homes with tips of global nickel reserves. indonesia is points to leave the global, the battery industries. we definitely manage our abundant resources and play a role in solar energy harness the offerings, 75 percent of global carbon credits essential, committed to environmental protection, enhancing investment climate to digital licensing. your better tomorrow. another must occur in gossip is really strikes 2 days in a row, kill more than a 100 people as a value a refugee comes you and is calling the region a living cells is real, has now targeted hospitals, refugee camps, on mosque. what will it take to launch a war crimes investigation? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm getting you navigate us. so for a 2nd consecutive day is really forces launched an air strike on japan. yeah, that's the largest refugee camping does on more than a 100 people had been killed in 2 days of bombardment as the total number of palestinians killed in garza since october the 7th. and here is 8800. the one is calling the regent living. how does this palestinians deal with unprecedented death? destruction and deprivation. rights groups are demanding israel be investigated for work crimes for targeting civilian areas. but it's not clear if that will be possible, given israel's backing by the united states and other western powers, will discuss this on the wider conflict with our guests in a moment. first, this update from victoria getting be on the situation in gaza. a 2nd is ready, so why come the jabante a refugee kemp's less than 24 hours after an attack,

killed more than a 100 pieces on choose day 6 booms. drop by his very will planes on palestinian homes resulted in this seeing if connie, when witness describe this and spinning like the end of the world with no excavators, heavy machinery or rescue equipment survive, is trying to recover people with that. the hands, the injured were taken to the nearby invasion hospital, which was already overwhelmed with patients. a large number of injured have come to us of the huge explosion that shook the entire jabante a refugee 10 hundreds of injuries, hundreds of days. they were just in their homes. they were targeted while they were in the homes. the u. n. has cooled israel siege and destruction of cause a humanitarian catastrophe. for 2300000 people visit like a suit rule to medicine, electricity, and a few is radio strikes of also directly head golf is hospitals including it. so any

cancer facility and the areas around the l could hospital, it's illegal to attack hospitals on the international humanitarian little did you need the convention, stipulate the medical staff on transport must be protected regardless of the actions of well, i'm fine. so, for example, using hospitals for military purposes and the other side most comply with internationally mounted samuels on the conduct possibilities on that, as i said, does extend special protections to medical units, which must be protected and respected at all times. the international criminal court recently confirm that it has jurisdiction to investigate possible real crimes in the occupied palestinian territories. even though it's rarely, it's not a signatory to the room statute which governs the quotes. human rights watch, a leading human rights organization has a v i. c, c to issue a formal statement on the escalating situation between israel and thomas. it says

a warning by the court could deter will crimes during the conflict. victoria case in b for inside story. the the we can now bring in our guests joining us in the canadian city of london on and on terry, who is michael link. he's a former special roberts for, for the human rights situation in the palestinian territories occupied since 1967 and around my law and the occupied westbank. we have new to all day, a former spokesman for the palestinian task force on public diplomacy and in london in the united kingdom donna tyler rivera, who is a senior crisis response advisor with amnesty international. thanks for your time with us on the inside story on algae 0, michael link. we saw the images, the refugee account being targeted for a 2nd time by the is released killing hundreds, being described as a massacre by some people. now the fundamental rule of international humanitarian law and conflict is that all parties must distinguish at all times between

combatants and civilians. is that what we're seeing here? it's probably most likely not. it's hard to understand how we are now to death toll around 8800 palestinians in the, in gas of the vast majority of them being a civilians and not see this as potential war crimes. amnesty has, has called for crimes investigations, human rights watch this call for work crimes investigations. keep in mind that it may or may not be deliberate targeting of civilians. but even if it's reckless or indiscriminate. but that amounts to a war crime and international law, which very strict restrictions on, on what the military's can do with respect to this. and even if people haven't left north guys or as many hundreds of thousands have not done, israel must be after the warning that is or has given israel must continue to

distinguish at all times between combatants and civilians. and if face air straight chord tank strike is going to cause a disproportionate civilian casualties, then it cannot do that. and there seems to be no, no evidence that israel has taken that kind of distinction and that kind of legal thinking into account. okay, let's bring in a joint to tell her from amnesty. so do you think that this is good? honestly, has been calling for world crimes investigation. but tell us, tell us why and what's, what amnesty has seen. and do you think that this strike on the 2 strikes, in fact on somebody a refugee camp are going to lead to our work on this investigation as well. i don't know what they will listen to because of to see it. but as an investigator, i investigate what has happened and i'm not, i'm not able to predict what's going to happen in the future. but this is yet

another strike. and there have been many seems to 7th of october, as indeed the many, many in the previous years. but since these new escalation, there have been many strikes that should be investigated, bus work crimes, they think these are the latest. and clearly a situation where so many civilians are including thousands of children, have killed and many more of been been killed. the many more been injured in strikes that are being carried out in very densely populated areas where these way the authorities in this way. the army know full well that there are many, many civilians, regardless of the nice slits that them draw on entire area, which is also not something that can be considered an effective the warning because warnings must be specific and precise in both geographically and in terms of time

and this is not the case, but the authorities and the army of these one knew that there were many civilians and thousands and thousands of civilians in engine argue refugee compounds. there are a di, didn't go for safety and elsewhere. and to have carried out a strike, which is dot and norm nice and using and weapons with a wide impact area. it is no one in advance. there could be no doubt in the minds of those who carried daugherty attacks and of those or death tack. that there was an extremely high likelihood of virtual certainty that large numbers of civilians would be killed and injured. that for the requirement of proportionality and of the distinction and do not appear to have been met. and in this case as in many other cases and, and the civilians are, you know,

clearly continuing to to pay the price. okay, and order order. i see you nodding along with what's on it, tell her how to say, what are your thoughts on the job idea, refugee camp, striking particularly this issue of proportionality, which we've heard being brought up. i mean, how, how, how do you see the proportionality playing out in the context of what's happening in gaza after the october 7th attacks? well, thank you for having me that in i, i would remind the viewers of statements made by senior is really officials political and military at the beginning of this assault, which is that they, you know, several of them said we are more interested in destruction than accuracy we will turn gaza into a city of trends. we will eliminate everything and does of these are statements made by high officials in the is really government and military. and i think what

we're seeing right now in the body of animals set off and all across the gulf, the strip is a very accurate translation of that, of those declarations of intent. then i would also, uh the uh, the gall, this trip is very heavily monitored. and surveilled by israel is real, knows it literally as the phone number of every person in goza. and a recent example of that was your own reporter. you must say you, when these really are me. a started increasing the bombardment in her neighborhood in does a city they called up her husband was spelled. 9 his entire name 1st and last name. and they knew exactly which apartments he lived in and they asked him to leave. even though of course, the whole neighborhood was under bombardment. that it was a, there was no safe route to take. but what i'm trying to say is that, that there, there are no mistakes here as far as i'm concerned,

isabel knows who lives in these neighborhoods. it knows how many children of women will be a victimized by these massive, massive attacks on very densely populated at 4 areas, especially when we're talking about a refugee camp like as a vanya and it does not care. and the reason why it does an air is because it has enjoyed the political protection of countries like the united states and others, including members of the i, c. c, like the u. k. in germany allows there's, it, there's an entrenched culture of infinity. they know, and i can get away with it because they've gotten away with it in the past. this is not the 1st time. israel has been accused of war crimes. of course, these are for portions we haven't seen in decades, but really what we're seeing is, is real. taking full advantage of the fact that it feels that it is above the law

above accountability, above even reproach. and the palestinian lives have been deemed expanded right by major inter enough powers, regardless of what they say about humanitarian assistance, which really rings hollow. at this point, mike, the link to the director of the new york office of the high commission for human rights has resigned. i'm sure you're aware and he said that the world is bearing witness to a textbook case of genocide from your experience as a former us special reference or is this a case of genocide building? this is the put the quite a possible makings of a, of a, of a genocide. a genocide, of course, is a very high standard to at to meet an international law which includes an attempt to try to eliminate in a whole or in part of a, a, a people. and we, we know um, genocide has been pointed to with respect to rolanda with respect to me tomorrow.

and they were saying that these are not easy stances to be able to make. but increasingly we're hearing great respect and voice as an international diplomacy and international law. saying that we have the makings of our case on genocide here . indeed, i just listened to an interview earlier on today by the we school cup, who was the 1st prosecutor of the international criminal court, which he said use the word genocide as a, as a, as a possibility. and with respect to the facts on the ground. and what you need is not only evidence of the factual evidence of, of, uh, people being eliminated large members. and we already are at $8800.00 deaths. but the, but the intent by the, by the rulers of those who are generating the other conflict. and as has been mentioned, we have repeated statements by senior military and political leaders and is real,

which the discuss it is of the entire population of 2300000 palestinians. and guys, i is guilty over what happened on october 7th. and that the guy that needs to be eliminated guys a needs to the and the do to be entirely depopulated. ok last spring. and going to tell to tell us whether amnesty has seen any evidence that backs up this claim by the director of the new york office at the high commission for human rights, where he's saying this is almost as a genocide. it's a case of genocide building. i mean, obviously as the previous speaker, i said the, the threshold and the end to legal analysis when it comes to making determination on the on genocide is, is as lengthy and complex. and right now i'm missing international. we're focused on the investigating what are very serious and very all pos,

violations of international humanitarian law, which are extremely, extremely grace in describing the entire process. yeah. can you tell us what some of those violations had been from either side in fact and well clearly which scene. a attacks them violate the i guess the, the proportionality requirement. the fact that in disagreement as attacks have been carried out by late the principle of distinctions. these are cornerstones of international humanitarian. though, we've also seen clear deliberate attacks on civilians from the posting and i'm groups that went into as well and deliberate the attacks of civilians. these are all crimes that violate international humanitarian law that should be investigated us as a war crimes. and very, very obviously,

that we're also seeing on the applied to them are based, well, the deliberate restriction on the entry of you many cherry, an aide, and the goods which are absolutely necessary for the survival of the civilian population. and she will be, and perhaps the most obvious because no fee will not be allowed in 2000. the will is necessary to produce electricity to keep hospital equipment functioning, life saving equipment function in, in hospitals, as well as purifying work to at the moment people in guys that don't have clean water to drink and you know, and then of course there is everything else uh, food and mets, in general, these are items that can never, ever be restricted. there should be on factored entry of medicines, food and, and, and all that is necessary for the civilian population provide. and i would also add

these restrictions are not a new in position on the part to be as well since the 7th of october, but they have been going on for 16 years. so again, if, if, if one is looking at a deliberate action taken to impose collective punishment, which is another very serious violation of international humanitarian law, collective punishment on disability and population of guys. you know, that there is clear evidence of that. the, the for symbol displacement that we know we clean, demanding that the entire population of north guys out, you know, one of the most densely territories eventually populated territories in the world, the us, but the days notice to move south. knowing that actually the place where the civilian population of noise engaged us be nice to move to is not safe either because

bombardments. a have been increased or in the past 2 weeks is you know, since the population of the noise because to be nice to move south. and so yeah, people, civilians, families have no way of knowing what they could possibly do to protect themselves to protect their children. and so all of these are violations of international humanitarian law and they should all be forced to get it to work as water crime. okay, and new to all day. i mean, a lot of the, the violations that have just been listed by donna tell her from amnesty are not new. we've seen them before. a nothing moves on the international front when it comes to the prosecution of these work crimes. as organizations like the international criminal court, for example, i mean how, how do you think that work crimes can be actually prosecuted? what needs to be done? what sort of avenues are there for accountability, realistically a while, i mean,

the only often use of accountability or the legal accountability at least are, are no, and then i know that the, they're being pursued by march to your question. i think that's one. encouraging find that we're seeing on the streets of capital around the world is that people, young voters, in countries around europe and in the united states are marching in their hundreds of thousands. and they are angry and rightly so. they are outraged at the complete disconnect between the principle they stand for and the end, the positions of their governments. and i believe that's part of the accountability that we all hope to see is a, you know, in the medium and long term. these voters holding their officials accountable for alice ness or lack of responsibility and for complete complicity in, in,

in some cases what's going on right now in gaza. but also more broadly with the may be maintaining an intention this system of occupation of colonized ation disposition and ethnic cleansing. if you mean, if you take a look at what the world has a lot to happen for all these decades in the west bank, they've allowed settlers to decide where palestinians can live, where they can, uh build their homes. and then they decide who lives or dies was detained, who's not, was labeled a good guy, and who was labeled a terrorist, even if they're award winning human rights advocates and in dogs. the world is allowed for far too many years. israel, the occupier to lock up an entire population of more than 2000000 people off of them. children deprived them of the most of this central

a requirements of life. not a bit of a say on who can get medical treatment or not. and they manage that, they've allowed it to happen and that is what needs to change. and i think in many ways what we need is a change of the, of the thinking before we can really help for accountability of the legal or political level. michael, linda. but what about the new elizabeth just talking about the complicity? what about the complicity of other governments of other countries likes the united states like the united kingdom, which was referenced, and the letter off the, the gentleman who, who resigned the director of the new york office of the high commission for human rights. he said this that the u. s. and the u. k. are, are being complicit in what's unfolding in gaza. do you think that we would see western leaders ever being held accountable for their complicity or? or is that just simply too difficult? is not in the near future, i'm a,

i'm afraid to say that when we talk about international law, it is indeed the moral standard that with that nation's promise to each other and to the citizens that they will uphold. but in order for international law to be, to be effective, it needs to be combined with international resolved. and that has not happened to your western nations as, as many appointed over the last 4 weeks. i've been explicit with respect to the males. the ations of rushes invasion of ukraine is annexation of the crimea, as violations of international law, yet refused to hold the same standards. but they themselves actually have voted for in un security council resolutions, as well as a new in general, is certainly resolutions with respect to israel's many violations of international law, including annexation, including the settlements, which are a war crime under the, under their own statute, including us refusal to apply the laws of occupation of the 4th geneva convention.

i may want to remind your audience, but this is not the 1st time we've been here with that, with respect to israel and gaza and the allegation of work crimes. after israel's assaults of 2008 oh, $9.00 on gas or after 2014, and after the assaults with respect to the great murder of return in 2018 on each of those 3 occasions. the human rights council of united nations and geneva appointed an independent commission of inquiry. and each of those free commission of inquiry said that there were a great likelihood that israel had committed war crimes during each of those 3 occasions that also so that it considered a most likely committed war crimes. during the 1st 2 of those occasions. and in each of those free reports, it said we have a desperate lack of accountability. i think of the goals still report a 2009. they use the term adjust this crisis in the occupied palestinian territory . it, i'm sad to say this as

a former special rather towards the end as an international human rights lawyer. but in the middle east, particularly when it comes to palestine, international law is closer to power than it is the justice. okay, just very briefly, michael, what is the point that i sent to international off israel can choose to ignore it over and over because it is, it is, are one called the language of a moral compass for wrote this world in a world is divided by race by class, by religion, and by geography. and this is a one called him cry, a human created institution, but such as the moral standards by which we judge each other. and okay, i would not, i would never say, do i have been in the, or it'd be cynical about it. i would say push harder. all right, donna taylor. it just likes to get your take on, on a recent report by amnesty, an investigation has found that the is really army indiscriminately and therefore, unlawfully used white phosphorus in the south of lebanon on the 16th of october.

can you tell us about that and what you're calling on to happen next? yes, to me. the reason is it only the self the it isn't me because we're seeing the pictures of gaza as well, where it appears to be that wide false versus being used to yes. and we have also published on that um after that is its the dentist. so we were able to verify use a white phosphor spice in garza and then south. nothing on a through a variety of means. we, we, we show the munitions of being and, but with the forces that were located both in the, in the southern border or base, well, close the guys and, and didn't the noise close to lebanon. we still videos that we were able to relocate and, and verify, showing a wi fi source being adverse. did all the guys all been dead toward the end of it

as a, to a neighborhood, again, densely populated areas. and we were able to investigate the strikes in india and, and on by the shrub and body in, in south lebanon, which also injured civilians. we have not received reports of civilians being harmed uh, in, in the using guys. uh, but we have in, in the case of lebanon, uh, like fox sports is not a bond unis showing it can be used on tobacco sealed in areas where there are and stability ends. the monitoring which was used within garzo and in the lab and on. and i are and areas where there are chivalry ends and that's why we're using contravention. okay, i would just add one more point. yeah, just so basically the hops. what's the difference? this time is that we have the international criminal court prosecutor who has made the statement um, the rasa boyd. you're saying that okay,

he's off today. i'm glad you're looking into both into both and a tax committed by israel at the right time. because the on the, i'm not final, i'm not final thought. i'll bring a note all day. are you optimistic that curry con will, will move quickly and open investigations on what's happening news? and will that make a difference to cautiously optimistic that in time of the not so far really then much to gain the confidence of palestinians and many in the international human rights a sphere. he has been dubiously, i absent from, from any kind of interaction or statements regarding several clear violations of palestinian rights and international law. now and in the past is statement while a bit murphy gives us some hope, but i think he needs to be pushed and he needs to be held to account. and he needs

to understand that the world is watching and the integrity and spending of the institution to which he answers to is on the line if he fails. and if he reaffirm suspicions that he is not exactly balanced and the justice he wants to deliver might not be blind. then he really jeopardizes the whole institution of international accountability. i hope that those skepticism about skepticism is wrong. my hope that he can deliver something to the victims who still have some faith in that international system. all right, well, have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining us. mike. link new to hold and on and tell that rivera, we thank you for your time, and thank you for watching. you can see the program again, any time by visiting our website, outta 0, dot com for further discussion and go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can join the conversation on x or handle is asia inside stories

for myself, the entire team here and so far. thanks for watching. bye bye for news . the

. the hello. this is the news our on out to 0. i'm for the back to live in to have with all continuing extensive coverage of israel's will on gas coming up in the next 60 minutes. israel it talks more civilian areas in gaza. the regions launches refugee camp is hate for 2nd day in a row. multiple casualties are reported as a bakery is hit near the house, shoot the hospital in java city.