losing the section, it's a race against trying to find people still with seeing this journalism and in depth coverage to 0 is teams on the ground when you close to the cost of the story is rather sort of the one point. 1000000 palestinians living in northern goza to leave the homes. relentless plumbing is flattened into neighborhoods with people killed by his rating strikes while fleeing to israel's actions are quite to estimate cleansing. this is inside stored the hello that on james bays, in times of peace telling one point. 1000000 people to leave homes immediately might be imagined in response to a natural this almost like a synonymy or a volcanic eruption. instead,

think of such an evacuation order in time of war and one of the most densely populated areas on us. that's the reality of gone. so today, those who say risk death. but that's also being the fate of some of those who follow the order to flee. hundreds of palestinians have been killed by his ready gun, the fall of buttons as they headed south. these ran the army, such as acting in self defense, trying to destroy him. so what's the legal status of israel's actions in northern garza? does it amount to ethnic cleansing? is it a war crime? we're discussing all of this with our panel of guest shortly. but 1st, this report from alexandra buys barely a week into the war. these really military issued an unprecedented evacuation order . 1.1000000 palestinians in northern gaza must leave their homes or face the consequences. thousands of leaflets rained down from the sky, saying gaza is now a battlefield vac right now and move south. tens of thousands of

palestinians clubs by car on foot by any means they could find. but for those and the most densely populated area of the strip, which includes guides of city and the jamalia and al shot, the refugee camps, there was nowhere to go. the borders are closed, you and shelters are full. israel had promised safe passage south, but that same day an air strike killed 70 palestinians on slot a dean road. the main highway making the north and south of the besieged territory . do you instead evacuating was an impossible demand? the w h. o called it, a death sentence was moving severely you people and remember many of those children and the severely people who is injuries mean their only chances of survival is a, is a being on the live support such as mechanical ventilator. so moving those people is

that that center is really has repeated the order multiple times, but thousands of palestinians remain in northern gaza, cut off by the armies ground invasion and suffering under the relentless bombing campaigns. one analysis suggests, is really there straits of damaged or destroyed nearly a quarter of all buildings. their entire neighborhoods are raised to the ground. this is the largest number. so policy, anything else are ever being ordered to uh, to the case scenario. even others like the n r c, they don't region richard g council has talked of it as warrant against the risk. all the you money, tare and ethnic cleansing is un says more than half of guys. this population has been displaced. many pushed into dangers living conditions near the border with egypt. but for every palestinian forest out of northern garza, there are more who refuse to leave their homes and their land. afraid that if they

do, it will mean permanent exile alexander buyers for inside story. the well that's bringing a puddle of gas to discuss all this. now in montreal we have moved and robina, a co editor of general leah, an online news website. he's also a known resident fellow at the center for conflict and humanitarian studies and published on the on a bhutto, a human rights lawyer inform a spokeswoman for the palestine liberation organization. i'm in london, jeffrey robinson, a human rights barrister, and the founder of dowdy street chambers. one of the largest human rights legal practices in europe is also the also of crimes against humanity, a most distinguished panel. thank you very much for joining us here on the inside story on how to 0. so we'll discuss all this in detail into mine, but i want to go round. all 3 of you start with you deanna. what we're seeing right now, moving people forcing people to move um,

ordering them to move in gaza. and your view is this ethnic cleansing? yes, because it cannot be separated from the broader is really plans of trying to get rid of palestinians from the gaza strip to have them flayed to design. i move in. is it ethnic cleansing? yes. and less important than my opinion is a consensus among is really military and political leaders that they would like to get rid of the entire population of because of strep. they've been explicit about this. okay, we had in our report at the beginning another one who agrees this that's an exciting thing is the special ruffle to francesca albanese. so geoffrey robertson is this ethnic cleansing. it's as a matter. busy bill it is way over, i feel wrongly is the all too high of guys, but it. busy full i have. busy i met and terry and judy too old origin says guys that it may have for direct them to move to

a safe place if and only yes the south part the goes is say, read me right and claim that is, but israel must have a ceasefire in relation to south of goes up. so to be clear, is it ethnic cleansing then your saying it? well i know to be fiction that is not appropriate. it seems to me a question of whether it's a war cry. okay, well let's, let's look at the details of exactly what israel's been doing and we can examine this in more detail. what's the military? i notice now, believe that israel probably is already divided garza into and may well have encircled garza city. but clearly want to move people out of garza city. now move move in. would you agree with that? yeah, so night i think it's important also to put this in historical context, not only is more than 75 percent of the population of the gaza strip. refugees who

are ethnically cleansed from their homes and townsend villages in 1948. but israel has since the early 19 fifties had an obsession with what it calls sending out the population of the gaza strip. and the cleansing the knowledge of the gaza strip to sign i, to libya, to iraq, to elsewhere. that has been the subject of numerous is really proposals over the decades also after it occupied this territory. 1967, what we've seen in the past month is, is really leaders almost to a man making various proposals and insisting that one result of this latest on the side of the gaza strip should be the removal of the majority. if not all of its population out of the gaza strip either into the junction side i or as recommended this morning, barton is really cabinet administered to ireland. so it's indisputable. in my view that israel has been explicit agenda of the expulsion of the population of the gaza

strip to outside the country. whether that succeeds or not is of course an entirely different question. the i know we've had these orders coming from the israeli government and these ready military, the 1st one was on the 12th of october, quite amazingly. then they said people had just 24 hours to move south. yes. and this has been going non stop and the problem of course, is that people then move south and then while they're in the south, they're being bombed and there is no safe space anywhere in the gaza strip. now it's also important to bear in mind that in the south, it's not just a question of people moving south, which they can't do. there is no fuel, there's no water, there's no electricity. and of course there's no food. but, but even when they move south, there aren't any safe spaces. there's no infrastructure there to absorb the people who are flu. so instead we've seen the way that as well as the top is that it's attack the norm. it's attacked the center of the gaza strip and of course it's

attacked the south. and this is why these claims of them telling people to move south for their own safety. our file is what they're doing is they're creating a system of chaos where people feel there is no place that is safe. and then they're going to put pressure on egypt to open up the roof rack border. so the past and has been fully into the sign i've been and so inside jordan, it's like egypt, excuse me, where are they? will there remain forever this, this is not anything new. as mine has already said, this has been planned. these had the plan, is it for a long time. and just last week it was leaked and it's really document was released exactly describing the very thing that we're seeing right now which is create this massive chaos so that people flee to this out. and then from the south they get pushed into into egypt. jeffrey, i mean there are people i ever since that 1st order never been subsequent orders including the supposedly opening humanitarian car doors in recent days were for

a period of hours in the afternoon in gauze the time. but of course, there are some people who comp move there are patients in hospitals that are all parents with children that are all the elderly, the disabled being from those israel still have a responsibility to protect those people, even though they've ordered people to move. it does, it is a very clear humanitarian responsibility as all to by our, which are a treat. uh, it can hold uh, people to move to their n. c e a. it's a 10 roof, and those patients in the hospital comp and be with taking them or inviting them to move to a safe place. and it seems to be that says, owners is ray, the ray, just go on and south of that using the office, a crate bear pull on less than the to the institute,

which is sci fi, hurried to the skin with addition to so does uh, a big competing a will prime by ordering the transport all decisions. this is to say place its deanna. we've seen attacks on schools and hospitals throughout list, but in recent hours we've seen a tax on a recent days. the out she for hospital, the all codes hospital, the nasa childrens hospital, and now these are not just places where people are treated urgently need treatment and pick doctors are working and by desperate conditions to treat them the rules. so prices are st. tree and protection. i think is i could find the out, could hospitalized one of 14000 people at sheltering in or around it. and now she for hospital 45000 people sheltering and it's vicinity. do you think is around this trying to send a deliberate message by attacking these places that know what is safe in order to intimidate people to move?

yes, and they've said as much of these really as have been carrying out a propaganda campaign. now for, for about 2 weeks now, indicating that they are going to hit hospitals that they're going to hit you in school, that they're going to hit churches, mosques and universities. they've done it all. and the reason that they're doing this is again, they want to send the message to palestinians that there is no safe space. the only place to say is if you flee to another country, and this is why they've been projecting that they're going to bomb these places. and then it turns out that they do both these places. and, and the problem of course, is that is that nobody is calling israel out for these very deliberate work kinds that they're carrying out where, where they've attacked so many hospitals, where they've killed medical staff in addition to targeting ambulances, in addition to targeting convoys of people who actually are fleeing to the south? this is because israel has been taught time and time again that it's above the law

. and the palestinians are somehow beneath the law. and this is where it has to stop to jeffrey if this is a deliberate is really tactic of trying to intimidate people to move by bombing, what should be the safe places? the hospitals, the ambulances, the schools is back to will crime. and you'll view where all the space of the ag is, but you haven't mentioned it, but he is making sure the new show them boss. busy the g is in the room, reprise the response for around the battery. good bye. have a mass on october the 7th. so whether it is a war crime, for example, bombing a refugee camp depending on the easiest through defense. now that depends on the proportionality, all the data huge compared to the legitimacy of being too good. it's really just

a minute for israel to close to a mass. but if the phone was away from the cab $2.00 to $1.00 have mass command, and at the same time, 50 of the innocent purse is then if a re, either for, for that or the question would be whether that use poor to q, okay, e and that's why, you know, let me just finish, okay, that's the question that the you and john jewelry about must done so of the law. so i might say no close each disproportionate to and so by a un. yeah. but you, but you are a distinguished legal mind if you were the judge right now looking at the evidence, do you think it's proportioned? that's jeffrey. well, i do each, but you just have to look at each on

a case by case basis, which is why it's necessary for is really target is to have legal advice before they press the button. and why is write a test to decide which was the may eventually about 2 or the facts as to whether they're entitled to take out the school. come back true damage with that. are you from this to. ready cheering, candace and people, and so that's the issue, but we'll have to be decided on the whole. we evidence on a case by case basis. yeah, you can say prime but facing is. ready used by lawyers on. ready the face of bait bombing a refugee tab at the hospital is a war cry, but it is a crime that is open to a defense and it will be up to 2 is really may be,

but this case will go before b i c, c. it may be doing there is read refuses to offer a implant b and used to comb. but one of these bombing is, will be and someone involved in them will take a holiday in europe and find the rest to be prosecuted. and then you may come before court and that kind of decision, whether these following was a boy to be a attack, the israel self with the to the 7 will have to meet you decide. okay, well that's for a cause of law and that may be a very, very long way off. uh, this is a television program, north dakota of little, but i'd like to bring in moving on this point. do you think israel's actions are proportionate? well i, i would agree that there needs to be a thorough investigation of each and every incident where more crimes are being

less than i would just point out for the record is real. since 1967, as a matter of policy has systematically refused to cooperate with each and every investigation that's lost and has in fact denied entry to the scene of the crime by any and all investigators. now i think another relevant point here, and that would be exhibit a is a, is rarely leaders from the president of the is really state all the way down since october 7th, have made a point of explicitly stating that as far as they are concerned, there is no distinction between palestinian civilians and combatants that as a matter of policy, they refused to make any distinction. so, you know, there is the circumstantial evidence, if you will, is already over whelming, because also of course is really action since october 7th, have confirmed the israel is refusing to make any distinction between combatants

and non combatants. um, just this morning, for example, we had is really cabinet minister recommending the use of a nuclear weapon against the guys this trip i should, i suspect he's going to be around really denounced and condemned to the was not for his proposal, but for reviewing the existence of and is really nuclear arsenal, that the west even in 2023 continues to insist that is real, doesn't have deanna you. you've heard jeffrey, i'm moving this view. what's, what's your view on this, on the, on the proportionality point to courtney to back up a little bit and say that it should have been maintaining a barbaric occupation over the gaza strip. now for 56 years and a barbaric action by ethnically cleansing posted in 75 years ago, a barbaric action that continues to this very day when it comes to the issue of bombing hospitals. there are red lines in international law,

and that is one of them. and to somehow claim that because it is really official claims that there's somebody there that it becomes a little, give them a target is false. this is a game, this isn't a video game. we get to run around and drop bombs on the heads of people. and just so happens to be that there are 471 other people who are stationed there. there are rules. and the problem is, is that nobody has ever tried to enforce them against israel. jeffrey, i mean we've had people who have headed south of either been buttons on the way south, hoping bones when they get south. there is something called the crime a per 50. i believe do you think that's a plot? explain what it is and do you think it applies where it goes back? many hundreds of be is. ready the 10 main using poisoned arrows of the light. so i encourage you simpler to say it, but it is a crime for which israel should be. it will be, it isn't arranged in the dock of either the i c c or something. give it to

being cool, but i would say eat the proportionality means to look at both sides. and it may be, i run it, but will have mass to release each cap. this is tough to choose. then that would say the op because is read will they not have the basis for. ready ready attracting hospitals that make for g cabs and the like we proportionality would be. ready we are the way so it did for him prove the all of these were a combined is being convicted was may not have that maybe to use of free hostages. deanna. i'm already in the battle ropes deanna. i'm a green statistics that i've noticed in the last 24 as the number of people killed

in garza. and just over 4 weeks now matches about the number of people who died in russia's war on ukraine that has gone on for 19 months about 10000 people killed in each war. i mean that the scale of killing by israel does that tell you something, i mean, in terms of the legal galaxy of a situation? yes, it tells me that israel is intent on committing genocide and on ethnic cleansing, and that nobody is stopping israel. the fact that when you look at these numbers, there are an additional about 2000 how students who are still trapped under the rubble, who are still yet accounted for. because there is no way to remove the rubble off of them. when you look at what it is that israel is bombing and how it is that it is bombing the gaza strip. it shows you that was exactly what they said. one of the is really officials from the beginning said,

our aim is not accuracy. our aim is maximal damage and this is exactly what we are seeing play itself out is that is real, is inflicting maximal damage. we have a so called left the in the is really cabinet man named benny gas who was the, who's the person who was running opposite nothing. yahoo, who's very proudly said in 2014, when there were no cap just by the way, that the, that he was proud to have bombed gaza back to the stone age. and this is what is realist priding itself on, is they are, they are pride in themselves on flattening, gaza. they've already indicated that it's going to be smaller in size and fewer and number. and so it shows you exactly what they are. so they're going to do is what they're doing. the problem is that nobody's listening. and instead of trying to bury their heads in the sam, jeffrey um and waiting for the policy, you're going to james, can i say the problem is the united nations. there is the difference between the

war crime is gluten and nathan, yahoo! bruce, irene discriminant. the killing civilians lose. and yet the united nations is absolutely health seats not fit for its purpose because the security council, this general assembly is mainly talking shop. the security council has this big power vito where russia the to is it really reverently space solution, but tries do get to cease fire in ukraine or negotiations. and of course america last week, v to a cease fire resolution in relation to gaza, southern us southern you and jeffrey jeffrey the u. n. is often the use miss what about the international criminal court because they came out with, with an arrest warrant for platinum. it pushing and praise heels is going to use the international criminal world to do the criminal product to attack it in this case. geoffrey, or do you think that is going to be

a great deal of pressure to stop the prosecute to cream con, bringing any d b i for in the process for you to gary and has so much all these hands would be great with a little russian war crimes, but he has said some of these others to use where and will no doubt have spoke reco this of what's being getting on the hopefully will issue some indictments against 10 messed lead is and is rarely legions in due course. so i. ready would maintain my, who could be i c, c made at least for the reco sick down the prosecutor shooting was the on the face of age. this. ready to be brought against both sides. piano, do you have hope in the international criminal court? it's supposed to be an independent legal body,

but it's gonna face pretty heavy. political head wins. is it not? remember the trump administration blocked the us visa, full. mr. collins, pre, the assessor 5 to been suit to if, if they ever try to bring charges against is right. the politicians are, isn't right in the leaders. we'd expect the same from the us on this route would be not, of course. so that's why people don't call the international criminal court as the international criminal court, as the international court to prosecute people from africa and uh, and put in. and that's it. if this really were an international criminal court, then we would have seen israel brought before the eyes to see many, many, many years ago. but instead, we've seen prosecutor after prosecutor either try to kick the can to another prosecutor or face retribution for trying to hold israel to account. once again, the problem is the united states and the united states has to end and the okay as taking the position that, that is real can, can do no wrong. and, and so it's not at all surprising to me that this is where we are at this stage in

the world. i am, however, very, very up lifted by the fact that, that the world is not convinced by israel and by this other gang of thugs. but instead, the world opinion is firmly on the side of halston and we don't need international courts to tell us what is right and wrong. what is moral and immoral? and we see that bombing a refugee camp binding hospital schools, masks, churches, and kids is illegal. and we don't need to be told that by international lawyers. what we see accountability moving, you know, and, and there's, there's a long track record. in this case, i think the role of the office of the prosecutor of the r c. c, has been absolutely shameless, particularly during the tenure of of cutting from practically indicted floods. the beer puts in the day the, the russian invasion of ukraine commenced. and now was probably preparing to issue some indictments against thomas leaders, and that'll be the end of it absolutely shameless. more broadly,

i think the us has, is rarely impunity as a strategic policy objective. i think the european countries has made clear or on qualified support for is really world crimes. and that there can and shouldn't be no accountability for his early work criminals. and i'm the only the only people who can successfully hold israel to account for its crimes or the policy names themselves and their reliable, i'd say to argue that the international system uh will do anything. no. thank you very much. marine. thank you to hold while panel moving rubini deanna bhutto, jeffrey robinson as well. extensive coverage of israel's war on cause. it continues here on out to 024 hours a day and you can find even more context and the mattresses on our website out as their adult calm. we'd like to hear from you to comments, suggestions, even your complaints can be posted on facebook page. that's facebook dot com,

forward slash a inside story, or you can send them to us on the former twitter. now x. well, you'll find us at a inside story from all the team here in doha. please stay safe. i'll see you soon . bye for now, the the craig zone extends much deep into the mountains and we've watched a search and rescue efforts to get underway. despite the risk, we're seeing residents returning to their homes in search of their belonging destruction here completely destroyed seats. minarette in cox, peer just goes to show again, the challenge of um, bringing heavy equipment into these areas. the army is deploying. it's had a couple of cities at this sense of the way it's a ready adult assigned to flying people. to trumps. under the rubble of

israel is still refusing to allow international journals into jobs to cover the carnage. they're all that they can report on 1st hand is the is really saw palestinian reporters of risking everything to get the story you 15 members and 5 killed. and then ask dr. sharon, what's happening on that? we don't cover the news. we cover the way the news is the listening post. according to the un, since the conflict broke out into done in april, more than 700000 people have fled the country. most of them have fled to chatter egypt, but now some are arriving here in libya. some people bring this food and more staff, but it's not enough for all the children. if the fighting continues in neighboring through that many fear that could possibly be an influx of refugees and possibly fighters crossing into libya, you image the yours is libya is not a safe place for refugees and asylum seekers. and that they try to give assistance

to those who are the most vulnerable much for the women and children here. that's just not enough. a israel alicia's, a new round of strikes on dogs. off after a day of bombings, the targeted several hospitals in the street. the you're watching up to 0, like from headquarters in del 5 is also coming up communications services and parts of gauze. what happened cause again, as israel keeps on, it's forming.