i'm looking for these candidates for the any stand, a chance it gets donald trump, if our planet is burning and we're running out of time, why aren't we doing more to deal with climate change? our american politics just getting through the whole life intuit stream for most americans because it can look us politics the bottom line. the huge route is preparing to carry out a ground defensive in garza. but there are concerns about what will happen to those cap shipped by a mouse. with 5 minutes to benjamin netanyahu facing growing public kind of willie is ready the military go into regardless of the risk. this is inside stored the hello again on james, based on the palm,

boardman for more than 2 weeks. the gaza strip is bracing for an old out is really ground defensive. these right, the military leadership has declared his operation will be like no. all the promising victory of a mass, but others fear the lives of those cap should by the palestinian group are in jeopardy. the u. s. as reported with most israel to the lights, attacked in the hope of securing the release of captives held by him. us will go to our guest on our panel in a moment, but 1st this report by own ecosystem should leave as well as leaders. so they will watch how most of the face of the, of these us some of the forces they intend to use. for additional types of people take one month to month, 3 months of energy and they'll be normal. how much before, how much context of tanks and our inventory. they will know as a shells from our apples to, to, to, of hundreds of thousands of his by lever service have been called up to join a plan. ground defensive on casa,

and the u. s. is expanding its ministry presence in the middle east in support of his ride. the army conducted ground defenses and golf. so again, symbols in 20142019 back then it same bush to punish and diminished that i'm true. but now the army wants to go further. i'm not able to turn this equation, the 180 degrees. the day of the attack will be remembered as the day that started the final incompletes destruction of the hum us terrorist organization. but while the is really all the steps up, it's preparations and bombardment of garza faces challenges at home. the families of 222 captors being held by him us since it attacks southern is one nearly 3 weeks ago. i'm calling for the release the head

back now to american hostages, have been freed, under mediation by cup of the army, says is conducting rates to find out where are the captives of being held inside garza, the model of these area rates are inside garza, i'm a close contact to research locations and seek information of the missing and hostages of ahead of the ground invasion. more than the median palestinians have been ordered to move south from the north of the golf house trip. these really ami is born and those don't really be constant tetra, supporters to the smaller humanitarian crisis unfolding in gaza. many a concern, a major battle between israel saw me and him off forces control and countries in the region and even global powers. and the consumption of these phones that story

well, let's bring it to a panel of guests to discuss all of this in london. you'll see medical book associate fellow in the middle east and north africa program at chatham house in birmingham, scott lucas, professor, the tents and institute at university college. dublin. he's also a founder and editor of a, a will view, a news analysis site and also in london. is roxan farm on for money on profess of molten middle east politics at the university of cambridge hello to you all. thank you very much for joining us. oh, so let's talk about the possibility that israel is under pressure to delay its ground. defensive starting with you, you'll see from what we hear. no problem with discussing all of this military plans a secret, but from what we hear in the reports, we hear israel is already delayed the several times. a good in the way is, is we for this see, or was, it might be actually a good news that there was

a day in there, maybe so that i should because you know exactly what the consequences on, you know, the consequences of such. ready gums will send students, it's bound to cost many, many lice, and i think that all they send it, lisa, so they're a lives on their deserves se eliza vase and to mobilize like to know the see how the thousands mobilized. it means they need to be things they need to be a quick, they need to be like it was, were for the last to do the nation, sir. and be so excited especially that also the tensions and mold intentions seem to know. then go to the those international community that the rest of these mounting because we see the level of casualties on the, on their, on their palestinian side menu of all civilians. and how it's going to affect the vision. always going to fix on the simulation. and it's not so good. so we think

that least the 222 a hostages only to us to just have been really said that stuff and b as one is white. there is a role in there on defensive stops the source that just might be using the human. she's actually quoting the will and there's a result to face. we don't know what's going to be the face of a lot of places and actually also to think what is that for me to kind of name or section of it. if at the beginning that these are the government talks about the national altogether from us, this is actually as 5 as i'm older. so we filed, shooting thousands and thousands of innocent civilians, all different bits to be and much more limited the plan. so there's not rocks um, um we, when we sold a present bite and go for a very brief visit just to israel last week. yes, everyone focused on how supportive he was of these ready people in these, right? the government. but he did say in that speech, do not rush to war and avoid the mistakes that the us made in 911. 0 yes,

i think it was clear that he was off and certainly in the behind the scenes as well . one would imagine presenting an alternative view that although he was supporting israel's right to protect itself, he was clearly putting brakes on exactly how israel would go about that. saying that there would be implications if it approached it in the wrong way. and i think we're seeing the response across the many capitals in the world, including the error world, that there is an alternative perspective on best that it is against international law. of course a to forcibly moved people and to attack a whole community as a, as going on and gaza. and so i think there is definitely a degree of caution that the is really sort of having to build into their plans

simply to avoid being further isolated as the end of this. and i think the initial program that they set out was very much simply looking at retaliation. and now they're having to look at the end game scots. we hear from reports that is actually the main conduit because waiting israel to slow down is the daily meeting between the us defense secretary lloyd austin and his office number these right, the defense minister you'll have go on to seems to be the most whole case of those in the military leadership on the report. so saying the reasons and use these already mentioned. some of these are those that are being held by how mass they need to get more 8 into gaza to protect us interest. and the regions of those sound like the reasons why the us would be urging caution at the moment to you. i think the wine, which has been late to the media on, by american and israeli officials,

that is primarily because of those 222 hostages, about 50 of whom are for nationals. i think that's actually just simply a convenient pretext for what has been the line, not just of the your wealth, but of much of the international community. very since, very soon after from office mass murder of israel, they shall go into 4 nations. and that is, there's a 2 phone message here, and i think it's important emphasizes the 1st part of the message, not just from us, but from european leaders from leaders or other parts of the world, including asia and also latin america has been what about crossed a line of acceptability, when it carried out those mass murders, it can no longer be treated as, as legitimate leadership and also to provide stability and security. but at least for the 2nd part of the message, which has been the one which has been given repeatedly and not just by jo body, nasa lincoln, which is a drops and was pointing out, how do you get rid of how much?

how do you achieve this and, you know, if we're moving this leadership, that's korea committed crimes against humanity, without alienating and date, of course, turn not necessarily under all of jobs or civilians. so i do think that the emphasis was for israel, of to not carry out a ground, a sense of and i think is where it was on the verge. that ground a sense of last week. i think it's also for israel to limit the bombing, which is showing no signs of doing so far. so there's less of a success here. but that brings us to that point you raised, which i think is now that she gives it. we're both symbolic and political point, and that is getting humanitarian aid in to gossip. the argument much of the international community is you have got to get some space between gaza civilians and how much you've got to get civilians away from. the idea that her boss is there only protect her, you have got to give them an alternative. and for that, you need not just a couple 1000 and a few 1000, a trucks go in. you need hundreds and thousands of trucks to be going in and going

and very soon i, so you'll see, i'll come back to the aid in a moment. but on the issue of those being held by him us, we have 2 americans that were released. but actually it's interesting, if you look carefully, the estimated numbers being held have actually gone up. there originally were about a 150 then the estimate, few days ago was was 200. i believe it's now more than 212 now that of course, great the limits, doesn't it be any possibility of a, of a rescue operation given that these people are property all held in different places under heavy god. and some of them probably in a maze of underground tunnels. here we're talking now i'm trying to 20 to some of these. it's a total dollar family member as that. so i have hostage and yeah, these complicates everything so so explain stop to this thing. yeah. those are not all the soldiers that we're not talking here about the business. the phone with the computers being kidnapped, ask civilians from very, very young age babies,

children all the way to 8485 you lot. and it's almost impossible to as a conservative organization to. ready sort of, it's not, it's not realistic to the by not only the says, and they're obviously considering the way how much the, the sauce and the cost that these are committed to expect a lot to use it to human shape would be on the risk of things so the best way forward is actually slow, quite negotiation behind the scenes as a, because all of the show that they are capable of looking some visual at least negotiate and the release of to and we need to see what happens next. but yeah, this is this, the sort of the beginning complicates, i mean, yeah. or for, for military organization, because it's, it's put them on the other immediately a scott, to, as we would say,

blood released judith, natalie random, an american, his writing mother and daughter from illinois. the fact that homos released and when they did how, how, how does that complicate things? do you think for these, right, the government and, and the push towards the ground defensive, and i'm actually adding to that. why do you think i know is pure speculation because we don't know the reasons they did decide to choose to help the americans when there are so many elderly young and then from people among those being held. i think the indications are, as this was a public relations move. uh, it was a public relations move, 1st of all to try to deter, and his rightly ground evasion by holding out the idea that the hostages were there . and if you carry out these piecemeal releases, you keep on pushing the invasion back. in other words, as you also, you just pointed out, you know, these hostages are human shields. let's call it for what it is. secondly, why was it the americans? because of the americans are perceived by many to being the key factor in terms of

their influence on these really leadership. that although there are many others you've been going in to israel in the past 12 days, the germans, are they going out with a lot shots and i don't. i don't like a barrel block. the british have gone. yeah. degrees. prime ministers there today is still the idea that washington is the biggest lever on israel. so you play to american public opinion, the american public opinion, which is felt a great deal of anger over the mass killing of not only is rarely so going. but at least 31 americans, you play the americans with a lot, you know, really good god. if you were willing to release hostages. and by the way, if you had tacos, it'd be a shame that those houses just wound up getting killed and rocks on how much also, i'm a spokesman said that they had the intention of releasing 2 more people and they named to is really citizens apartments and that's on yahoo! whose office said this was mendacious propaganda. but this cool was his big

problems. does it not within his rally israel's leadership as well? well, i think what we're seeing is that how much is playing its cards very carefully. and i, i, you know, agreed that 1st to americans, ventu is rarely is, this is all got an agenda to of, to appeal, to not only public opinion, but also to show that there is total control over these hostages at the moment. and i think the americans were hoping that there would be quite a few palestinian americans that would be left out across the roof of border which is where the a trucks are coming in. and that there might be a somewhat of an exchange there. and that has not happened. so it shows that the release of the hostages still is very much up to how much it feels as it's showing it's not complete control over the situation. and i think it's also showing that the israeli army does not because their intelligence has shifted consistently as to how many of the, how many hostages they are there are,

we don't know if they have any idea of where the hostages are. and i think that's possibly very much affecting their decision to go in because an urban guerrilla man to man and fight in in gaza could really be very risky to know what the lives of hostages that are there. and i think there has been quite a bit of talk about negotiations. would certainly be a better way, would be a better guarantee to keep the hostages alive rather than a ground operation. and that, that certainly would put their lives much greater risk. so i think it's an interesting chess game that we're seeing here. you'll see in terms of those 2 that were released, the american is ready, mother and daughter. we haven't seen them since they've been released. i would assume and tell me if you think i'm right,

is that they are being checked over by doctors, by psychologist. now the important part for these readings and the americans, that being deeper eastern intelligence, they'll probably like about. so it will say, hey, we have to remember that so to civilians that went to the s 4 full full mold in 2 weeks. and yes, so for me to ensure that the well being comes says, i guess you saying those, you know, whether the americans will these or would like to know as much as possible out of there. but again, i, i don't use they, they know too much that, okay, well enough to, to have the intelligence community and down so, well that was it just, you know, the time that took the last 2 weeks with this for, we had say from us and just tell me just to put the us, did you have so many different faces because the weight isn't as a or sensor value waiting right now. so these are the phone says to enter and then

fi to the door to door in the in the elven areas. the time is the phone stops and, and the address of where to live. there is information that 2 hostages released and has a bank that is community. i'm not so sure about it. a score in addition to us citizens, they are all citizens of the u. k. from germany, netherlands pine on argentina, germany from i said, germany twice, sorry. should i, spain and portugal on the list. now these include some of the us and israel, closest allies. how much pressure do you think is coming on the is riley's from these governments. those governments will again be part of again, what is a collective effort, not just simply in the us effort, not just to emphasize that the lives of these hostages are at risk if there's any type of ground operation. but i think to put across the water message, which is like, even if, even if it is right on the ground,

defensive is put off for a week, 2 weeks. another month, quite likely, that is roby trying out the or operations, the sustain bombing. and i think the message there is, again to this really leadership quality, you know, can you really think that you can ball him off out of existence or even contain it? can you, do you think the bombing of flattening cause and killing thousands of palestinians is going to make any advance on releasing the hostages? i mean, i'll just send it to you like this. checks that is that in a sense of loss, knew when they attacked israel, that they would invite is really retaliation. their plan was always going to be to use not only the hostages, because the civilians as hostages, a wire set of hostages. because of that is really a talk. and so now those are, these are being held hostage effectively by him off by these really leadership. and these really can you of the international communities trying to find a way to break stuff, trying to find a way to break the cycle of violence and try to ship the priority to age. rather than talking about a ground offensive or continued aerial operations. including,

you know, the proposal which the us might finally signed onto, and the security council to make a pause in the conflict and humanitarian operations. the number one objective to rocks on. when we sold the 2 americans released, it was just hours later that we saw the very 1st and they went very many. they were only 20 initially. trucks of humanitarian aid, cross into garza to think that was a coincidence. so part of the deal? well, i would imagine it was probably part of the deal. so the low level of a trucks that have been allowed. and since i think our hedge it, you know, hinges on the, on the, the, a negotiations to release those next to set of hostages on this. we've got to remember is massively lower than the amount of a that was coming in even prior to the whole of comply ration that began on

october 7th, there were hundreds of of a trucks that normally would come into casa, and so it is really suffering without these so both sides are, are holding those ropes in the negotiation. and so i think they are linked and i think that there is also some degree of i, i would agree with you also. yeah, i don't think there's a great deal of information that the hostages are going to be able to to provide um, simply because i would also imagine that those hostages that are being released are probably ones that are quite close to the point place where they're being exchanged so i think they're being kept probably specifically out of any kind of a massive movement or, or, or, or loop of how much activities. you'll see

a great deal of pressure on israel to let in more aid. but one specific item which is not being allowed in until now, which is fuel and of course, fuel is needed for all sorts of things for water, sanitation, water, pumping, dissemination, unreal, which is the un agency that deals with the policy and says it's going to exhaust is fuel reserves in the next $2.00 to $3.00 days? hospitals rely on generates has one very disturbing report from unicef, suggests, or about a $120.00 babies in incubators who would die if, if, if there was not fuel to pilot those things. you betas, do you think is route, will that fuel in or not? because it's described as a fuel use item as it was a little bit as though many, many other commodities, though the finders doing a use of dyslexia, the talking about the lifeless, maybe surveillance that 2200000 people living in. it was highly of folks who like

to the place and society to saw. ready and down the line for full water and increasing the turnouts expense on the side. ready and entering is we just, they started out $20.00 along make a huge difference and these other, so there every day for you, my internet. and it will. so he is actually just on the drop off of collapse not being able to supply the basic services. there because of caught, so a may when you had such a, such a guy since the middle will slow, there is maybe even more 8 any spaces. so the and the sides of you can see the display is it's a trace and south of the nation, including that's pretty much it with this, or for many, i think what he's doing is that i to, to fight against from us. and again, still isn't, it doesn't cause that light is the same thing. to despise, implies a innocent civilians from,

from the very basic lies eventually. and we already see mold in 4000. they are going to see me as a cheer. so this must be a way in which and it doesn't have, it doesn't mean that's also some of the issue might be too late, but most find the way to reach doug. you may need to probably go this way. so i mean, and also the next 30 years is provided and see what is provided in a 2 hosted cousin to school or not another basis. yes, you know how much there's no going to to fighting according to the geneva convention, but these are the democracy is present then by the end suggested democracy should conduct the now the other question i want to ask you is, but where into the national diplomacy is going because you'll be aware that at the end of last week, the us ambassador in the united nations put a hand up the veto to resolution that would allow humanitarian pauses to put into effect. a drunk deliberate as a the us seem to be changing that position. they put forward another draft

resolution, which i was told. and something i saw from the u. a which is also on the security council that they put a submission saying that 2nd, that the, that draw from the us with severely on balance will this, i've obtained is the new us draft resolution. and for the 1st time they mention exploring additional practical steps such as humanitarian pauses and the establishment of humanitarian car doors, rocks on israel's not gonna like that. is it? well it's, it's interesting because i think the, the accompanying story to this is the advice and had been working on yahoo for some time to convince him that the, the, you know, larger picture has to be the right to for israel to defend itself. but the, but the secondary picture has to be that it be according to international law and to conform to protecting civilians and, and the gods and people,

palestinians. and so i think i'm not totally surprised that it's taking this on this 1st step where the us was extremely tough and rough and saying that the, you know, that there was going to be absolutely no cease fires. and that it was the towing, these un resolutions, but now as it has, has obviously convinced israel that, that, that a different step is important to take. i think the situation we have to recognize was very fluid. and the longer the time goes and the longer that this incubator, it's clear that humanitarians for support is absolutely critical to this and is critical to the image the israel will have coming out of the story. and if it is not able to allow this kind of a humanitarian help, it will be increasingly isolated as it comes out of this with none of the work that had done trying to,

to show up any kind of relationships with its neighbors that will allow you just let me just tell you that briefly when coming to the end of the program, i just went off each of you very quick to what on sir? yes or no. i'm. is that going to be a ground evaluation? is the pressure on this? well, going to work, you'll see to some extent the expect swamped detectors. scott of israel will divide this into 2 parts. they'll be a ground invasion to establish more of a buffer zone in the gaza strip. whereas with the southern gauze and strip, the emphasis will be that civilians can go there and some humanitarian who can give them some support roxan quickly. yes or no. i think there will be, i don't think i can back out at this point. have to end that rock so i'm starting to to old i guess you'll see macro bug, scott lucas, and rocks on the farm on for my on. if you missed any part about discussion, you can always watch it again. any time on out to 0, don't call me if you have your own views about anything that was said post

a comment on all facebook page. that's facebook dot com forward slash ha, inside story on x, the one that used to be cool. twitter with apps a j inside story, comprehensive coverage of the god. so we'll continues on that which is around the clock. and i'll be back in this chat very soon from all the teams. stay safe for now. i mean the world slow down. we stand for as homes with kids of global nichols reserves. indonesia is points to leave the global, the battery industry. we definitely manage our abundant resources and play a role in solar energy harness the offerings, 75 percent of global carbon credits, essential, committed to imply mental protection, enhancing investment climate. digital licensing, your better tomorrow. the latest news as a wait,

a garza and the northern gauze district to the south, to the board, mid in the south have still been ongoing with detail coverage on simply being fired from gauze up and intercepted by the iron don't from around the world. the palestinians use the street has been at least 2 or in 5432 more upfront takes on the big issue. this isn't a one off you. something about a systemic issue here. black lives don't really matter. in the police were unflinching questions is war with one to 10 minute rigorous debate? people are dying because of lots of medical treatments, challenging conventional was the fact that people are starting to get angry about this is in itself a sign of progress. join me more for me on hills upfront one out 0. assessing the discussions, examining the headline explorer and abundance of wells class programming design to

inform, motivates, and insight. on l g 0 the, [000:00:00;00] the for the clock this is in use on life and the whole coming up in the next 60 minutes . the wing from us the cassandra gates for lease is a 2 elderly concepts on humanitarian grounds, following mediation by customer and by egypt. summer guides loans, weaponized drones, targets of it science deep inside is ready tertiary,

for the 1st time. the israel's relentless