i was going to go to, i guess that will refine a who is going to try so little bit more about what he feels is the analysis here in your view. what type of israel james might be kinda mess canning of innocent civilians ever be justified to either in the future or right now of course these types of mass killings that we've seen over the past months and there is we're calling. we're talking about the most intensive bombing campaign in the history of the conflict with that at least there, there can be absolutely no military justification for them under the laws of war or under international law. but i think what we're seeing now is a israel has turned the civilian population up because

a strip into an objective into a target, because it's helping as, as it has so often and its previous military campaigns. it's hoping that by targeting a society by targeting the civilian population, that, that will exercise political pressure on the conductance whose military capabilities are more off. it appears unable to break. and to what extent do you think this to the risk of a, a regional escalation here? i need to know more about that tomorrow. because on the one hand, we have the us secretary of state anthony blinking, arriving of the region and on the other, the much anticipated address by the secretary general of has above the house. i don't know something about now. it's unclear what either of them. uh huh. i've planned, but it is also the case that i think that neither the united states nor has well

not as eager to see a further regional escalation escalation. but i think how has butler and others act in the coming days will depend very much on whether the blinking takes clear measure is towards is early de escalation and association of hostilities, or whether the young qualified us support for these rarely more efforts and, and, and defensive, they can see guys, district continues and all right, we're going to have to leave it that give me when lots of time were in your body. thank you very much indeed. well, darn enjoyed my call. it will be head and half now is more coverage of the will and goes to the bottom line is next the this is most is likes a policy and he ends in his radio occupied territories every day. as the year

arbitrary security checks the day, the old deal, especially for young palestinian man, i didn't do it. you asked me for my ideas. how does to new say then not going out unless they have to to avoid arrest check points and harassment from angry is really odd. non side tells us he feels the situation has lessened to palestinians on sunday, he was chased by launch group. this is randy settlers, one on his way to what i think his rating supermarket, the security guard came over shouting by pointing a gun at my face and forced me to the ground. it was discrimination only because on palestinians with formright groups quoting on his release to a tiny palestinians, they come across regardless of age palestinians a walrus that they'll be collectively punished more than they already have been high ups. they've clements and i have a question, are the wars we see today from gaza to ukraine?

a sign of decline, of american influence and power in the world. let's get to the bottom line. the more than 7000 palestinians have been killed by non stop is really bombing since the shock in our attack from us on october 7th. what about 1400 israelis were killed and about 200 others were taken hostage. the united nations has been warning about a huge humanitarian catastrophe, with millions of people innocent in this conflict, living under constant showing with no food, electricity, water, medicine, or fuel to keep the hospitals and ambulances running. but the un, which is lost about 30 of its own staff and gaza, has so far been ineffective. us president joe biden says he won't call for a cease fire or otherwise interfere in his really military plans. even us peers mount for a wider conflict in the region and in eastern you reps, the ukraine russian conflict, brian's on also with no end in sight. so what are today's region conflicts telling

us about shifting global power? is america still a nation whose position is matter to the rest of the world? or is it leaving a power vacuum that's being filled by other forces? today we're talking with charles captain, a senior fellow at the council on foreign relations professor of international affairs at georgetown university and author of the end of the american era, u. s. foreign policy and the geo politics of the 21st century. dr. corruption, thank you so much for joining us. this is a world and places in the world where american power used to matter. and i've just been reading your book again and wondering whether the contraction of america in the world is somehow creating these conditions. you know, i think there are 2 big develop and steve that are making world fuel policy terms, making the world feel like it's going upside down. one of them i think we saw coming and that is the diffusion of power, right?

we used to live in a world dominated by the united states and its democratic partners that represented say, 75 percent of global g d, p. and we're now heading into the world in which power will be the center, in which the number one power in the world within a decade or so will probably be china, india and may be number 2 in. the news is climbing the ranks. brazil getting stronger and stronger and this is just leading to the return of rivalries that come with multiple centers of power. the, everything that's happened and i think it, many of us did not see it coming. is the weakening of the liberal anchor of the global system. and in particular, with the political weakening that we've seen here in the united states with the political center in the united states. hollowing out with a liberal, populism on raw, in rise in both sides of the atlantic. and this,

in some ways hampers the ability of united states and its partners to anchor. this is an advocate of all turn, this moment in which there is an inflection, wind, a shit, in the distribution of power to a much more multi polar what you can call a poly centered world. so have these 2 things are combining to create a real sense of disorientation to within the is real, how mos conflict. now, president joe biden has refused to call for a ceasefire, refused to say he's going to intervene in any way and what the israelis are doing. we've also refused to call for a ceasefire in the ukraine, russia conflict, and i like americans to have a realistic sense of how that's perceived around the world and that there are other major powers. and i'll, you know, mentioned turkey and heir to one see the world differently. and are we in a situation where america is lost, the ability to be the great hedge,

a monic benign power. and now other nations in the world are organizing against it as it picks one side of the other in these conflicts. you know, i probably distinguish carefully between the war and crane and what's happening. and in israel, in the we're a, the israel is in the middle of carrying out against some us in ukraine. i think what we've seen is a situation in which ukraine is suffering a ball act of aggression by russia and in which the united states and its allies have agreed to help your brain, but don't have boots on the ground. and in the end of the day, the u. s. has said this is ukraine's more a brand names are fine. i think a dining ukraine makes the final call about what it's more ends are. and if the premiums want to keep fighting and try to get back from me and try to get back

every interest you friday in territory, that's very right. but i do say that much of the global south is not taking decide to despite the fact that this is a ball active progression. and i think that is in many respects, a consequence of a world in which many immersion powers are hatching in which china is now the lender of 1st resort and much of the global. so in which 2 thirds of the countries of the world trade war with china, that makes it with the united states. and so the country like india, like south africa, nigeria, brazil, indonesia. they don't want to take sides in what looks like a new era of east west rivalry. and as a consequence, there see the trends, even though i think this is a more that is very clearly a word of aggression against ukraine in which countries,

at least ethically and morally, should band together against russia. in the case of israel war with how boss, i think it's, it's more complicated in the sense that the israel palestine conflict is one in which there are doing verging opinions about morality, about ethics, about legality, about human re, lights that have divided the united states and many other parts of the world for quite a long time. and i think that's what we're seeing way out here. i think given the nature of the atrocities that come off carried out on october, 2nd, israel is seen as having a right to defend himself and having the right to respond with force. how is conflict way is out. however, we're have a big impact on how the rest of the world reacts whether civilian casualties

are next to a minimum, whether 80 flows in to goss in the form of fuel medicine, food. whether we see an effort to arrive at some sort of reasonable peace process at the end of the conflict. right now we're in the middle of it, it's proving to be a very divisive, bloody tragic event. from your experience, do you think is real, can go through the steps it wants to do right now in destroying him, austin, way of doing it and not have this conflict grow so far more significant in terms of numbers and scale? well, i think the president biden has his got more or less right. and then walk to fine line in the sense of supporting israel, going to is really in the middle of the conflict, providing military assistance to israel. but at the same time being very explicit

and saying don't be blinded by rage dos, make the same mistakes the united states did after 911 where we intervene in the, in afghanistan, and iraq and libya and syria. and in many respects to produce much more chaos, then stability. and i think it's a wise warning to israel because is really, is headed into a densely populated urban environment. under the best of circumstances, there will be significant casualties. on both sides. the united states learn the hard way in the rock. the military force is good at destroying things, but not very good at creating desire political outcomes. so i think that israel right now is trying to figure out how to balance its desire justified in my

mind. to dismantle a mouse with the reality that it's going to be a top floor and it has to play the long game and figure out what god will look like afterward. what is the relationship with palestinians and the broader middle east will be like when the dust settles? we have long years right now is you and i are talking in washington, the foreign minister of china. he said he believes that israel's actions have now gone beyond the level of self defense and response, but is key as you just said, essentially making a play to the global south. and again, taking advantage of this moment to maximize china's position of looking like the good player in the world. you know, i think the china is that is somewhat ambivalent about the war and the brain. and now the word that we see in the middle east, in the sense that the chinese have risen to a 6 to become

a significant player on the back of g o, political and g o e phenomena stability. and even though they've sided with food and supporter at least nominal way rushes war against ukraine, i'm not sure that they see this as a net gain for china. and max is gain because this is leading to global fragmentation. it is leading to economic di copland, and as it tends to fine, china's rivalry with the united states and the west. but i think you're right steve, that what china is doing here is in some ways attempting to stay out of these conflicts. yeah. at the same time, explain them to increase its standing in the global south to play the role of the country that standing up to western in germany. and in some ways, i think it's, it's be responsible in doing so because it is a thing in a bad thing,

rushes aggression against ukraine and rather than trying to play a work constructive role. busy in the middle east, where there is helping to negotiate the release of hostages. figuring out how to limit damage of getting you manage their in assistance into gaza. it's this has been doing some ways to exploit the issue to try to raise its profile in the global south. and in some ways, i think it's a consequence. it's position is going to further inflamed the tensions that we see out there to tween the west. the united states on the one hand, china on the other. a truly, i want to play a sound clip for you from secretary of state, tony blinking. let's listen. keep water, electricity for children, for the elderly, for the sick. these are president pollutants,

new targets. he's heading them hard. this brutalization of ukraine's people is barbaric. so i'm just sort of interested in one the hypocrisy of the moment, you know, talking about the same device as being used to turn something off and are not being able to talk about with regard to israel and then trying to help the other side. why the response has been so pathetically small? well, you know, i think that the united states has made clear from the beginning that it has not. it is best to get the border crossing to egypt open to get a flowing has been discussing with israel howard prosecute to this war. as we were speaking about a few minutes ago, mr. biden said very clearly, don't mistake the same. don't make the same mistakes. we did don't be blinded by rage. so i think this is a, a work in progress. but given that the, the,

the attacks on october 7 were over the top were atrocities. now you have women and children, grandmothers kidnapped, be out of hostage in gaza. i think one can understand to some extent, israel rage and israel's response, but i do think that there is a middle ground here. and that involves a careful but strong military operation against a mosque leadership against a mock fighters against the tunnels, the weapons depos width at the same time, efforts to protect civilians to get little fuel water medicine into gaza. so as to diminish and minimize the humanitarian emergency, there is an evidently unfolding when how boss decides to use its own power. spivey and brethren as human shields. i guess my question to you is about the tyranny of

a nurse. yeah. and the vested interest, the build up, the don't want to see progress on these, you know, fragile geostrategic hot points. is that part of the game we have to accept it. we're always going to have certain nodes in the world to continually erupt like this as well, you know, i, as my friend and colleague richard hosp squared a few days ago in the middle east, things get worse before they get worse. uh and i think the message here is trying to build peace in the region, trying to get rock pro small between longstanding adversaries. it is very difficult business. i take my hat off to president obama, or trying to reset the relationship with russia for attempting to decrease the animosity with places like it wrong in cuba. and he did to some extent

succeeded to some extent he didn't succeed. but i do say we have to keep try and steve, we know from history, that piece does break that. right. the french and the germans were killing each other for centuries. and you now drive from france to germany, and you see no border crossings. the united states has a relationship with its neighbors, in which the prospect of war is on thinkable, not in the realm of the possible pockets of peace do whatever. and so i think when it comes to the relationship between israelis and palestinians, when it comes to the relationship of the united states and china, we have to keep trying to push things in a positive direction. we know from history, the default position in international politics is competition is rivalry.

in some cases is our driver. but we also know from history we met when you work hard enough. you can overcome. that is an admirable, a feeling that things are slipping away. this is one of those moments doesn't historical inflection points that we are. i think we could go either way. we could see the 21st century slip toward geopolitical competition, d globalization of liberal populism. where we could look at the moment that we're in now and push the candle in back in the right direction. at this point, i think it's too soon to tell which way we're going to be here. present in finance, national security advisor, jake sullivan. just publish the $7000.00 word article in foreign affairs and it's focusing on the future of the world and america's place in it. one of the lines of, of many uh, is that the world is becoming more contested in the united states. cannot talk only

with those who share its vision or values. and it made me wonder whether or not as you sort of look at what jake sullivan is trying to communicate, is the same moment of realism, where americans finally beginning to understand the limits of its power and capabilities that is in, in fact, going to begin talking with other players, with, with which it may not get along the way because i haven't seen that as part of the, of the, by the administration's direction. certainly not the trump administration, but wonder whether you think the limits on american power are finally beginning to shape the way we think about what we can do in the world. well, you know, i would start by quoting the 1st sentence in, in jake's very interesting article. and that 1st sentence was not thinking international politics is inevitable. and i would take issue with that analysis because i think some things are inevitable. number one, change in the distribution of power, right?

we go back to the 1700 and we saw how early world share from the east to the west. and europe in north america together, had been at the top of the heat leading the pack for quite some time. we now see our beginning to shift from west to east and from work this out. that's going to make the world more difficult and we're unpredictable. more on certain the united states is not going to be able to call the shots in the same way that it used to. we're going to have to get used to a multi polar world. we're gonna have to get used to. pearl isn't an ideological diversity because that's the world that we're headed toward. that seems to need to be inevitable. that haven't been said. i would agree with j that there's a lot of room for tainting that world and channeling a more di, centered world in

a positive direction. but it will take working across to you with the ideological dividing lines. we now live steve in a world that is working independent in global life than ever before. many of the challenges that we need to face of both as a country and as international citizens require broad based global cooperation. and that means working with the countries with whom we may not share the same principles on the same values. i think the 5 administration got off to a more ideal logic and start event was probably the advisable democracy versus autocracy with us or against us. now i think it's real life that it needs a more pragmatic, a more practical approach. but i do think that behind the scenes, the united states has been reaching out to china. we've seen

a steady set of efforts for the cabinet officials to head to china. jake sullivan has twice and the recent past met with the chinese leadership. i think there's a sense that we don't want to go down the rabbit full of a new cold war. let's see if we can't find ways of working with the chinese to meet global challenges, even if we may disagree with them about human rights, about democracy, and even about 2 of little issues in these days. let me just ask you finally in political science, we learned about predicting foreign policy, the continuity, typically a policies from one administration to the next administration, regardless of political party. but it seems like that world is gone. and particularly when you look at a country like a ron, and if you're basically gonna say in your calculation that we should sit down and talk to a ron, we've had a zigzag and those policies do you think as you look at the fuel situation in

america, right now, which is part of that topsy turvy dimension that you started with at the beginning . do you suspect that we're not going to have continuity in american foreign policy any longer that we're going to continue to see zigzags, and instability. and the way we approach and engage the world as well. so you know, the, this zigzag. yeah. and a rabbit state crap that you're referring to is a if you go back to the cold, we're really beginning with at the r. 1941, pearl harbor, democrats and republicans came together and there was a role are ideologically sensors, bi partisan compact that stood behind a steady brand of american state craft. those days are gone, mainly because we've seen the hollowing out of the political center in the united states. and as a consequence, when power changes hands in washington from democrats, republicans, you get wild swings in foreign policy. i think that it is likely to continue

depending upon who wins the next election, simply because there is a fundamental ideological cleavage along partisan lies about america's role in the world. for me, i think the key here is rebuilding the american political center from the ground strengths in the united states starts at home. and i think the key to our future, both our domestic future and our ability to play a purposeful and effective international role is rebuilding bipartisanship. rebuild the consensus that is going to take getting merrick and working americans back up of your fee. well, we'll have to end it. they are georgetown university professor charles captain senior fellow at the council on foreign relations. thank you so much for joining us today. steve. it's been my pleasure to join. so what's the bottom line beneath all

this analysis, global strategy and us support for israel and ukraine and russia testing the west and the role of non state actors beneath all of that are real people and real families. one of our colleagues here at alex is here of the bureau chief and cause it just last for members of his family after and his really airstrikes hit. what is really official said was terrorist interest structure. while dr. goose family had already fled more than gaza, as he has really had worn people to do. but they were killed any way after fleeing south. this is real while has lost most of his family and there are thousands of other innocent people on both sides of this conflict who lost their families this month. yes, we should be thinking through policies and global crises and asking you how we got here. but sometimes it's just time to give our sincere condolences to those who have just lost loved ones and that's the bottom line.

as the world gaza escalate to 0 is correspondence on the glass injuries. most of them are 2320 trucks are just so little compared to this amount of damage. there are no fuel supplies, which makes it hard for hospital to sustain itself. more than a 1000 people have been detained across the of you. 5 west bags of holes is caving to know. are some really searching based on what killed people they are completely given off on any international efforts to solve the as well as actions. people have cause award to live, stay with us, but then they just depend on to 0. power defines how, wow, we live here, we make the rules, not the people empower, investigate, exposed, and question the youth and abuse of power around the go on out just there are so

many politicians want to be the republican party is candidate for to any stand a chance it gets donald trump, if our planet is burning and we're running out of time, why aren't we doing more to deal with climate change? our american politics just getting to your wife, intuit screen for most americans. for quizzical look us part of the bottom line. we understand the differences between subconscious across the lounge. you take it out here to bring you the news and current to fast the tv. the challenges there works out of their existence, its load ship as a principal present. and as a correspondence with the brakes and the story we want to hear from those people who was normally not get that voices heard on the international news channels. one david top. if i proud all was when we covered the, the fullness quake of 2015,

at the terrible match, all the facts and the story that needed to be told from the hall. so the effect of diarrhea to be then to tell the people story was very important at the time the face ground battles in the north and south of gauze that these ran the armies as, as now surrounded kansas city. the other one down in jordan, this is down to 0 life and so he said coming up record you come. so you and run school and residential neighborhoods in gauze continued to be bombarded by these right in the district the.