across northern parts of africa, maybe they all show some heavier, right for time just around the straight edge of pro to well, the positive rock. i could see a little bit of time whether shy was continue. meanwhile, across the west, africa retreating further south west as they should do. and those showers extend right across the heart of africa, some heavy right in the air into what times in the air, pushing up into kenya into somalia. southern africa jenn reach right now. and we'll be up this week of the as israel achieved, its objective is by launching was on cancer for decades. it has phones, the strip and light staged palestinians. their sounds caring out yet another more on the scale. move a scene before the will. as soon as rose purposes, this is inside story, the

hello welcome to the program. i'm told mccrae is riley. troops have and it goes from its north and east and intensifying thing is being reported between his riley soldiers and homos fighters. that's as this trip is being continuously bombarded, so far more than a $1300.00 palestinians have been killed with that number rising all the time. this is not the 1st time as well has launched the military offensive in the territory. this is its 5th since 2007 protests are being held around the world in support of the palestinians. and many fate of the conflict could spread through the region and beyond. so is possible, and what does israel seek to gain from its unprecedented for on cancer? there's plenty to discuss without guess, but 1st, this report by sour gill that looks at as well as military actions. and the history behind the,

the bulls of fire have looked up the sky above garza every night since october, the 7th. but a communications blackouts, followed by one of israel's most ferocious bombardments laid the foundations of its ground invasion. israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu says he will not give into demands for cease by a just as the united states would not agree to cease far after the bombing of pearl harbor. or after the terrorist attack of $911.00. israel will not agree to a cessation of hostilities with some us after the risk attacks of october 7, cause for seas, for a cause, for israel to surrender to hum us to surrender. to tear was the surrender to barbara's that will not happen is real fast occupied the gaza strip in 1967. and it's how the tight grip ever since. in 2005, it disengaged ordering due specialists to leave. but it is kept control of the

lives of palestinians ever since. and in 2007, impose the blockade of land at sea. often how must controls the territory from 5 to us since 2008 is round, has repeatedly launch the tax on the densely populated area. so today is ready. tanks have been seen on one of the main roads in gaza, linking the north and south. they believed to be preparing to divide the strength of my says it spiked as a box spring is ready for that. but the people who live in gaza, they say no way is safe. within the 1st month we based on something we have, we have the sounds all the time they i'm by we've also been in the we have each other. when do we both? both we both break up or about. this is the 5th cycle of violence and gaza in

recent years. and it's even led to increased fighting between is re forces and has block on the boat between left and on and his route is fueling fish of a wide conflict in the middle east. impulsively beyond many a question is ralph makes if i'm what it may gain and lose by waging this unprecedented war on gaza. sorry, go the inside story. like i, let's bring in august now and tell of is michael ari policy fellow at the mentioned institute. a political think tank, he is also the form is rarely invested as a cypress. and the former counselor for political affairs at the embassy of israel in the united kingdom in cairo is our occur founder and director of european north african center of research. and in london is chunk of georgie, the defense editor with the economist. thank you very much for being with us here

on inside story, michael. if i could please begin with you. as all state, the goal is to wipe out who mazda is both the militant group and the political force inside godsa. how realistic is that from is a from and is riley point of view, was going to be white, and i think that's better. that's a bit to be nice today by pressing the guns clear of them. now now after the 7 incident, this is and what should be done, let's say, i think it's the cost clear in the 11th for all his relatives. because previous to that, i mean, we have different kinds of the lives or different kind of perceptions benefit. we may be able to get data from assets, etc, etc. and i think it'd be, it is why it's clear on the international not, and the not to be honest. i mean, it's why keep pressing the support to florida is only and let's say authentication right now. oh not eh, i mean,

not confuse our sentence in between. the support of not enabling how much any on to meant nothing to anybody to get on the coupon. and as far as the be concerned about the solution. so i think it is going to be a very the absolutely back to back to be honest. okay. sorry. do you think that at this point in time that israel has a long term plan when it comes to an extended for as well. uh, i don't think as far as 10 uh, take on that very long floor especially that it's um, it's losing its diplomatic ties. it's losing its normalization steps. it's plus the decades of social diplomacy and integration in the region today with this

whole start act is where it is making everything difficult for itself, not for anyone else. it's not the realistic, it's old because the country it is read as a state in this region cannot practice these. and this kind of practices especially that it's trying to be integrated, it's starting to win over neighbors. so it doesn't look realistic to lose decades of diplomacy. isn't shushing, do you think that israel has potentially backed itself into a bit of a corner here by saying so early on after october, the statement that it was going to decimate him, us with a huge ground invasion is going to completely overwhelm is do you think that now it could be potentially perceived as being weak if it doesn't follow through, on those threats that have made so really on here. yes, i should say is around never committed to a full scale ground invasion,

but it did commit to the destruction johan us. and i think that that is a risk that it finds itself unable to do so in a reasonable time frame. and it is worth remembering here that almost every previous ground invasion of garza has been roughly in the region of 2 weeks. we now seeing is randy officials talk about a wall that may last for a few months. but if you think about the extent of how masses, networking side garza, the fact that they have been running goals are formerly for 16 years. but of course they're influenced inside districts. it goes back a long way before that. this is going to be an exceptionally difficult military job and unless they can, by themselves the diplomatic space to conduct military operations in gaza, probably for years to come. i think it's, it's not going to be realistic, but they can completely eliminate homeless. his military and political presence, and therefore he will be back to some kind of situation in which they will be containing and managing how nice his presence rather than having destroyed it altogether at the end. oh, my god, what's your response to that?

is there an appetite for the war foot for a full invasion? is there a service for revenge with an israel? and do you think that that is clouding any judgment in terms of the, the, the consequences of having a long drawn out war? i fully understand those about these say, what's your most, i mean i say i'm in most of them is most of them. what i'm saying is that this is a different situation. this is not the as you round off for the violence that you had in the last few fuel fuel. yes. every year you got an hour or 2. yes. let's say this is a different situation. i think it is why i emphasize data nowadays. it is very clear to you that this is what the bucket has to do. now going to be enough to, i mean, the law process, but i don't think it's the big let's the mouse or yes. i mean, i don't, i don't, let's accept any given statement by the way, but let's say yes it is correct. it's not outside of the key is right and needs to

be is roll like the middle. there are $2.00 a month after that. say the if i bought i get i passed by how mass to be a 100. i am still in the process buying the, let's say so far, strategic support. the agent itself as well. we and the pension and the price of domestically in each account to let's say, the whole time we can figure out, let's say in the region, it goes down, i'll do my best space and then it is a clear understanding again, but in assessing be dropping him off now we, we always so i think it today i missed it, but i look to see that i cannot, i can look at it. this is a, this is a point. it is a homeowner, i would say goal for too many of those. instead of using the okay, i just want to bring in a little bit more on this when we talk about the ground invasion. because before is

ready trips into gums. i spoke with david to try it as a form of director of the us central intelligence agency. about the risks that come with a ground invasion. here's what he had to say about this. what would be an extraordinary late, challenging scenario? it's hard to appreciate. in fact, how difficult this would be. we've discussed described it is fiendishly difficult. urban combat is always challenging, but when you add the presence of over $200.00 is really hostages. you add in a, an enemy who's willing to kill himself to take is really, is with them. a move infant, as you know, is founded on the idea of destroying israel and killing jews, as we saw saturday over a week ago with her risk murder, barbaric, and choose a over 1300 is released. and this would be a very, very challenging mission. keep in mind that it took the rocky security forces 9

months to clear a similar city most, all of the islamic state, other terrorist elements, obviously, extremes with support of the us. the is really is, are much better. they have a lot more capability. well, that's clearly someone who knows a lot about ground invasions having been involved in the us and versions of iraq and afghanistan showing militarily, how difficult is this going to be for these riley troops to try and take the northern gaza with the extensive tunnel network that homos is going to, as well, the answer is very difficult and just to give you a sense of why, let's reflect on the fact that in 2014, during operation protective age, the last major israel gone so conflict. the idea, as i understand it took out about 32 kilometers all time as tunnels. as i understand it is about 1300 kilometers of those tunnels across garza. so that gives you an indication of how difficult that is. we can also compare this to all the

comparable of and conflict. and if you look at the coalition effort to try to remove islamic state from mosul back in 2016, 2017. that was a 9 months campaign on the ground, preceded by many months prior to that, that strikes. but still in could it called costs very heavy civilian casualties. and it was conducted using a ground force of iraqi units who are able to benefit from western intelligence and western drugs in western and power. this is going to be a different kind of campaign. it's going to be a different campaign because the idea will have to do with itself, the idea is a conscript on e. of course, a large number of those who been mobilized are not regular professionals. and it will have to do this on an accelerated time table, much more quickly than the coalition was able to do in muscle. so all in all this is going to be difficult even in relation to all of these extremely difficult and

campaigns all for lu jr. ramadi muscle and many others, even by the stand it, it will be difficult. so we've all seen the civilian cost already in, in the, in the week since october, the 7th. that is clearly only going to become worse once a full ground invasion is on the why isn't it a bull? ground evasion is totally a breach to humanity that if that's how exactly you see it, 1st of all, we refuse the comparison of your stomach stage to have mass event. if some of that kind of a countries that our countries are not getting along with hammers, but the comparison here is rejected, specially because this is a distance group we call high mass of assistance book because they fight for the civilians over guys that that's how we state because it now all the era people who work again is how mass now they are revolving around them. who do you think?

did that? i think these really prime minister did that in corps, iran and kind of as in the region, it doesn't have to be the folds of civilians today. it doesn't have to fall on the expense of forest 4000 little kids. it doesn't have to be that way. we don't have to see the scenery. okay. if x ray has more, uh, uh, aspiration and expanding in the region that's also rejected evacuating the people from a land, a territory that the stairs already but all, and are they a colonization of is raised? so that should be respect because there is international loading that part to protect civilians entre per tech is a right and to protect the neighbors, right. but it's very 1st has to jerome it's borders in order not to

face this kind of conflicts again in the region this region doesn't need every, it should have hope cuz on the iranian action from bear region and try to get like a purchase that so yes, yes, michael, complicating this even further is the fact that there's more than 200 is ready to capt is being held by him. us somewhere in gaza. i mean do you think that that's a, that's a priority is right. i know a lot of family members of those being held outraged. it's a no more has been done. this is our priority plays that. but the, the only emphasize the complexity of this advice. i spend the day before yesterday and different the individual data, the families of the hospital doing their job goods. as my i feel as possible all the government and the government civilians jumping over to release the field for

our discussion. if the company case very much along the organization in got that, how do you deal with the, your people release them and to as a matter of how much i want a better place to a few minutes ago. i don't know if examples, let's say i want to think about it. if i make it does not want to be up to bind to hard. got a stick. it did not say that if you could give a heavy that's a full brownwell duration. it did not say so. in my opinion, it to me is that this process which really, let's say a lot, i have no idea how long it takes you will be already at his valley and by the metal bands i brought in. my name is not a fine to do is to examine restaurant as much as possible over a mass by distinguishing the wrong defendant. still gonna be, but it got us to be honest, us going get believe, you know,

it's not look for the successful. i'm aware of this supplemental instability and kept track of this, let's say in gosh, let's say you've got 3 big, but basically this is, is really bodies. now i am 400 wow. and 40 i was telling them that they had to be brought by this danielle study that is related all the region of please don't make mistakes. that assignment statement. they the distinction but reinstall the young people. and to, let's say, i guess some, uh, yeah, at least sort of understood showing as we saw on october the 7th, as well as military and intelligence. i had a mess of 5. yes. and they said that they were even embarrassed by how easy it was for a mouse to go across the board. do you think that israel's army has been overestimated? end on the other side of that, do you think that

a ground defensive actually plays into him off his hands because obviously it doesn't have tanks or any will planes, but it can fight straight to street building to building tunnels the tunnel? yes, the festival, i think that all old countries are at risk of intelligence. that is, it does happen to all countries that happened to the united states on $911.00. it is happened to european countries with terrorism in the last last 5 to 10 years. even ukraine itself was surprised by the russian attack being discounted american intelligence. but it is nevertheless, the case. but these are all defense forces remain the most technologically sophisticated and well trained on force in the middle east. you may like them, you may despise them, but that's, that's a professional assessment about that proficiency on the ground. but nonetheless, i think you're absolutely right to say that certain types of invasions can play into the hands of thomas the name of terrorism. notwithstanding my colleagues

reference to having us as a resistance group, the name of terrorism is the strategic use of violence. it is sometimes designed to provoke a response, but can wesson conditions for civilians in an area by dragging you know, i mean, and by creating political conditions that favor the tire restore organization. that is, what we saw from al qaeda is what we have seen from other groups. and it could be what we see from time a. so while my view is know on force in the well, but stand by off to the kind of massacre that we saw on october 7th. and it is entirely understandable the israel meets the weekend and the great honda so that it cannot repeat that kind of massacre if it were to be sucked into gaza in an open ended occupation. i think that the risk, as we have seen in some previous, is rarely conflicts like that in 11 in the 1980s is that it creates political conditions that may perversely stay behind us. and i think no is rarely official, would really say that no end date. so there's also a risk of this splitting

b on gaza. and israel isn't there because there's been a lot of talk about contagion about this being bright, breaking out into a wider war around his blah. and now potentially human getting more and more involved. how big concern is that? that's what nobody wants. that's what no country or state in this region of the world helps for. but that's it. but it's it's, it's really weird how the west sees things or is raised bar to an hour part. we see that there's a lot of injustice here. guys, what was under siege, and then there is, is some political disputing is right. and then all of this revenge comes out on the guys the people just be after mass oak ration again is a, the is really government which was an operation that does not equal to such huge invasion. and no one was and set to be a region of war taking more of the,

of our resources more people's lives. no one wants that. but that, that fears might come if it continues like that because no one can know it because the way you do it, when would they get involved? and we kind of know that the kind of eager for it. okay, so the piece and notes drag this region down to to, to more fire and bring funding. and i don't know, well what, what are we waiting for more involvement from other countries and, and, and, and to save how to save days, ready for our minister to say though, i'm the expensive people me. it doesn't make any sense. it's on the expensive of human lives. so is there, is there a, as a state as people that we do respect people a human kind everywhere should get done with that and with their government?

and i say that, yes. okay. michael, just after all the fighting has finished. this is where i'll actually have a plan for what happens next doesn't want to occupied because it doesn't want to try and displace the millions of people that will still be occupying that land. i think that's the thing to put it as clear as possible that say this is not an invasion. is it? somebody said okay. and as i said we but this is what happens next. what happens off to the invite? yeah, yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. yes. i think is successful enough, let's say then it should be possible dot com also sorry b and to, to replace it with the legitimate address. okay. but i still have the problem. clearly it, we need to transition the clearly we need to ask them out of an international insight, environmental and so on. and hopefully we can, we can, you can reach this point, but i want to mention one more, eh,

what about the lack of peace process? is what i understand, it's not tragically. okay, that's a little piece process. let's nickel for me because and that's a momentum is it creates a kind of mistake. nowadays we have an emergency government. i don't know what happens after the lot. all right, and usually it is, and then i elections most probably it will bring forth what need to come to the bottom then the message is the goss that death metal. when we take a moment to levels, piece of process is not, i don't seem to put it this way. so the danger to get kind of figured out pushing the employee side and we should bring it as. so as soon as possible, let's include the equation not being made in order to show what is the shank. can you just give us an idea of what you think is going to happen once the

fighting is all over and done with how big a miss is big going to be less than guys are. and do you think that is royal and other leaders in the region actually has a plan to deal with what whatever is left behind. all right, well, i mean festival, this is going to be profound destruction. we've a combined colleagues at the economist have looked at satellites images, and we estimate that around 10 percent of gauze, housing stock, residential housing stock has been destroyed. and we estimate that about 280000 people will be missing home. so there is a huge reconstruction challenge irrespective of what happens next. but in addition to that, there is a postwar governance challenge, which is to say that either honda says we can but not destroyed in which case it will still be present or will be destroyed. and that will have to be some kind of alternative arrangement, either that is the palestinian authority running the place. a coalition of arab and gulf countries providing some kind of assistance or other key,

a circumstance in which a mass, or even more violent, extreme splintered movements may find the latitude to establish themselves and conduct further attacks on israel. so a great deal depends on how the war ends. you know, if it ends like the other conflicts and ended with the c 5 a deal, and how much is being chastened, but it's still present. we may go back to normal, but otherwise we may face some more disordered situation. that is, characterized by a severe lack of government. sorry, we've only got about a minute or so left just picking up on on that point. do you think that you can even truly get rid of her mouse? i mean, surely there's a scenario that it could potentially come back even stronger, even more. radicalized to this scenario is the, on the, is there any table to, to take, to mess up the tape, go to as an exit of this war, but unfortunately, that's would make it a very long boar. it's very hard. i think we can, how may i ask, who hope ro, thomas, to power interest out that i'm 5?

so i think there should be drawing of borders 1st for this, for to and for sustainable bees in the region and for sustainable security. drawing borders for both israel and palestine. okay. thank you so much. we really do appreciate all of your time and your insights from all of you. michael, how rights are kara? it's your young joe. she thank you so much for joining us and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting a website else. is there a dot com? and for further discussion goes, well facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on x out handle is at a inside story. to me, tell mccrae and the whole team here. good bye for now. the as the situation in gaza escalate,

we bring your expertise and honestly for ease somebody's re, u. r. c. is that the, the, the palestinians have to south south to where the, how much is thought to comply with international the israel can do what it really. that's the reason why is real kicks behaving. so cory, i would say this particular operation somewhere between the crime against humanity and genocide, it was really important that there was a jewish boy saying not in our name. you don't believe that this kind of progression excuse, safer, it doesn't make is rarely safer state with us, but the nature of developing on tuesday and i thought provoking on sundays. but the patient doesn't have time to wait for the extremely unfortunate. but there are no quick wins and events or research hard hitting interviews. do you feel like america is less than the age of these days, or is it just a different full? i think the demography of the process facing realities do you feel that the fraction is already starting the g 7 in the u. s. on one side,

china and the brakes on the other? i think there is a huge piece of that to happen to the story on told to how does their sights and sounds to choose. so at mid autumn harvest festival soviet and so also known as the korean thanksgiving. it's also a time for honoring ancestors imaging. dot com is dedicated to families separated by the korean war. nearly a 134000 people had registered with the unification, ministry in the late 19 eighties. the state arranged family reunion events with your career. the last event was in 2018 and the to one will be out soon to soap remains, which has to be time for set rate of time. and he's a reminder of every one they had to be behind the world slow down. we stand for as homes with fits of global nichols reserves. indonesia is points to leave the global, the battery in the so we definitely manage our abundant resources and play

a vital role in solar energy. harnessing offerings, 75 percent of global carbon credits essential. committed to environmental protection, enhancing investment climate, digital licensing. your better tomorrow the the other the i'm or kyle, this is the news our live from so hot coming up in the next 60 minutes. garza's health ministries has a limited number of wounded palestinians will be allowed to leave the strip an end to egypt through the rest of crossing. hundreds of foreign nationals are also expected to crossover.

sifting through the depth, briefly any one that.