is the nice pump put it in the fondles some 60 and they can do cush look what is coming in. that's know, not just light so it looks like funny significance there a little early in the season. the ultra nation instruments connected with one of the world's worst humanitarian crises. we don't accept any getting migrant joining with the military to impose that deadly political agend. you have to filter our nation. what has happened to the pension? that's one of the biggest stains of the country as well as in not really. this is important to me in an unholy alliance. oh no, just here. the keys, interior minister says the international asylum system is outdated. that needs to be reform for view as have been strongly rejected by the united nations and human rights organizations. so what's behind that? do they have any support?

this is inside storage, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much i'm john. a speech by the british. i'm secretary so well a bravo ment. calling for an overhaul of the international asylum system has for hold strong international reaction. one of the government's most senior ministers. she's previously been criticized at home for saying that brittany was undergoing an invasion of migrants for latest remarks have been rejected by the united nations, amnesty international and migrants rights groups. so why has she made them and does she have any support in britain and elsewhere? will be putting these questions in more to our guest shortly. but 1st, this report for potomac up some sharif on the background to brother man's controversial speech regions. home secretary has talked to champion separately,

controversial policies to stem my question. this time slot brother, men attacked the major pillar of postwar humanitarian, lo, lo, speaking to members of the same time in washington dc. this legal framework is worth it. and the 1951 un referencing convention, it was created to help we settle people fleeing persecution following the horrors of world war 2 and the holocaust and was initially at least centered around europe . it was an incredible achievement of its age, but more than 70 as own. we now live in a completely different time. so you can government has been trying to change its system full asylum seekers. bus line some to want to wait. so the decision on the application to stay in the u. k. that scheme has been viewed illegally by the u. k . is coded for people who have the government to wait. the supreme court decision on whether it's planned for tackling small boot crossing is legal. immigration is

a major political issue for the conservative party that's functioning in opinion. polls ahead of a general election, widely expected late next year. asylum seekers are provided accommodation by the state and the conservative government has failed to oppose the promises to stem. the numbers arriving from mainland del to nearly $24000.00 people have made the trip. so follow the caea. adding to a rec club backlog in asylum plains. brennaman has also described on the restriction she'd like to see. we will not be able to sustain asylum system, in effect simply being gay, or women or fearful of discrimination in your country of origin is sufficient to qualify for protection. the united nations 1951 repeat the convention, provides the legal basis for the protection of for future use world wide. it's been verified by putting on about a 150 other countries. states that have signed up to the convention must protect

civilians, think conflict of persecution brought them in subs in the government headed by the you case 1st hand, the foreign minister actually is defended from going indians from malicious and kenya. she says multi culturalism in europe has failed. a multi culturalism makes note among those of the in come to integrate. it has failed because it allow people to contrast society unless parallel lives in its realm and spoke to using the so called token points into us that reflect american rights being conservative sentiments to us migrants both the states in that country. i've seen a dramatic rise and numbers of asylum seekers with tens of thousands crossing into the country from mexico. the state of texas has declared the state of emergency be the u. k. old of us, race, immigration, and multiculturalism

a now controversial issues as why when populism is on device. let me close, i'm sure leave for inside study. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests in london is steve valdez. simmons is the director of refugee and migrant rights for amnesty international u. k. and geneva is shelby, i'm on to global folks 1st and for the united nations refugee agency. you and hcr. and also in london is 10 bell professor of politics of queen mary university of london and author of the conservative party after briggs. it's a warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story chevy. let me start with you today. um, so well the problem is taking a look at the 1951 refugee convention saying that the system essentially is no longer fit for purpose. what's the response from the un refugee agency? it will be refugee convention and it's 1967 protocol is one of

the greatest human rights instruments to have been developed and implemented. it saved millions of lives around the world. or if it's a pa 70 is entered, embodies p age old, universal principle of asylum ser. it's as critical now as it was when it was drunk, didn't wonder, i mean, needs to attend on the news, to see the crises around the world that continues to force people to fleet at hearns and to see how those people have access to the safety and protection, and before you look up, for instance, be the classes this year. and so then go and ukraine last year when millions of people have been driven from their homes. it's testament to the currency and the criticality of the convention of the international refugee little framework. shelby, when you're talking about the people all around the world who are so desperate, who are fleeing their homes, fling violence, i want to mention something i heard just a short while ago. i spoke to a refugee who my know and,

and he was talking about this news about the remarks from ms. robin and he told me that this was really awful to see and really awful think here. uh he said, um, you know, it's not as though from his perspective, but the countries that are signatories of the refugee convention. but many of them are even doing enough at this stage. how much concern is there if we start hearing this kind of rhetoric from other, from other political leaders in other countries around the world? and yeah, when also needs to just look at, look at the global picture. we have about 35000000 refugees in the world, and the over whelming majority of them 76 percent. what just assurance officially significant figure of a hosted and large and middle income countries. and they're often the neighboring countries because refugees that are essentially those that are driven from a home safe bet, just fleeing and such with safety and protection. and they're trying to access that . so if we look at the global picture it's, it's really speak. so the need for more equitable responsibility sharing, when it comes to hosting and protecting refugees. so it's really important that all

countries fulfill their obligations and abide by the international legal framework to protect for future use. so it is really important, but all companies abide by their obligations because we know if we look at the global situation, it's, it's so some numbers in the countries that are often very challenged with the resources that federal, some of them are as generous when it comes to hosting the or the world, the majority refugees, the steam from your perspective and from the perspective of your colleagues at amnesty international at a time when refugees and migrants continue to be demonized at a time when anti migration and anti refugee sentiment continues to grow around the world and so many countries, how concerned are you when you hear this kind of rhetoric from ms. bravo and a weird stream, the consent, the u. k. has a powerful voice on the international stage,

and it's being grossly abused for domestic political reasons. miss bravo puts not just the human rights commitments in the u. k. in the human rights of people in the u. k. including refugees of this country at stake. she puts at stake the human rights of people right across the world because of the country. as rich as possible as stable is the u. k, will not abide and respect its international human rights obligations. it is extremely difficult to expect and cold upon other nations elsewhere fall poor, far less stable to do so. and of course, amongst other things that can only create more reason for more people to need it to flee seeking safety software, including because they call fine safety and other countries who refused to abide by

the rules that the u. k. seeks to flout this time. steve, let me also ask you a follow up on amnesty international issued a statement in response to ms. brown from his comments that said what urgently needs to be address on the world stages. the glaring and a quality of country sharing responsibility for refugees. a matter in which the u. k is severely lagging. you mentioned the response in the u. k. in your previous answer. just how bad is the situation there as well. the stock, so these, the u. k. like significantly behind even it's european union neighbors in terms of the number of people it provides protection to all the number of people it receives seeking protection, new york is not assigned to around the world that receives the great number of refugees as you and how she all has just explained,

it has long been the case of very long being the case that it is false, cora less stable countries, the role being doing the great majority of work in hosting the well, it's refugee population. so extremely concerning. the u. k. should seek to question commitment to the refugee convention when it's commitment compared to others, is already some pull tim these remarks from so a problem and from your point of view, why has she made them and, and what is it that's behind as well. i think there are a couple of things. the 1st thing to say is that sort of a problem and is very much making a pitch full for support of the rights of the conservative policy for a potential leadership challenge off to the election. i, i think many people assume conceptualise of election and that we're going to the

ship contest and she is to some extent, ok, now hotel, retrieve full bathrooms, the darling of the kind of populous rights of the policy. but it's also, frankly, the parents of both to this on the consensus off, the desperate to put back together the winning coalition. the 4th johnson built in 2019 and that was built in paul on some pretty old storage area. and i see emigration. votes of this, in the know from the visions of england. i'm showing a problem and i looked at where she said that as well saying, but by token talk for migration and asylum seekers. and we see this when they talk about stopping the boats as well. so they will be able to pull back some of those one so, so the time of the election takes place in 2024. they will stand some johnson. what do you get, tim? let me also ask you about the fact that it's been reported that there are some,

even within the conservative party, just felt that so while abroad berman went too far with these remarks. um, do you think that's accurate? i mean, will she be facing backlash from within her own party? oh, yes, definitely. i mean, they're awesome conservator. so i think you all displayed this particular in the parliamentary policy. but they already, i've seen quite worried about the populace to. so the policy has taken really since the breaks that referendum, some of the rhetoric home and small boats that we've heard from. so a problem in our she so not to another couple. this is already along the, i think i a and if you put that together with some of those, they rolling back on that 0 but versus, they're not has been giving us the last week or so. that doesn't mean that quite a little bit more if you like moses on centrist and piece in the conservative policy, are worried about the direction the call to use taking. i also to be all those formerly worried about the election impact to this because for every folks that

these kind of red meat in some ways of tracks, they would argue that it actually puts off a another bunch as a base, if you like, the liberal populism actually, a nice many consulting firm pays are all worried about losing their seats. because about a chevy a in these controversial remarks this while it brought them and also said that the threshold had been lowered over time. in terms of judging. who meets the criteria defined in the 1951 you in refugee convention? what is the, what i say to that? well, the refugees, people that are playing full, that lives for threats to their lives. but freedom, when we're talking about the refugee status determination process, it's an individualized crisis. so we have to look at the individual circumstances and the experiences and the trucks in the dangers, but people have

a fearing. and that's what's really important. so it's, it's not very helpful to sort of have a sweeping categorization because it really depends on the individual experience and the circumstances. so when we're looking at of the for global picture and we see refuge and he's been there, people that are fleeing conflict, really horrific, of human rights violations, persecution based on the orientation on, on other identity factors, it could be a race or religion, uh, nationality membership of a particular social group or political opinion. but we, we've seen, you know, the story. it may experiences of people that have, have flips for their lives. i'm flinging really horrific of conflict and human rights violations. or if the need is full and bull compassionate and human response to people who bring them up position because it's not a voluntary choice, no one wants to be a refugee. no one wants to be exposed to such horrendous circumstances in their

lives. so what we did is compassion, what we need is also really fair, expedient, unofficial asylum processes to quickly determine who is a native international protection, who is a refugee and who isn't. and to also been galvanized solutions. steve miss bravo. and also claim that women and gay people must face more than discrimination if they are to qualify as a refugee. this is a statement that has been challenged by many refugee charities. what is amnesty is response to that statement. when i actually, she's being very miss representative of the convention itself. in her words, she's choosing to suggest, imply that day people that when i'm in refugees are somehow being advantaged in refugee determination price. this is the convention itself, which is very far from true discrimination is an impulse into consideration,

but it is persecution. that is the test that she must very well know whether that meets that particularly holly threshold, which by the way, the u. k is on the last year, pos knowles, to raise coley in appropriately in terms of its own determination procedures. so she's targeting a minority of people who largely disadvantaged, even in the whole refugee convention, steam to paralyze them as a way of tracking the convention. it's so i think the whole thing is actually show . ready full time, it looked to me like you were reacting to some of what steve was saying there, please go ahead. well, i mean, i think this is absolutely right when he says that this is really an attempt to resolve on the tray from a very long held assumption that the u. k. would hold the convention,

they would be seeking to make sure that other countries did as well. so as far as the kind of moral leadership that she liked the change on this particular issue, i think, to, to stomachs and sort of problem and as has damaged, possibly cognitively. of course, it is with remembering that this is a necessary, the government of the u. k will have next year no longer. this is clearly a statement that would not have been made had number 10 downing street so that she approved it. it's important to realize that this is not necessarily the case position going forward over the next few years. if we get a different results of the next election from the last, i think we have a very different view on this from the u. k. government chevy and your, you mentioned earlier that there really is a need for a more to main system in order to deal with this all more effectively around the world. and i want to ask you about the fact that it seems no matter what security

apparatus has been put in place, no matter what new agreements have been reached between countries to try to staunch the flow of refugees and migrants. uh, at the end of the day, those numbers have not been decreasing correct as well. if we look at the global picture there, there is a correlation between increased displacement and then situations of conflict or instability, or perpetuating continuous human rights violations which force people to play. so what's really needed is to look at what we called the root causes that forced people to sleep at homes, they really need to be addressed if we want to get serious about addressing increasing displacement. because this is really a result, a consequence of political decisions of political action. so that needs to be much more stripping efforts to result complex and prevent new ones from occurring, but also to issue address. but we call mixed movements because we know that people

on the move um, they're often a, it's a mix between a refugee so people who are playing conflict to persecution or human rights violations, but also migrant. some people who are, who might choose to, to label or have to leave for a variety of other reasons. so it's important to, to look at this from a very holistic approach and prevent the by addressing the root causes, but then also responding in a humane manner, which can include things from ensuring that we have a nonce capacity will strengthen capacities to rescue people in distress. and land, let's see. we've gotten so many tragedies happening in various maritime movements across the world, not just on the mediterranean, but also if we look in asia and so on. so we have to really enhance the search and rescue capacities. we need to ensure that asylum systems are sufficiently results, so they are crucial in being able to determine who was in need of protection, and then finding human solutions for those who are not the time to be refugees. but

that can also include over tends to have countries and safety and dignity, but then also strengthening inclusion in countries that all hosting refugees of the bulk of refugees. and many of those countries around the world and all hosting the majority of refugees require support in the form of development assistance. so humanitarian in support. and that will also ensure that people who, who are flipped the safety can access services like education, health care, and be able to work and access protection in those hurst countries. and we also, in importantly, need more responsibility sharing from the rest of the world. so that can take place in the form of ensuring more resettlement, to places for refugees or other forms of admissions. and again, ensuring that more financial resources channelled into the countries that are on the front lines. um, so it requires a really holistic approach to look at a situation and really is stem of the issue of people being forced to sleep at homes. and the best place shall be. and we've spoken many times in the past,

and you have advocated many times in the past 4 countries to be, you know, integrating those refugee communities more and more to be welcoming those migrant communities to be allowing them to work and, and participate more in society. but i want to ask you, what is the response when, when you and hcr is calling upon these countries to do that more and more, what are you hearing? and is there the political will to actually do this? yeah, i mean it's so important festival for refugees to be able to access to extend protection . then if we look at the global picture and the fact that there are refugees or crossing the borders and accessing safety, it is a mixed picture. we all saying really some exemplary practices. um we see that all around the world when it comes to inclusion. we do see there is a big strain and a lot of pressure on some of these. a refugee hurst countries, these low to middle income countries. and they are trying to do their best bet. her sting awesome refugees, full for years out of time and,

and what we call protracted refugee situation so that there is a need to, to see support from the rest of the world. i'm into actual community has recognized this in equity in the refugee response because, you know, it came together be intentional. community came together and resend the principles refugee protection, but also the need some of support for inclusion, but also to support other hurst country through humanitarian admissions. refugee resettlement, and so on. the truth of global compact time refugees, which basically is a framework for the refugee response. so we, we, we know this has been endorsed, but we would like would like to see more concrete commitments from the rest of the world in terms of doing method to international responsibility. sherry, tim britton's labor party, said miss bravo and was trying to distract from her failures in getting to grips with the case migration crisis. they also accused her of using, gave people in women as scape godes. how much was the speech a product of politics,

but also is the labor party taking a harder line towards migration now to as well as the cost it does have to be castle on this because it's very clear when you look a poly u. k. got people all worried about migration, but as far as seems to ease a little bit off, the brakes it, but they seems to be growing again paul, songs to the circles from boats crisis and labor and cause he's worried about the next selection possibility, a concert this might, as i said before, use migration is a call to play in in the other direction. having said that label faulty has a reputation is an international is faulty. it doesn't want to engage any of a small progressive support says by taking to haul in line one gratian. and some ways, perhaps the problem is. busy is wrong with making it more difficult for the impulse

he might make it for all the easy in the sense that in as much as they all seen by some swing voters as quite extreme. it allows late, but actually to portray themselves as having kind of sensible, pragmatic solutions even though it's quite concerned about the situation we spoke of quite as far as a consensus very hauled line. so i think labor are probably being quite careful how they play this. i don't want to be say, nice quote, unquote, a soft touch on migration. you know, the other hand, they want to ensure that as far as you know, the cold and she's concerned that progressive lunches, if you like, they all roll on the 6th straight. and this from steve is robert, and also called on world leaders to make major changes to the you in refugee convention. obviously this is not something that she would be able to implement unilaterally. but do you think that we will start seeing and hearing more calls for that from other world leaders?

this is the sort of thing from time to time that some world leaders, usually leaders of relatively rich stable countries who see relatively few refugees . do say i called to see that being any progress in relation to that in fact, for the great simple reason as you and hcr of explained earlier in this discussion . the reality is that if we were to re envisage refugee protection in any way that could engage the entirety of the international community, it would be obviously necessary to address the long standing fact that it is poor. this stable countries who remain a host to the vast majority of the wealth refugees and only the richer countries are going to step up and truly share responsibility. all the disparity is likely to

increase the need for some people to be moving ever further in search of safety. that is the she are saying that he's not being addressed, leaving the side of the questions of who else may be forced to move in the future with new conflicts, fully addict, i mention of climate change. but these are things that sweller breaking the has no interest in addressing. she thinks stories politics to be played inc. and the idea that the u. k. can just the opt out of its international responsibilities. clearly, there is no possibility of international agreement around that. it all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all our guests, steve, all the simmons, shelby, i'm on to and tim bill and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just share a. com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash age and side story. you can also join the conversation on x,

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