understanding what's behind the headlines is more important than ever. it takes listening to the people behind the news and to the journalist for reporting their stories. it's that intimacy that makes every international story local at heart. i'm only give you that host of the take a daily news podcast, powered by the local reporting of elders here. find us where ever you get your podcasts. is the 1100000 palestinians living in northern goza to leave the homes. relentless plumbing is flattened into neighborhoods with people killed by his writing strikes . well fling to israel's actions are quite to ethnic cleansing. this is inside stored the hello that on james bays,

in times of peace telling 1100000 people to leave the homes immediately. might be imagined in response to a natural this almost like a synonymy or a volcanic eruption. instead, think of such an evacuation order in time of war and one of the most densely populated areas on us. that's the reality of gone. so today those who stay risk death, but that's also being the fate of some of those who follow the older to flee. hundreds of palestinians have been killed by his ready gun for all buttons as they headed south. these are the army says is acting in self defense, trying to destroy him. so what's the legal status of israel's actions in northern garza? does it amount to ethnic cleansing? is it a war crime? we're discussing all of this with our panel of guest shortly. but 1st, this report from alexandra buys barely a week into the war v as really military issued an unprecedented evacuation order. 1.1000000 palestinians in northern gaza must leave their homes or face the

consequences. thousands of leaflets rained down from the sky, saying gaza is now a battlefield. evacuate now and move south. tens of thousands of palestinians fled by car on foot by any means they could find. but for those and the most densely populated area of the strip, which includes guides of city and the jamalia and shot the refugee camps, there was no where to go. the borders are closed, you and shelters are full. israel had promised safe passage so, but that same day, an air strike killed 70 palestinians on slot a dean road. the main highway linking the north and south of the besieged territory . do you instead evacuating was an impossible demand? the w. h. o called it and destined to us moving severely, you people. and remember many of those children and the severely people who is

injuries mean their only chances of survival is a, is a being on the live support such as mechanical ventilator. so moving those people is that that sentence is really has repeated the order multiple times. but thousands of palestinians remain in northern gaza, cut off by the armies ground invasion and suffering under the relentless bombing campaigns. one analysis suggests, is really their strengths of damaged or destroyed nearly a quarter of all buildings. their entire neighborhoods are raised to the ground. this is the largest number. so policy, anything else that ever being ordered to uh, to vacate scenario. even others, like in our see different region, richard g council has talked of it as warrant against the risk of a you money car, your ethnic cleansing you and says more than half of guys this population has been

displaced. many pushed in to dangers, living conditions near the border with egypt. but for every palestinian forced out of northern gaza, there are more who refuse to leave their homes and their land. afraid that if they do, it will mean permanent exile. alexandra buyers for inside story. the, the well let's bring in a puddle of guess to discuss all this. now in montreal we have moved and it'll be in a co editor of jelia, an online use website. he's also a non resident fellow at the center for conflict in humanitarian studies and published on deanna bhutto. i human rights lawyer inform a spokeswoman for the palestine liberation organization. i'm in london, jeffrey robinson, a human rights barrister, and the founder of dowdy street chambers. one of the largest human rights legal practices in europe is also the also of crimes against humanity, a most distinguished panel. thank you very much for joining us here on the inside

story on how to 0. so we'll discuss all this in detail in mind, but i want to go round. all 3 of you start with, you know what we're seeing right now. moving people forcing people to move um, ordering them to move in gaza. and you'll view, is this ethnic cleansing? yes, because it cannot be separated from the broader is really plans of trying to get rid of palestinians from the gaza strip to have them flayed to design. i move in. is it ethnic cleansing? yes. and less important than my opinion is a consensus among is really military and political leaders that they would like to get rid of the entire population of because of strep. they've been explicit about this. okay, we had an arrow close at the beginning, another one who agrees this as an exciting thing is the special ruffle to francesca albanese. so jeffrey robinson is this ethnic cleansing as a manager, the deal is way over. i feel wrongly is the all too high of guys that it. busy

full i have as i met in terry and judy to loretta, james has garza, you may have for direct them to move to a safe place if and only yes, the south part the goes is say, read me frankly. that is, but israel most a have a ceasefire in relation to south of goza. so to be clear, is it ethnic cleansing, then you're saying it? well, i know it's basic fitting that is not appropriate. it seems to mediate the question of whether it's a war cry. ok, well let's, let's look at the details of exactly what israel's been doing and we can examine this in more detail. what's the military? i know this now believe that israel probably is already divided garza into may well having circled garza city. they clearly want to move people out of garza city. now move move in. would you agree with that? yes, and i think it's important also to put this in historical context,

not only is more than 75 percent of the population of the gaza strip. refugees who are ethnically cleansed from their homes and towns and villages in 1948. but as we all have since the early 19 fifties had an obsession with what it calls sending out the population of the gaza strip. and the, the cleansing, the knowledge of the gaza strip to sign i to livia, to iraq, to elsewhere. that has been the subject of numerous is really proposals over the decades also after it occupied this territory. 1967, what we've seen in the past month is, is really leaders almost to a man making various proposals and insisting the one result of this latest on the side of the gaza strip should be the removal of the majority. if not all of its population out of the gaza strip either into the egyptian side i or as recommended this morning by his early cabinet administered to ireland. so it's indisputable. in

my view that israel has been explicit agenda of the expulsion of the population of the gaza strip um to outside the country. whether that succeeds or not is of course an entirely different question. the i know we've had these orders coming from the israeli government and these right, the military, the 1st one was on the 12th of october, quite amazingly. then they said people had just 24 hours to move south. yes. and this has been going non stop and the problem of course, is that people then move south and then while they're in the south, they're being bombed and there is no safe space anywhere in the gaza strip. now it's also important to bear in mind that in the south, it's not just a question of people moving south, which they can't do. there is no fuel, there's no water, there's no electricity. and of course there's no food but, but even when they move south, there aren't any safe spaces. there's no infrastructure there to absorb the people

who are flee. so instead, we've seen the way that as well as the top is that it's attack the norm. it's attacked the center of the gaza strip and of course it's attacked the south. and this is why these claims of them telling people to move south for their own safety . our fellows, what they're doing is they're creating a system of chaos where people feel there is no place that is safe. and then they're going to put pressure on egypt to open up the roof at quarter. so the house and has been fully into the sign i've been and so inside jordan, it's like egypt. excuse me, where are they? will there remain forever this, this is not anything new. as brian has already said, this has been planned. these had the plan, is it for a long time. and just last week it was leaked and it's really document was released exactly describing the very thing that we're seeing right now which is create this massive chaos so that people fleet or the south. and then from the south they get pushed into, into egypt. jeffrey,

i mean there are people ever since that 1st order and they're being subsequent orders including the supposedly opening humanitarian car doors in recent days for a, for a period of hours in the afternoon. and, and gaza time, but of course, there are some people who, comp move their, all patients in hospitals. they're all parents with children. they're all the elderly, the disabled being from those as well. still have a responsibility to protect those people, even though they've older people to move it does. it has a very clear humanitarian responsibility as all to by our, the church treat it kind of the people to move to the n. c e a. it's a pen that lives in those patients in the hospital comp and be with taking them or inviting them to move to a safe place. and it seems to be that says, this is ray, the ray, just go on and south goes up that she's in the office, a crate,

bear full on less than the to the institute, which is sci fi, hers least getting with addition to. so does a big competing a world crime by ordering the transport all decisions. this is to on the safe place its deanna. we've seen attacks on schools and hospitals throughout this, but in recent hours we've seen a tax on a recent days. the out she for hospital, the all codes hospital, the nasa childrens hospital. and now these are not just places where people are treated urgently need treatment and pick doctors are working in by desperate conditions to treat them the rules. so prices are st. tray and protection, right. the thing is i can find the out could hospitalized one of 14000 people at sheltering in or around it and out she for hospital 45000 people sheltering. and

it's was send it to do thing is around this trying to send a deliberate message by attacking these places that noah is safe in order to intimidate people to move. yes, and they've said as much of these relays have been carrying out a propaganda campaign. now for, for about 2 weeks now, indicating that they are going to hit hospitals that they're going to hit you in school, that they're going to hit churches, mosques and universities. they've done it all. and the reason that they're doing this is again, they want to send the message to palestinians that there is no safe space. the only place to say is if you flee to another country, and this is why they've been projecting that they're going to bomb these places. and then it turns out that they do both these places. and, and the problem of course, is that is that nobody is calling israel out for these very deliberate work times that they're carrying out where, where they've attacked so many hospitals, where they've killed medical staff in addition to

a targeting ambulances. in addition to targeting convoys of people who actually are fleeing to the south, this is because israel has been taught time and time again that it's above the law and the palestinians are somehow beneath the law. and this is where it has to stop to jeffrey if this is a deliberate is really tactic of trying to intimidate people to move by bombing, what should be the safe places? the hospitals, the ambulances, the schools is back to will crime in your view. where on the face of the ag is, but you haven't mentioned that, but he is making sure the new show them boss that she is in the room. reprise the response for around the battery. good packed, bye. have a mass on october the 7th. so with the use of will crime, for example, bombing, a refugee camp depending on the easiest through defense. now

that depends on the proportionality, all the data huge compared to the kitchen, the c o, b should. it's the just a minute for in straight l 2 because you have mass. but if the phone was away from the cab 2 to one have mass command, and at the same time, 50 of the innocent purse is then if a re, either for of, for that or the question would be with the that use poor to, to okay, units are right, you know, let me just finish. okay, that's the question that we, you and john jewelry about must done so of the loss of i might say no policy to disproportionate to. and so by a un. yeah. but you, but you are

a distinguished legal mind if you were the judge right now, looking at the evidence, do you think it's proportionate, jeffrey? well, i do each, but you just have to look at each on a case by case basis, which is why it's necessary for is really target is to have legal advice before they press the boxes. and why is right, has to do side was the may eventually about 2 or the facts as to where. ready they're entitled to take out the school collection damage, but that's a euphemism for sharing. getting. ready people and so that's the issue, but we'll have to be decided on the whole. we evidence on a case by case basis. you know, you can say prime but facing. ready used by lawyers on. ready the face of bait at bombing a refugee tab at the hospital is a war cry, but it is

a crime that is open to a defense and it would be up to 2 is really may be, but this case will go before b i c, c. it may be. ready there is read refuses to go up for a implant be and used to come, but one of these bombing is, will be someone involved in the will take a whole day in europe and find the better risk to the process. and then you may come before cool and that kind of decision whether these form waiting was of course to be the attack, the israel self of the to the 7 will have to be decide. okay, well that's for a cause of law. and that may be a very, very long way off. this is a television program, not the course of little, but i'd like to bring in moving on this point. do you think israel's actions are

proportionate? well i, i would agree that there needs to be a thorough investigation of each and every incident where more crimes are being less than i would just point out for the record. that is real. since 1967, as a matter of policy has systematically refused to cooperate with each and every investigation that's lost and has in fact denied entry to the scene of the crime by any and all investigators. now i think another relevant point here, and that would be exhibit a is a, is rarely leaders from the president of the is really state all the way down since october 7th, have made a point of explicitly stating that as far as they are concerned, there is no distinction between palestinian civilians and combatants for as a matter of policy, they refused to make any distinction. so you know, there is the circumstantial evidence if you will, is already over whelming because also of course it is really ashton. since october

7th, have confirmed the israel is refusing to make any distinction between combatants and non combatants. um, just this morning, for example, we had is really cabinet administer recommending the use of nuclear weapons against the guys this trip i should, i suspect he's going to be around really denounced and condemned to the west not for his proposal, but for reviewing the existence of and is really nuclear arsenal, the west even in 2023 continues to insist that is real. doesn't have the on the you. you've heard jeffrey, i'm moving this view. what's, what's your view on this? on the, on the proportionality point to courtney to back up a little bit and say that it should have been maintaining a barbaric occupation over the gaza strip now for 56 years and a barbaric action by ethnically cleansing house city and 75 years ago. a barbaric

action that continues to this very day when it comes to the issue of bombing hospitals. there are red lines in international law, and that is one of them. and to somehow claim that because in his really official claims that there's somebody there that it becomes a little, get him a target is false. this is a game. this isn't a video game, or he gets a run around and drop bombs on the heads of people. and just so happens to be that there are 471 other people who are stationed there. there are rules and the problem is, is that nobody has ever tried to enforce them against israel. jeffrey, i mean we've had people who have headed south of either being buttons on the way south open bones. when they get south, there is something called the crime a per 50, i believe. do you think that's a plot? explain what it is. and do you think it applies the way it goes back? many hundreds of be is. ready the 10 main using poisoned arrows of the light. so i encourage you simpler to say that is

a crime for which is radio should be it will be it isn't arranged in the dock of either the i c c or something. give it to being cool, but i would say eat the proportionality means to look at both sides. and it may be, i run it, but we'll have mass to release each cap. this is todd stitches then that would say the op because is read will they not have the basis for. ready attracting hospitals that make for g tabs, like we proportionality would be. ready the other way, so it did put him prove the all of these were a combined is being convicted was, may not have that. maybe she is of free and hostages.

deanna either he's in the battle ropes deanna. i'm a grin. statistics that i've noticed in the last 24 as the number of people killed in garza. and just over 4 weeks now matches about the number of people who died in russia's war on ukraine that has gone on for 19 months about 10000 people killed in each war. i mean that the scale of killing by israel, does that tell you something, i mean, in terms of the legal legality of a situation? yes, it tells me that israel is intent on committing genocide and on ethnic cleansing, and that nobody is stopping israel. the fact that when you look at these numbers, there are an additional about 2000 how students who are still trapped under the rubble, who are still yet accounted for. because there is no way to remove the rubble off of them. when you look at what it is that israel is bombing and how it is that it

is bombing the gaza strip. it shows you that was exactly what they said. one of the is really officials from the beginning said, our aim is not accuracy. our aim is maximal damage and this is exactly what we are seeing play itself out is that is real as inflicting maximal damage. we have a so called left the in the is really cabinet man named benny gas who was the, who is the person who is running opposite nothing. yahoo, who's very proudly said in 2014, when there were no cap just by the way, that the, that he was proud to have bombed gaza back to the stone age. and this is what is realist priding itself on, is they are, they are priding themselves on flattening, gaza. they've already indicated that it's going to be smaller in size and fewer and number. and so it shows you exactly what they are. so they're going to do is what they're doing. the problem is that nobody's listening and instead is trying to bury their heads in the sand. jeffrey um and waiting for the policy. you're going to

james, can i say the problem is the united nations. there is no difference between the war crimes gluten and nathan, yahoo, bruce, irene, discriminatory cummings of the list. and yet the united nations is absolutely health seats. not be for its purpose because of the security council. they generally send these men even talking shop. the security council has this big power vito where russia does it really, really space solution. the tries do get to cease fire in ukraine, don't negotiate actions. and of course america last week, the tude a cease fire resolution in relation to gaza, southern us southern you and jeffrey, jeffrey the u. n. is often the useless. what about the international criminal court? because they came out with, with an arrest warrant for platinum,

it pushing and praise heels is going to there's nothing to sing the international criminal world to do between the criminal problem. in this case, geoffrey, or do you think there's going to be a great deal of pressure to stop the prosecute to green con, bringing any d b i friend the procedure to gary gum has a much stronger use. hands would be great with the russian war crimes that he has said some of these others to use were and will no doubt have full reco just what reading, getting on the hopefully will issue. some indictments against 10 messed lead is and the is really legions in due course. so i would maintain my, who cause b i c. c may at least pull the reco sick down. the prosecutor shootings those on the face of each. this. ready to be brought against both sides.

piano, do you have hope in the international criminal court? it's supposed to be an independent legal body, but it's gonna face pretty heavy. political head wins. is it not? remember the trump administration block? the us visa, full mr. cons please assess a 5 to been suit to if, if they ever try to bring charges against is right. the politicians are, isn't right in the leaders. we'd expect the same from the us on this route would be not, of course. so that's why people don't call the international criminal court as the international criminal court, as the international court to prosecute people from africa and uh, and put in. and that's it. if this really were an international criminal court, then we would have seen israel brought before the eyes to see many, many, many years ago. but instead, we've seen prosecutor after prosecutor either try to kick the can to another prosecutor or face retribution for trying to hold israel to account. once again,

the problem is the united states and the united states has to end and the okay as taking the position that, that is real can, can do no wrong. and, and so it's not at all surprising to me that this is where we are at this stage in the world. i am, however, very, very lifted by the fact that, that the world is not convinced by israel and by this other gang of thugs. but instead, the world opinion is firmly on the side of health and we don't need international courts to tell us what is right and wrong. what is moral and immoral? and we see that bombing a refugee camp bombing hospital schools, masks churches, and kids is illegal. we don't need to be told that by international lawyers, what we see accountability moving, you know, and um there's, there's a long track record. in this case, i think the role of the office of the prosecutor of the i c. c has been absolutely shameless, particularly during the tenure of, of cutting from practically indicted. flocked the beer puts in the day the,

the russian invasion of ukraine commenced. and now was probably preparing to issue some indictments against thomas leaders. and that'll be the end of it. absolutely. shameless more broadly, i think the us has is really impunity as a strategic policy objective. i think the european countries has made clear their on qualified support for is really we're crimes and that there can and shouldn't be no accountability for his early work criminals. and i'm the only the only people who can successfully hold is real to account for its crimes or the policy names themselves. and their reliable, i'd say to argue that the international system uh will do anything, no sign to very much, maureen, thank you to hold while i paddled. louie and rubini deanna bhutto jeffrey robinson as well. extensive coverage of israel's war on cause. it continues here on out, is there a 24 hours a day? and you can find even more context allowances on

a website out as their adult calm. we'd like to hear from you to comments, suggestions, even your complaints can be posted on our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story, or you can send them to us on the former twitter. now x. well, you'll find us at a inside story for more of a team here in doha. please say safe. i'll see you soon. bye for now. the as the, we're on guns, the continues, we bring you the latest reactions and global out. we have come to appeal to governments, wait, wait, and go stand beside them. the palestinians are brothers. once honest, it's a shame, what's happening to the kind of streaming people and that some european governments are even supporting that we citizens and mobilize so that at least there's a ceasefire. it's not just about this latest flare up of violence. this has been

going on for more than 75 years. please stay with us for the latest developments on al jazeera in 5432 mon upfront takes on the big issue. this isn't the one off. he's talking about a systemic issue here. black lives don't really matter in the police for unflinching questions is war with lawanda, imminent rigorous debate? because of lots of medical treatments, challenging conventional with the fact that people are starting to get angry about this is in itself a sign of progress. join me more for me on hills upfront. what, how does 0 thought provoking on sundays, but the patient doesn't have time to wait for the extremely unfortunate, but there are no quick wins and events or research hard hitting interviews. do you feel like america is the best thing to do since these days, or is it just a different full? i think that democracy is a process basically, entities do you feel that the fraction is already starting the g 7 in the u. s. on

one side, china and the brakes on the other. i think there is a huge piece of that to happen to the story on told to houses in the us is always of inside 50 for the world. people pay attention to here and i'll just see this very good the bringing the news to the world from here. the, the hello, i'm about this, and this is the news on life in doha, coming up in the next 60 minutes. enough is enough, says the un as israel targets refugee camps and hospitals in garza jordan, air drums, medical aid into the gaza strip using power suits as hospitals, one out of fuel of supplies, us equity estates, and the talk is capital, the latest stopping his diplomatic to the region.