itself, one moment i'll be very proud all was when we covered the fullness quakes of 2015 at the terrible match, all the facts and a story that needed to be told from the hall of the affected area to be then to tell the people story was very important at the time israel control for new clear problem on goza. the shocking suggestion of the cabinet member, i mean shy, l yahoo! although he's being suspended, his comments of highlights is the devastating potential of israel's cobra nuclear program. so how great a threat, easy to go is the end of this is inside store, the hello again, i'm james phase is widely seen is one of the middle east west kept secrets. israel's nuclear program believe to originated in the 1950s israel possesses

approximately 19 nuclear bones according to the still comb, international piece research institute. israel has never officially acknowledge the existence of this nuclear weapons, but the believe to be and rivals in the region like iran. the country is not a signatory to the nuclear nonproliferation treaty. so the statement by cabinet ministers think is route to the op to drop an atomic boma garza is raising along most so since how hard line is like i'm beach i at yahoo, such as the national security minister. it's him up and give you the finance. some of this stuff as allow smoked rich, a pos are prime minister benjamin netanyahu, whose cabinet? so is israel, continues it, but boston gone, so ship a will be worried about his nuclear arms program. we'll discuss all this with our experts in a moment. but 1st, let's take a look at some of the global reactions, a prime minister netanyahu, and these really government have represented those comments, which we also found as, as holy and acceptable. and we continue to believe that it is important for all

sides of this conflict to refrain from hateful rhetoric that is going to further insight engines. rushes foreign ministry is the bonding, the u. n's nuclear watchdog, the i a carry out inspections, an arab countries of voicing the criticisms of am each i l. e. ya, whose comments? y'all release as a suggestion reveals the true face of the occupation government and everyone who defends it in the west. the jordanian ministry of foreign affairs considers his statement a cold for genocide and a hate crime but cannot be tolerated. on saudi arabia's foreign ministry said the comment shows to what extent extremism and brutality have penetrated these rightly government. well that's bringing to a panel of guests to discuss all of this and the whole robbie act of she is director of the center for security strategy and policy research at the university of the whole. she's an expert on nuclear nonproliferation,

and the non resident senior fellow at the atlantic council in the hague ahmed before international lawyer and legal research and advocacy office f o l hotkey human rights organization and in boss in the u. k. patrick battery defense and security expert at the university of bos. thank you. all of you for coming to speak to us. so these comments that we're discussing come from, not a particularly senior member of the as rated cabinets of the minister of heritage. but um it, they are pretty shocking on like i wish i could say yes they are. i mean, understanding the b a. is there a mentality and this of the nature of this routine, a committed genocide or not is a bit into using nuclear power. wouldn't be very shocking. it's worth mentioning that as their own has already dropped in cause or they were present of to her. she menu the or bombs and continued to,

to bomb cause up. but you're absolutely right it's, it's a very interesting the end because these are out for decades has been adopting a policy of strategic. i'm be given to you when it comes to. it's a new, clear, a power and it never confirms organize that it has a this power but an announcement from a member of the government a should raise a lot that israel indeed has this power and wanted to do to, to use it. so i think the statement must be taken a very serious thing. it must be condemned to international being. it's quite a outrages to be honest and shameful, that in this very moment, until this very moment, you still didn't hear any condemnation from uh, the so called leaders of a free ward or uh, from western states. so before we move on without a discussion on that, it's, i think is, was telling of you, is that not only are you an expert on all panel, but you're also from garza originally?

yes, you're in the hague now, but you're from gaza. how just before we move on discussing this particular issue, how is it watching these pictures every hour, every day, for a month now of what's happening in your homeland, as horrifying and sort of fine. i am, as you mentioned, i'm originally from guys of born and raised as a ruby g. i'm not originally from gaza as such as a, you know, 75 percent of reputation is not from causative. to repeat. g sort i think begins from their homes and produced and then in 1948. um it's heartbreaking to see the neighborhood where i grew up in which thing does, is it a completely destroyed? there's no justification whatsoever for such who are t, n, n, a targeting all of civilian objects. i, residential neighborhoods it's, it's clearly that this is about causing home, not necessarily about some of the tree objective. and this was actually stated by the idea of put spoke person when he said the focus is on damage,

nothing precision. and if you allow me, it's important also to understand that as, as the scriptures interview on. so this doesn't, didn't happen in a vacuum. this, this current situation is a result of 75 keys of scientists design a simpler colonialism and, and pa, this time and it's oper tied your team imposed on the palestinian people as a whole. this is a result of the 56 years of police or integration the longest in modern history. that is, info isn't posting people in the, in the provide us in territory including east jerusalem. and this is also the result of israel's 16 year long, suffocating brocade, on the guys a straight one of the most densely populated areas and or just to give you an idea of how bad this tuition was, even before the, the, the us and has published a report in 2012 at concluding that the guys out will be a livable by 2020. where 3 years passed that with relentless,

with complete siege mitigate for life, a siege and remains as bombardment of, of, of, of civilian areas and the equivalent of 2 new, clear bombs. it's, it's absolute insanity that this is happening in 2023 and the award is still can not even cool for a ceasefire. it's after the shameful for all of these leaders of states around the world, especially in the west for a fuse to go for a ceasefire. i can, i can convenient be say that definitely they have a blog posting of children on their hands since the continued support israel. and not only a by providing diplomatic coverage, but also sending, looking an arms to israel that are be use of policy incidentally. okay, let me bring in patrick now this, minnesota not a particularly senior role, the minister of heritage. and i have to admit myself. although i do try and follow events closely. i have not heard of am h i l e. yahoo!

before these comments, patrick, and in fact one person i spoke to said he's really not a serious player. but this, these are say this price is serious issues, doesn't it? i think, i think a rhetoric was serious and shop, you know, and it shows you, it was probably, you know, is it came out and he moved the radio station. it was probably designed to the internal audience. but you know, in today's media environment that gets out very quickly. and he's been relieved of us, i think is, is your, your previous contributor said? and it does sort of, uh, raise questions about the policy institute. you can be given to you and who knows whether he's actually being fired because of the breaking is right, the defense policy, or he's being fired, as well as for his, the sort of shocking remarks that they should, they should use me get the records on guys or be prepared to add us, but as you correctly identify this, this, this guy is talking to the defense ministry or anywhere near the centers of

oklahoma. so i would have been, i think get better a response to remove from an agency from government to show that that's not the kind of thing that's acceptable at all. and then just rather uh, suspending them. i think the. busy interface, which has gone on has been any sooner which has happened since since the bushes invasion of ukraine is this normalization of new killer rhetoric, which has been done essentially this. and this phase by vladimir, whom the distress is talking about as nucular forces and readiness. and also by his former deputy and former president dmitri medford at, at who is use social media lots to put like threats and then retracted. so what we're seeing unfortunately is a is a normalization of this new killer rhetoric, which of course is incredibly scary for yeah. allow me bringing robbie on that particular point that later on in the program. i'd like to talk to you more about

the specifics of israel's nuclear program, robbie a but that whole that, that the issue, the patrick raises that using nuclear weapons as a rhetorical threat. that's worrying and it's all of a sudden isn't it? yeah, absolutely. james, i, i think, you know, i'm not gonna say it's the good news, but it's the same news that has come out of the region in the boss one month and 75 years with designing for whatever it's worth of this is riley, heritage minister from attending further meetings and making public appearances in building new tribes. you know, he was not only can them diminish drive but also by the u. s. a drunken showing by the rest of the world. as far as considering the use of nuclear weapons and browser as a possibility, why i believe the stand, the nation happens, it is reflective of deep see the mindset is weeks of pay and you'll get bins. you know, his star key can temporarily in any settings it'll north natural that paid for vetch

rate. and so whenever these to arise and then the, the rose is drive slowly by. right? that's right. you know, to go back in time, the race to build youtube happens in the us accelerated in the late fees as far as the jurors total cost based on the list agent for years. as the 5 major residence, perhaps it was with you guys. if in one today, and if the word understands bad about uh if uh, you know, the world needs to understand that about any eugene which has nuclear weapons mix of food and i do all the seals page tray and it's going to be a perfect consequences. ahmed, he has been suspended, but he's not actually being fired from his job and i understand he was able to vote in and is riley cabinet minister etiquette the cabinet meeting by phone as well. so i think was pointing out, isn't it? i mean, he's not the only the so extreme right. member of this cabinet is the most extreme

right government in israel's history. you have been of it who's the national security minister, lead lives in the legal settlement. you have the, the finance minister smart rich uses the palestinian people. an invention. you have notes in the cabinet, but you have a mom is leaves the shows policy already a dairy. you can't be in the cabinet because he's previous convictions, but he is one of the official observers to the 3 man will cabinet with these people up, having considerable influence, all they know is rarely public life homage at this time. and i doubt it. let me just state this as obvious as it could ever be. the names you just mentioned, uh, the most appropriate place for them is not in any government, is here in the hey, in the, so a belonging to the international criminal court where they, where they would be persecuted for a and their actions were the actions of their of the government as iraq,

the point to dollars is professor is that these are leading and government and making genocidal statements almost on a daily basis. and the award is not just not reacting. that's why i think such statement must be taken very seriously. we're talking about a very right wing races, ministers, some of them self described as ashes as, as homophobes indicates, a baseless monitors for example, who can decide the face of how the same people face as much as the minister of finance. a thing of here is the minister of national security has been army settlers, abdul hawk, we have been documenting a rise of over a 133 percent of a similar a terrorism against posting his into respect. so these are problematic people that they don't normally make statements, they the take decisions that result the result and suffering of civilians and the

combined housing treasuries. and they must be held accountable to patrick. we have mr. l e. yahoo! like to clarify his remarks about using a nuclear weapon on gaza, saying it was metaphorical, but it's worth perhaps quoting some other things the set did not interview. we wouldn't have given the nazis humanitarian aid. there's no such thing as innocence . in gauze, these are shocking comments when you see only a trickle of aid going into gaza, people that having to drink contaminated war to people a beginning it seems to be stopping. and of course, there's no fuel being allowed in by the israelis a tool, which means hospitals on now barely functioning is the things you know, the big picture here is that you're, you're dealing with a place in a region where the only strategic stability and security for both people is there are 2 state solution that helps us out here from the ministry strategic point of view, nukes, navigates whatever, okay, long term to get people out of the site,

the fear and radicalization. you must do that. and this minister is essentially an irreconcilable. yeah, he's that far on the are on the hard right of his part of the sounds like any of it i can still available. he's obviously it is a political dynamic that he can explain by making these noises internally. and that's often what this, this is a by, you know, obviously the same thing of the far right. moves around the world. you know, it's actually just, they're just using a media, uncommon, 3 to build up their base or whatever. and for the fact that already, you know, polarize a domestic political space. and what i would say basically, that the far right movements and he's right, and these appointments of different ministers is, you know, nearly 1 o'clock in a prime minister beforehand. and his plummeting is approval rating is dropping that and essentially at the strategic level, israel is taking the base that's come off until the synergy had set by making out a tap. yeah, come out and basically isolate the rest of the outer world,

which by the way, many nations are starting to try to normalize with the israel. and the great another punitive fighter is who as long as their relatives and want revenge. you know, this is not the strategic i'm calling that you would rare cancel. you know, the strategic i've come would have been to take a pause. yeah. do nothing more. yeah. for 1st time ever. and then more, okay, what you're going to do, strategic and yes, some people in houma who were behind this are going to die. and there's going to be some civilians are going to die as well because that's away how much flights. but i don't think it has to be of this scale. and at this level of what i would call strategic funding. okay, probably i'd like you to just look a little bit in detail about it runs, i'm sorry, wrong. we'll come onto the wrong. but israel's nuclear program, we've to, we have the term strategic ambiguity that i publicly say to have nuclear weapons. but it's clearly the worst kept secret in the middle east. can you give us?

i want a short one, maybe 2 minutes, 3 minutes. the potted history of israel is a nuclear program. sure. so is i policy or a new can they use these all things as a, as a samsung option, which is a deliberate strategy of neither confirming nor design existence, office nuclear weapons program. and this policy, how does that asian in the start though, as well as the security concerns that is try spaces in the region. according to this narrative program began lead 19 fifties, early sixties, and new innovative reason and stability. there has had concerns about a security. i'm nuclear weapons are seen as mean started the cost of neighbors and ensure the survival of a state, the security concerns that is dry and hide, you know, is passports, federal, morris obligates, our neighbors as well? the new gen vigorous the policy was intended to deter for tension advisories by keeping them uncertain about is dryers, new fake,

everybody's username fashions. and it also had some de, again, you know, uh, international benefits as well because they decide some of those things on so long for long now. the longest. i know, uh, jeremy development has been concerned about the, you know, acknowledgement or future reference program. indemnification said the international level, therefore neither confirming nor denying is right and why it's triggering on for the sedation obligations, or as soon as you get the sanctions under the radius international treaties is right. as long as you have some big city is also damage your preventative care. entre since the middle east, because it's drivers, all the knowledge that it possesses, future reference is good for work other business days like iran and solve a bus to their own new general brands. which way you slice of aging by the end of the year into, in terms of the styles of this nuclear program. um,

what is quite interesting, a sort of foot note now in history is that it was the french that helped israel build this program. and in fact, the heavy will to, which was a key component is a key component. and crazy. a bottom came from of old people, given that role in piece making in the middle east, came from no way bring us up to speed. now, how, how many nuclear warheads do you think israel has, how, you know, tell us what that all single is now to your knowledge. so there is a new here. i know the book that underneath comes up with the number 4 issues here as in state and as of now funding to that new se northbrook is drive 5 around to 90 is a war and that's, that's the figure that comes up in yes, has started seeing many countries are contributed to the side of cancer programs. french do adopted this. so patrick, i think it's important maybe to explain the nuclear nonproliferation treaty. the idea or i think is to stop the know how to create

a new clip. i'm going to move all nations. so the new plan nation supposed to sign up to that uh, in the israel pocket stone. i have never signed up to that treaty. i understand a north korea withdrew from the treaty when we talk about the idea of proliferation in an spreading, the knowledge of going back in history is rather widely believed to shed nuclear knowledge with south africa when it was under the apartheid regime. yes, absolutely. so the, the n p j, the nonproliferation treaty is signed by russia, china, u, k, u, s, and france. and the idea was to contain the confusion of, of new to knowledge. but you know, the world being is, it is often it's in different nations in progress. and obviously the member states and certain certain allies and partners, and often other states, you know, desperately seeking to develop its own know how to form the same. for example, in around and there are richmond programs depending on it seems to the majority of

that isn't agents, you know, they're trying to do with themselves and potentially with some help along the way in, in different periods of history. but so essentially it is, nations do share, it's a, it's, it's an interesting insight in terms of the norwegians providing the heavy water as well. you know, obviously you got very developed in their new kit or program. and during the, during that just after the, to the 2nd world war and, but he just reflects that. the thing about nuclear weapons is to vote who you are basically you look at the history, they're basically immune or it's an insurance card from being invaded. so you can see why a country that is obviously a population that have gone through the whole house and trauma, try by the and why the 1st prime minister banker and was so keen to dry the head. you'd have the jewish scientist, oppenheimer, tyler einstein,

all really key people in the development of the nuclear bomb. and israel has no strategic tax. it's a small country compared to with our neighbors and a e at the time in the sixty's. and you know, face of the large arabs, soviet equipped armies and air forces. so it was seen as it's insurance cards and hence why, why it flushed and robbie of this makes the whole neighborhood very dangerous. so it doesn't fit because we hear about the clashes that are going on and perhaps increasing in the north between israel and his beloved. and of course iran is close to his beloved. just tell us quickly about it runs nuclear program. i mean, i think it's mainly guess what bios isn't it because neither a wrong gives out any information in the intelligence agencies tracking it this the i and the most out on giving us a run running commentary. but i saw something earlier in the a senior pentagon official said back in 2018. it would take me round about 12 months to produce one buttons was of fissile material. and this was in february it

would take around 12 days. is that your understanding of how close the ron is right now to what they call breakout? as i say, i've read all the reports that are, you know, based on western intelligence analyzers, suggests that are on is a threshold future space. and it is only a question of into whether they are going to go and use it or not. and yes, they're dying lines that you as the, you know, right. he pointed out out, but you know, when it's all about an attitude as rise, right. joseph country has come out and says that, you know, it has issued a religious bucks off against future reference being around. uh, why is that not being taken on face value capability or size style school year has it gets, has energy huge. if i have with disability and these countries also as stressful states and as long as the question of the same sense arise, single out iran,

iran is abstract to the region, the distractors ballistic missile program because it's like some modern air force. so the long range hit on his eyes, it's high skin reach is on as in the salary. if you have, you know, something like 12001250 mile range. and because it brings these countries into the range that auditors about is boring. new jobs is much more in the face as compared to other countries that are also specials. but we also patrick, have an amount of us trips to aircraft carriers. a many, many war ships in the, in the region in the eastern mediterranean, also now revealed that there was a nuclear power and us submarine we don't know whether it's itself is carrying nuclear warheads. but how, what read all you about escalation and then potentially miscalculation. so i think the more, obviously, the miscalculation risk is always, that is the worry when things go wrong. of those miscommunication or some sort of

accident that's the, that's the, the uncontrollable. but i would say, you know, people are doing their best at the conflict behind the scenes. and i think in terms of the point of most the most worry, i personally would have been passed that one when israel on the ground evasion. and there was no mice of responds by hezbollah. partly because of course, he's got 2 us carrier groups sitting off the coast of israel. so anything that did happen would have obviously been for the potentially escalated very quickly. nevertheless, what's interesting and again, you know, or the previous commentator just sold that around. and the reason is that the stabilizer, i don't know, you know, again, hasn't been reported out of what the us based isn't in iraq and syria have been taking heavy attached and the number of going to the end of the, the $1.50. when does not that, and in the wake of the october, the 7th attack and you with them, things that any responsible hour would, would say, given the tensions in the region, but actually don't that down and, and kind of the time. but instead of to increase it by, by the, by at least

a 100 percent, the attacks mom at home. and i'd like to bring you, i'd like to bring, you know, i'm going to the end because if we, we're moving away with this discussion, it's an important discussion from what's going on on the ground and got a new from gaza. and when i looked at the pictures some pots garza looked like, there's already been in the table as well. yeah, that's, that's, that's correct. the, the, the level of destruction caused by israel is on, i'm president of. but if you allow me before talking about that i, i, i'd like to touch upon something that patrick said. first of all, this whole notion that the key to security s o m piece is exclusively a certain political solution, be the 2 state solution or any other solution. it's elizabeth, problematic, the, uh, the key to security m b strip be routed in justice. we should have learned the lessons of a 4th or 2 and

a number of trials. and let me quote what the persecutor of number of trial says. and benjamin friends said ones at the trial that they can be no peace without justice and no justice without lo and no meaningful without the court to decide what is just a little under giving cert under any given circumstance. the other point i patrick mentioned now i would love to to, to comment on is that as well? so in the travel, how much i don't think does the case, i think is there also an opportunity of what happened and it's over 7 to materialize along announced a aim and gold to i think the extends the posting is in the guster bush and assign . i this is not the secret as radius have spoken about this for uh for, for a long time. and this seems to be objective and now going to add to, to us. so you question, you're absolutely right. the, the, the level of, of destruction is unprecedented. and in a way,

coupled with israel's official dangerous doing the sato statements as their ohs systematics targeting of protected civilians, mostly women and children and of projected civilian objects including hospitals, avalanches on our schools. bakeries on our rough foot storage is watered reserves, indicate a clear deliberate policy of starvation being used as a method of welfare that aims at inducing people of guys are to these because is true. these are a series of before crimes, crimes against humanity, including starvation. as far as displacement is included the cleansing persecution . and this seems to be another neck, but with a frequent a serious signals of a genocide i'm of folding before our eyes on that. thank you very much and sign q 2 all i guess around the act of patrick barry and ahmed. before he went inside story,

we're going to continue to examine every aspect of the goals of war to find more of our programs, as well as extended articles, a much needed context. we should add to our website, which is 0 adult calm. if you have comments you want to hear from you hear from you post them on facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story or on the former twitter now x at ha, inside story for me, james base. and all of us here in doha, stay safe. i'll see you very soon bye for now. the the latest news as it breaks within 24 hours to rylin's list. definitely as tacked on a small refugee camp in the valley with detailed coverage on to the blinking fault to these relief. essentially what he said, if what happens continues to happen, they're not going to be many partners for peace from around the world. they want a tire in gaza on demand adhering and they want the us to stop funding.

the of the israel strikes near l shift garza's largest hospital and one of the few still functioning more than 10500 policy means have been killed since october. the 2nd the .