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tv   Counting the Cost  Al Jazeera  October 25, 2023 4:30am-5:01am AST

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different points are the russians continue in good times to try to surround the city of div cut, just outside russian controlled, done yet. but we're also getting reports of bull fighting at places like back moved in to parents where battle has raged. now for many months, according to the ukrainians, the russians once again, seeming to have adopted this attack, dick of sending in waves of infantry accepting it seems very high casualties in return for very little being gained in terms of territory. as these push continues, president volume is a landscape of ukraine has met with his military commanders to discuss the situation across the country. also with getting reports with the increased fighting in the south around kennesaw. and i know that has now being given for the evacuation of 800 children from frontline, several months that rob mcbride, i'll just say era keith and united nations investigation has concluded israel
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violated the rights to life of l. g 0 general assuring a go after she was killed last, the bias riley security forces while reporting on rides in the occupied west bank. she had pretends he has more on the findings presented to the you in general assembly. so this is just the latest investigation to conclude that is riley forces are responsible for the killing of al jazeera drum. listerine ok, despite is ready to governments. insistence of no conclusion is possible. we conclude on the evidence we found and on reasonable grounds that these of ab security forces used the so false without justification on the international human rights law. and intentionally or recklessly violated. shooting actually is right to life view and independent international commission of inquiry on the occupied palestinian territory presented its investigation and distributions coming to the un general assembly. as part of its regular report on these radio patients.
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the inquiry presents a detailed timeline of the events surrounding shooting steps from her arrival of the janine refugee camp to cover and is really operation to these very strongly opening fire without warning on her and others clearly mount as john lives. and then shops continuing to be filed as reference, are made to move her life. and as of all the, from the scene, the enquiries conclusions are clear. the area was come before she was showed that when the palestinians in the area, there was no exchange of gunfire for any warning from his rarely security forces. natalie is right. these angels of bodies of those they were shooting shepherd, hands, the elders era, the united nations. thanks for watching elgin 0. i'm emily anglin. you can get more news on our website, which is 0. come up. next is the bottom line to stay with us. what happens in new york has implications all around the world to make these stories resonate
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requires talking to everyday people from mayor of the city and now suddenly doing away with the 1st you want us to get everybody off the street. it's international perspective with the human touch zooming way in, and then pulling back out again a hi, i'm steve clements, i have a question in the region and across the world. what are the repre cushions of for mazda is attack and israel's war on gaza? let's get to the bottom line. the well, if anybody thought that the power spinning is really issue could be contained or kept quiet forever. the events of the past few weeks have shattered that notion. after the hamas attack of october 7th, they killed more than a 1000 is released mostly civilians. israel launched a massive bombing campaign across the gaza strip, killing thousands of palestinian civilians, mostly women and children, and displaced half the population. israel has also cut off food, water,
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and electricity, and us precedent. joe biden spent 7 hours in his real expressing his support, but also asking is really not to be blinded by rage. when he got back to washington, he made his case to the american people for billions of dollars in new spending on his real, bundled with ukraine a. so what's next for the people in the middle east? and despite his over whelming military power, how much leverage does the united states actually have? today we're talking with daniel levy who was a long time negotiator and advisor for the as really government during the aso peace talks. and he's now president of the us middle east project. daniel, thanks so much for joining us. let me ask you, how should is real, respond in a way that you think would be fair and just, i'm afraid. i talked to justice to that question without the knowledge that we should never have been in this place. we should never have been in a situation where the cost of which you cannot leave the
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palestinian situation to test your kind of half palestinians to day after day. we talked with your decade off the deck, you do not have to have basic watch leaving it in a regime in which that freedom is a do not that comment that the dispossessed, that there's been a good reason that it has students, human rights groups. these re, these, you watch groups and then obviously international human lights which made it designation. the crime of the project was being committed by his right against the past. now, none of that just as well. but those of us who will play waste american administration, we dollars to get to the root cause is how can you have also be besieged? of course, now the nature of the blockade is, is even more up to 1617 years. garza has been onto this permanent
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system off to an envelope of control by age where israel measured exactly what co to go in and go out. there was a flute, freedom of information, requests for all these rays, which revealed that these ready policy was to kick off a chest, about salvation. now that is going to blow up it's blowing up now. and the question is, do we still stay stuck in eclipse? where is roka leads the only a military response that only by black shooting, the palestinian people is into submission. will they will they will, will they accept more occupation or we're going to deal with politics. now i know that that call the politics call the, the only conversation on israel is justified owes its own people. vast security. i think he's gone about it in the most serious way.
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israel notes because they are being ongoing interactions between his route and how most, most people have so many and these ready security establishment set, set cost, and we need to political arise. we could bring home boxing to that. we could offer an alternative to homos, which is kind of plastic count reset to try and pull the population away. but you can't just say, okay, we've created a military modus vivendi, and now we stop. we keep the policy and all sorts in the west bank week. we keep how much, just at this level. so that needs to be a political concept to go with whatever military concept there is. either that involve saying how much will have to be part of this? that's clearly not where the narrative is now because how much is being called you? nazis was the nicest and we can come back to that has to be a different political comes. you and i have been talking about israel,
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palestine for decades, and this large, the got shoved under the rug as the abraham accords were coming along. people began ignoring it and it exploded. and i'm just interested in what, from a underground tectonic perspective, do you think is realistic in the future of getting rid of this pressure and resolving this in any credible way. you have to understand a few things. first of all, there was an attempt, the nose in pa fedex wasn't gonna deliver total justice. it came with a particular moments where on the palestinian side, there being a support for actually a deal to. but many palestinians will continue to reason the great deal just 22 percent of the story was fine as a potential future state without addressing a refugee displacement on the pillow. come on board with that position to establish relations with america in the late eighty's 30 years ago in 93. that gets put into
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the also these route to go through the 1st intifada. logic on um civil uprising, the extracted costs for ms. ro, international dynamics for shipping. and these are also, you know, maybe we actually have to do something about this. how is the new question? we talked about it 1st. this is other studies were in a uni, pulled up american bottom. it's off to the code. and the basic deal is palestinian pati, committed to negotiations, committed to a peaceful resistance of this question. and america's role was to guarantee that the stock delivered, given the power asymmetry, occupied states, occupies people. the primary american vote was to make sure each row would actually look back the occupation and allow for that to get our students. now that we go through the various durations all,
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how does one manage the outcome of america not playing a role designated for it? not to quite each, we go more and more into fantastic. fantastic. i'm thinking that if you just addressed economic piece, which also never succeeded, but this was the american play book for many, many years. if you built relations between israel and its neighbors, which one which is not the more, this was the trunk in approach, then you could leap over the past the question and divide it ministration stuck with anatomy. the total lives of nonsense to this approach. and they believe their own lives, and they last, i contacted what was really going all the listing is the as america wanted to drill down into the nice thing that they did intend to do
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that they won't do to drill down while still maintaining this, this notion that you call the deal in a comprehensive fashion in an architecture that would include era. so you kind of had to move towards that under obama, with the chase po, way trunk pulls out of that. and if there was a shop, so the binding administration to get back in, they decide that it is perhaps to politic, costly, politically difficult, and they didn't go for it. and so what you have is a us does not try to achieve a comprehensive di escalation, and you actually have regional access increasingly moving down, not all, but he's really not being part of it. because these riley rom equation has been deemed impossible to improve with america and targeting it up that,
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that up. and the usual palestine equation is rolled out. and what to do is run what's to continue dropped by make it was his route has impunity fast to america to do what it wants. and so you've had saudi and it wrong with chinese mediation, improve their relations, but you still have the us that he's trying to drive the path of escalation. i mention these things because if we look at where we go from here, we have to correct. i think the 3 who should say is no one is the israel should be indulge any coverage down the pulse of deny policy. the rights violate the international robins and down to pop up result be the disposition of palestinians by quoting them. that
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rights i think that's, that's not a huge dis substitute. secondly, we have to address the fact the palestinian politics does go down this path where the party that committed to also has to be totally discredited. somebody types of mistakes. the posting impulse has been divided. we could have seen america to compile some power steering elections. i don't know if we can do that now, but you have to address the fact that the recognized policy and address does not have legitimacy with its people. because it has been co opted into the american is riley occupation, superstructure and we have to address the statute coming, which is you need a region wide approach, which actually tries to get older relevant policies. you know, the french president is hosted meetings about iraq, but in both the radio, the gold space or the rocks and media,
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china was hosted these torps as opposite. america must not be bull montgomery. and it's policy defacto leading that direction and on the mind, the prospects for the region piece. what do you think the chances are of slipping into a world war 3? i think we see a real shots. but the worst things get on the palestinian from close. we get to a concert conflagration. and or the other question to austin, i'm not say, this is the case, but i think it should be in the mix. is whether these race, like look at this and say, is this the opportunity to actually try and address not just how much, but has blogger and all the things. because we know there's no framework to try and achieve loan. some of the standards we've, these actors, there's just the standard. there's no frame americans here we go out, people, lots of unified behind us. the west is backing. america was positioned military
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assets directly in relation to this escalation. they will have to be drafted because the narratives and the american politics is playing out in that way. all europeans blanket attracted. so each row may be tempted to go for that model has although many of the military will say that unsafe the why in the hands of doing so well recently bought that temptation i think exists. and that's remember raul as all the assets in the region, whether that's any rock we're seeing so much and in that from whether that's the on . so let me see movement in the control that much of yeah, man. whether that sincerely up close in lab and then as the region is boy. so you're going to have public support truck or to configuration and robins and step backs with that. and i think the american private messaging is to step back from the knowledge. the slick, if you don't get the power steering from time to control the dollars around the control and stuff, that's really images venue, really risk this border escalation,
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i think the bike and visit it did speak to performative american domestic politics . but i think you spoke to the concerns that they have bots. i don't think he made any progress because yeah, that's the blonde. see. the american president goes all the way to his route and comes back on the scene. they can talk to these 20 trucks, 20 trucks, a few minutes every night, which as of us speaking still hasn't been allowed him to you in secretary, did you say are general and that you into about a terry officer. so you need 450 trucks right day. not 20 truck seats. 20 no worries. a few minutes every night. that should be what a junior desktop is. he said to the region to get maybe the assistant secretary of state on a bad day. the president of the united states, and i think the world looks at this is wow, these guys can't control their allies. power of these guys palpably wilting in front of all. very nice. in the past,
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we saw that there was enormous jewish american support for what is real data. it was very hard to touch that. but really i've seen more divides in israel and among the jewish american community since early january. since the debates and side is real about it, supreme court about the solvency of its own democracy, you've seen more divides. it least i've seen that inside the american debate about israel in its future in what democracy means and should look like and include, now you look at this horrible attack and the response to hum us. and we see a kind of eruption on college campuses in america. we also see a $300.00 jewish americans arrested on the steps of the us capital. basically saying our blood is the same and they don't support the actions is realistically inside doesn't. it is drawn thing up, i'm interested in your perspective on that and whether something has changed in the
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terrain. and the topography of classic support. and i should note that if you look at the merits support and you pay american support today, over whelming public support of israel, 65 percent of americans support israel. absolutely. 8 percent say you should publicly criticize what israel is doing. 23 percent. say do nothing. so in that mixture i just want to be clear that americans are very much supportive of the steps it is real as taking now. but there are these pockets that surprise me. of people looking a little bit differently at the terrain as well. i think there's, there's a few things to be said to see, and i think it would be staggering if that only did not show what you shared with us because of the really less media narrative. and the way that this is being described as that was that the nazis, this is the 2nd holocaust that worse than die space is online and level. this is
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dan 911. i'm now i, i, i actually think that's a weird way to describe it. because israel is that a military regional superpower to describe this as a holocaust, i think what is on holocaust revisionism actually a box. that's how it's playing out in, in that media landscape. and therefore, public opinion is, is where it is. now, if you remember, there was massive support for the war in afghanistan. so the war in iraq, and now they rotate and that it rotates and people sol without leaving united states. now it also had you have been calling a few weeks ago in a different reality and, and the different media. last a, i see what i saw was the american public shifting, very beset in
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a different direct questioning america as well. and this, the questioning is ro street that i was to use, and that was especially true, all democrat voters. and that was also true of the american jewish. now the american jewish community is how it may be. this is, this is how exciting and several levels of just what happened is renders the a, just a democratic who with the, with the victims in the 1400, these where you casualties and in those being taken prisoner. you know, this is, i mean it doesn't matter who they are, but this just happens to be a lot of folks from people to folks who go out to a raise on the sabbott. so it's not the religious group. so to those who the more reformed secular kind of liberal america would in the, in or out to suckles. no, no people spinning back is a community how you have a palestinian hired,
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the american muslim american community. we're seeing the indifference to palestinian life. seeing what is happening, daughter doesn't, doesn't justify what went on on october 7th. i think the president managed to talk and then once human tubs about our about a senior and americans, he still failed to talk a warm human times about the power stevens on the ground with dying. and so that's the landscape in america. but as you say, it comes against the backdrop of for months, american jews. the vast majority looking at is looking at a government without books, racist people who want to what right now haven't got weapons to his race, civilians, to go and do that was who were carrying out. and this was the language being used in his route in the west port rome's against college students. and they will end
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up senior ministers who have plans for the mastic social palestinians. this is now all of these writing out that there needs to be a 2nd mass ethnic cleansing a 2nd. and then they will say, wow, what's going on, what's going wrong? now i understand that as a media after october, so, but i think a lot of americans, you look at the deep malays this it to speak of the benjamin nothing. yahoo is really disliked nothing. and they wonder what becomes of his route. and the other piece of this is these rails, each has a strong country, is taking a tremendous fit. and a later you can re establish that just by just by seeing more, how does the blog i actually see what you have to demonstrate today is that israel can be a small, strategically full understanding of the environment to see.
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because if we really look at israel in that region and say these guys have never got a, we could never live then use this for collective jewish security now and in the future i'm, i think what it would be great to have is a responsible adult is israel's closest ally who can speak at least in private and get just far enough public to that conversation, american speak use the felt to do so because if he's been new nazis less than isis, then you're on an extermination is tall and then you're on the road let me ask you, finally, danley, daniel and, and very quickly, is baby netanyahu strengthened or weakened by this moment. and when you look over time, you know who, who's, who's got time on their side in this conflict. nothing. yahoo
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will have to have somebody face the music on how this happens and i think that happens the morning off to the dust settles and i don't think he wants to get to that date, which i think makes him a very, very dangerous leader. and he has no idea of the keys. you can be thought to you to find car, to offer everything the top. so i don't, i don't have time. he's on his side. what time might be on, on the side, scarily. and i think i'm worried up to the palestinians, that could be an asset here at a mass displacement. and so i worry how much time is on the side. even though i think there is a tendency dean. so in court is that the very on top i was a worry with a time is on america side and that be closed with that. so because i think the look, you know, america and the president's wrapped himself in the industry, civilization well meets us. i'm not going to use for the rest of the world. doesn't
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see it that way. and i think america has done tremendous stuff to his reputation because people are looking at the ukraine christ and say we go to clock, you apply these things selectively. and now america is going out and prove it that way. these rel violates international. no, it's okay, which they were doing on october 6th of all that happens. and now they're doing engaged with american v coast a resolution, which is quite a small resolution secured and kept. ringback negotiated also with the americans put forward by brazil, the rest of the world of the russian britain, which state is becky. america looks like an outline, not like a multi to be emulated, but like a country that is fundamental. getting his priorities wrong and doesn't cat when there is a right effect across much of the rest of the well, we all see in america the looks like a woman queen nation. and i worry to that i worry for that reputation. well,
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with that we will end this very sombre discussion here, daniel levy, president of the us middle east project and former adviser to be is really government. thank you so much for joining us today. thank she stays. so what's the bottom line is really, is were hit in such a way that they thought impossible. and this fuels or outrage, whether they're progressive, conservative, far right. zealots, wherever they are, they say they want, the perpetrators wiped out. but it's not going to be an easy or neat process. an innocent palestinians are going to die by the hundreds every day. this could escalate and i mean, dramatically escalate and in the west. it's hard to imagine that cooler heads are going to prevail. my guest today daniel levy has always told me that the palestine is real device is never going to simmer down and just go away on its own. it will always come back screaming back unless it's result. the events of this month really prove his point. the conflicts, the dormant and low level for years and years,
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but now it's back big time with or without the how mazda attacks of october 7th, it's hard to be optimistic that it's going to be resolved anytime soon. and that sadly is the bottom line. the and then 1000000 palestinian will leave the house. as i looked at the south of the gulf has an area that come to be really enough for hosting this specific number of displaced people are evacuating to a place for us to do this. there isn't any place to people in hospitals that need electric, see the need welfare for their life. the,
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the unrelenting is riley strikes on guys or the one hospital is already running out a few and supplies the hello. i'm emily and gwen. this is l g 0. live from doha. also coming up seems of destruction move in 5 and a half 1000 palestinians have been killed since the bombardment began on october

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