a capability, how aging view that that'd be easier for our fizzy legally to do it. most of them kind of siege in pm. if you think that phone call president 14

and say mister fulton don't do as advice you'll be a serious problem. is this your oil say? and you'd even use and misstep. we can set the coverage in p and i'd be more i'm talking about the idea about so you don't think it's going to happen. most gaddy abuse me. so yes, because china view not tell you rate x x a s q sup port for developing of the me style. and you clip potential in that was it? most of you kill somebody how we have a fortunately, abt, the zip, all this talks about the rock for being able of 14, you know, we've given technology is basically a kind of bluff, which is kelsey bluff up to put the additional impression of the united states advance it's happens to and it will stop because a very simple reason. china does not bode probably for ration of waiting period

technology chain that does not trust most cutty che no, no. is that no scary? it can be controlled and chain the would be far more heavy. it is no scary, a stable, but the quite and the level of control of chat and then it come on me control leverage. what most scary and russia is enough to stop any scene, leg zip should that they ever happen, but they believe it's not going to happy. anybody call i? it's been a fascinating discussion and it could go on for a lot longer, but i'm afraid time is out. so we're gonna have to find con guests jenny, in washington, dc. andre line calls in sole and andre banks on of, in moscow. thank you all for joining us and thank you to for joining the show. you can see the program any time again by visiting our website. i'll do 0, don't com. for further discussion, i would talk facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story should also join the conversation on x a handle. there is

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