is from the west of the cause the cubs even echoes falls lines to how those the need in this posting was divided. nation with detailed coverage based hospital was full show during the rescue. operation tank continues to be for those who lost the homes from around the world and they just thought of georgia maloney's message is that this is a european border as well as an autonomy in one requiring a european solution to another coal case, the donald from the latest accusing of fords. the former us president says he's the victim of a witch hunt for the mountain. legal problems don't seem to be denton his popularity to put these trials, health all seem to trumps presidential campaign. this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm emily anglin. donald trump is back in cost. these life is case in new york involve schools of legal charges related to his business dealings. the appearance of a former us president in court has long been considered by many is on thinkable, but not with donald trump. each month springs new legal twists and tens as he campaigns the next is presidential election and a return to the white house trumps legal troubles and now with the core of his campaigning, as he portrays himself as an outside, being persecuted by the political establishment shows the purposes of with the united states. it's totally legal. this judge is bar should be allowed. so why is trumping court? this time gabriel elizondo explains in new this is

a somewhat complicated case, but what it really boils down to are allegations of fraud related to trumps. business dealings and with the trump organization, the new york attorney general's office after a years long investigation brought this case last year. and at the core it alleges the trump and the trump organization, intentionally inflated the value of trumps real estate assets. everything from golf courses to hotels, to apartments, to the tune of $3500000000.00 in order to gain more favorable loan terms. now this isn't very much a crime, and that is why these allegations were brought forth by the attorney general's office. now last week, the judge in this case already made a ruling that trump was liable for falsifying or lying about his wealth on

financial documents. so wires this trial going forward because they're still 6 other locations by the attorney general's office related to this case. and the potential of fraudulent business records and business dealings. how this is a civil not criminal case. and so there is no jury, it's just a judge that will make a ruling. this trial is expected to last several weeks and could go into december. so far it has had no effect on trump's popularity within the republican party. he is still leading the poles and the republican primary for the presidency, the united states, for inside story gabriel's on in new york. the new trial is the latest in a series, the full when you as president sizes, he's been criminally indicted full times with those cases yet to reach trial stage

. let's take a quick recap of some of them. in august, he turned himself in at a jail in georgia, with the 1st ever model shelter of a former us president was taken. trump was named in a 41 accounting diamonds that accused him of trying to overturn his 2020 election to face in the states. he's also criminally charged in a separate federal investigation. it's led by a special council into alleged efforts to overturn the results on that 2020 presidential election jacks mix. also heading an investigation into the use of classified documents. trump faces 14 criminal charges for ms. handling secret papers and storing them at his florida home. he left the one house and finally there's the hush money case in yield. that's about undeclared payments made to an adult film style ahead of the 2016 election. let's bring him out. guess now in washington,

dc is daniel framing fellow at the center of the congressional and presidential studies at the american university of washington, dc. he's reading a book, the house was my home, my life on capitol hill and other titles in philadelphia is class finkelstein is faculty director at the st of ethics and the role of lou at the university of pennsylvania. and also in washington dc is carry sheffield conservative commentator and senior policy analyst at the independent women's forum. i think tank a will welcome it to you. oh, thank you for joining us on this edition of inside story. there is certainly plenty of moving parts to this particular story, but before we get into the politics of it, i want to take a little deeper into the specifics of this case. and daniel, i'll start with you. as we mentioned before, this is not a criminal case, this is a civil case and so the former president isn't facing any jail time. so can you describe to us what the attorney general is hoping to achieve from this particular

trial? well, there are. busy 2 sets of remedies that does he turn general seeking. the 1st is a fairly substantial fine of $250000000.00. but more importantly, they are seeking to pay them the trunk, donald trump, and his relatives from the ability to do business in new york state. which is a would be a huge blow to the truck organization and to the financial settings involved. it does not affect his ability to run for president or vote for himself, so it's mostly affecting his business. now of course, there are the other, the criminal cases working in the background which have a tremendous effect on a lot of things in the election. and i'll get to that

a little bit later, but i think the most important thing this particular case is the ability to do business in new york state. claire, what's at stake for trump? what could this case cost teams specifically. ready we're hearing figures of around $250000000.00 potentially in a 5. what impact is that going to have on him? it is very hard to tell because as he himself said yesterday, hopefully and clearly with each indictment my popularity goes up. now i don't think that will hold for a general election, but at the moment that's how this has been playing to is base. the $250000000.00 to a man like donald trump is very hard to tell what his actual wealth is like. but it may not feel like such a huge hair cut to him. i think it may cost him politically because of the facts that come out. and because of the coordination,

of course that's going on between the manhattan da's office and the new york attorney general. and that has been useful to both cases. but whether or not the verdict itself, which of course already came down on what's called summary judgement last week. now this trial is about the amount of damages. it's not clear whether or not the amount of damages is actually going to impact him. and carry, do you think it's likely that trump will take the stand and if he does, what impact will they? will that have been? what's the, the strategy, do you think of his legal team at this point for this particular case as well? i think it was no accident that he showed up in the court room. i don't believe he needed to be there. i think he went there because he did see that it does help him politically. the more the spotlight is shown on these trials,

and for the reason being is that there is the perception, even among democrats. so among the entire country, there is the perception that these lawsuits are politically motivated. and so the more there is a sense of a political target, i think, uh the answer would be no. if we were to ask with this trial be happening. if this man was running for president, we're not running for president. the answer is no. and in the fact that leticia james, she's explicitly when she was running for her current role in 2018, she said on her victory party night, i will go after donald trump. so that is, you know, a, in my view, a miscarriage of justice just as opposed to be blind. it's not supposed to be shown with the man, i'll show you the crime and was very interesting from the defendant standpoint, to your question on the legal strategy. they did point out in the judge did acknowledge and as ruling that the defendants correctly assert that the record is devoid of any evidence of default breach late payment or any complaint of harm.

that is to say that even though you know i, i agree it is wrong to inflate assets, he shouldn't be claiming square footage sizes that aren't accurate. so there was no evidence of any breach or late payment. so there was no substantive harm. whether or not he received more favorable terms for his less then you know, that gets into the question of the penalty which might be deserved. but in terms of banning someone from commerce in a state, i don't believe that punishment fits the crime. and again, it fits into this broader narrative of a political which time and i would disagree with my previous guest and just recently, in terms of the general election, these trials don't seem to be hurting him. in fact, a b c news just found that donald trump is edging out. president biden 51 percent of 42 percent. that's outside the margin of error. i want to break all of that down because there's a lot to taking the, the festival. daniel, do you think that this is a political witch hunt? i would characterize it that way. i'd like to make a,

a couple of points in response of whether or not donald trump to take the stand. i think that the chances of his lawyer asking him to do that are 0. i don't think you want to have a, a man who is known or for just going off. being able to stand under a that's a tremendous risk. and now the discussion about the valuations of this property, it's interesting not included in this case, or the fact that the overvalued the value of his properties for purposes of getting loans. but he undervalued the same properties for purposes of income taxes. so that's not part of this case, but it is in the background. you'll have to if we're talking about the rest of the criminal cases. i was always told when i was a law school that you win or lose a case when you pick the jury. jury selection in these cases is going to be

extraordinarily difficult, but it'll be hard to find anyone in the world who has not been living under a rock who doesn't know anything about these cases. and i think as far as verification is, are concerned. there are 2 and they apply to all the other. the criminal cases that are involved in donald trump is convicted in any of these cases. the result will be a myriad of appeals which will go on for a long time. as donald trump is saying, a serial litigator, and i think that the effect on his a space, the mega group will be just to support him even better than i think if he is acquitted. then he will say, i told you so that was all of which on and his support will go up dramatically. so i think either way, any of these 3 criminal cases goes,

i think it will probably be down to the benefit of his election possibilities. unless of course, he's sentenced did serve time in jail. if that happens, that's not going to be for quite a while. maybe after the election clear, i want to get your reaction to was gold, monica, and haven't been brought in the new york times. and i quotes the she volume and variety of the legal developments of skew is the individual cases and the fact patton's and plays into trumps argument that his opponents of trying to take him down by whatever means they can your reaction. yeah, i want to begin 1st by responding and this is by way of a response as well to that quote that this is a witch hunt and that donald trump would not be being pursued by leticia. james, in the civil case, if he were not the former president, and if you were not running for office,

i think that's entirely incorrect. i think it's very important to bear in mind the scope of the financial fraud that's lunched here. in fact, more than a less because summary judgement has already been granted. when you are declaring the value of your property to be 10 times or more for one purpose, for purpose of securing alone. what you are declaring it to be for purposes of taxes, or you are vastly inflating the amount of square footage for the same purpose and that cries out for enforcement. that's what the attorney general is there for. to make sure that the state of new york is not being defrauded to make sure the banks are not being defrauded. so i think this is an action that would have cried out for enforcement in any event unless remember that side vance had wanted to bring this

as a criminal case and investigated very carefully, these financial frauds and own most brought a criminal case on the basis of the same facts that by the way, could still happen. i want to agree with them that there is no way that his attorneys will let him take the stand. because number one of that possibility of a still a potential for a criminal case on the same facts because there were 4 other criminal cases out there. where if donald trump commits perjury, in this case, there could be a negative impact on those cases. with regard to the quote um, you know, i, i think that the donald trump will ultimately ultimately pay the norm is price for this kind of conduct. i still believe that the truth will

out here are and we saw that in the case of the january, 6 testimony of the committee, which during those hearings, the multiple hearings that took place summer before last. there was an enormous shift in public opinion that when the evidence was really put before the public, in a systematic case by case piece by piece, man, or public opinion did shift. i agree. there's a welter of, of, of cases out there legal facts to keep straight. it's hard, even for us legal commentators to keep track of all the developments but certain fact stand out. and one of the things that latisha james said yesterday, i think is the, the thing that comes across to people, she said, no matter how rich or powerful you are, there were not 2 sets of laws for people in this country. the rule law must apply

equally to every one, and it is my responsibility to make sure that it does. i think that will come across to people he had read and this is according to his campaign that one of trump's highest days of fundraising came off to the release of his mug shot. carry. my question to you is, how is trump able to galvanize and continue to galvanize such support amongst the american people? well, as, as i said earlier, when i mentioned that trump would not be facing all this myriad range of charges where he not a politician. that's not just me saying that that is the majority of the american people. both democrats and republicans, for example, acquitted. people found that 62 percent of americans, that was a majority of the american people to believe that the charges against donald trump

on the d o j kids were politically motivated and using similar pulling for some of the other statements as well. again, there are too many issues here popping up is like walk them all, but there are numerous pulling and your viewers can check it out for themselves whether what i'm saying is true or not. but the data speaks for itself. so the majority of the american people believe what's happening here is politically motivated and as such, that's part of why his followers are so loyal to him because they believe these attacks are politically motivated. there's also the fact that these cases are not occurring in the isolation. there's a history of unfair attacks against donald trump. for example, the d o j admitted that there was a forgery, or an altering of an e mail, excuse me, for, for a 5 application in order to spy on the trump campaign in the operation known as cross fair hurricane. that the, that is a serious miscarriage of justice for the f b i itself to alter an e mail in order to obtain a 5 of warrant rise shocking display of a miscarriage of justice. you also have a,

another example, dozens of i suppose it experts, me intelligence committee signing onto a letter saying that the 100 binding laptop was quote, you know, you know, the signature rushing distant from nations. and then only years later, for the new york times and other media outlets to verify its veracity. and then other data, suggesting that it could have been determinative. carrie, i'm just going to twin you, i'm just gonna answer right there, that i appreciate that. i appreciate your response, i guess for an international audience and we can kind of look at these individual cases and we will be here for days and days if not wakes. my question to you is how, why is he so popular amongst the american public? when from an outside his perspective, he seems so diametrically different, he is someone that's worth hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more. why is he so popular or galvanizing support in the way that he has?

yeah, well i think it's important for me to talk about specific steps later on, but i understand to zoom out his popularity. it speaks to this broader idea is your over and over in focus groups, for example, that he's proceed does. he's a fighter that he fights for me. there's, there's a phrase for him called the blue collar billionaire. but even though he is very wealthy, he knows how to speak to the average man. and i have gotten to know that the gentleman who was the lead organize of for unions, for trump, just to give you an example or a workers for trump. so you know, the labor union members and workers, blue collar workers for trump. and he ran this in 2016 in 2024 truck. and he said it was very interesting because he'd been in the labor movement for a long time. there was the 1st time he witnessed in his lifetime. republican, effectively able to speak directly to the workers themselves, to the point where many workers were coming to work with their construction hard had on, and it trump sticker even while the union leadership were endorsing the opponent,

the democrats. and he said it was the defiance that the workers were endorsing trump because they liked that. he's a fighter. they feel that he is, he is fighting what you know, with his arms tied behind his back against a system that is briggs and that he wants to unread the system. thank you. carry it clear. i noticed that you had some quite some strong reactions to that and daniel as well. so just briefly, claire, if you want to respond to carry. yeah, i'd like to reject the promise of the question. i don't think you so popular is popular among a certain base, but let's remember that he lost the 2020 election and not by a small margin. this was not a bush v. gore situation. he lost by basically a landslide. it was not close in any state and he lost in some of his traditional base areas and he lost to a, you know, septic genario. um. so the fact that you know, the, uh,

i don't know what to think about current pollings for a potential general election. i think it's far too early to put any stock in what may emerge there. um, but i think he's popular in a certain very narrow base. and studies have shown that one of the things that you know, appeals to about donald trump, up to those who do find him attractive, is that those individuals are deeply in the grip of fox news propaganda and an enormous amount of this information. so i think education is really where this will lie and the, and the coming presidential campaigns will provide a fair amount of education. but we think the fact that he is very much the

republican front runner for the primaries does not really tell us anything about his overall popularity for the country. i think one thing that we can all agree on is the fact that he's dominating headlines. and daniel, if i can direct is question to you, do you think that is a hindrance on the republican campaign, or is it a benefit for the democrats? well, i'd like to go back to the characterization of what donald trump is accused of as his personal foibles. they're not personal swindle's, these are criminal activities. many which all of us have seen on tape, including the phone call to the secretary state of georgia and the moving of the documents. these are federal crime, the state and federal crimes. and if they are approved and beyond a reasonable doubt, i think that there's a serious problem for donald trump in his campaign. i do believe that there will be

some reaction that they will say that they were out to get them and they got them. however, if you prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt, the facts that most of us have been able to see ourselves, including the january 6th events, i think diminishing the severity of those charges as personal foibles is irresponsible and not appropriate. thank you for that comment clack this particular case aside, there was several of the court cases, both state and federal based, which haven't begun. what should we be looking out for and will any of these particular trials, maine, that donald trump can't run in the upcoming election? okay, so there are 2 state until federal criminal indictments. and the main thing to look out for is what is the timing of those trials in georgia?

the, the, that's a very, very complex trial, as your audience probably knows with 19 co defendants, that's going to take a while to get through. but it looks as though there's an attempt to fast track that trial, and we may actually see donald trump in a court room in that case, sometime in the spring, the federal indictment for january 6th, when they also see that when moving pretty quickly. it looks as though the new york criminal trial that has to do with storm stormy daniels and the hush money payments . those are that one is going to take a little bit longer. and then of course, there's some more logo and the documents case. so it's a lot, right, it's a full time job. the donald trump has

a full time job just to keep up with these trials as a defendant to see him. also running for office is going to be very complex. none of these charges would preclude him if proven if he were proven guilty of them from actually becoming president of the way that a charge of insurrection was under the constitution under the 14th amendment, section 3. but it would be a pretty heavy lift and we could have the amazing and unprecedented spectacle of someone who had been elected president, potentially serving in prison for a very, very long time for his entire presidency. and some or more likely, if he were to win the election, these trials would still be going on. now, claire, what happened is a very important question. i'll just give the final question quickly to a carry,

and that being is it true that being accused of wrong doing is actually politically beneficial for, for jump. it is again because there is this mass of perception. again, it's not my word. it's with the american people believe in on the documents case. again, this is 62 percent of the people according to quin a p act which is not a conservative pulling outlet. said that this is politically motivated. and to the point what i was saying about personal for it is just making the distinction between the fact that donald trump, the man versus the world view of conservative versus progressive policy, that is what will actually be on the ballot. so whether it's trump or somebody else, tens of millions of people will vote for donald trump because they don't like bite and nomics. they don't like the fact that joe biden has caused an effective $6000.00 pay cut, median pay, cut per household, and then ask permission from defense when you have $10.00, dozens of suppose it experts lying about something being signature. russian was information. it really back to the question of who's defining this information. and so i reject my co panel as

a claim that but the trump voters are in the throes of misinformation. when the folks themselves who define it are the ones who are aligned to us. well, this is certainly a complicated topic. there are plenty of moving pads, and we appreciate all of your insights and we do have to wrap it up there. but no doubt this will be something that we touch on in the weeks and months to come ahead of the 2024 election. thank you so much. so all of our, i guess we have daniel freeman class finkelstein and carry sheffield, and thank you to for watching at home, you can see the program. and again, any time by visiting a website, ouch is 0 dot com and prefer the discussion goes well facebook page events, facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x, formerly known as twitter. handle is as a inside story for me, emily anglin, and the whole team here, bye for now the

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