as well as you can see behind may, there is a large number of people who are marketing. do i get some a pod rate on the tail end of this particular riley because of all the traffic john data. but slow enough people are driving data of god, gregory marking injury style, but did you, did you already reported a bunch have taken all regard to the measures to try to contain the crowd and get it done violence. but that, that it came up back focused on has tremendous support in the fun job prover. instead of being able to do much stuff, tens of thousands of people earlier. also, when they were protesting against a caricature in 2022 of the only profit vomit. and that was the invented ready to do when there weren't that the expansion of the frames and back to the relative flight fargo. ron, so to did it coming out in large numbers from across the country that they didn't

get that back. plug it done, as i mentioned in base, strong and popular amongst ordinary people. and they have caused me to be showing this strain by protesting against what is going on in god's uh android store in the occupies westbank off or so. so it's a great to be and particularly how many people they'll be able to bring together enough because they've been demanding that they need the stomach way to do more by action rather than words. we're going to see how loud this profession is going to be. and of course, there is an expectation that tens of thousands of people are going to go now. come on, i understand that the big part is done does have a controversial history and practice done. what is the security like there? a, i'm just a very quick on, so please if you chose come off when they yeah, that's a good they pointed up. got that all going very large numbers the car door and all

direct going and it's not my boss. bridge house, just a different project won't play the us embassy in 2 days. saw him and, and now they're sensitive buildings. and what state police would be trying to do is to rent that god from getting anywhere close to that showing that brought up repairs to read this uh this particular precision redid guess and badge on top i did did all that. this may be a priest for rodney, i tried to look so very good going to be and not sure, because all the major religious parties have been protesting by bringing out tens of thousands of people against what's happening and god come all. thank you very much indeed. come all high to talking to us from islam a but not as always. our website, all just need a dog comes, got the latest on all our top stories in jobs. israel's been intensified and the tax on the screen, some water, reservoirs, bakeries and hospitals stay with us on the

a. we look at the world's top business storage, from global markets to economies, and a small business sales force and included security around the world of history or something that the international community your view should be doing to understand how it affects counting the cost on o g 0 hi, i'm steve clements and i have a question. is real, is intensifying, it's a tax and the gaza strip and ruling out a ceasefire. but at what cost and where does the palestine israel issue go from here? let's get to the bottom line. the israel's military response to how mazda is attack last month shows no sign of ending any time soon. more than $8500.00 palestinians have now been killed and more than half of the gaza strips population has been displaced since october 7th when. how mosque broke through the fence surrounding the gaza strip and killing hundreds

of his release and taking more than 200 captives as hostage is really forces have devastated the gaza strip by here by sea and by land for weeks and said they will quote, continue and intensify until how mazda is eliminated. the united nation says that the humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding before our eyes, and palestinian hospitals are collapsing due to fuel shortages. meanwhile, american president joe biden to staunch the defending israel and calling civilian deaths. quote, the price of waging war and the conflict has gone global, with its effects being felt everywhere from soccer clubs to university campuses. so where does it go from here? today we're talking with nico, paulette a former is really soldier who now advocates for peace and he's the author of the general son journey. ivan is really in palestine mutual. thank you so much for joining us today. there is widespread support across the is really political spectrum for current actions. you're a real stand out. tell us how you see things at this moment. to thank you for

having me. i want to start out by saying that there was no how much their attack on october, the 7th of student fighters came out of the guys a strip one of the most depressed and 4 places on the face of the er, um and uh, after you know, decades and decades of, of suffering, violence and brutality. not just a savage rate at the hands of israel, and a cruel uh and unreasonable, i need be less uh, a siege on the uh, on the guys district. they came out and they managed to uh, almost take over the, you know, half of half of what, what does the israel today and to paralyze the state of israel for weeks. and so that i, that is, that is, i believe, a more, a more accurate description of what took place. the state of israel was caught off guard is really military as been once again shown to be nothing more than a paper tiger. and now, because like, you know, like

a gangster that's been humiliated, they're taking their vengeance on innocent civilians killing, you know, thousands upon thousands of civilians. um only for the sake of revenge, there's no strategy here. there's no real uh, there's no real understanding of how to solve. there's no, there's no real intense to protect these rarely sort of states to provide safety. it's not a question of self defense, the question of brutality and revenge, because it was really aided and now they need to improve applying. so they're killing as many as soon as possible, which by the way, is not stop the talk to your fighters from continuing to fight. and you know, the, they, they, they entered the ground forces just another day or 2 ago. and they've already got close to 10 or 12 is all the forces that have been uh, they have been killed, right. may i go i, i have to just jump in. i mean, i, i need to be clear. i see it very, very differently than you and this is an interview with you. but i also just want to say in terms of framing, you know, when i, i've been watching the israeli palestinian for relationship for

a long time. i feel like the underlying tektronix has had been wrapped in a whole series of grievances and injustices. it's very hard for me to hear someone say these are freedom fighters, given the horror of what we saw on october 7th. there needs to be. this is part of a, of a campaigns always paid to boston is as, as a wild, you know, uncivilized mob that will be had children and rape like women. none of that is true and many of the hundreds of his relatives that were killed were apparently now, according to his rarely testimony, according to the testimony of his rights who are on site. many of these relatives were killed or killed by israeli fire, by his really, by the israeli military itself. so we don't really know how many were killed if any, by the palestinian fighters accidentally headed. you know, you know, of course, you know, heard of children killing children is a terrible thing. but i want to point out here that when israel drops tons of bonds on residential neighborhoods, you know, what do, what do we, what do you think happens to the children inside these homes?

are they not be headed? are they not? you know, this is about their little bodies destroyed. they're not die from the gas in the fumes in the fire. and not to mention yesterday we heard from dr. met skilled or that there are over 2000 testing in children and guys are missing. and you know, missing means missing that there is somewhere in the rubble and nobody can reach the. so that's even worse than the ones that have been killed. so the savagery here is not what we see on the palestinian side. the stories of savagery that will prevent perpetuate in the beginning were proven to be lies. we have seen a consistent, a consistent policy of savagery and murder of civilians. not to mention be heading up children if you want to talk about that. i don't want to get to descriptive here . what happens with a foster, as and so on when it falls on and the small bodies of children. and we've seen this going on for decades, and these are the savages didn't start on october, the 7th, it's been going on for a very long time. so i think that it, in my opinion, at least as is a much more accurate description of what took place. we're gonna agree to disagree

and that, but i am interested in a conversation that has uh, begun to, you know, show, show some sprouts in washington and it, and it worries me a little bit it's, it's really about the day after what is the future of, gosh, it'll look like what is the future palestine looked like, what has to be there? i've been asking what about the day before this happened because this was largely ignored conflict where people were not moving with ambition and purpose to figure out how the palestinian is really a situation could lead to something credible in solving when it came to a piece and the rights of palestinian. so you know, that was the day before. let me, let me ask you how you measure what the day after needs to look like in terms of after this conflict, given the fact that there was so much disturbing it under the rug the day before october 7th? yes, i, i think you're right. this is the moment right now and i think nothing. i think this is an opportunity,

is all the pain and suffering in the heart of that is taking place in gaza. this is definitely an opportunity to grab the bull by the horns and to make real political demands real, to fight fights or real political games, or to achieve real political games for the policy it ends once and for all. so that this does not happen again. if we're talking about tomorrow, we want to prevent this from happening again and you write this up. the fact that this was ignored and some of what people expected is riley is particularly expected . they can go on living like this while people, millions of college students are being, you know, living under these horrific conditions. there's a few kilometers away, is not realistic. so what are we looking at? i believe it all depends on what kinda negotiations are going to take place. the problem is that the student issue is an orphan. there is no real policy and there is no organization. there are no countries that are supporting the policy and cause for freedom and justice. and so what needs to happen now is there needs to be a demand, and that's as far as these fires, these fire is going to happen when the sides decide to stop fighting. what needs to

be demanded right now is an absolute immediate and it to the see john, guys up an absolute unconditional release. all posted in political prisoners. and the demand for one person, one vote elections over all of the store of palestine to create a retail. the mark, democratic state all over is or palestine, nothing less than this. the past is approve of 2 things. number one, they are absolutely capable of characterizing the state of israel. and once again, i'll say a handful of fighters from one of the poorest, most oppressed places in the world, managed to paralyze the state of israel completely for, for, for a very long time. and the 2nd thing is the policies are made enormous are making enormous sacrifices once again. and so both of these things i think are deserving of upstairs attention and nothing less than an absolute final political solution in palestine is required at this point of the united states. mico is supporting israel's military campaign for the moment. and it is also saying it will not call

for the ceasefire. just as a prime minister. netanyahu is said he, he will not engage in a ceasefire right now. and we are in the united states instead pushing humanitarian support. how do you see this us role and how do you see that humanitarian needs right now and how they might be better achieved? well once again, i mean this, i started with united states, united states have been complicit in the, and israel's genocide policies for a very long time. this is not you. they've been supporting it with arms and money and political a cover. so this is again, there's nothing new only the right now the, the a tax is something much more savage than it's ever been before. um, again, i'll say what needs to be immediately demanded as an end, immediate unconditional. and to see john gaza. an immediate to you support humanitarian medical support for the palestinians in, in, in every way that, that, that, that, that is needed. and that means rebuilding hospitals. that means providing them all

the medical needs that are required. rebuilding homes or buildings, you know, creating a, a reality that all students and guys are able to live a normal life, like free people anywhere else, you know, 30 trucks or 20 trucks or 50 trucks or a 100 trucks and not going to solve the problem. you know, policy is the world has turned off students into beggars, and that's not to do any fault or they're all, you know, they're turning policies are if you're g as in, into bigger as costing in need freedom. the conversation should be, how do we, and this slaughter of the savagery by the state of israel that's been going on for 75 years. granted their ups and downs in the savagery. but this is, you know, right, it's been savaging for 75 years. nothing less. how do we ended and demand and bring forward a real solution, a real just solution. so that is rosenthal. students can live in peace and i'll say one more thing on the issue a piece. if we support the policy need to call for justice and freedom,

israelis and palestinians will be able to live in peace and raise their children and have a future. if we support israel anyone's supports, israel is actually supporting the fight against justice, the fight against these. so how do you actuate that in a, in a credible way? are there is really, is out there that, that believe what you believe and how do you bring them along. when i look at is really politics. you know, over the last 3 decades, particularly with probably a prime minister netanyahu, it is moved, not left, but it's move more and more right, including in the, the current government. so how do you take some of the ideas that you're sharing today and say, well this is a very different formulation, but are there is really, is out there. is there any credible path politically to what you're suggesting? now, a look. i don't think it likes in south africa, particularly keen on ending apartheid. but then there was a,

there were severe sanctions. there were, there was a boy called again, south africa. um there were dies just the stairs. that aspect from south africa eventually. and be like a partner in south africa was on his knees. that is precisely what needs to happen with his role is no privilege, society, or present society or oppressive regime is ever left willingly they have to be forced out. and so once again, what needs to be demand is immediate sanctions against the state of israel is relative diplomats just like we've seen with the columbia, we've seen this now also, i believe with a couple of other of the states and latin america. and i'm sure there's going to be a trend. the diplomats. uh there was really emissions are closing there. that diplomats are being sent home. there should be, um, you know, the complete, you know, the boy thought it was really teams and, and in the lympics and, you know, and any sporting events. and then the academic arena, diplomatic arena, so on the state of israel, as we know, has been charged by amnesty international to be to be the cues of the crime of

apartheid for 75 years. and as we know, the kind of apartheid is a crime against humanity. the, the, the amnesty report has some important recommendations that includes sanctions and include, you know, diplomatic and political of actions against the state of israel. that will bring it to the point where they have no choice. i don't believe is rather going to do this willing way. they don't need to do this willingly that they need to be forced to, to allow for a real political solution for real freedom and liberty. and again, understanding of that at the end of the day, at the end of the day, a just solution to the palestinian uh for the boston. and people will benefit as rallies as well. because again, it's not about these rallies versus the palestinians. it's israel against these israel again, suggest to lucian, israel again, straight up. you're one of the questions i have is about the rage belt after

a terror attack, and i, and i know that you see it differently, but um, you know what i sort of saw 911 happened and i saw the united states react, and joe biden said, we over reacted we acted in blind rage and he encouraged his real not to be blinded by the same kind of rage that in america is case let it down the wrong wrong direction and is real again after what it solves the horror on its borders along gaza, 1200 people that we now have around 200 people held hostage by home. us. how do you, in this moment, if you were to advise the government, if you had that opportunity, would you navigate this moment because there is just rage across is really society about what happened to them as well as ranges is, is, is completely i, i'm just the fine, you know, if anybody should be outraged, it's the rest of the world that should be raised. so should be range around the world against the printer, the palestinians and guys gets at austin and we're holding is really prisons

against the fact that all students are denied water, not only and god is about throughout all the palestine. is the fact that as well as the killing palestinians in the west bank, wholesale the bank by east settlers and soldiers and so on. so i mean, if there's any customer range, i believe the range should be on the other side. and if we want to talk about terrorism, and again, i'll to, i'll argue on that to and once again, dropping a one time bomb on the building and killing civilians is, is an act of terrorism. when out of $200.00 people and full of fighters come out in order to take hostages in order to bring about the release of political prisoners, i don't believe that that is an act of terrorism. and regardless of how you frame it, so what you call it, i don't know what kind of expectations people had the tossing is, will not engage in some sort of arm resistance being how they treated the way they have them being killed and being, you know, the horrors, i won't get into the harvest, but they've been going on for 75 years. and that well documented to expect the

postings will not engage in some form of our existence is absolutely ludicrous. this is, this is, this is and of course according to international lights, it's perfectly legitimate. if we're talking about acts of terrorism over the last 75 years. and actually i will talk about crimes against humanity. but jeff far west is what has been engaged, not only in terrorism is what has been engaged in crimes against humanity. specifically, ethnic cleansing, specifically the kind of a part i as has been, like i said, documented by the amnesty international reports. which for some reason people are, you know, very comfortably ignoring and i will add it one step further and say as well as actually in being engaged in the crime of genocide or please the genocide of policies at least. so this is far worse than terrorism and i think that again dropping a one time bomb not to mention tens of hundreds of tons of bonds is what has been doing on this civilian population and a particular population. let us never had a military force. boston is, or never had an army, they've never had

a tank. so the claims of that is somehow self defensive search. that is an act of terrorism. when people who are oppressed, come rise, and stand up, even if they do so, holding arms that i reject completely the notion of that is about terrorism. let me ask you about the cast of characters that have long been involved in, in israel palestine affairs. what about turkey, china, other players in the world becoming part of that the day after equation? that's a good question. i mean, like i said earlier, palestine is an officer of the issue as an arson, and what happened over the last of 3 years. so decades of all these countries that were traditionally supportive of the boston and cause the bricks alliance. for example, most of the countries within the bricks alliance and others are now all doing business with israel. they're all doing trade with israel. they're all buying weapons with because you know, you know, africa and it was traditionally a continental continental corner of the prostate and cause are now, you know,

is it has more than 40 diplomatic visions and, and is pushing to become a part or decent observer in the african union and they're being allowed to do this . and of course that is a very serious problem. i think it's less important who the players are and more important with the content is people need to understand the world needs to understand. and i think we're seeing this now on the streets when we're seeing all these, you know, massive protests and the streets. and the costs are just as the calls for justice, right. clear, you can either have justice or you can have the state of israel, state of israel, my, these are the people, the state of israel needs to go to the state of israel, isn't our parts i have state, it needs to be replaced with a free democratic state of palestine, you know, free palestine free democratic talestine on all distort palestine. one person, one vote elections and we have, you know, we've seen this happen. we have a roadmap, we've seen, you know, specialist except tauriel and, and apartheid regime in south africa fall and be replaced by the by,

by democratic governments by democracies. so we've seen it happen many times before and we need to follow the same. the roadmap is there's nothing that needs to be is reinvented here. the issue is nobody is willing to stand up and say we, the state of israel is precisely the problem. it's not an occupation. it's not, there's, it's not the other. it's the state of israel. it's an apartheid state. it is the obstacle to peace. it is the obstacle to justice. now ask them members of the media as voters, we need to speak up and we need to make it clear to our elected officials. you cannot stand up and support zionism because on. ism is racism. it's a racist ideology. and we demand no tolerance, the racism as consumers of other media when we see a lot of, you know, all the big names out there in the, in the corporate media. um, you know, idolizing that's in, you know, idolizing the state of this deal. we need to demand that they stop. right now we need to the manager, they stop. this is on acceptable to allow

a job in our interview with benjamin. it's any our not challenge him on the fact that he's murdering innocent civilians. all of his, you know, rhetoric about his being 911 and the holocaust is completely completely, you know, mythical. not to say, you know, uh, an up see lie. right? it's really good to hear what they're saying about what happened on october. the 7th, in terms of you know, their perspective as early as the government of israel failed to defend its own citizen. the state of israel has been failing to defend all the people that governs, which means you go with his relatives and tossed it in. and it's time for a different political perspective. it's time for a real free palestine. it's fine to dismantle the apartheid state. right. and replace it the freedom craddick palestine. let me ask you a final question. i'm interested in what's happening in the united states and your perspective of that. i know you're in jordan right now, but if you look at the broad cross section of politics and america democrats on the

whole, and republicans support uh, bb, netanyahu support israel in this moment of crisis. but if you look at layer beneath that, jo biden's, popularity has decreased 11 points among democrats. you have protest around american colleges and universities that are basically supporting the policy and cause they are, they are say, it sounds a lot like you from abroad. does america look different and less and more divided than you've seen in the past? because you've been out this for a long time, but you see greater divisions, you see a soul searching in the united states over these issues that you might not have seen before. what i'd say in the united states and what i've been sitting in europe a project, you know, all over europe actually is something very interesting. there is the growing is a, there's a growing, popular support for the cause of justice in palestine and fees and palestine and live ration for cost in it. however, we see that the governments like in the us in the,

okay and throttle in throughout europe are all standing with israel. and there's a massive gap between the popular support and the demand of the constituents and the elected officials. and somehow the demand for free palestine, the demand to stand with palestine is not being heard in the halls of power. and i've seen that as a failure of us as constituents of failure are failure as motors that this important message is not getting through that they are, they're ignoring our calls. they are ignoring our demands and going on with the support for israel that i think we need to regroup. part of it is because, like i said, there's no parent, there's no organizational structure that supports the policy and cause and there's no real estate today that supports the cost, any cost. so we as citizens, we as constituents, must make it clear to our elected officials, that this will no longer stand. there will no longer be any tolerance for politicians. suppose israel, but we'll have to leave it. there me go, pell. it is rarely american peace activist and author. thank you so much for being

with us today. absolutely, thank you. so what's the bottom line? history shows at every big jump forward in peace separates between palestinian and israeli leaders happened after violent clashes were many people died. but was this because each side realized death and destruction is futile? no, that's just not how the world works. it was because the palestine is real. conflict became strategically consequential when it grows and scale, it drags great powers into direct conflict, potentially, palestinians. it is released can never reach a stable, long term solution on their own. in my view. and i used to really hate that worn out phrase, the president brock obama and his secretary of state. john kerry would say, we can't one piece more than they do. the truth is the exact opposite. if americans and europeans and maybe the church and the chinese and other stakeholders find a way to be better and more fear brokers, maybe they can compel piece. otherwise,

western powers can keep turning a blind eye to this conflict. only forced to blast his way back into the world, the consciousness again and again and again. and that's the bottom line. the on the bench on fold, we covered every angle of these waiting. why would is real vent crossing is really deputy foreign minister. he thinks that the rules of the game has changed . i'm on israel steps is for me that he will certainly look at the lease of more of these captives. what you might have to events, are you telling me view is faulty a you and experts on bias in wrong. we have to do is look at the un schools in gaza . hold on 3 weeks while you're looking up. i'm. i am hearing something right over our heads. stay close to the story without you 0. it is murder.

when you throw a fire bomb into someone's house, that is significant in numbers the insignificant, ideologically, that is significant, even as a crime getting very significant by dictating the governments in the fact of policy that was shown up, can terms of the radicalized div series on our 20, a house on this structure was actually destroyed in 2003. and the reason for that is that far a honeyed was actually convicted and sentenced to 7 live sentences by his pods and the killing of his right and soldiers. what these right is, this is a came in here, and this now very small hole actually represents a nightmare for this 5,

we let me just show you these rand. he's actually drilled into the wall. now, why did they do that? that testing the thickness of the walls, so they know what equipment to use when they come to demolish this house. and the family are telling us, there was no reason for these raise to come in to that house at this time. right now, they simply don't know why these ladies one to 2 motors. now this house could be demolished in the next 2 hours and the next 2 weeks. they simply don't know when that demolition is going to come. the thing is i pushing the

one to blow by the perspectives, the, [000:00:00;00] the hello on top of the cry. this has been use our line from doha, coming up in the next 60 minutes searching for survivors. israel strikes oh my god, see refugee camp in central kansas killing at least 47 palestinians,

many more buried under the problem is rarely false as carry out rides in the onto