sounds that's one of those palestinians everywhere they go. hi, i'm eunice senior. i'm still in gaza city was by sign the lease yesterday regarding lots of were new calls and a lot of the flex like these the trade trucks on us in our neighborhood, in our street here. and uh, they basically said that uh, being in guys that were remaining, you guys, a city uh, put our lives xavier's taking a touring. and the streets of those are just very close to by street here in my neighborhood. and everything looks so and she could barely see people in the streets. this area used to be a very densely populated area. i believe this is your house, just opposite to the board meant that we can see in and i 1st of course talk to the

police officer in the law. why did you decide to come back after you went south ever been? is a little to the site to go know house doesn't matter what it is for now, is this the bakery the online to actually be able to vice bread. this has been sadly, have been is this place it's just full of trouble free. i can literally

just tear the key just here to piece really worth the everyone says well that's it for me and associates hayes and always find one on websites out of there. a don't come about some lines the imprisoned without trying to. i'll just say, richard,

unless remain behind bars in egypt. ha! would didn't it brushing detained since february 2020. the drop you a shift detained since august 2021. i'll just say recalls for the immediate release of its gentlest, detained in egypt. journalism is not a crime a hi, i'm steve clements, i have a question in the region and across the world. what are the repre cushions of for mazda is attack and israel's war on gaza? let's get to the bottom line. the, well, if anybody thought that the palace spinning is really issue, could be contained or kept quiet forever. the events of the past few weeks have shattered that notion. after the mazda attack of october, 7th, they killed more than a 1000, is released mostly civilians. israel launched

a massive bombing campaign across the gaza strip, killing thousands of palestinian civilians, mostly women and children, and displaced half the population. israel has also cut off food, water, and electricity, and us president joe biden spent 7 hours in his real expressing his support. but also asking is really not to be blinded by rage. when he got back to washington, he made his case to the american people for billions of dollars in new spending on his real, bundled with ukraine a. so what's next for the people in the middle east? and despite his over whelming military power, how much leverage does the united states actually have? today we're talking with daniel levy who was a long time negotiator and advisor for the as really government during the aso peace talks. and he's now president of the us middle east project. daniel, thanks so much for joining us. let me ask you, how should israel respond in a way that you think would be fair? and just i'm afraid i talk to justice to that question without

acknowledging that we should never have been in this place. we should never have been in a situation where the cost of which you cannot leave the palestinian situation to test your kind of half palestinians to day after day. we talked to europe the decade off the deck. you do not have to have basic watch leaving it in a regime in which that freedom is a do not that comma that the dispossessed it, as there's a good reason that it has students, human rights groups, these re issue and watch groups. and then obviously international cuban lights, which made it designation. the crime of the project was being committed by his right against the past. now none of that just involves, well how, but those of us who will play waste american administration,

we dollars to get to the root cause is how can you have also be besieged? of course, now the nature of the blockade is, is even more up to 1617 years, cause it has been onto the permanent system of an envelope of control by age where israel measured exactly what the code is going to go out. there was a fruit, freedom of information, requests for all these race which revealed the, these right, the policy was to keep going to just about salvation. now that is gonna blow up it's blowing up now. and the question is, do we still stay stuck in eclipse? where is roka leads the only a military response that only by black shooting the policy new people into submission will they will, they will, will they accept more occupation or we're going to deal with policies. now i know

that that call the politics call the the only conversation and is. 1 is justified owes its own people that security. i think he's got about it in the most serious way or israel notes because they were being ongoing interactions between this route and how most, most people have so many and these ready security establishment set, set cost and we need a political arise. we could bring a box into that we could offer an alternative to homos, which is kind of plastic count reset to try and pull the population away. but you can't just say, okay, we've created a military modus vivendi, and now we stop. we keep the policy and all sorts in the west bank week. we keep how much, just at this level. so that needs to be a political concept to go with whatever military concept there is. either that involve saying how much will have to be part of this?

that's clearly not where the narrative is now, because a mazda is being called you nazi's was the nicest and we can come back to that were asked to be a different political comes you and i have been talking about israel, palestine for decades, and this large, the got shoved under the rug as the abraham accords were coming along. people began ignoring it and it exploded. and i'm just interested in what, from a underground tectonic perspective, do you think is realistic in the future of getting rid of this pressure and resolving this in any credible way. you have to understand a few things. first of all, that was an attempt, the nose in perfect, wasn't gonna deliver toko justice. it came with a particular moment where on the palestinian side, that's been a support for actually a deal. but many palestinians will continue to reason the great deal. just 22

percent of the story was fine as a potential future state without addressing the refugee displacement on the pillow . come on board with that position to establish relations with america in the late eighty's. so 2 years ago in 93, that gets put into the also these route to go through the 1st intifada. logic on um, civil uprising, the extracted costs for ms. ro, international dynamics for shipping. and these are also, you know, maybe we actually have to do something about this. how is the new question? we'll talk about it 1st. this is over studies. we're in a uni, pulled up american bottom. it's off to the code. and the basic deal is a palestinian pati, committed to negotiations committed to a peaceful resistance of this question. and america's role was to guarantee that the stock delivered and given the power a symmetry occupied states occupied people. the primary american vote was to make

sure. ready is ro would actually look back the occupation and allow for that to get our students that now that we go through the various durations of how does one manage the outcome of america not playing a role designated for it? not to quite. we got more and more into fantastic. fantastic. i'm thinking that if you just addressed economic piece, which also never succeeded, but this was the american playbook for many, many years. if you built relations between israel and it's naples, which one which is not the more, this was the trunk in approach. then you could leap over the palestinian question and divide it ministration. stuck with anatomy. b. o lives of nonsense to this approach and they believe several lots. and they last,

i contacted what was really going on. the listing is the as america wanted to drill down into the nice thing that they did intend to do, that they will do to drill down while still maintaining this, this notion that you call deal in a comprehensive fashion in an architecture that would include era. so you kind of had to move towards that under obama, with the just po, a trunk pulls out of that. and if there was it shocks for the, by the ministration to get back in. they decide that it is perhaps true politic, costly, politically difficult. and they didn't go for it. and so what you have is a us does not try to achieve a comprehensive de escalation. and you actually have regional actors increasingly

moving down all these roles. not being part of it. because these riley rom equation has been deemed impossible to improve with america and targeting it up that, that up. and the usual palestine equations is rolled out and what to do is run what's to continue dropped by make it was israel has impunity fast to america to do what it wants. and so you've had saudi and it wrong with chinese mediation, improve relations, but you still have us that he's trying to drive the path of escalation. i mentioned the 6 because if we look at where we go from here, we have to correct. i think the 3 who should say is no one is the israel should be indulge any coverage down the pulse

of deny policy, the rights of violating international robins and down a pop up result. be the disposition of palestinians by quoting them. that rights. and i think that's, that's not a huge to substitute. secondly, we have to address the fact the palestinian politics because go down this path where the polity committed to also has to be totally discredited. somebody types of mistakes. the posting impulse has been divided. we could have seen america to capacity palestinian elections. i don't know if we can do that now, but you have to address the fact that the recognized policy and address does not have legitimacy with its people. because it has been co opted into the american is riley occupation, superstructure and we have to address the statute coming,

which is you need a region wide approach which actually tries to get older relevant policies. you know, the french president has hosted meetings about a lot, but in both the radians the goal, the fees for the rocks and media china was hosted these folks. as i've said, america must not be bull montgomery. and it's policy defacto leading that direction . and on the mind, the prospects for the region piece. what do you think the chances are of slipping into a world war 3? i think we see a real shots. but the worst things get on the palestinian from the closer we get to a concert conflagration. and or the other question to austin. i know say this is the case, but i think it should be in the mix. is whether these race, like look at this and say, is this the opportunity to actually try and address not just how much, but has blogger and all the things? because we know there's no framework to try and achieve long term understandings.

we've, these actors, there's just the stance. there's no frame american race, here we go out, people, lots of unified behind us. the west is backing. america was positioned military assets directly in relation to this escalation. they will have to be drafted because the narratives and the american politics is playing out in that way all europeans blanket drafted. so each row may be tempted to go for that model has although many of the military will say that unsafe the why in the hands of doing so well recently bought that temptation i think exists. and that's remember raul as all the assets in the region, whether that's any rock we're seeing so much and in that from whether that's the on . so i love to see movement in the control that much of. yeah. and whether that sincerely up close in lab, and then as the region is boy. so you're going to have public support truck or to configuration and robins and step back from that. and i think the american private

messaging is to step back from the knowledge. the slick, if you don't get the power steering from time to control the dollars around the control and stuff, that's really images. then you really risk this border escalation. i think the bike and visit it did speak to performative american domestic politics. but i think you spoke to the concerns that they have bots. i don't think he made any progress because yeah, that's the blonde. see. the american president goes all the way to his route and comes back on the scene. they can tell these 20 trucks, 20 trucks a few minutes every night, which as of us speaking still hasn't been allowed him to you. and secretary, j 6, our general and the us, you about a terry officer. so you need 450 trucks right day, not 20 trucks. the 20 no worries. a few minutes every night. that should be what a junior desktop is. he said to the region to get maybe a deputy assistant secretary of state on

a bad day. the president of the united states, and i think the world looks at this is wow, these guys can't control their allies. power of these guys palpably wilting in front of all. very nice. in the past, we saw that there was enormous jewish american support for what is real dead. it was very hard to touch that. but really i've seen more divides in israel and among the jewish american community since early january. since the debates inside is real about it, supreme court about the solvency of its own democracy, you've seen more divides. it least i've seen that inside the american debate about israel in its future in what democracy means and should look like and include, now you look at this horrible attack and the response to hum us. and we see a kind of eruption on college campuses in america. we also see a $300.00 jewish americans arrested on the steps of the us capital. basically

saying our blood is the same and they don't support the actions is realistically inside doesn't. it is drawn thing up, i'm interested in your perspective on that and whether something has changed in the terrain. and the topography of classic support. and i should note that if you look at the merits support and you pay american support today, over whelming public support of israel, 65 percent of americans support israel. absolutely. 8 percent say you should publicly criticize what israel is doing. 23 percent. say do nothing. so in that mixture i just want to be clear that americans are very much supportive of the steps it is real as taking now. but there are these pockets that surprise me. of people looking a little bit differently at the terrain as well. i think there's, there's a few things to be said to see, and i think it would be staggering if that only did not show

what you shared with us because of the really less media narrative. and the way that this is being described as that was that the nazis, this is the 2nd holocaust that worse than die space is online and level. this is dan 911. i'm now i, i, i actually think that's a weird way to describe it because he's riley, is that a military regional superpower to describe this as a holocaust? i think what is on holocaust revisionism actually a box. that's how it's playing out in that media landscape. and this little public opinion is, is where it is. now, if you remember, there was massive support for the war in afghanistan. so the war in iraq and that it rotate and that they rotate and people soul without leaving united states. now

it also had you been polling a few weeks ago in a different reality and then a different media last day. i see what i saw was the american public shifting, very beset in a different direction. questioning america as well in this, the questioning is ro street that was to use and that was especially true, all democrat voters. and that was also true of the american jewish. and you know, the american jewish community is how it may be. this is, this is how it's hunting and several levels of just what happened is verandas, the just as democratic was who with the, with the victims in the 1400. these where you casualties and in those being taken prisoner, you know, this is, i mean it doesn't matter who they are, but this just happens to be a lot of folks from people to folks who go out to

a raise on the sabbott. so it's not the religious group, so to those who the more reformed secular kind of liberal america would in the, in or out to suckles. no, no people spinning back is a community. how do you have a palestinian hired, the american muslim american community? we're seeing the indifference to palestinian life. seeing what is happening, dawson doesn't, doesn't justify what went on on october 7th. i think the president managed to talk and then once human tubs about our about a senior and americans, he still failed to talk a warm human times about the power stevens on the ground with dying. and so that's the landscape in america. but as you say, it comes against the backdrop of for months, american jews. the vast majority looking at is looking at a government without the racist people who want what right now have

the weapons to his right. the civilians to go and do that was who were carrying out . and this was the language being used in his route in the west port robins against college students. and they will i end up senior ministers who have plans for the mass expulsion palestinians. this is now all of these writing out that that needs to be a 2nd mass ethnic cleansing a 2nd. and they will say, wow, what's going on? what's going wrong? now i understand it immediately after october, sir, but i think a lot of americans, you just look at the deep malays, this it to speak of the benjamin nothing. yahoo is really disliked nothing. and they wonder what becomes of his route. and the other piece of this is these rails, each has a strong country, is taking a tremendous fit. and a later you can re establish that just by just by seeing more, how does the blog,

i actually see what you have to demonstrate today is that israel could be a small, strategically full understanding of the environment to see. because if we really look at israel in that region and say these guys are never going to accept this, we could never live then use this for collective jewish security. now i mean the future i'm, i think what it would be great to have is a responsible adult is israel's closest ally who can speak at least in private and get just far enough public to that conversation. and that conspicuous be failed to do so because if he's been you nazis less than isis, then you're on an extermination as tall and then you're on the road. let me ask you,

finally, danley, daniel and, and very quickly is baby netanyahu strengthened her weekend by this moment. and when you look over time, you know who, who's, who's got time on their side in this conflict. nothing. yahoo will have to have somebody face the music on how this happens and i think that happens the morning off to the dust settles and i don't think he wants to get to that date, which i think makes him a very, very dangerous leader. and he has no idea of the keys. you can be such a, you define car to offer everything that's happened. so i don't think time is on his side. what time might be on, on his side, scarily. and i think i'm worried up to the palestinians. that could be an asset here at a mass displacement. and so i worry how much time is on the side. even though i think there is a tendency dean. so in court is that the very on top i was

a worry with the time is on america. side, let me close with that. so because i think the look, you know, america and the president's wrapped himself in the industry, civilization well meets us and, you know, go usefully. the rest of the world doesn't see it that way. and i think america has done tremendous stuff to his reputation because people are looking at the ukraine christ and say, we go to clock, you apply these things selectively. and now america is going out and prove it. that way, these rel violates international. no, it's okay. which they were doing on october 6th of all that happens. and now they're doing engaged with american v coast a resolution which is quite a small resolution secured and kept. ringback negotiated also with the americans go forward by brazil. the rest of the world of the russian britain, which state is becky. america looks like an outline, not like a multi to be emulated, but like

a country that is fundamental. getting his priorities wrong and doesn't cat when there is a right effect across much of the rest of the well, we all see in america the looks like a woman queen nation. and i worry to that i worry for that reputation. well, with that we will end this very sombre discussion here, daniel levy, president of the us middle east project and former adviser to be is really government. thank you so much for joining us today. thank she stays. so what's the bottom line is really, is were hit in such a way that they thought impossible. and this fuels or outrage, whether they're progressive, conservative, far right. zealots, wherever they are, they say they want, the perpetrators wiped out. but it's not going to be an easy or neat process. an innocent palestinians are going to die by the hundreds every day. this could escalate and i mean, dramatically escalate and in the west. it's hard to imagine that cooler heads are going to prevail. my guest today daniel levy has always told me that the palestine

is real device is never going to simmer down and just go away on its own. it will always come back screaming back unless it's result. the events of this month really prove his point. the conflicts, the dormant and low level for years and years, but now it's back big time with or without the how mazda attacks of october 7th, it's hard to be optimistic that it's going to be resolved anytime soon. and that sadly is the bottom line. the i've worked out as a regular since it's launch, as a principal presenter, as, as a correspondence with any breaking the story we want to hear from those people who would normally not get that forces on the international news channels. one moment i'll be very proud all was when we covered the fullness quick of 2015 at the

terrible natural this, that's the story that needed to be told from the hall of the affected area to be then to tell the people story. it was very important at the time from intimate moments to major essential changes from man's impact on the planet to the impact of mine on himself that he has with depression. and it's really asked to give yourself up the witness award winning films from around an hour, which is the era pumping k o in the last drops to save you oxy crucial rivers. the small amount of water from there is a bar, and above provenance, he's going into the free to use the reverse live. it has been declining drastically large because of dams in neighboring to key. iraq has also experience with the use

of trial within our president of water shortages with experts watery this walter with high living. some salt could pose a threat to humans and the vitamins in fact is dangerous. but the only for humans, but also for animals and plants as well. now it's live is have significant p declined to only about 6000000000 cubic meters. there is, a lot of managers are hopeful, the coming great new season will fill up the reserves and replace what they lost, but for they used to come to lack of water here in the crowd. you know, civilization could mean the end of communities that have lived by the reverse for thousands of years. the

challenge is the, [000:00:00;00] the hello i'm 0 venue. this is the news. our lives from bill coming up in the program today is really there a strikes on the guns. a strip killed more than $700.00 pallets pinions in just 24 hours. one of those 0 strikes was near a hospital where dozens of patients or in coma one of the is really captives