as the conflict between because that is rep escalates of jersey or brings in depth views of the 11th. as soon as the conversion goes on, search through because we continue define the study and people have that i to defend themselves at the front of study and people we continue start getting for the legitimate slides. it's possible and necessary to stand with both the policy and send this right. this is a random bumper. stay with us for the latest developments on the jersey to the west as united in packing israel since that that is on the time bio mass and western governments of avoided, criticizing the intensive is really bumming of gaza. so how is western policy towards israel and palestine over decades affecting the conflict today? this is inside story, the

hello that i'm james bay's, the desk told in the gaza will continues to rise as israel pounds palestinians with this intensive bombing of densely populated areas. since israel was founded in 1948, the united states has been its stories, satellite sentiments expressed by the us president of the home ask on, been killed. hundreds of his riley's on saturday by commitment is a security. the safety of the 2 is people is unshakable. united states has israel's back and we're going to be working on this all through the day and beyond. the u. k . is another of israel, strongest, political and military back isn't his place to continue with its intelligence and security support. we already have a very long standing relationship with israel, with one of the strongest allies we've provided in the past, the top kinds of equipment that they used to defend themselves over the last couple of days. and as i said to the prime minister,

we will continue to provide whether that's diplomatic intelligence, social security, support as they need shortly off the sounds of these attack, you commission president us up on the line was quick to support israel and a tweak. she said i spoke to my friend president as a coach goes on the convey to him my full support to israel in the face of today's terrorist, attacked by him. ass reset. read to write. the israel has the right to self defense, the humans, the victims of the sense that the attacks and stands by israel today. and in the next week the u. s. and the u haul, so provided financial and humanitarian support the policy ins, but that's coming under pressure and increased cushion they since the events last, we tend the by the administration's provided about half a $1000000000.00 and funding since most was frozen by the previous president. donald trump was off to the attack by how mass your pin commissioner declared bolden, $700000000.00 worth of a to publish thing is would be caught. but the e. u has since clarified that funding will continue for now.

so that last spring, you know, a puddle of gas to discuss it all in doha, abdullah out already on the associate professor of history at georgetown university in castle. he's a specialist on us middle east policy in rome. is maria luisa on top of your head of middle east and africa program for the italian think time institute to a faulty international holler. and in dublin is richard boyd. barrett, a member of the irish pub in the parliament, with the people before profit of policy, a warm welcome to your old, like i would like to start with you up till if i can. right at the beginning of the basics, perhaps no surprise the tool israel is still actually being backed by the us to. yeah, i mean, as you say, there is no surprise really in this policy. this is something that has been part and parcel of us ford policy in this region for quite some time, but i would like to focus on weight maybe what some of the differences are. i think what we're seeing really over the course of the past decade or so has been

a complete abandonment, even of any pretense of becoming a so called, honest broker. we know that us never effectively managed to offer you know, the palestinians. of course, being, you know, complete leads, you know, denied their own liberation, their own state. there was a thoughts in the 1990s that the united states could sponsor a process that the so called oslo accords as a means of providing them with statehood. but from the very beginning, i mean really going back to the mid ninety's, it was very clear that israel had no intention of actually delivering on this 2 state solution. and instead you use that opportunity of pass if any, from the palestinian side to double and triple the number of settlements and sort expansion across all of the palestinian territories. and then of course, later on, once we get into the mid, early to mid to thousands, we see this blockade of guys are beginning. and the kind of in circle meant in besiege meant of what is now over 2000000 people population. and so i think what's really distinct about the last decade in particular, you know,

going back maybe until the late obama period. so then of course, under donald trump, who everyone saw as being a kind of very exceptional president, as, as one who sort of says out loud, what most us policymakers would never dare to speak is that he cared nothing whatsoever for the plight or palestinians. he completely circumvented and bypassed any demands and kept them basically in the exact same situation that they continued to be in. and instead, focused on this idea of normalization between is real and a number of arab states, all of whom, of course, found mutual benefits. and that arrangement under a kind of us regional security umbrella. and along with that of course, all of the major economic benefits. and so in the meantime, the palestinian question was no longer even on the back burner. assembly didn't exist. there has been no discussion whatsoever. and then we get to the bind in administration, and they simply inherited the trunk foreign policy to the middle east. we've seen no distinction between what trump was doing. you know, the by that administration endorsed the move of the us embassy to jerusalem,

which was an incredibly volatile move and have been a very daring move in a way, in terms of upsetting what had been seen at that point as be something over no go because of the fact that jerusalem continues to be considered occupied territory by the us and by international law. and then of course we see there's a push to double down on the normalization agreements between is real and now it's audio radio which is kind of the big fish and all of this. so i think there is something to be said about the fact that us policy has gotten even more staunchly, you know, and oppositions have any notion that there should be anything of a settlement for palestinians who continue to be stainless and, and very much on stock in this kind of a par type situation. maria, let me just ask you, if you could say what we're seeing on our screens is what we've seen play out many times before in garza. but there are big differences to the scale of these. randy casualty is the largest loss of life and an attack in the country's history,

the tactics that we used by him, us. and also how important do you think is the fact that this time there are captives inside guns? you know, definitely. i mean, this is uh something, uh that is a way to unprecedented and um, the into so like the level of the infiltration suite in like the, these rated territory. and i think the assistant expands. uh, it's a, it's been something that's a camel. so as a shaw could to the western and european public opinion, and this is why also there has been such a sort of skipped. the frantic responses also from the human institutions was served an extended because the level of the violence of being so shocking it to the public that then this has created a very emotional response to assertive distance and expand and long. um,

definitely uh the new uh as being the whole was uh like, uh, supporting the idea of the, just a solution by saying that the problem has been that the 1st, the 1st responses were actually much more inclined to were showing it. so they directed towards either ends, which is normal, but however, i think that it has been in his management team. the communication also because of this has created some confusion on what actually on where they use best to be that view of this conflict. so a lot of emotions the and the little attention, i think for the what as being the strategy towards this concept for, for many of them so that you approach a new responses in the early days of this conflict. but richard, you are also in a b u capital, like maria. i wanna come back to the you, if i may, does that in motion the maria talks about? does that explain the fact that the,

the white house statements seem to lack any of the usual cause cools for proportionate response? so exercise of restraint. yes, i think that is the case. and i, i mean, jag, for example, are minister of foreign affairs yesterday where he was being interviewed as i was on the radio. and he felt able to say vast israel was acting in self defense as a when he was questioned about israel's threats to bad star. does that, i know this population of, or the energy of food. he could use terminology like self defense. and obviously i, you know, i challenge that very, very strongly and said disaster it, this was not self defense and the trash to collectively punish 2200000 people

to a, you know, bombard with mass of artillery strikes and the most densely populated residential area in the world world war crimes. and if they, if you, like, we did, those you were speaking on behalf of palestinians were being post on the defensive . and so i think there's, in the united states israel feeling those items to be able to act with granger. impunity that they might on the wise the field. and that we're seeing that as you know, with the extraordinary explosives and brazen traps by israel to come is on. and indeed, they've started to promote more crimes and in front of the eyes of the world and say explicitly about what they're going to do, which is by any definition is

a war crime that they're just going to do it any way in the united states stands firmly behind them and many if not all, most of the european union leaders equally sort of giving legit, tennessee to bodies riley's doing so it's really a shocking when of course, the truth of the matter is that's what happens and it's, you know, the, the loss of life is terrible and everybody is, is appalled by this escalation of violence, but certainly i think i feel that many people would feel none of what happened to get caught up. happen were it not for a 17 year long sage on guys that the extraordinary sort of escalation of the war and the palestinians by d as riley at this particularly vicious, is variety, governments own as in yahoo smock origin. ben gave her a body's bodies. the real context is the, is the ongoing crimes against your miles. you've been committed against apollo stadiums or there is no damage that that is around sales and bones at the moment as

do it's major backers. so richard just laid out the narrative as he sees it in the context of the low. but just tell us a bit about how this is seen in the us because you study the us and it's policy towards the middle east. i mean, i watch us media as well. in fact i, i, i live most of the time in new york, although i'm currently in though 22 us citizens killed. 17 missing and may be held prisoner. do you think the prison, the cost of it and the would hostage is the one that's being used in the us media? do you think that perhaps explain some of, of, of the reporting and then some of the actions by the administration? well, certainly i think, you know, part of it is the media coverage. i think there's a narrative that immediately takes hold. the moment events like this, you know, happened. and that narrative tends to be in a kind of a very one dimensional way. it will pay $1.00 side as an aggressor paint one side

is victim, and then erase all history, all context, all even recent events as if you know, everything just sort of occurs in this bubble in this vacuum on the day of, of, you know, these, these horrific events, and so i think somebody else do i have been a part of what can i ask you to the historical context of, of hostage crisis. i'm going a long way back to 1979, but in fact, you know, president biden was one of the closest supporters a president call to do you think that historical echo may perhaps explain why why the occupant of the west wing is pursuing the policy is i don't know that it's that that would necessarily be the connection. i mean, i think in general there's been seen as this massive support for israel in particular because let's not forget, there are palestinian americans that are constantly being victimized that are concept being oppressed that are being killed by israel, right? we, we know the case of your colleagues should be in a box that was a palace city, an american journalist. and if you look at all of the attends by the family to go

and seek any kind of investigation on the part of the us into her killing by israel last year. there was almost no response, right? them us, secretary of state was not flying to israel. it to have conversations about the safety and return of is rarely americans could never do the same for palestinian americans. i think that's a, it's, there's a fair question there. as far as why is this always been the case? why is there a double standard wire, some american citizen lives, you know, worth less than others? i think this is, this is certainly something that comes out of a much deeper affinity that the us has always had with the state of israel irrespective of its actions. irrespective of, as we see there is an our growing international consensus about the fact that there's an apartheid system that's in place about the fact that we've seen violence of this scale on multiple other occasions. although now certainly it's been ramped up even further, and it's been in large part because of the us offering a kind of a green light that we've never really seen up to this point. and even in terms of

the, the violence that we're seeing, it's not just and guys of even going into the west bank with some of the shooting sprays that we're hearing about in terms of, of, you know, palestinians for essentially escaping some of these kinds of revenge. attacks that we see. so i think that there's a, there's a bigger, deeper context here that seems to be ignored. we don't care about most of this in the us media and public opinion and sympathies have certainly aligned in a very particular kind of way that is very much in keeping with the longer standing narrative that the issue monetization of palestinians. the idea that you can have officials both in the us and an israel make, you know, an incredibly deep human as in racist genocidal remarks. and it goes completely on i'm responded to right. or the media does not make any kind of an attempt to challenge any of those narratives. what let me bring that up with richard. i mean that some of the things you probably heard from across the atlantic parallels with 911 senator lindsey graham. we're in a religious war on a, on

a public drastically stand with israel, a news conference in recent. how's the us secretary state and these really prime minister saying how mouse is the same as the actual oh i sold whatever you call it . what do you make people of is that sort of language? yeah, well i, i, i think a deal is absolutely right. i mean, i think public opinion over the last number of years has increasingly become aware of the, the a part dies nature of d as riley regime. all the, it's that it's, you know, ongoing campaigns of ethnic cleansing. it's dysfunctional and sort of a abnormal characters been highlighted by the amnesty international reports on human rights watch reports and other reports i've added the apartheid nature of that stage. and so on. the one that is right has been de legitimized in the minds of millions of people,

but now uh israel and his bikers feel they have an opportunity to push back against all of that. and again, is dollars said it's like they start the clock of the story. what happened over the weekend as if there is no other context as uh, they rely on, you know, the lack of knowledge or information or awareness of the background and history to all of this. uh, all of significant sections of the public in the united states and in europe to kind of, if you know, a normal about history, so we'd all just starved and not the weekends. now i think, you know, we own, oh, that's not true. and if i got, yeah, i will give credit to the irish president, mary robinson, the former irish president. and she was being interviewed on the radio. just about an hour ago i was listening to her and she was managing the point as a, during the summer. she warned that if the siege of guys that was lifted,

if the imperial energy of israel was joining in terms of the ethnic crimes and the legal settlements, the ongoing, brutal out your patients. if these matters were not going to be addressed by the international community that she feared. and this was during the summer that we were phasing into a terrifying escalation, all bottoms, an uncontrollable. i think escalation of bylaws and she bizarre. so the, the rice and that is the context, but of course, is around the united states that rockers in europe want to pretend that there was no history to all of this. and it all began with the events of the weekends and they are trying to use that then to justify. i need a more savage, a escalation of the war on guys and on the palestinian generally there, i'd like to put to the point that i made to the wrong. this is a complete indictment of the bite and strategy on the is riley palestinian conflict,

which seems to be mostly set the continuation of the trump strategy. and it basically wants to ignore the policies to go around the palestinians. try and get an economic piece with arab countries. what's your view of how that strategy has played out? i think that they've been laid out in a tragic uh way in the sense that the, despite the definition that either uh, luca causes of his coffee that is locked in his own going from 7 to the kids. however, there is, there is not conflicts the in reach this of thought to please. and there is a lot of conflicts that is one of which for several weeks and for several months is that is being in our most pressuring versus by the, by washington on the, on the on. so the read. yeah. and, uh, on the golf. engender though, so they've been particular to obviously the go ahead with this and then i'm on a vision view. so um,

which is between southern india and israel. so is this more money additions deal um which include them, have been that again. so they were interested in doing it since in the amount of the needed 3, uh, uh, military, uh, infrastructure. if this deal was doesn't happen. obviously the police being an issue with the being uh, i think old police reasons completely from the, from the, from the discussion of the to is that despite the solid ease, uh wishes or uh, statements that they wanted to video or something on this, the, it seems to me that the action that i paid there was no one doing that. um there was no action wishes from anything. now government to activity, they either anything on this. so these red is obviously were convinced that the sellers could be okay. just with the, with the ministry deal that watches out of ministration, probably. so it's the same. and that obviously has to be used as a push back investigated. it pushed back to i believe not all of the uh, from uh,

local, move them into like home office, but also i think from many of the original they used to cool, did not want to disclose to disappear from the deeds. so i think that them on the back of a mouse in some way we that brings back the police being an issue at the very center of the region on if you need be on the mom and didn't reach at risk it to be towards any um, they need to do, but it is important to say that's a part of this, a tragic advantage. also. i think the in director and even the direct result of a us strategy which really for the hand but this one of my vision and didn't understand that. you know, there's too long the to achieve them. their money is addition to using the time you need to kind of the session. but they didn't have time because there was a business election and they didn't want to make a session. or they didn't want to pressure these right in the government to make

our session. it seems. and so the result has been the all his, the push back. so i think that the somehow, if you compare this approach to with the, what we have seen over the past mom. so the chinese approach, which has been that child trying to actually get the brew break broke a deal between the original rivals. but just so that even your on it will most comes to the point of saying that the chinese strategy has been a so far may be more successful. so i think that the ged that is the loss of rethinking, of, uh, how washington moves uh, when it comes to uh, to minimize ition. i think the normal edition could be possible. but now with the some steps for the on the policy number, he sure which is substantial, except for abdullah, we see secretary blinking in the region. now he's not looking at the big picture. he's showing support for israel, but he's also focusing and we had talk about humanitarian colored car doors and

safe passage. there's already been detailed negotiations. we understand between these railways and the egyptians, the us now reported that the sex just state will be coming to catch all the. but i'm also hearing reports that egypt and also allowing a mass movement of people in to its territory. could we be looking at a, some sort of deal with dual nationals, us nationals. we think there are about 5 or $600.00 or without all out of rafa and the rest of the population of goals and get stuck the. i mean, i don't think we have any indication of that as of yet that there is a specific codes concern for, for us citizens there. certainly there hasn't been over the course of almost a week of, of incense carpet bombing of the entire territory of gaza. you know, i, i think in terms of what the response has been for people who have attempted to go to the board. or of course, as we've seen, you know, instances of, of a 0 actually bombing the crossing. and so people who are attempting to cross at

that point, and then there's also been of course, the denial by israel and the threats made that if egypt were to try to offer aid to enter into the guys or that they would also be bombing that those a convoys, so you know, they're, there really is a question here about what you've been controls, the territory, the border between guys are our palestine and egypt. and i think that's, you know, and there's another point that i think is worth considering, which is going back to that kind of the previous conversation about the view of these normalization agreements from the air upside as well. because i do think that, that, you know, we have transition from a period in which, you know, many of the regions rulers would at least pay lip service to the notion of the palestine issue to the point where it gets completely erased. and i think that's because the nature of how legitimize ation of these regimes happens has changed substantially in the aftermath of the spring uprisings. and so now we're looking at, over the decades from that period in which many of these governments are ruling their own populations quite ruthlessly. so it's not surprising that they would not even entertain the notion of,

of justice for palestinians. and so i think it has actually in some ways is the process by which these normalization deals going to happen. loretta back to you. we seen the responses of the us and the little paper they look very similar. but do you think within the u comp, that is perhaps some on these behind the scenes certainly before the latest defense, over the last 18 months in my day job at the united nations of speaking to you politicians, the diplomat. see what the showing real disqualify about the is riley, most right wing governments and some of this activities definitely that our district and its a managed, i mean different members, they said the whole so the for the policy is different approaches that have been uh, definitely a discomfort though with the uh the, the financial government and the retrenchment of the democratic freedoms in israel by being that little bit older has been the whole was the, um, i mean,

the discussion about uh, supporting the is really concerns when it comes to security concerns. so all of these are, this is, is it is something that, that is all was present. but i think the other question to ask is more of what the rules for the you all so in this situation, because after this uh, very confusing response to where the one commission came out. thing we will have to catch the aides and the developer. the, the, the main thing i need to, they probably as soon as hoses then, you know, there has been that and it going back to the disposition and then all we will. * and then so the very confusing response in the 1st days, i think that however, now that you is, is being basis of the you and in the interest also of the united states really avoid that. there isn't on addition of this conflict, and therefore this is why such a motion of response to a and bull arising thrown on the contract that must have being. i think that the use should source of everything except through which we invest really into that

what the been like. that was the solution idea, but also, and most importantly on the, you know, of a how full know started the leveraging on those regional play. yes. so it's presenting the goal will actually do not to the agent on a vision of the concrete, to engage with them and, and try to really, um, the source of support. the containment of this, of this conflict, if we can say so and not it's a spread knowledge to trust. and we let me put that, put that to richard because you are just one individual. you pull the patients. what should individual, individual politicians, what should members of the public do very quickly to end the conversation as well? well, i mean, certainly what i am doing as others of like mines are trying to say in the face of people being horrified at what they're looking as this terrible

escalation of items that we have to get to the root. cause that if, if this is not going to get even worse and continue forever at the, we need to get to the root cause and in my view, and certainly what i have been arguing and a very strongly. and i think many others are, is that the root cause of this is a, the, a par dyke nature of these, right, these days, the colonial list nature of these right, these days that it is based on the ethnic cleansing of a panelist, indians, on the denial of their most basic rights, the rights to return the right to self determination. and that is based entirely on the ruthless, brutal that murder, a suppression of palestinian rights under this, in the same way as apartheid is that africa was not acceptable. a movement differentially, of resistance inside south africa as well as internationally,

finally led to the dismantling of that regime that that is the only way we're going to get these and just as in palestine. thank you richard. thank you to all guess to maria, the visa on top of your bill. i'll already on on richard boyd. barrett's fascinating conversation, if you didn't catch it or you can see it again on the website, i would just say we're don't. com on this show we discuss one of the main stores of the day. so i'm sure what the ongoing will be to focus last conversation for sometimes come, do you have a comment on an aspect of this story? and i think you want us to couple of get in touch, find our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story or on x. that's the one i still called twitter. we're at a inside story for me, james. based on the team. bye for now the

we understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the world. so no matter what, i'll do to bring you the news car and fast the matter to you. how does era, the israel orders more than a 1000000 people and then all the gaza strip to leave and move size of these 1500 palestinians are being killed and is where the air strikes and saturday. the robots in business life from don't have also coming up for you on his warning of devastating humanitarian consequences. if so many people are forced to move the israel.