the, the challenges with the hundreds of civilians killed and injured and is really a tax on gaza. the government because a total feed fine thing, what it calls human animal earlier. hundreds always raves to find palestinian fine wines. politics failed so badly. lots next to both sides. this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the show. i'm sammy's a, them

a gauze as people living in tara honda. the most intense bombing campaign is well, has evolution just against one of the world's most densely populated areas. meanwhile, more bodies have being recovered in southern israel off the last 5 is a tax and old life policy is riley settlements and the books with targeted israel has announced a complete blockade of gauze. the meeting is 2300000 people face a humanitarian catastrophe. perhaps worse than before. yes, it is right. the occupation and siege of life more than half the population in poverty lacking essential goods and dependent on aid is rouse defense minister, a member of the main stream liquid party and not it's far right. coalition partners describe the siege strategy referring to the palestinians. the fighting. as animals must be leaving. i have ordered a complete siege on the gaza strip. there's no electricity, no food, no water,

no fuel, complete closure. we are fighting human animals and we act accordingly. what's the impact on godson's, as such as to choose from mainstream call, but educated is ready, politicians is death, injury, and that probation report that you made up as a new and there isn't garza city. she sent us some insight into what life is like then now. today, march the 4th day of the x ray goes the word that has started saturday morning after the infiltration of the tightest didn't meet a treat groups and to the as really settlements as retaliation. these were in the army has lost many raids on the goal. is this trip on residential houses, towers and most as well? it has also resulted in the death of many people. hundreds of people, thousands of casualties and thousands of displaced people into the hospitals and normal schools. as there has been no safe place in garza anymore. there also has

been a cuts in power, fuel, water, and food. this leaves us with a complete siege with no anticipations of what's going to happen in the a couple the next couple of days or hours as we have been with this a great now many ambulance has reaching us for hospital with the 10s of people from up the south of goza to meet i was on a garza inside story. garza has been under his right. the blockade for almost 17 year is full thing. it's people into a humanitarian and economic crisis. it's one of the most densely populated areas in the world. a narrow strip of land between israel and egypt about twice the size of washington dc. but with fruitful the population, about 2 thirds of gauze is 2300000 residents. refugees. they live in 8 counts and all dependent on you and assistance. palestinians in the besieged enclave live

in cramped conditions and types courses, making them vulnerable to is riley strikes in the well that spring, i guess into the show. we have joining us from to this francesca and they say, united nation special russell tour on the occupied palestinian territory in haifa. israel is deana bhutto, a lawyer and full a spokeswoman for the palestine liberation organization and the intel of eve, gideon levy a columnist. these are the newspaper ha rights and the old for all the punishment of gaza. will welcome to old. if i could start with diana, you know, the, how common i was thinking, how rare is it in modern political this schools to hear a government minister openly vowing to solve a population of food, water, electricity, and few? well, actually this isn't it all new for israel. busy the, the, the fish,

the israel now tightening has actually been in place now for 17 years. and actually much, much, much longer than that if you, if you look at the system of closure. the problem of course is that is really, is have gotten used to this to this process of d humanizing posted and we heard as much yesterday when he called palestinians human animals. and the fact that he gets to do so with complete impunity. it's this that has led to the events of this past week that somehow they believe that they can do whatever they want to post indians. and that history only began on saturday discount to 56 years of military occupation. this counting 56 years of what they saw over the course of the past, 48 hours being meet it out against palestinians for 56 years. so now if i couldn't down payment, if something has changed though, right?

this was a tote. obviously, garza has been on the seat for 56 years, according to international law. it had originally under occupation for $56.00 is it has been on the siege for 16 years. but now one is where the officials are talking about is total siege and restricting. not just restricting stopping completely the flow of very basic vitals of life. yes, absolutely. and so what they're now giving up to, i want to put it in this context so that people understand this is not new, but they are intensifying it. and the whole point is that what they want to do is commit mass atrocities. and sadly, they're being given the green light by the united states and by other countries around the world. let me move to francesca. nice. this question. the obvious one that comes to mind francesca is, how does this sit with international law? it doesn't, it's it. so it's completely outside which is for me to,

under international law. and this is, in fact it's, it's sounds like a broken record, but this is the trajectory that i have been following in mind. so submissions and documentations all very on the, on the ground. and my predecessors as well. let me the something on visa located on the blue pages. oh, what it's meeting to it's starting patient, which is a crime. so these 2 mining under international and it's and it will be criminally interest. it should be premium and prosecuted as the let me jump in and present to you. perhaps the is ready perspective, least of those who support this fall right. government does witnessing crimes that took place in killing is riley civilians. a tool that sits with the right to quote unquote is they put it self defense that we are defending

ourselves. and we have a legal right to defend ourselves by imposing this complete siege, stopping the population of food, water, electricity, and fuel cannot be justified of hundreds. and i show your me nice. no, no, because self determination is fine. defensive defense of a state is not the basis for just define options that constitutes crimes or other buyer, serious violations of international law, and especially to come into complex social studies. so this is the reality. there are limits any mistake in the cycle of every i've talked. the principles of distinction, precaution and proportionality must be taken, not just during the entire over ation, a part of the chop talk. cdns cannot be targeted and seen any protractor, cannot be targeted, which is no warranties. what is happening and it is not what happened in the

previous 5 words. that is true, it has no interest against the guy since 2008. okay, let me bring gideon into the discussion and get in. obviously, i know that you do not subscribe to the file right wing of his writing politics. but from your understanding of these, right, the body policy that's empowered right now. what do you think is the strategic thinking, the strategic goal of saying, we're going to stop full food, wolf, electricity, and fuel, going into garza to achieve what in this according to your way when it comes to god . when it comes to that part, that when it comes to the occupied territories due to patience, the difference is between the far right wing and the so called central list of mine already sent or so before we get into your question, let's not the labels on the right wing government because i guess

a center and this government would be a right now in the position in this context. we are now a risk center left government who we executive to say, including the stall, the siege, baseball, the sage, as low as your pores. me because this focus each can not class photo the problem to get in. why content last? because in a service stage, people were stopped in god's uh, it is way to be not stand seen. so stuff ation. and the dad was saying it was about a opening day. you went to the car and door and they're having some value ready. 3rd sees via this is not the problem, the problem is 17 use on the ac and you can wait for me. oh, nice dates that don't seem to be normalized by the same cheese.

totally normalized. i use right by the community by every one. and then everyone is, so is the only some show where the body scene is updating. very good, i will be reinstated bombarded measures to both of them. do ok. i want to go back to the, on the, on the, when we put this statement by the is right, the minister of defense about cutting off all food fuel will, to, to gauze, alongside in the context of what these right. the prime minister has been talking about about taking action that will change the middle east, telling palestinians to get out of gone. so do you start to have some concerns about whether there is thinking is really thinking here about demographic change in gaza? is on the table. oh yes. oh yes, absolutely. and people are now calling for a 2nd not a 2nd my mass expulsion of palestinians. the 2nd ethnic cleansing,

and this is where we're gearing up look it's, it's not that far of a stretch when you hear the statements that have been ongoing, not just over the course of the past few days, but that have been ongoing now for decades by this prime minister and the other is really officials in which they say that it's time to get rid of palestinians that they have to finish the job of 1948. when you hear that, you just oppose it with the state by the spot. you are going to just came out yesterday calling us human animals and just impose it with the statement by nothing else saying that people should leave even though there's no place for them to go. because they've closed off the gaza strip. what we're really gearing up to see is mass atrocities, the mass expulsion of palestinians, or the mass. let me jump in as one of them put to these very nice to but we, we hear from these riley ministry that they are making targeted strikes. they say on how mass quotas,

military installations in gone. so this is not mass targeting of the civilian population. that's impossible, that's impossible. it is rarely speak now how mess equals gaza and so that any strikes and gaza to them is a justification for targeting him. us and we know that that is not the case. so about 50 percent of the population of the cost. the strip is under the age of 18. they've lived their entire lives only knowing the siege. they haven't had water, they haven't been secure. they've lived through 5 wars, and yet they have no future. and yet the world still continues to behave as though it's business as usual. and as get it on said the siege, the blockade has become totally normalized. the suffering of palestinians has become totally normalized. the dehumanization of palestinians has reached peak peak levels such that we're not allowed to even respond back to what israel has done to

us for 56 years. all right, let me um, bring gideon back into this can be, is really government change the middle east and nothing. yeah. who was valley without launching a very serious ground? defensive is that really ultimately what we're looking at, i am sure that you're not asking this seriously because it's ridiculous because the is what i need using the same threats and the segment so that the jews so many times and face bridge, anything. so many times, i really need to decide the more a question. i'm ready to book decide the legal wish. but where does it need to mean you are before about the strategic a, a goal or the only strategic or disease right is can have in mind is getting rid of the students in one way or the other. but this is not the real estate board and do

you think that's the thing that's for some policy makers at least. and these are already contemplating right now. and at least in terms of gauze, or they can ready if don't get rid but shift the palestinian populations on how in gaza away from the boulder. why would you be getting the better, you know, mean it's the said, it's clearly when they say about told the bottom bilingual, guys, uh, what was the remaining gas up. they didn't get to the bottom bar above it. the hops francesca. so those who might not survive this right. listening to what the w 8 joe said, only a matter of hours ago about how old a medicine, the medical supplies that they have. pre physician has already run out. what kind of humanitarian situation all we're heading to. and how quickly will emerge if people don't have some of the basics, like medicine, food, fuel, or even will to arrest these ready defense. those there was vowing to cut off the

gaza, the deputy there. the risks are immense and therefore low. so they're going, sorry, we're not talking over the normal situation. the something is cut off from the rest of the world. gaza was already severely defeated and compromised before this happened october and again i, i share the engage ones, dismay under the normalization of the situation on the, at the corruption because the, the blue caden itself, constituents already and we're crime a form of collect, keeps poppy shipment and is what is going to come to the next without, without a central supplies, food medicines, in water or electricity, people are going to die and the wounded will not be able on that. and as i'm sorry, dieter and hospitals will not be able to tour the wounded and there will be

diseases hiding already. people from jobs are fearing, clara, which will happen with the will, the disruption of civilian infrastructure and disability to cure the wounded. diana, if we look closer at the politics of this house, we reach this point in terms of complete failure of the political process and the political systems through a number of ways. the 1st is that there was a lot of emphasis on negotiations and some how to state solution rather than focusing on the problem which is military occupation and the denial of freedom and the closing of palestine. that's one. but then beyond that, it's that there has never been in place a system of accountability regarding israel's actions. israel's never been held to account. my friend, your colleague, shit in the office,

just one example. she was assassinated on may the 11th of last year. and today, nobody has been held to account for that. and there are thousands of shitty ends that are out there where israel has never been held to account. so in the mindset of israel is, this just becomes a system in which they can do whatever it is that they want to do. and, and so let me jump in today. i know you're running a lot of international. the nice ations have documented killings of what they consider to be extra judicial killings of not only june, less than civil society workers, but all the palestinians are members of the palestinian population. and they say very clearly there's a lack of accountability. let me present to the v is really narrative and they would say, what has paralyzed the political process is what they call terrorism by these palestinian groups that they, they keep practicing con thing of civilians and attacks on civilians as the likes of which we've just seen sadly few days ago and so many people lost their life. you

know, this is again trying to flip things on its head. this is not a 2 way its occupation is a one way occupation is real doing the occupying and palestinians are resisting and trying to obtain their freedom. and if they don't like the response, which is 5 minutes, then they have to get to the root of it, which is occupation and occupation. there won't be virus, but that's the problem is that everybody keeps slipping. it on his head, demanding that there will be a peaceful occupation and even then is real. doesn't do anything. so i think rather than the world blaming the victims being the palestinians, they should be looking at themselves and asking themselves, how is it that we've left this system in place now for such a long period of time? how is it that in 2023 we're still talking about the denial of freedom. how is it that this system is still in place and is now apartheid? how is it that this continues to happen? and that's where the, where the problem lies. we need to have adults who are going to come forward and

who is real accountable, without that israel continued to do whatever it wants. and the humanized palestinians in the process and then be shocked when there is a response. get in. i know you said earlier that you don't see there's a lot of difference right now. the thinking between the far right and the i think the center left was what you were talking about. but bear with me for a moment. gideon, when you look back at the statements of people in this way, the government like the minister of finance bezel and small, it's rich, his coal in march for palestinian villages like colada to be a raised is the something of a history in the thinking of at least that broncho is riley body politics about population change, raising villages raising towns as a solution as a policy option. specifically is what he's doing aids slowly, slowly, very gradually. but it's

a lot of bio said he wasn't looking for the bands. people were approved it from the land speed through uh to the home, some of the properties, and then the silent which was the export of the their rice, bentley. now they might have decided one day to leave this business had, but no doubt that they were totally cool. those think she's fooled, honest, so they didn't finish off and they will not cease. will they be europeans like that side of smoke damage and bang for adults. no doubt that they're in touring is really by far more extreme than they more civilized your story of the central days . maybe they have planned so much small, crazy. but by the end of the day, the real danger is vedo. so more moderate twats because they don't, they basic and they just, they establish they,

they will keep patient this company. they said to them and pro drug. and the stop is, you know, that, but that's, is that, and they do it so the, your relatively solely and there for them much small these drugs these because nobody can say games they, they don't so good or no or things say, you know, that the silent majority some bolting boston is one in the work, one big stream use a g string, some kind of for now. so we should concentrate on the main stream of phase, right. this is our problem. francesca if we, if is riley statesman who are making statements like total siege, total bombing. if that is carried out, why do we see a situation in which pressure will mount maybe on egypt to open up that boulder?

we witness some kind of mass exodus of palestinians from gonzo into egypt. but this is what kind of this time, this is. i mean is one of the possible scenarios because this is what is right. there are the statement by threatening officials in the sense that and their response by egypt i've challenging this, this is not the possible scenario. but what it seems to me is that the measure is stick and including the bomb being all there are crossing seems to or intention to be starving, kill the people who are and said, sorry to because us troops now. and of course college students here that the defense of a 2nd knocked about which wouldn't be really a 2nd because there are being so many senses of displacement, including we shouldn't forget to them. in 1967 to 150000 college students were displaced the so it's been a,

an ongoing force displacement for them. but of course, the fear that i'm there, that there will be possibly displaced and never allowed to return even to the, to the legal and to the demons every day of being confined to and also get in. i know we talked a moment ago about what is the strategic thinking? can we talk at least a bit about what is the broad a goal? is the calculus or is the broad the goal here to try and return to a situation where you can have an occupation and extended occupation with level cost to as well as security to its reputation. to get back to that kind of scenario, is that what's being targeted? that's exactly what this level is sort of like to leave in the sense security or the connection to being a door closing guideline the worst. and then that was,

i mean let us ok by then does to your internet, but it sees that does q civilians that does approve them from their lives and don't bother us and don't disease and behaviors since there is able to prom easy viewing . behavioral so we're going to tell you that these, namely women, brightview was the monthly sunday and everyone would be happy that by this date is said on the 7th day, not the 1st by about the most. bolton, and by the way there, but it's been said on 7 days, this is not enough. and this cannot last for the data since we're talking about changing calculus is has the calculus change for internal palestinian politics, especially the p a of to the events, the recent events we're seeing? oh, most most definitely, yes. look, it's been changing for

a while because we've increasingly seen that the palestinian authority has lost all support, both in the west bank and the gaza strip. we are of course, seeing that more and more people recognize that there is that there needs to be resistance to military occupation. and the palestinian authority has done absolutely nothing to protect palestinians or to even offer an alternative. so yes, the calculation has completely changed. now, within the mindset of palestinians, so much so that of imagine what are the best who was irrelevant before has been made even more irrelevant now to sign chesko, what other political options going forward do you think of this kind of very bleak scenario? yeah, just one comment on and again, not without. i know that this is something that might, might sound a strong while if there is

a right to resist an oppressive regina and the other students have been unaware under oppressive regina for decades. now. it's also, there is any parent you have to remind ourselves that model scheming a is not justified. so i would like to take the car. i mean, saturday, as an example, not to go to show francesca and yeah, and uh, and uh, now in terms of what are the political options. i will tell you what i would recommend and been because there is nothing that is really being put on the table by the main policymakers, other than the one sided to support and, and violence and armed are the responses. so i think the 1st of all it's, it's fundamental to negotiate the truths with immediate suspicion of a student is the release of the hostages,

but also the other person to the policy and so on to and so on. could on you, we've gone through the so many times, haven't we in conflicts, a lifestyle, some of that is just the 1st step isn't just the 1st step. the 2nd, these reinforcing to monetary an aide and then forming the un task force to ensure, i'm sorry to monitor to us, but also to ensure it protects the presence of the, of the students and others on the ground. because and again, this has always been to decide the, this is the, in the short term in the longer term. i mean, the medium term, what does need to be the device is a comma to him to be able to patients. but not in any years. it is to be stuff it needs to start to be discussed now and not in visa gene, the realization of productivity and self determination. and, you know, once the piece process is a cheap because this is like kicking the cutting the air frankly. all right, this time, the more i'm sure that we could discuss what i have to leave that for now. let's

try and call guess francesca and vanessa deanna, bhutto and gideon levy. and thank you to for watching. you can visit the show again, any time by heading over to our website. i'll just 0. don't com for further discussion. go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. can also join the conversation on x, formerly known as twist though you might remember handle that or is that a j inside story from me, sammy's a, that on the whole team here for now. the the

the hello i'm serial venue is good to have you with us. this is the news our lives from the coming up in the program today scenes of devastation as is really airstrikes hit gaza. at least 830 palestinians have been killed since saturday. and the years .