in a world where the news never ends, understanding what's behind the headlines is more important than ever. it takes listening to the people behind the news and to the journalists reporting their stories. it's that intimacy that makes every international story local at heart. i'm only give you that host of the take a daily news podcast powered by the local reporting of al jazeera. find us where ever you get your pod cast. your brain in missile strike had some rushes naval headquarters in climax attacks on the russian control territory. having testified just as you planes, ground defensive in the east makes little headway. so why is climb is so important to both sides? this is inside story, the

hello there, and welcome to the program. i'm nora, kyle, russian controlled crime. it has been coming on the increasing attack from ukraine . the treasury annexed by most go 9 years ago is now an active bustle. funds between the wall between the 2. once seen as a fortress of most goes minute tree mites, the latest attack and so vast topple has shown that ukraine is capable of reaching target's fall beyond the front lines. the speculation that british or french missiles helped school a direct hit on the russian naval headquarters on friday. one of most guys, most important spaces, will else go guess and just a moment, why climb it is so significant to both sides. first offensive. monahan has this report on fridays attack, a strike at the heart of russia's operations in the black sea. ukraine says friday

to tack on the russian regional naval headquarters into the basketball, killed several high ranking military commanders debases in crimea. well, behind russian lines, it came as present. baltimore zalinski wrapped up a trip to north america, ukraine's allies have been wrapping up shipments of advanced weapons that make it possible to strike deep into a russian hill territory. the moving guys solution is not the moment of q. we are grateful to the united states and with all due respect to all of our allies, united states provides the largest share of, of the list of the assistance that our soldiers on the battlefield really need at this moment even though some so we are discussing all the different types of weapon with long range weapons, artillery and air defense system. and what am i speaking at the un rushes foreign minister, keith western powers of using ukraine to fight a proxy war for each just you while you the west on defacto fighting

against us using the hands and bodies of ukrainians. i think everybody present to you who pays at the summit tension to the situation in ukraine knows very well that americans, buttons and others are fighting. and those countries providing more and more weapons thoughts. and along the front line with the conflict, ukraine's progress has been slow and much anticipated counter offensive has failed to make significant gains retaking territory held by russia. but the strike against the possible has shown that you crank and hit russian assets far from the main battlefront and of attacks like this can be repeated. it could open up a new front in the war fence and mon, ahead for inside story. as well as being a series of attacks on crime and leading up to the latest sikes on september 14th, ukrainian forces used a combination of trains and missiles to knock out a surface to missile system. and just one day long range crews must solve damaged.

a naval ship and a submarine, a dry adult to sleep maintenance was also hey, ton is expected to be out of action for months. and then october 23rd and attack the town of and if caught, destroyed another a defense system under radar station. the what i was bringing all guests now and in most go andre back ton of deputy chairman of the association of russian diplomats. he's also a former, a russian ambassador to saudi arabia in london. metella sacrifice the senior electra in security and development at king's college london. i'm the offer of russian and parents and we visited from disengagement to hedge money and in new york, michael wasik, your senior fellow at the atlantic council and a former spokesman for the o. s. c e. special function mission to you kind of, i will welcome to all of you michael. let's start with you. the black fleet head, the quote says it's a major high profile target. how did you claim put office attack?

sure, sure. well, um, look, you referred to uh the correspond to referred to that area as uh, military for transfer. but the worst thing because of the printed a tax is nothing more than a signed couse. so even that's kind of a compliment. i mean, the fact that the russian, i'm sorry, the fact that the ukranian rockets were able to penetrate the highly vaunted s 400 bucks and their defense system is absolutely astounding. look, these are systems. the country is like turkey and india have paid billions of dollars for and now we're saying that it's largely an effective not only protecting their crime in peninsula, but also the aerospace in moscow against fairly rudimentary drawn. so huge of success for the creative forces. but if i can, i mean we have to remember also the wider picture that crimea is very, very important. strategic for 3 reasons. historic, economic and military. and economically, everyone's looking at this and these,

the stay in a for the oil and gas reserves. but there's a lot there and as well, up previous to russians, russia, it's illegal annexation or crimea. they're paying billions of dollars of rent to ukraine. so if you put all of that together, it's very strategic. and then i should also add, i am temporarily based in odessa, we think of crime. he had a lot for several reasons. but one of the reasons is that it is the base for these russian missiles being launched and targeting not literally a desktop, but the ports and a critical component of the global food supply chain. so when you crane does strike, crime is not only for its own military reasons, defensive reasons, but also because it is keeping the world's food supply chain in mind. okay, michael, thank is a lot to get into the, in this discussion festival. andre, let's get your response here. this is the latest in a string of attacks that we've seen in the crime it how big a blow is this to rushes black sea feet the. busy ok,

i think just. busy to shoot this uh, give me a little think. oh, sure, sure. uh we were doing this for you in the store. but uh, actually i really expected something about that. and uh, that you didn't know. that's why it won't kindly go. we decided to college. busy church for those of our other and. busy all the sense of do for the just sure i'm the riddle for me in some other. busy places and of course, disorders that belong to the people that i work in, move except for those books to the building, but ever, sometimes it's just a serious thing. i think you left the well uh old tell dish in the room. we are lacking efficient. uh, mtv uh, did use use the game show cool, change that our systems are all lose the start of the developing. so that was quite

versatile. that the mandate on just show you a few adventure that to the development of the for those services, the g o, the present date. oh. busy oh, you know, we haven't, reggie andre, if, if russia it could bosco expect since this attack? why did it not back to defend its black see fleet had courses, it was the only a, a real shot to way of defending against such attempts. it's a, you know, or stag even get braces. the base is the whole thing is stuck into this images on your brain. i think it's something were to happen in some of the dealer. so i remember for sure that that, that was uh well, uh, uh, what do the sure what a stream it should your stream, you know,

the 3 uh don't get the best. you can also go to any, much, uh, why should i pull to see if we should care for you if you do start again these days is a long time ago the andre saying that this attack was to be expected, but it didn't come as a surprise do you agree with that? yes, i think that it is clear that already now for several months, it's not over a year that the you know, you, that your printers have been trying to. um we can uh rosters and military presence in premier for his reasons. as was explained by the 1st best speaker, the fact back from premier there is always a challenge on the sort of knolls, western coast of ukraine on the black sea i'm. that's where i know the grain is being exposed to. so russia and therefore you're printing spring, pull them to make sure that there isn't a sort of a landing of what you need you on the show. so based on these,

these shows of your brain at the same time, uh premier, is the seat is that got stuck on the black sea lead to russia. um, the id is from uh from the fleet that the nissans are being fired. i'll be praying and infrastructure when a lot of the from from it shapes or something or things that are stable on, but they're based in the uh, in the crime in, um, basically my stop also, this is also a very important point to try to diminish the i believe russia to pick your brain up, it may not on the infrastructure. so i think that it's, it's something that there are, you know, what's to be, you know, what, i mean, what's talked about for quite some time. and we've seen many operations already last year when the there were attacks on, on the basis that dresser, i have the, the, the air base is that directional house in, in crime. yeah. under present putting the has always said the rush that claim it is

a red line that must be crossed. so how will he respond to this because we now keep seeing crimea being hit? well, the real estate agent that the. busy face in the developmental who'd be like the federal some the real be much more attached again. so the premium facility is. busy busy her basis and. busy busy role uh is really pursuing this, usually we been through cities and the check. uh, you know, oh actually we kind of been doing this. busy but the book to own the level that you do need you to make sure uh, victory uh in. busy the new bill should be the time the shuttle most. i think it will need less than 2. yes. uh, because uh the, the $150.00 over to the survey lane that you rented,

we will. busy liberating your credit and then the 2nd was what was that turns drives me to the brand. so this is the image is going to do in to finish the name of the junction to your. ready brandon's, oh, can you tell them to so says and so uh well uh well i think the step is you're used to prepare and also so. busy busy the again. busy the key since you brought to this, it won't be the nature of this is a preliminary stage of this time to call them the main think is now to say don't, don't give them opportunities to gain the emotions. so they experience real verbal experience this uh they saw the main elements of the stuff that you okay, i'm like, oh, i'll just give it a chance to respond. glad to what andre says before bringing us back to crime in a less than 2 years. will russia things victory and new crane? what's your response to that? that would be

a miracle kind of by any standard. they are not doing well on several front lines of whether it's land base the, the long front line that stretches from north of ukraine to the south. but also obviously in crimea novel also able being able to protect it. sounds kaiser. and i'm also wondering how does the average russian think about this, whether they live in crimea, or they live in the outskirts of moscow, or even central mosque jobs, that they are now getting a taste of what ukrainians throughout ukraine face every day. this barrage of muscles and drones. so i, i wonder what this means for mr buttons. uh, hold on power. the other thing uh, we should say uh, is that uh, what russia has done with crime. yeah. in the past decades is the a fits into a pattern of not only disregarding its own international bilateral treaties, but also of control genocide. what's been done in crimea to the crime in terms of

the killing them or deporting them to places like siberia. so we are saying that russian play book play out now in the world. what do credit, but once again, they are due performing very badly on the battlefield. port morales, the troops, they're losing soldiers at 2 or $3.00 to $1.00 to the ukraine inside. and one more quick thing is with the introduction of these more powerful, longer range missiles like the storm shut off from the u. k. and the top comes which are expected to come. you can probably expect a raj thing up a problem. you could to even include it could even include a direct strike on the couch bridge, which is an important re supply chain in the whole war effort. a, i think with these newer missiles it would not only put a whole on the bridge, but put it out completely. and again, we have to emphasize this, these, these resupply rates are legitimate military targets. going to,

michael raises the point that wondering what people in crime may think of all this, it must be pointed out, must net, the poles have consistently signed the move in half of the population in crime me a favor unification with russia. this is a broad, the russian, ethnically, russian population. i think it's very important to highlight 2 points. first, start in 1991. when your brain had a referendum on a form independence. the majority of people in crimea voted in favor. it wasn't on a resolving majority just in other parts of your prey, but nevertheless it was joy does. i'm not mistaken of overall i'm 57 percent and that also included the safety of somebody stole. so when your premiums have a johnston vote, a non open uh sort of referendum they did vote in favor of ukraine's independence ink. right. and yes,

when and what is important to highlight is also the fact that the referendum that was carried out in 2014 was not really free and fair. and the opinion polls are very hard to, to a, to sort of a bottom here. so i wouldn't, i wouldn't face myself from that. i mean, of course, we know that there are a simple faith. i'm generally that raise a mood and support of, of our integration with russia. but that are, you know, doesn't justify bionics ation, nor does it allow russia to operate in that way. dogs in the region, especially because premier has become really a seed of many tribulations for russia. if we must remember that major sol as that was carried out in february 2022 into ukraine was carried out from premier. so by me as it can be used for change it as a base. so many tribulations and also for russia it has been under no control of gardening and has allowed it to we are sort of close

a see of us off to your grains of grain exports on all kinds of other industrial exports on the western co, excuse me, on the eastern northern coast of the prince black fee. so there are very many arguments in favor for, you know, as i said, for ukraine to try to re take control of a pioneer. i think what is also important if we talk about a key for thing. remember the crimea, cons they are originally many, many of them have been forced to the best being depredations during the soviet era . and they will not be allowed to return even even when other peoples were allowed to return to their company areas of origin. but out those were not. so there's not a lot of a sort of in a way changing of populations i've already generated from crimea on. many russians are really the 1st generation they're, they're not there since many generations and brand new andre, why did print some document pollutant amex crime it in 2014?

it was seen to be illegal on the international know, and it started on a collision course with the grade. i'm the whole world. well actually i feel like doing. busy busy oh, why do you like to watch? and we just did that. that's gonna be a really big store. i'll shoot you the reason we didn't have anything in mind, but also i was hoping to. busy 2014 business needs and develop them for the parents because of the change. i don't think what are you and then do you have the structural change? sure. hold the end of the to the there's you start, you know, you don't do mediation, all the people are living. i mean, uh, tell me your, so really the on does that because that is you have to give you regular tests just as it was during the 2nd world war during the grant. we can't move the board fly really room or what the parenthesis is that still

a good idea to be matching. also they have to put them in prison, but unfortunately by doing just to patch her show that there's great but yeah, for them to join the staff this time to be present during strategy of the and the 1111. been there. and so have you come in and show leaving me, but i should do the admission and they are backing everything that i was visiting for several occasions. but i me, i rush assure you the lessons they're including deeper and so they are a little happy. but today we are going to jump back to the marble our situation and we will get together because we're not sure which will do the division between the wrench. and the other thing is did you do division between the eyes of these? so here's you. well, that's what i can do in 2014, and then it will be people the addition as you the address of the and the payments and the drill or gdc. but the 2nd version will do you

accept that? but ross of amex ation of crime. it is illegal on the international the, the legal exactly. it was the additional risk and profit are saying about for sure . the people have the reviews, the surgeon and very decided to result that direction. we did just have this plan, so that told you this is absolute. the 2nd seriously, the goodman. so the people left. you do not use them. you do not know anything which is separate. and the last thing, some of the police are viewing it to you and the tv is very uh, you know, uh, giving us some stores. where are they gonna be going to wherever we have the those don't get there, but you need to know what is going on there. so this last step,

but since i've been to the, to the government, the stairs are part page. we have citizens and this is on some of the companies, including the show called you prince michael, was your response to the other people in crime and they wanted to join russia. officer for the victory. got a co, rich, and the rise of the 11th sky. animal pro western government in keys is that the way you see it? that is complete nonsense and um, i think i don't want to dignify the individual just spoke by responding to is a twisted version of history. the lies the fake news. um, i will just raise one point here and it's important one is um mr. boot and tried to justify his so called specs on military operation by saying, you know, roughly, is coming today to russian speakers and place them by product q of in odessa and body. hope all, well, these are the very uh, cities that russian is striking without any sort of restraint. um,

i was just reminding myself, looking at a video yesterday of how a russian missile strike came straight into the start district of augusta into that big orthodox cathedral. so if this is their version of protecting russians, well, god, help russians elsewhere in the world. look, the other thing here i should mention because i am seated here in the united states . we just finished that while we're in the middle of the u. n week. and most of the landscape visit to washington is that for the finance to finish what they start, i declare for victory and push the russians back so that they no longer are a threat not only to natal country 0, but the rules based international system is that 2 things need to happen in washington. number one is that um the, the, the decision makers there need to get over their fear of the nuclear black mare male. in other words, mitchell put and turning to nuclear weapons. i don't think that will happen. and number 2, there also seems to be concerned in washington about russia somehow imploding,

if there's too many threats made to them, especially by the acquaintance, i think that is nonsense also. but one quick point. if i may, what we're seeing play itself out in europe is either your pin countries actually happen acting ahead of united states, for example, providing main battle tanks, jobs for those long range missiles. so that is a very refreshing thing to see. and i think they realize that they're much closer to the front line, right side is much bigger of a thread, and they need to address a proactively done. so what do you think of that? because we do have us media reports that joe biden is preparing to send a small number of long range missile systems. cold attack comes, what person do they do? how might that change the st. louis the stays with us for ukraine, and how indeed might russia then respond to it? what i think, what is important is they've got a hip, so the deeper into areas where, you know, the brain didn't have that capability before i'd received the storm shadow on me.

sorry. so that hates you area. you know, your brain is to heat. so that'd be, be behind what we call behind getting in the lines because what happened was, when your brain has receives the he mars, they moved a lot of their so the, from portland permutation around some of their amunition dead phones. so that behind and these makes sense. what are now, are you planning to hit add to control communications and also logistic of support that is helping wasn't really trick on base. so it is really very helpful and very important. and i mean the question of whether they would keep russian terry tree, i think, you know, is, is a, is a delicate one. but this one, but, you know, sort of power lines that sort of, uh, support for your brain. because what we're seeing is that uh, you know, that 1st of all, it is necessary and essential for you. praying to receive these weapons to carry on

more effectively. it's menu click on a 2nd here. no russia. so that comes along with blood that has the image of the capabilities unless it escalates much further to the territory, which i think they will not do so they will continue responding in that way they have responded so far. i mean, was one of the concerns is if the small drugs on for very, very long. but i don't see that russia will do a sort of estimate to one level which is really threatening, which will allow it in sort of a nuclear power entry as a result of reducing the to come side contracts. no, that should be worried about andre, to what extent does the use of western weapons in this will provoke person or oh well well actually i think that though you know the references that are coming to him with this, the vision was one of the social on people and vision of his uh was uh

uh the, the 22 is the huge and um, hold on i'll call sure. busy busy to do so that but you know, do for you in june in the end do to go. busy but sure, i don't quite sure that in some periods of time, the people we envision, the doctor is more a transition. so in the, in the brain, maybe not to we, we bought a raise you probably in the prism date. but as you will show, the report, do i want you to do so for us not to use a reference of doing such a little but to, to use the apple you to do to make sure you, i know you're great. i was living there for many years. i went in school and i found plenty. busy fresh. busy the category information which i gave you my cell book by magazine. so i'm just the hillside. i'm fairly information directly from the great engine, including the rest of the bar to bit of the. ready of the french i think that to

this address and the law, here's the negligence and uh okay, do people are waiting for at least for the stoppage of this. busy ready no additional, i'm just going to jump in that because we've just got a, a minutes once i left and michael lost. what do you, how long can you crane keep defending itself as well? it should be defending itself for as long as it needs to the west. uh, allies should be providing ukraine with everything it needs. because once again, we are seeing mr. put in weaponized, food, migration, and to you know, the trade with the world. and um, if the ukrainians are not given everything they need, i assure you that this war will come to the door steps of many people around the world. it already is in terms of higher food prices higher. petra price is much more in security. so look, you, mr. zaleski has made it cleared,

here in the united states and britain more recently to canada is that they're not going to give up on, in some territory to the russians. i think the russian should get tied into their heads and do the proper thing and just pull back to the 1991 borders. and otherwise they risk a lot more damage to their society to their lands. especially with these new mentors arriving, that we do have to move our discussion today. thank you very much to all guess for joining us. andre. background of the tele sacraments. so and michael, both kids and thank you to for watching. you can see this program again, any time by visiting our website. that sounds is there a dot com for further discussion to go to a facebook page that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. and you can also during the conversation on x humblest of a j inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team here is 5 to now the

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