or a prisoner swap between the us and the wrong. it's a rare agreement between 2 nations long at odd on nearly all front. so does this deal signal a new drawn and relations? or is it just a one? no. this is inside, stored the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much room iran in the united states rarely agree on anything. so a deal to swap prisoners is a river event. 2 years of delicate negotiations, broken by a thought that bore fruit on monday with inmates released by both sides to the iranians have opted to stay in the us with another, going to an undisclosed country while to or back into her on the 5 release by iran . or back in the us, $6000000000.00 of ronnie and assets have also been unfrozen. we'll be discussing

the significance of all of this with our guest shortly. but 1st, here's a report from michael some sharif on a rare day of cooperation between the us and the wrong. the emotional scenes as 5 americans held by the around for years arrived at this airport in compass captain though ha, an exchange. washington police 5, the radians unblock $6000000000.00 and pros, and it range in on from the high stakes diplomatic di was negotiated by cotton, which and he is at many points. there was no light at the end of the kind of it comes to the said mediation, both sides during the negotiations went through a lot of difficulty to get the find the language that was the approved over the financial humanitarian channel and also, but that was never an exchange at the christmas wolf is the 1st deal in years between 2 long time. at this res reiney in preston. ibrahim dry sea quoted,

a humanitarian move, you know, on the, on the issue of prisoners swap was raised. we announced that we were ready to do the swap as a complete click humanitarian work differently. this amount of to enact could be a step between iran and america. u. s. preston. joe bought and issued a statement saying he's celebrated the return of the americans, but would continue to impose sanctions. i mean, ron, what's provocative actions? his top diplomat, anthony blinked and said this will open negotiations on the nuclear deal. i'm not like the freedom of these on justly detailed americans has always been on a separate track and our engagement, or for that matter, lack of engagement with iran. so irrespective of what was happening or not happening, for example, in pursuing the effort to return to the nuclear agreement, we've been focused on working independently to bring these americans home. both sides have been hostile since the 1979 revolution in washington has longer posted

from expanding its nuclear program and its close ties with russia. and it one has been ended by us support for as well and involvement in mid least politics as well as its in position of sanctions. deals and split tensions have escalated off to $2185.00 and then pressed into one to go. no trouble pulled out of an international book, a deal for enrollment. this came back on it's nuclear program in exchange for lifting of sanctions. biden says he wants to return to the deals as long as they've gone complies. but a new agreement has not yet been reached. this could be a beginning for extended and for the talks on the to negotiations as well as lifting the sanctions against the run. but there's an issue whether that the americans will be able to do with before their election in the us or not. do you assess, cut the village? what yvonne's money unfrozen under the christmas will deal will only be spent on

humanitarian needs, such as food and medicine? definitely be welcoming yvonne that's in the group of an economic crisis that solving inflation and unemployment within the us. republicans that denouncing the christmas full as it run some payment on the consumption leave for inside study. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests. joining us from to her on is for is id is the head of the american studies department at the university of to iran, and the specialist and us the wrong relations roxanne farm on for my and joins us from london. she's a lecturer in modern and middle east politics at the university of cambridge and a specialist on middle east security. and scott lucas joins is from birmingham. he's a professor of us and international relations at university college dublin, and the founder and editor of the online new site e. a world view, a one welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. for i let me start with

you today. iran in the us of carried out a prisoner swap as part of a cut, their mediated deals, experts believe that this prisoners, what may be a step toward be escalating tensions between the us and the wrong. what do you think is this just the one off, or could this lead potentially to a saw in relations? you know, i don't think it's going to be a major shift in us policy towards the on, i think the by the administration. either unwilling or unable to clinic the past mistakes of previous administrations and come to a policy that's actually working for the united states. but i think if you get these type of agreements, small agreements, you can venture the reach and the stage of as the confrontation is not something that both sides and worry about on daily basis. so it's not going to resolve any major issues,

but i think it's one to step in in the right direction. yeah. for them, that's what i actually wanted to follow up and ask you about next because the present, right. you see when he arrived in new york for the you in united nations general assembly. um, he told media there that this could be a step in the direction of humanitarian action between us and america. i mean, at the very least, do you think that this could lead to more dialogue? you know, you're on the united states, have been talking for many years during the a while my best solution. you know, it's funny in minnesota, i broke all the records that they got to the number of hours that negotiated with the us find minister. and that's jobs that you find john kid. and, you know, and then united states have been in directly touching for many, many months now. so, so that's not a major problem. the problem is, is basically the difficulty is that, so we have in the us congress,

we have the public hands that oppose any type of the approach meant to get to eat on or the lowering of 10 sense of it to die. and we have some powerful democrats like that man in this was the chairman of the foreign affairs committee in the us senate at that as much in line with the by the administration's policies towards your pose, new to the agreement in 2015. he opposes the new to that agreement. now the, i think that's the level of confrontation is much more in washington when you compare that to test drive impact on. generally, people want to see less as tensions between the don't and united states. roxanne, i saw your reaction to something what fraud was saying, so i'm going to give you a chance to jump in and i want to get your take on this. i mean, what do you say is this prisoner exchange going to lead to more dialogue between the us any ron?

um you know, iran, them, us rarely agree on anything. so this is clearly a rare event. how significant is it? well, i think that it certainly was a prerequisite to then proceeding on to possibly re starting the nuclear negotiations. i think it is indicative of the fact that they're going to be small deescalate towards steps that are taken. i think both iran and the united states are seeing the advantage of undergoing an undertaking. transactional deals that are limited in scope and where both countries can claim a when and this definitely fell into that category. so i think there will be future smaller scale negotiations. there are a number of pots of money, of the rooms all over the world. so there's possibly one already being discussed

that is sitting in japan. and every one of these negotiations there are elements that both sides can when our can can gain from. and then both sides have a degree of compromise that they can offer. so i think they're trying to reduce that to the temperature at the moment. and i think what we're going to see is quite a few of these where both states are trying to get something out of it, particularly as buying moves into a, an election year. and in the run, of course, there was the presidential election is only 6 months after the american election, so they 2 will be looking for specific areas of achievement in, in these negotiations. scott, to you a secretary of state anthony, blinking seemed to leave the door open to potential diplomacy on the nuclear file

going forward. he described it as perhaps the number one issue of concern, but he also suggested that nothing was imminent. do you think this is the stance of the, by the ministration behind the scenes as well? a reflection reality. the ball is in toronto court on the broader question regarding the new per tops. and i take mister as doctors already gave us a very important clue here, which is that they have no real willingness at this point to really drive those talks for. let's get some facts on the table that are very important here. first of all, the past in early 2022, we were close to a settlement to revive the 2015 nuclear deal getting the americans back in after the trop administrations withdrawal. the genuine looked american sanctions and it was wrong that back the way they backed away initially over the question of the status of the revolutionary cars. then they backed away crucially over the question of inspections and nuclear facilities to september 2023. and that is even as you

and are talking about thank goodness, the release of the foster, just from iran and exchange for the 6000000000 iran here and fonts. iran has stepped off the restrictions on the instructions on the nuclear facilities. they are refusing to give up to video surveillance types. they are refusing to put cameras backend of the facilities. and in the past few days, they have withdrawn the accreditation. the designation is called one 3rd of the i. e, a inspectors. so in other words, they're taking a harder one on inspections as they continue to step up production of uranium in violation of the 2015 agreement. so while the foreign ministry says we want to deal with the americans, they said that 2 weeks ago, other elements of the iranian leadership are taking that harder line, which is we in fact are not giving any ground on inspections or on verification of our nuclear program. and i think dr is audio stance that he's not expecting or breaks from the task. it reflects that iranian leadership position. so i did you

have any reaction to what? uh scott was saying there because he was saying that essentially iran is taking a harder line towards the inspections by the i a e a. and i want to get your take on this. i mean, when it comes to potentially getting around a negotiating table again for the jcp, a way uh for the nuclear deal is that something you can see happening can progress actually be made? i agree with scott you're on is taking the harder line. and the reason is that the announcement for what you don't has been doing. and the last number of days came after the european members of the j 6. you a france u. k. and germany analysis that october 26. when the sanctions a number of sanctions on either on under j. c, p o, a is supposed to be listed, they're not going to accept it. that's part of j. c,

p o, a. i'm going to do what the americans did in 2018 in 2018 at trump left the need to new the agreement and the europeans few days ago. and i was that doug, going to officially violate the need to be, i agree with, you know, it is not possible for the it on to you, not less under the fall. know and multi last what are they agreements if the sides leave is the agreement. if they don't want to follow their parts of the bargain, it's not logical for these on to follow what you don't need supposed to do now. and the basic message is that if you cause difficulties for it on, if you arrive late, the agreement that was agreed upon in 2015, that's going to have some cost. and the cost is you're not going to have as much as access as you had before. then what scott said is correct. so then you don't allow

one 3rd of the inspectors to continue their work. that means that 2 thirds of the inspectors are continuing. there is action, so it's uh, you know, this, the queen has the sides. scott, i know you want to jump in, but i need to get a question to roxanne 1st and i'll give you an opportunity. roxanne, i want to take a step back for a moment, you know, getting to this point when it comes to the prisoner's swap, it took 2 years of intense negotiations that were mediated by caught. but this has been a successful outcome for caught the but the 2nd year of the negotiation saw mediators shoveling between hotels and door high. that means that both sides of this, the americans in the iranians never met face to face. so i want to ask you just how difficult it was to get to this point. well, the iranians and the americans have made an art of negotiating without being face to face. the same thing was going on and vienna during the jcp away negotiations

where it was the europeans that were shoveling between them. so i think it's very difficult. i think it's when people do a stablish for a poor personally, that you know, greater breakthroughs can take place. but i think this is the landscape and to go and address a couple of the points that both the other guests have made. it is a very toxic and extremely dangerous landscape, and i think it's always easy for one side or another to point out what the, what are the re run of the united states has done. but it's just been a series of usually setbacks. and then the occasional breakthrough is because another thing of course that happened right before the prisoners will have 24 hours before was at the united states and post further sanctions on the run due to the mass. i mean, the situation that happened to be an at the anniversary, right? at that point they impose sanctions on further authorities. any ron that are in the

security area. so it's just doesn't help very much in my view to look at a tit for tat. i what i seek as important is for us to see that it's a very high priority blinking has made just clear for the united states to, to begin to help, to reduce the amount of stock piling that's going on. and i think you run, send a, a signal about that in that. but as with the negotiations for the prisoner swap or wrapping up, it dropped it's, it's stockpiling of 60 percent enriched uranium for the 1st time. so i think is the subtle signals that need to be picked up. that can be the indicator that actually there is very much a chance of a next step. scott. all right, i saw you also reacting to some of what roxanne was saying there to so please go ahead and try and just put it very, very well in terms of reading the signals that are coming from both sides. so it's

important to look further huts. i mean, dr. is all these arguments that this is all because of the european powers that they were not going to list all the measures all come october is quite frankly, a bit of nonsense. the fact of the matter is, is that to expect the european powers by the united states to withdraw all the provisions of the 2015 nuclear deal, given that iran hash stock pile, 60 percent uranium, even though it is slow to production down slightly in the last quarter to expect everyone to effectively strike well, that's it. there's absolutely no reason why iran should have any terms with which it has to comply. that's ridiculous. and so for your want to then put it fist down and say, well that's it. we're going to restrict inspectors, we're going to continue as we have done for 2 years to not allow any access to video of our nuclear facilities. you know, at some point,

because of the around the economy of although this will be a switch to bit by the 6000000000. they're getting into the terms of the release of the product presence at some point because we around an economy they're going to have to come in from a call and talk seriously about trying to get in agreement, which on the one hand does begin to lift the american sanctions does begin to remove those actions that have been in place for years, gets the us back in the agreement, but also returns the wrong to the compliance of the nuclear deal. which says, 3.67 percent uranium production is what you responsibly should be producing. now at this point when they're producing 60 percent, that's a huge deal. and i'm afraid that's a gap that may not be easily managed before we get into the us. and they are running pro commentary elections in 2024. scott, you mentioned something that i wanted to ask you about next uh, the $6000000000.00 in unfrozen assets. and you also said something made me think of

that. you talked about signals coming from both sides and what i'm getting out of here is the fact that in the past couple of weeks you've heard different officials in the us, anthony ron, describing how this money could be use. so you have us officials maintaining that these funds can only be used for humanitarian needs. but there are also iranian officials over the course of the last couple of weeks, i've suggested the money could be spent wherever they want to spend it, which is it, i mean, is this up for debate, or is this something that has been clearly delineated in this agreement under the terms of the deal of that 6000000000 is do you manage coming out of traction? it is to be over same there. it is not being overseen by iranian officials. it is to be dispatched for food or medical items for other items that are database, humanitarian. so as to the head of the central back in iran admitted a few weeks ago with this deal with instruct. no,

iranian officials do not control that 6000000000 and for present, right? easy to say otherwise. it's misleading probably for domestic consumption. now, it is the case and to something which people are debating that iran does have a bit of flexibility because the money that it spends on through the amount of sending internally now that a contract for the 6000000000 pot, they could use that money for food and medicine for other items, they could use it for other domestic programs. they could even use it for the military. a point the critics of the deal have been pointing out. but now on the fundamentals, iran does not have unrestricted access to that $6000000000.00. when it is finally placed in trotter and overseen by tutorial authorities. roxanne, earlier, you talked about the fact that the president biden is heading into an election year in the us in 2024. and i want to ask you how this deal might impact him politically in the us going forward and how worried the bite and administration

might be when it comes to the ramification of it. because we've kind of seen the, by the ministration, be a little bit on the defensive about this, saying that this was not a ran some talking about how they are still taking a tough stance toward iran. so is there a lot of concern privately, amongst biden officials about how this could impact him and included, have negative ramifications on him domestically in the us going forward. but of course, his, of the opposition is the republicans are going to make this case. but the fact is that this is a run in money, it is not a ransom. and in fact, my understanding of the terms is that should there be any abuse or lock or transparencies that the united states can restrict the further use of whatever funds remain. so it's got a, a safety latch on it and in terms of whereby it and is going with us. i think that

you're mad at terry inside is a big plus for him. and he is that kind of president that emphasizes that kind of thing. and so it was a big p r day for him and played well in that situation. and i think, yes, the concern on the part of the republicans is that there will be expenditures possibly in areas. now that the iranians can direct us these funds to where in the past they were buying food and, and medicine. but if you look at the ronnie and budget, the defense security communities sectors have been extremely well funded. so it's more likely that these funds will be used to relieve some of the pressure is on the rise in poverty. and the, the extenuating circuit circumstances brought about by a declining economy for no other reason than to improve the, the atmosphere by the public uh towards the,

the government and to help reduce the amount of grievances that are at the moment slashing around in the run. so ad, so we were just talking about what impact this deal might have on president biden in the us. i want to ask you about how this deal might potentially help president. right. you see in iran what it has the reaction been thus far from the general public? from your point of view, do you think this is something that will strengthen him among his supporters or do you think this is something that could potentially you know, cause him any kind of political peril in the wrong? i think the, the agreement that yesterday the exchange is going to have to present enter a c internally that he is showing that he is able to achieve these type of agreements. and it's going to have, you know, on that it's finances. and so you don't. yeah,

and happy the i'm any chance of potty, but the exception of some republicans and some professors that are missing the points and utilize and the south koreans are happy because they can have a normal economic relations with you. then a given the fact that this issue is off the table, is there any is, are not happy for obvious reasons. is there any support that you don't, you know, physician is obviously not happy. but overall, i think this was a good agreement. and if by then once to have a correct policy towards it on, she could return to the agreement. today i teach american government at university of to add on under the american system, the new president can notify the executive orders of the previous president. so what by then could do on the 1st day of his presidency. and what he could do today is to return to the agreements, giving you don,

2 or 3 months to go back to compliance. and if you don't, would do that, it probably in just a few weeks. the fact that you're having this conversation is because of the chaos in washington. and because of the wrong recommendations that the people in the us government are getting from the so called the on experts that seems to know nothing about the on scott, we only have about a minute and a half left. but i could see that you want to jump in, so please go ahead. i be at the end of the day trying to plan one side or just the other half. that's just a bit of pastoring. and we can put that aside. the fact of the matter is, is that there is a fundamental to fundamentals here. one is, is that we have got a very limited deal which iran struck because it needed money for its economy. we need to have good faith measures on both sides to advance on the nuclear program. but secondly, the equally important story this week was the fact of the ongoing protest in your

role and for rights for were for, for justice. you're wanting leadership in part, tried to use the story to deflect from those protests which they currently to repress and call you the 2024. as important as the nuclear deal is a topic of discussion. equally important part of those social movements within the around trying to find space freely express themselves and not be repressed. so we'll be watching both stories at the same time and the full ad i also saw you. yeah, i saw you want to jump in there for i please go ahead, stopped functioning, stop sanctioning. you're on young people. if you're interested in human rights sub, you know, when you have a stop sanctioning then instead of intrigues like say i know the are on the paper and getting, i know you run by, i taught a, your, i, tanya, i don't if you're interested, i'm going to call my friends or accurately entered into that room. i know you're, i know that was a mistake. i hope that was a mistake. we have honestly about for your running and people don't lecture me

about the people on this thing. you've got the wrong, you don't, you know, just don't like to be function and so forth. think sanctions, i can see it on young people is on justify that it's, it's a more on the right hand corner while this is, but i think that's all i need to work and they want rice, they want rice and social freedoms as well. don't say all right, well we have a nice, they have social 3 times. they don't need any recommendations from people. thank you. thanks a lot. i'm sorry to interrupt you. we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks. so much all of our guest is id roxanne farm on from my end and scott lucas and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just you or dot com and prefer the discussion go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash age and side story. you can also during the conversation on x, formerly known as twitter or handle is at 8 insights to wait for me. i'm having to drilling a whole team here. bye for now the

the what we do and all just sarah is try to follow the stories and he's the people who allow us into their lives, dignity and democracy. how do states control information controlling the narrative to dominate thing, the media? how does the narrative improve public opinion and enormous?

5, you might not be the most important story about china of today. but that's what the big piece attention to. how is citizen, jim listened, replacing the story, the listening post. i fixed the media. we don't cover the news, we cover the way the news is covered. the me in my brain give citizens are risking their lives to see coaching film, the ongoing persecution fair people. 101 east reveals there never before seen footage on all just a sense of belonging. we are very close knit community. everybody knows everybody and the every day he real keeping communities together. this is the same sort of universe set of my universe. i just visit scotlands out there a headboard and meets those fighting to say that either this way of life in the face of its population, the a sense of community on

a jersey to the de, there's a problem in the house, the top stories on it. i'll just say, i'm sorry about john has said troops into the armenian control, and the going to cut a box region endorsed onto the re strikes on it's capital. that soft wood accused armenian forces of kenning, 4 bits, police offices, and land mine explosions. azerbaijan says at once the complete withdrawal of armenian forces, but yet, yvonne says it doesn't have any forces there, as are by john launched some of the 2 operation as well. leaders gathered for the 1st full day of the united nations general assembly in new york. i'll just use spoke to the us ambassador to the un about the laces flare up and fighting but we have call for.