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hello that on james bays, in times of peace telling one point. 1000000 people to leave homes immediately might be imagined in response to a natural does almost like a synonymy or a volcanic eruption. instead, think of such an evacuation order in time of war and one of the most densely populated areas on us. that's the reality of gone. so today, those who say risk death. but that's also being the fate of some of those who follow the order to flee. hundreds of palestinians have been killed by his ready gun, the fall of buttons as they headed south. these ran the army, such as acting in self defense, trying to destroy him. so what's the legal status of israel's actions in northern garza? does it amount to ethnic cleansing? is it a war crime? we're discussing all of this with our panel of guest shortly. but 1st, this report from alexandra buys barely a week into the war. these really military issued an unprecedented evacuation order

. 1.1000000 palestinians in northern gaza must leave their homes or face the consequences. thousands of leaflets rained down from the sky. st garza is now a battlefield. evacuate now and move south. tens of thousands of palestinians fled by car on foot by any means they could find. but for those and the most densely populated area of the strip, which includes guides of city and the jamalia and shot the refugee camps, there was no where to go. the borders are closed, you and shelters are full. israel had promised safe passage south, but that same day an air strike killed 70 palestinians on slot a dean road. the main highway making the north and south of the besieged territory . do you instead evacuating was an impossible demand?

the w h. o called it, a death sentence was moving severely you people and remember many of those children and the severely people who is injuries mean their only chances of survival is a, is a being on the live support such as mechanical ventilator. so moving those people is that that center is really has repeated the order multiple times, but thousands of palestinians remain in northern gaza, cut off by the armies ground invasion and suffering under the relentless bombing campaigns. one analysis suggests, is really there straits of damaged or destroyed nearly a quarter of all buildings. their entire neighborhoods are raised to the ground. this is the largest number. so policy, anything else that ever being ordered to uh, to the case scenario, even others like the n r c, they don't region. richard g council has talked of it as warrant against the risk

all the you, money, tare and ethnic cleansing, you and says more than half of gods. this population has been displaced. many pushed into dangerous living conditions near the border with egypt. but for every palestinian forced out of northern gaza, there are more who refused to leave their homes and their land. afraid that if they do, it will mean permanent exile alexandra buyers for inside story of the . well, let's bring in a puddle of guests to discuss all this. now in montreal we have move in robina, a co editor of jetta. leah, an online news website. he's also a known resident fellow at the center for conflict and humanitarian studies in protest on deanna bhutto. a human rights lawyer informs spokeswoman for the palestine liberation organization. i'm in london, jeffrey robinson, a human rights barrister, and the founder of dowdy street chambers. one of the largest human rights legal practices in europe is also the also of crimes against humanity,

a most distinguished panel. thank you very much for joining us here on the inside story on out to 0. so we'll discuss all this indeed. tell them to mind, but i want to go round. all 3 of you start with you deanna. what we're seeing right now moving people forcing people to move um, ordering them to move in gaza. and your view is this ethnic cleansing? yes, because it cannot be separated from the broader is really plans of trying to get rid of palestinians from the gaza strip to have them for you to design. i move in. is it ethnic cleansing? yes. and less important than my opinion is a consensus among is really military and political leaders that they would like to get rid of the entire population of because of strep. they've been explicit about this. okay, we had in our reports at the beginning, another one who agrees this as an exciting thing is the special ruffle to francesca albanese. so jeffrey robinson is this ethnic cleansing as

a manager. busy bill israel, right, your wrongly is the all too high of guys but it. busy full i have. busy i met and terry and judy too old origin says guys that you may have for direct them to move to a safe place if and only yes the south part to goes is say we me frankly, that is. but israel must a have a ceasefire in relation to south of goes up. so to be clear, is it ethnic cleansing, then you're saying it, well, i know it's a fix it and that is not appropriate. it seems to mediate the question of whether it's a war cry. ok, well let's, let's look at the details of exactly what israel's been doing and we can examine this in more detail. what's the military? i know this now believe that israel probably is already divided garza into and may well have in circled garza city. uh they clearly want to move people out of garza

city. now move move in. would you agree with that? yeah, so now i think it's important also to put this in historical context, not only is more than 75 percent of the population of the gaza strip. refugees who are ethnically cleansed from their homes and townsend villages in 1948. but as we all have since the early 19 fifties had an obsession with what it calls sending out the population of because a strip and the cleansing the knowledge of the gaza strip to sign i to libya, to iraq, to elsewhere. that has been the subject of numerous is really proposals over the decades also after it occupied this territory. 1967, what we've seen in the past month is, is really leaders almost to a man making various proposals and insisting the one result of this latest on the side of the gaza strip should be the removal of the majority. if not all of its population out of the gaza strip either into the egyptian side i or as recommended

this morning, barton is really cabinet administered to ireland. so it's indisputable. in my view, that is real, has been explicit agenda of the expulsion of the population of the gaza strip to outside the country. whether that succeeds or not is of course an entirely different question. the i know we've had these orders coming from the israeli government and these right, the military, the 1st one was on the 12th of october, quite amazingly. then they said people had just 24 hours to move south. yes. and this has been going non stop and the problem of course, is that people then move south and then while they're in the south, they're being bombed and there is no safe space anywhere in the gaza strip. now it's also important to bear in mind that in the south, it's not just a question of people moving south, which they can't do. there is no fuel, there's no water, there's no electricity. and of course there's no food. but,

but even when they move south, there aren't any safe spaces. there's no infrastructure there to absorb the people who are flu. so instead we've seen the way that as well as the top is that it's attack the norm. it's attacked the center of the gaza strip and of course it's attacked the south. and this is why these claims of them are telling people to move south for their own safety. our fellows, what they're doing is they're creating a system of chaos where people feel there is no place that is safe. and then they're going to put pressure on egypt to open up the roof rack border. so the past and has been fully into the sign i've been and so inside jordan, it's like egypt, excuse me, where are they? will there remain forever this, this is not anything new. as mine has already said, this has been planned. these had the plan, is it for a long time. and just last week it was leaked and it's really document was released exactly describing the very thing that we're seeing right now which is create this massive chaos. so that people's lead to this out. and then from this out they get

pushed into into egypt. jeffrey, i mean there are people i ever since that 1st order never been subsequent orders including the supposedly opening humanitarian car doors in recent days for a, for a period of hours in the afternoon in gauze the time. but of course, there are some people who comp move there are patients in hospitals that are all parents with children that are all the elderly, the disabled being from those as well. still have a responsibility to protect those people, even though they wanted people to move. it does. it has a very clear humanitarian responsibility as all to by our, which are a treat. it can hold people to move to their n, c, e a. it's a 10 roof, and those patients in the hospital comp and be with taking them or inviting them to move to a safe place. and it seems to be that says owners is ray,

the ray, just go on and south of that using the office a crate. bear full on less than done to the institute, which is c. so i already police game with addition to so does uh, a big competing a world crime by ordering the transport all decisions. this is to, on the safe place its deanna. we've seen attacks on the schools and hospitals throughout list, but in recent hours we've seen a tax on a recent days. the out she for hospital, the l codes hospital, the nasa childrens hospital. and now these are not just places where people are treated urgently need treatments and pick doctors are working and by desperate conditions to treat them. the role. so the prices of psych tree and protection i, the thing is i could find the out could hospitalized one of $14000.00 people at

sheltering in or around it. and that was she for hospital 45000 people sheltering. and it's vicinity. do you think is there out is trying to send a deliberate message by attacking these places, but no one is safe in order to intimidate people to move. yes, and they've said as much of these relays have been carrying out a propaganda campaign. now for, for about 2 weeks now, indicating that they are going to hit hospitals that they're going to hit you in school, that they're going to hit churches, mosques and universities. they've done it all. and the reason that they're doing this is again, they want to send the message to palestinians that there is no safe space. the only place to say is if you flee to another country, and this is why they've been projecting that they're going to bomb these places. and then it turns out that they do both these places. and, and the problem of course, is that is that nobody is calling israel out for these very deliberate work kinds that they're carrying out where, where they've attacked so many hospitals,

where they've killed medical staff in addition to targeting ambulances, in addition to targeting convoys of people who actually are fleeing to the south? this is because israel has been taught time and time again that it's above the law . and the palestinians are somehow beneath the law. and this is where it has to stop to jeffrey if this is a deliberate is really tactic of trying to intimidate people to move by bombing, what should be the safe places? the hospitals, the ambulance is the schools is back to will crime and your view where all the base of the cd is. but you haven't mentioned it, but he is making sure the new show them boss that she is in the room. reprise the response for around about battery. good packed, bye. have a mass on october the 7th. so with the use of will crime, for example, bombing,

a refugee camp depending on the easiest through defense. now that depends on the proportionality, all the data huge compared to the legitimacy of being too good. it's the just a minute for israel to close to a mass. but if the phones away from the cab 2 to one have mass command and this age, i'm 50 of the innocent purse is band. if a re, either for, for that or the question would be whether that use pollution to queue, okay? units are right, you know, let me just finish. okay, that's the question that the you and john jewelry about must done so of the loss of, i might say no policy to disproportionate to. and so by

a un. yeah. but you, but you are a distinguished legal mind if you will, the judge right now looking at the evidence. do you think it's proportioned? that's jeffrey. well, i do each, but you just have to look at each on a case by case basis, which is why it's necessary for is really target is to have legal advice before they press the button. and why is right, a test to decide was the may eventually about 2 or the facts as to whether they're entitled to take out the school come back from damage, but that's a euphemism for. ready for sharing, candice and people. and so that's the issue. but we'll have to be decided on the. ready we evidence on a case by case basis. yeah, you can say prime but facing is. ready used by lawyers on. ready the face of bait

bombing a refugee tab to the hospital is a war cry, but it is a prime that is open to a defense, and it will be up to 2 is rarely may be, but this case will go before b i c, c. it may be doing there is rare refuses to offer a implant b and used to comb. but one of these bombing is will be somewhat involved in them. we'll take a holiday in europe and find the rest to be prosecuted. and then you may come before cool and that kind of decision whether this following was a boy to be a attack. the israel self with the to the 7 will have to meet you decide. okay, well that's for a cause of law and that may be a very, very long way off. uh, this is a television program, north dakota of little,

but i'd like to bring in moving on this point. do you think israel's actions are proportionate? well, i would agree that there needs to be a thorough investigation of each and every incident where more crimes are being less than i would just point out for the record. that is real. since 1967, as a matter of policy has systematically refused to cooperate with each and every investigation that's lost and has in fact denied entry to the scene of the crime by any and all investigators. now i think another relevant point here, and that would be exhibit a is a, is rarely leaders from the president of the is really state all the way down since october 7th, have made a point of explicitly stating that as far as they are concerned, there is no distinction between palestinian civilians and combatants that as a matter of policy, they refused to make any distinction. so, you know,

there is the circumstantial evidence, if you will, is already over whelming, because also of course is really action since october 7th, have confirmed the israel is refusing to make any distinction between combatants and non combatants. um, just this morning for example, we had and is really cabinet minister recommending the use of a nuclear weapon against the guys this trip i should, i suspect he's going to be around really denounced and condemned to the was not for his proposal, but for reviewing the existence of and is really nuclear arsenal, that the west even in 2023 continues to insist that is real, doesn't have the on the you. you've heard jeffrey, i'm moving this view. what's, what's your view on this, on the, on the proportionality point to courtney to back up a little bit and say that it should have been maintaining a barbaric occupation over the gaza strip. now for 56 years and

a barbaric action by ethnically cleansing posted in 75 years ago, a barbaric action that continues to this very day when it comes to the issue of bombing hospitals. there are red lines in international law, and that is one of them. and to somehow claim that because it is really official claims that there's somebody there that it becomes a little, give them a target is false. this isn't a game, this isn't a video game. we get to run around and drop bombs on the heads of people. and just so happens to be that there are 471 other people who are stationed there. there are rules. and the problem is, is that nobody has ever tried to enforce them against israel. jeffrey, i mean we've had people who have headed south of either been buttons on the way south, hoping bones when they get south. there is something called the crime a per 50. i believe do you think that's a plot? explain what it is and do you think it applies the way it goes back? many hundreds of be is. ready the 10 main using poisoned arrows of the light.

so i encourage you simpler to say it, but it is a crime for which is radio should be it will be it isn't arranged in the dock of either the i c c or something. give it to being cool, but i would say 8, but proportionality means to look at both sides. and it may be, i run it, but will have mass to release each cap. this is tough to choose, then that would say the op because is read will they not have the basis for. ready ready attracting hospitals that make pre g caps and the like we proportionality would be. ready we are the way so it did put him prove the all of these were

a combined is being convicted was very not to have that maybe to use of free hostages. deanna. i'm over here in the battle ropes deanna. i'm a green statistics that i've noticed in the last 24 as the number of people killed in garza. and just over 4 weeks now matches about the number of people who died in russia's war on ukraine that has gone on for 19 months about 10000 people killed in each war. i mean that the scale of killing by israel, does that tell you something, i mean, in terms of the legal, the galaxy of the situation. yes, it tells me that israel is intent on committing genocide and on ethnic cleansing, and that nobody is stopping israel. the fact that when you look at these numbers, there are an additional about 2000 how students who are still trapped under the

rubble, who are still yet accounted for. because there is no way to remove the rubble off of them. when you look at what it is that israel is bombing and how it is that it is bombing the gaza strip. it shows you that was exactly what they said. one of the is really officials from the beginning said, our aim is not accuracy. our aim is maximal damage and this is exactly what we are seeing play itself out is that is real as inflicting maximal damage. we have a so called left the in the is really cabinet man named benny gas who was the, who's the person who was running opposite nothing. yahoo, who's very proudly said in 2014, when there were no captors, by the way, that the, that he was proud to have bombed gaza back to the stone age. and this is what is real, is priding itself on, is they are, they are pride in themselves on flattening, gaza. they've already indicated that it's going to be smaller in size and fewer and number. and so it shows you exactly what they are. so they're going to do is what

they're doing. the problem is that nobody's listening and instead is trying to bury their heads in the sam, jeffrey um, and with the policy you're going to james, can i say the problem is the united nations. there is the difference between the war crime is gluten and nation. yahoo, bruce irene, discriminatory cummings should be loose. and yet the united nations is actually help seats not be for its purpose because the security council, this general assembly is merely talking shop. the security council has this big power vito where a rush of the to is it really river space solution. the tries do get to cease fire in ukraine. don't negotiate shoes. and of course america last week, v to a cease fire resolution in relation to gaza. so us, southern un,

jeffrey, jeffrey, the u. n. is also the useless. what about the international criminal court? because they came out with, with an arrest warrant for platinum, it pushing and praise heels is going to use the international criminal world to do the criminal product to attack it in this case. geoffrey, or do you think that is going to be a great deal of pressure to stop the prosecute to cream con, bringing any d b i for in the process for you to gary and has so much all these hands would be great with a little russian war crimes, but he has said some of these others to use were and will, no doubt have spoke reco this of what's being going on and hopefully will issue some indictments against 10 messed lead is, and is rarely legion's in due course. so i. ready would maintain my, who could be i c, c made,

at least for the reco sick down the prosecutor shootings. those on the face of each does a to be brought against both sides. piano. do you have hope in the international criminal court? it's supposed to be an independent legal body, but it's going to face pretty heavy. political head wins. is it not? remember the trump administration blocked the us visa, full mr. cons please assess a $52.00 ben suit to if, if they ever try to bring charges against is right. the politicians are, isn't, right. they need is a, we'd expect the same from the us on this route would be not, of course. so that's why people don't call the international criminal court as the international criminal court, as the international court to prosecute people from africa and uh, and put in. and that's it. if this really were an international criminal court, then we would have seen israel brought before the eyes to see many, many, many years ago. but instead, we've seen prosecutor after prosecutor either try to kick the can to another

prosecutor or face retribution for trying to hold as well to account. once again, the problem is the united states and the united states has to end and the okay, i've taken the position that, that israel can, can do no wrong. and, and so it's not at all surprising to me that this is where we are at this stage in the world. i am, however, very, very up lifted by the fact that, that the world is not convinced by israel and by this other gang of thugs. but instead, the world opinion is firmly on the side of health and we don't need international courts to tell us what is right and wrong. what is moral and immoral? and we see that bombing a refugee camp binding hospital schools, masks, churches, and kids is illegal. and we don't need to be told that by international lawyers. what we see accountability moving, you know, um and um there's, there's a long track record. in this case, i think the role of the office of the prosecutor of the r c. c,

has been absolutely shameless, particularly during the tenure of, of getting from practically indicted slot to very puts in the day the, the russian invasion of ukraine commenced. and now was probably preparing to issue some indictments against thomas leaders, and that will be the end of it absolutely shameless. more broadly, i think the us has, is really impunity as a strategic policy objective. i think the european countries has made clear their on qualified support for is really we're crimes and that there can and shouldn't be no accountability for his really work criminals. and i'm the only the only people who can successfully hold is real to account for its crimes. or the policy and ends themselves. and they realize that i say to argue that the international system uh will do anything, no sign to very much, maureen. thank you. tools law panel, moving rubini, deanna bhutto,

jeffrey robinson as well. extensive coverage of israel's war on cause it continues here on out. is there a 24 hours a day? and you can find even more context unless it's on a website out of there. don't com. we'd like to hear from you to comments, suggestions, even your complaints can be posted on our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story, or you can send them to us on the former twitter. now x. well, you'll find us at a inside story for more of a team here in doha, please say safe. i'll see you soon. bye for now. the as the situation in gaza. escalades weekly new experts and analysis. this is not a convention of war between 2 armies. amplitude through states, this is a symmetrical news, really all means is not purposely so to kill children. unfortunately, children can be the casualties of the wall, the test. in real time, we only taking them to the task. this government is mostly

to solve the war, as you said, there wouldn't be no peace without justice for finished and stay with us for the latest development on our service stating strikes, followed by through week rescue, because that's 1st responders know, the mission could be the but until then, the humanity drives one day because of the civil defense which rescue mission because one of the pro democracy activists risking their lives fighting or to proceed. i know that's why my go to present good, so i will join the brand new episode of democracy may be exposed to struggle if the

believe democracy is with going full. we never know when an opening a splinter, when a fruit vendor is going to emulate themselves and say enough is enough. my life for democracy on how to 0. we don't simply focus on the politics of the conflict. is the human suffering that the reports are? we brave bullets in bonds and we always include the views from all sides. the israel lease is a new round of strikes, all calls the overnights of the day of bombings that hit civilian infrastructure and the strip. the bulk of this is i'll just say what life and we'll start coming up scenes of chaos and gaza struggling hospitals. and this really strikes cop communication services

and pumps and cause again a mass fund.