so we should be around 19, we got temperature warnings out for portugal, coastal areas on saturday into sunday. and while federal conditions are dominating across the very south, was still seeing on several conditions plaguing in the north spring. some very heavy rain, as well as wintery conditions to norway into sweden, pushing them across into the baltic states, and eventually on to west and pots of rushes more heavy rain as well coming in from northern parts of britain and the island of island. certainly for western parts of scotland, that's where we have the red, yellow warnings out on saturday. but that trailer rang pushing all the way across into northern parts of germany and into poland. but for the south of that lodge, the clear skies and sunshine. 74 easily as well as greece and took here. not sure whether update. the european leaders meet in spain. when you frames hopes for your membership in sharp

focus, the president wants it to happen, but some within the block are privately less enthusiast. so can it become a reality? and what are the difficult? this is inside source, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much i'm room for ukraine. there's been plenty of financial and military support in europe since russia invaded last year and award that seen as a battle ground between east and west. but keepers looking for support on another front to a country once joined with russia in the soviet union. and now wants to join the european union, sharing the economic trading travel unemployment benefits enjoyed by member state powerful and you figure such as your p and commission present. ursula waterlines

spac, ukraine's desire, but making it become a reality is proving far from simple. not everyone shares or enthusiasm. there are worries about the price tag had the impact on existing member states, as well as corruption and ukraine, and how and large the you would function in the future. let's take a quick look at where we're talking about. ukraine is here in the center of europe, bordered by russia and beller roost, as we see here. the use made up of 27 countries, extending right across the continent. ukraine shares of border with several e. u member states, ukraine's possible membership of the you is one of the discussion points at a summit of the european political community that's taking place in the spanish city of grenada. from where sonya go, you go reports the 1st day is the announcements of the arrival of the ukrainian president for legitimate. so lensky is assigned that the issue of ukraine and its place among europe is very much at the center of these talks as well. course there are other issues such as migration,

but the ongoing role in ukraine is certainly one of the topics that is being discussed today. normally, also in connection with the enlargement of the european union subject that has been discussed quite a bit alongside with allowing molto and georgia and expanded version of the european union. now there are number of issues at risk and no mention of course there all the security issues. while european leaders, the leaders of the european union, have expected to continue that supports the ukraine and the war against russia. there is also perhaps a less, a kind of in c z ask them for allowing ukraine into the european union itself. while this has been spearheaded by france and germany. and of course, mentioned by the european commission president sniff ones, a lion who said in parliament last month that ukraine's place was in the union.

there are a number of full mileage sees that are expected to take place before it can happen, even though there are reports of formal talks already occurring as soon as december still there is less than few c as in from other member states as to what this would entail and the accountability that would need to happen. there is also the question of issues such as agriculture. crane is a major, a agricultural producer, as well. that might come to class with other countries and their own worries about how that would conflict with their own agricultural industries as well. it's not good also that negotiate seem to come in agricultural policy and the european union was us normally a complex issue here that will be member states that will be reluctant to perhaps, to open that up again. so when you guys go out, is there a granada inside story?

all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guest in berlin is alana perk of being co co chair of the trans atlantic task force for ukraine fellow with the german marshall fund and former ukrainian finance ministry advisor in brussels. is peter cliff, editor of brussels report. a, you an online news magazine, and then roam is daniella rivera, professor at the center for high defense studies, part of the a time, ministry of defense. she's also a former president of the european piece research association, a warm welcome to you all. and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story daniella. let me start with you today. if a decision is made to open form on the go sions for ukraine to join the e u. how politically fraught will that process be? well the, there's probably be definitely the better one of them to, for a point to go to implications. so obviously there is a future level consideration to be made because it's not so easy for account free any country to be part of the european union. so there are a bunch of for my procedures to be taken into account of the same time that they're

also going to go to consider restaurants because the us always try to expand its boulder. so for strengthening security and for a building, a list of peaceful enables us for sure. it will be a very complicated process which will require a big consensus. and these are the member states so beautifully. and this is probably the most problematic. think elena, ukraine got the candidate status in 2022. that's a process that has taken a lot longer for other countries on the waiting list. ukraine essentially jump the q. i want to ask you 1st. if that is fair. and i also want to ask you from your vantage point, could we see a shorter timeline for ukrainian membership in the u to right? ukraine's you accession process is obviously very complex,

political and technical undertaking, but it doesn't have to be a lengthy one as here, right? so i mentioned to crane received a fast truck b u kind of a c status, and it was also seen by many as a goal that will take years to achieve. yet ukraine received the status just months after it says submitted it's formal application. and though, although you membership for full accession is much more complex and vicious undertaking, ukraine haven't been, has been paying the highest price for the year, can values for freedom and for democracy it has been proving again and again, since the revolution i'm taking it to you to the $1014.00 thoughts, it is ready to fight and ready to die for these values. moreover, speaking about the married based approach to you can of the steps for crane and

about the fairness that's you refer to. it is fair because the crane has been making very significant progress on the reform truck. it has been complying with the southern conditionality of the european commission that have been put forwards uh the to and the tied to cranes further you integration more over less frontier crane past another, a package of legislation to bring it closer to the you and it does need a fast truck procedure, but most important for you, it's a, it's the political will that needs to be there and the obstacles to ukraine's membership. and these, you are largely political and the countries behind them, but they're always hungry. and then slovakia no longer comply with your can values they do not belong to. they are confirmed all that and shouldn't have say in this process. so i would say that it's up to a word, democratic allies in the european union to put pressure on these member states,

and to, to have them seized, blushing ukraine's full integration. and then you obviously, lena, it is very controversial still. and i do want to ask you more about the package of legislation that was passed in ukraine. but 1st i want to go to peter peter, even a formal negotiations for ukraine to join the you were to begin later this year. this is not a short process. i mean, you heard alana talk about the political obstacles that lay ahead when it comes to joining the e. u. how difficult could all of this become and, and from your vantage point, do you think it could become a reality? or i think indeed at this point, it's still very unrealistic and only uh, today we have the former commission president as uncle duke are coming out and saying that you create in is, is very corrupt according to him. and this is something those of course, conformance by international on the rankings. but he also said that we should not

give our friends and he considers ukraine to be a friends, rodney, so we, we should not give our friends false hopes. uh so um, you know, behind the scenes diplomats say that the west is trying to sort of square to circle they want to give you create and hope they want to send material positive signals. but at the same time, in the reform process and ukraine still, it will take a lot of time. then you have a um, what this potential membership of ukraine really have been given this much consideration were not for the russian invasion of ukraine. is that the political reality behind all of this right now? it can be a political reality, but at the same time is this strangely difficult because the kitchen was saying before, there are a lot of political configuration to be made. and uh, uh for sure. uh the, the consideration of, uh,

let's see the relations with the other countries and the bottom piece on the which the. busy the space to are both playing a role actual so for sure, the configuration of the some be surely for my submission can be done. and obviously as i was saying before, a format for features can also be stopped. probably. they may style to in the, in the future or not in the near future, but at the same time. and it's not just and i'd say no to my team process because i've seen many, many difficulties along the line. alana you were talking before about a package of laws that have been passed in ukraine to meet the criteria to join the you. i want to ask you about that because there is a lot of concerns by other member states. if the criteria to join the eu has actually been met at what else needs to be done. one of the big concerns,

of course, is battling corruption. so, what is centrally has been passed that you are referring to and how can you crane? i assure you member states that they are indeed ready to meet the criteria to? well, 1st of all, disagree with the statement that's ukraine is so corrupt that it cannot be a member of the issue. ukraine again, has been making significant progress on this path. and there are reasons to believe that the reports of the assessments have you cranks progress on the past of complying with 7. the european commission can smell it. this will be positive for which means that the, the progress we have been making is consistent with our commitments and consistent with the, with the requirements that's a, that's a crane, has some committed to, to comply with a. we also believe that ukraine is currently much more transparent than many european member states. the here can countries that are members of the you can

union the package to the legislation that was recently passed and the clinging paula months of again brings the crane closer to you. by closing some of the loopholes, corruption loopholes, it's also a opens declaration as the declarations of officials, so between public and this is due to the civil society as pressure. and so, and the work of the civil society, whether your premium government that became possible and it's a significant achievement, the political party reporting is now public and there's a lot, a lot of progress on the anti, all of our causation friends, i can, i can say with confidence, thoughts of the all the guards that's have been influencing ukraine's policy making and economic relations until recently have been removed from these processes. and

this is, this is the progress that we're very proud of. peter, um, from the kind of talk that we've been hearing from brussels, it almost makes it sound like ukraine's membership is a done deal. i wanna ask you why that is the case. and i also want to ask you, what are you members, member leaders saying privately about all this, what's being discuss behind the scenes as well? if you, if you listen to chevrolet, michelle, we, who's the chairman of the european council of member states. he mentioned the dates, i think it was 2013 for you creating to, to enter right now. i mean, this is merely expressing hope, you know, there's no consensus whatsoever about dates and so behind the scenes and countries or splits. uh they, they, uh, you know, they also have to reckon with electrodes that, or let's say, less than enthusiastic about welcoming any country, the west of balkan. so come to mind a, so certainly a country that is coordinating at war with, with, with russia. but i mean,

those are realities. of course, it's good to see in the news that people have to step down over a corruption scandal is in ukraine. i think that the typically that means that something is done about it. so let's be positive here. and maybe the war mostly war brings out only negative things, but perhaps in this case it may sort of send the electro shock to, to the ukranian system and maybe, uh, supports those people that want a genuine reform a. so i think it's important to remain up to mistake. there's definitely great opportunities for your crane. uh but um, yeah, as i mentioned behind the scenes diplomats are mostly working out on giving you creating some kind of comforts. i don't think we can expect any, any hearts commitments, any heart promises but likely is that the european commission will be the most. um, let's say friendly to ukraine in this respect. but just like it's very friendly

towards the west and welcomes and it will be the number of states that the ultimately will need to do the dirty work. and then say despite everything, no, you're not ready yet. mm daniela. since a full you membership is not an easy process to undertake even under the best of circumstances. are there potentially any other options that have been discussed by you members? uh, perhaps another type of roadmap. uh, something that could maybe lead to a gradual integration of ukraine into the you as well if we restore angels something similar to the road map that for example, the west, symbolic comes as a leading and how still leading. but these studies ation enough location process. you may be able to enter them all the probably um his oh is that also true that to an inquiry? no, as being included in the, in the or be a neighbor of the policing the boss to retrieve. i obviously produce less outcomes

that were expected and pulled up. defense was to gradually build a stronger relationship with this comfortably. those countries, uh, and so the defense east that among these big communities of neighbors on the phone countries were actually interested in, uh, getting closer to you and ukraine is, uh, um, for sure. one of this, uh, a role model can obviously be uh, considered the, it can be, it is one of the, the, let's say the police report or the pro, my tech solutions that are usually considered because it is gradual. he takes more time and in the meantime, many issues can be also managed to um, but i found the speaking. i don't think that you crannies interested into these kinds of roadmap because of all that i was saying is a stays necessary to to be foster from the point of view of ukraine sold. and he's

a kind of, he's kind of solution wouldn't be offered. i'm not sure that it wouldn't be very much welcome bye, bye. ukrainian. pricey. then probably it is one of the possible solution. they probably better than a the, the, the long starting process will be in touch phones. but when taking more and more time. but again, in so thoughtful, deep romantic um solution which that's awesome to solve, but everything good ken, just to manage things in the initial term. it's elaina. let me ask you about what daniella was saying. um, do you think that ukraine would accept another type of roadmap or more gradual using into membership of e u because there have been ukranian officials who would have said that they would not accept the 2nd tier as they see it membership that they want to be full members of you and they want that to happen as expeditiously as possible. i yes,

i believe your client will not accept this option. we really have no time to waste of you. membership is absolutely necessary as soon as possible for many reasons. first of all, it would speed up an enhanced ukraine's post for recovery. it volt, assessed the country in dealing with the aftermath of russian genocide and russian mass destruction of the country that has been going on for one and a half year. your membership would also bring ukraine closer to the cutting edge technologies that would make recovery more cost effective and speedy. it would give us access to investments about what again, enhanced the countries prospect for recovery and development of more over in the conditions when the u. s. government has in crisis when the supports for ukraine from the us side is largely threatens and we have no

clarity as to what will, what will happen to us uh, policy in terms of supporting ukraine. it is very critical to have the european countries to have that you take the lead in this process. we need your brain to be as close to the european allies as possible at the moment. but, but i want to emphasize that to ukraine brings so much to the table that it's, it's value the value of its membership and the you is much greater than and you complexity of succession process. and while the, your, for your been struggling with your skeptical moods within the you, ukraine demonstrates 9 to 2 percent of of supports popular support for the countries membership. and it's much higher than in many of the european members in, if you remember, steam ukraine brings to the table as you mentioned,

competitive since it brings to the table, the experience of building a strong democratic infrastructure, democratic institutions in the time for doing the war. all of his experience can and should be utilized by other u member states. daniella you heard elena, they're talking about what she says are the advantages that ukraine bring to you as a potential member. i want to ask you from your vantage point. what leverage does ukraine have when it comes to this process with the you and obtaining membership down the line? yeah, so sure. i mean, if we analyze things that from a political science perspective, let's say on this lisa, in terms of costs and benefits and considerations, obviously, uh ukraine that needs to eat. so it's bringing a lot of things, a lot of benefits in to on the table because for sure it's, it's any and relevant country from a strategic point of view, from

a security point of view and see that this would expand of the, the, the border of the border felt that you will be a new and young and, and of course a few of them mentioned that for my dad we talked to a point of view and also other referral, safe ukraine, a. so for bringing many benefits to the you. but again, making the coffee, the restaurant golf and benefits also calls for should be conceded and from what i see and from what i perceive looking get i commend the states, but for months in europe. um the of the benefits they ceased about the, the sense of the call it go for is a is it's too high for many accounts that you paid for from countries so that they are currently managing the most simple thing. so, i mean, i personally speaking and obviously i'm expressing my own personal views,

obviously. and i would be optimistic and say that to ukraine is i'm closer to the you then we can expect. but what we see is the, the heavy burden of political political wielding nestled states and member states to do something in the betty betty challenging. peter, you heard the danielle there, talk about the costs of all this. and i wanted to ask you about that. if you crane were to join the you, this would come at a massive cost just how much of a financial burden would that constitute for you members state as well the, the financial times uh, run some simulations and uh what, what the notes notable notes the notes or anything there is that a little of your pin number states, what starting from next receivers into next contributors to the european union budgets. so you can imagine that's not exactly uh,

gonna play. and as an argument in favor also that you create and on top of that you create is a very big country. so it will have a little political weight in the context of you decision making. now on at least the 1st thing can be sol relatively easily. at the moment the sort of the mass of transfers that we see within european union are not working very well on these agricultural transfers. a cohesion funds, there's a lot of corruption, it's, it's hands so it ends up in the, in the hands of the organized crime of 40 guards. any economic study is actually quite negative about its effects. also, the same is true for, as i mentioned, agricultural subsidies. so maybe if you're creating with answer this would be a great opportunity to, to get rid of most of these transfers. and that's to uh, to have the opinion to have the european union focused on that score business, which is the single markets. and there, this is really a win win for ukraine and,

and, and the gardens members, members of the, you become, you marcus, what's increase of loss, peter? you were talking about some of the knock on effects of all this for a member states. and i want to ask you more specifically about the issue of agriculture. if you bring in a huge agricultural power house, like your claim to the you, i want to ask how severe the consequences would be. for farmers in other member states, would those farmers have to eventually accept much lower payments uh, subsidies. i mean, how would that play out as well as if you let me decide what i would do to cope with this. it is in the 1st place, scrap a little of these payments. you know, farmers are perfectly capable of in operating in a dynamic market with all the subsidies until done central planning. but then secondly, if you no longer get farmers all that money, you have to give them tax relief. or you have to give them a regulatory relief. and this is probably also good needed because at the moment to

be already in the last 1015 years that we heard look and complaints from the agricultural sector in europe. that's new, great and has a little of excess already to the markets. but that's the you rules. we're not always uh, well implemented there. now of course, nice you regulations are very burdensome, very complicated for farming companies. so perhaps if you crane with the answer and this with also sort of some sort of has an opportunity to de, regulates the farming sector, which again would be, wouldn't win both for ukraine, farmers and to their account of parts in the current you $27.00 elena we only have about a minute and a half left. i want to ask you about just how critical you membership is for ukraine. i'm asking that because you heard about the concerns of other your member states about what it would do, whether it comes to the financial burden. other issues at hand,

how much concern is there a new crane that all of those can that all of that could really hamper this proceeding? or i would 1st of all like to come back on the costs of no question. first of all, uh, the west spends billions of text you roll some dollars on supports and ukraine. while nearly 350000000000 euros are currently frozen and stored in the west, in terms of russian assets that have been frozen in the 1st days of the war. our partners, always, your team partners should find a way you should develop legal mechanisms to channel these prussian assets into supports and ukraine. and this will release significant resources that are necessary for ensuring your prince membership and ukraine, critical and needs your membership. now as i said, it will increase, it'll enhance the country's recovery at full speed out the reform process. it for

a brand new crane, closer to the european market, to the technologists and everything we need to, to build the country and you and to not just for coverage, but to develop it into a strong democratic state. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guest island. alana prokop, ankle, peter clipping, and daniella river. and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again. any time by visiting our website, dr. 0 dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. you can also during the conversation on x, formerly known as twitter or handle is add a j inside story. for me, i'm how much i'm joining the whole team here. bye for now. the the

50 years ago on october the 6th, when muslims were observing remedies and jews with celebrating yom kippur, egypt and syria launched a surprise. war against,

powdered is ro permit itself to get into this situation of disaster. in the 1st of a 3 part series, how to 0 explores what really happened during the 1st week of the war in october. which is the child is killed as a roster carries out new strikes on new cranes call key regions. it comes a day, often a ton killed at least 52 people i'm on inside the cell, just their life from death. also coming up, the funerals take place and serious and the death toll from an attack on a ministry academy rises to at least $189.00 plus

the resting. it will will tell you how as a by johnny full.