world is witnessing death and destruction and does that on an unprecedented scale war crimes in full view cools for us, see spot ignored. so why does some of the does appear more concerned with government tired trace once the board so, but this is the inside story. the hello that are on james bay's palestinians in gaza leading their lives moment to moment. not sure if they'll survive is really a tax if they'll be able to eat to access medical treatment for family members injured in the bombardment in the middle of this brutal presence. some world leaders have already begun discussing the future once the war is over. the us secretary of state says they'll be no place for hamas, nor county israel re occupied the strip that is concrete to what these really prime minister is saying, benjamin netanyahu has declared is route,

will be responsible for garza security for an indefinite period off to the war, why does somebody disappear more concerned about who will govern, goddess at once, the bloodshed is over? we'll discuss this with our panel of guessing a moment. but 1st this report from poking the palestinians in gone. so have a few options. if they stay in the homes, they risk being bombed. if they seek shelter in the hospital or united nations facility, they risk being boomed. if they leave and travel south where the is riley, army says it's safe, they risk being bombed on the road. and if they do make it to one of the informal settlements that the spend up in the south of the district, they are a risk of being formed that to online and then may all protect this. because under the circumstances, those who want us to lead me to have the results is to do that is if they've sentenced us today. then there's the strength of the rules that is

really soldiers and palestinian fighters, engaged in fis, bottles on the streets of northern garza, including in garza city the whole shows no sign of ending. you have to meet the death and destruction. some have already started to talk about the post conflict future i think is what well, before an indefinite period will have the overall security responsibility. because we've seen what happens when we don't have it when we don't have that security responsibility while we have is the rupturing of a must or on a scale that we couldn't imagine. although the us secretary of state disagreed with these really prime ministers plan. he presented ideas of his own. no forcible display, some of the palestinians from guys, not now, not after the war. now use a gas it as a platform for terrorism or other violent attacks. no react to patient of got so

after the conflict, hence, no attempt to blockade or besiege guys or no reduction in the territory of guys to the so the 2300000 palestinians. and during israel stay on slowed, what life will be like after the war is probably inconceivable. right now. they have more immediate worries, some why safe to sleep? something to eat and drink, and weather friends and relatives of the life get the potential for further depression. in the form of israel is re occupation of gaza makes soon be weighing heavily on already troubled minds. poking out to 0 inside story. well that's bring, you know, a panel of guess to discuss this more in houston, texas. we have mohammed and a blue seat and attorney, an organizer with the policy and youth movement in high for these, right?

the historian, a long pop a, he's the also of the ethnic cleansing of palestine. a book about the not about all the catastrophe, the false exodus of hundreds of thousands of palestinians, and 1948 when the state of israel was created. and in london, we joined by vincent, seen a former british consul general in jerusalem, a trustee of the bel full project. thank you very much for talking to us all of you . if i can start with you mohammed. yes, we are going to be talking about the future of garza, but i'm well aware that people on the ground in gaza, i'm not thinking about the future. they are living moment by moment. yeah, that's absolutely right. um, as i'm sure your viewers know over the last month we've witnessed the massacres of over $10000.00 cost in nearly the majority of them being children. and what we've seen is the wholesale destruction of the civilian infrastructure of gaza. and this

is in line with what we've seen from these rarely military in the past, especially in the past course in gaza, including the, the war and, but on and 2006. which the, the, the overall goal is to essentially devastate the civilian infrastructure. and population of a specific area in order to, as in their words, fear and their consciousness is rarely response to any form of resistance to its continued occupation, occupation, siege and imprisonment of the compatriots of, of palestinians and lebanese. and so i look for palestinians and the gaza strip right now. it's a question of how do you survive the next minute the next hour, the next day of both in terms of being able to meet their basic needs in terms of just nutrition, living off of 700 calories a day, their medical needs. a lot of these people have longstanding chronic issues that

are not being able to be addressed in this current moment to lock a fuel, the lack of electricity and the inability to find a safe space in gauze. so they're told to move south and the south was from bergman bombarded, i believe over the last 24 hours the south has received more air strikes than the actual north where those rallies are claiming their focus or concentration in terms of how masses, military capabilities and its leadership and so it's very clear to me that for the palestinians in gaza there is no horizon beyond this more until we have an implement at sea fire, which is being called on by human rights organizations govern. it's across the world, june to the united nations overwhelmingly voted in support of a ceasefire. and yet both the biden administration and this is rarely regime failed to comply with both international law and the will of the populations of the entire world. a lot in pop a we are talking about the future and goes up because the key political figures are

talking about it. but also because in order to make sense of what israel is doing on the ground, we need to know what better objectives. now we know the objective is to destroy him us, but what off to that? well, i think that there is a kind of a consensus. ready is really about the military if you want aspect of what they're doing, although. ready it's realistic, it's another question and. ready is a huge human and. ready willing i'm acceptable of human costs, so that minute look for these military decisions we can see on the ground. but you asking me about the political decision, what would they want to. ready who should they or if they are succeeding as a if they succeed in implementing their military plans? well, there is no one answer because. ready this goes back to. ready composition of the policy makers all you. ready the government of as well as they except little

components of the extreme right wing compl. ready ready the government of as well, the hopes that this would bring back the settlers to gather and create uh an on pallets. thing. ready you guys uh it's not, it's been. ready for all of those of them, at least in the north of guys up and it's on, you know, seems to be very close to that cuz. ready i've been putting huge pressure on each. ready ready create a refugee city uh in the sinai. uh as. ready kind of uh, controlling the. ready directly or. ready and then next. ready it's the less, although the in my minds that. ready so like, but not think, but those are less extreme. and these really government and the new allies of it then you know, like guns and beginning guns, we joined him in the what they called the cabinet meeting. they are thinking about about bringing back the be a to guys

a but not of the whole. ready they hope to grade some sort of the buses. ready that . ready would uh be a next door as well and what 3. ready mains would be under the control of the listing and eh, authority, again, i don't think anybody there has worked out a deep a blend these um. ready ready kind. ready of visions driven by their idea ologies, but all of them. ready are and meant to what they think is to change dramatically the nature. ready of who rules does uh and how much does a re. ready ends in the. ready of these raise and how. ready much of it will be and i told them is that for the staying in air. ready are very much like area a will be in the west bank. okay, let me bring it in vincent. and before i ask you a question, vincent um lets just explain to of you as you what the retard british consul general. now the u. k. like many other countries has an ambassador, intel of eve,

who deals with israel and the console general in jerusalem, who deals with the palestinians, who will, you will say, the trusty of the bo, full project. perhaps you could quickly explain what that is and then on. so my question, when having had what's in his said about the disagreements at the highest level in israel on what is the final plan here? if there isn't a clear plan, isn't that how military missions and gotten a quote from a yes, thank you. i'm a brief, what about about for projects? we have a website w, w, w dot about for project dot org on the website. there was a film called britain in palestine. 1917 to 48. we have to remember, i'm still on those to the night of the promises made by britain developer decoration and then to conduct to prevent a contradictory promises by the british government leaving a message in 1948. so as the service said, that un secretary general said

a few days ago that there was a this, this conflict was not in motion a vacuum. there was a context. and i would come in to your view is the objectivity of fetch feel. it's important with the so much deliberate disinclination going around there is a you okay, responsibility and a u. k. responsibility to think about the need in the direction of ecology returning to your question. um there is a security about it. the intentions of the, of the government of israel to and if i try to compare what they are saying to our tony blinking to us, so contrib stage. this thing on his chore, from our capital's and i got there is a contradiction. they're biting and thinking out talking about um, new occupation of gaza after this for the reality is that israel

has never ceased to occupy gaza since 1960 some people's occupies east jerusalem and the rest of the west bank. and we must forget the difficulties being experienced by palestinians in the west bank over 2000 been displaced by violence surplus probably with a silence. organize on so be confused by the all right. but coming back to your question, um and just saying one point to the send, you know, sort of the western governments have been using for 2030 years with the yellow projects, goods house and excludes by the stadium is not a jazz. so the ports of coal blanking on his tour has been a big without bass and remo and the efforts of the west of lincoln. so nec my chrome and others will be to listen to them. all

right? the only but to listen to the last point for now we just say what we needed this. a terabyte is palestinian agency. so i would be very inclined to listen to how much more that to me palestinian agency leading to self determination for the palestinian people alongside israel. because in my opinion is rarely as they have to say. okay, well let's just examine some of the things that people are saying on this right now . we heard in while writing report, the comments of prime minister netanyahu let me pull it up on the screen and that's just examine that. again, these really prime minister says, i think israel for an indefinite period. we'll have the overall security responsibility because we've seen what happens when they don't have that security responsibility mohammed when you hear those words, do you think that means is riley troops will continue for

a very long time on the ground and gaza. is that your reading of it? i don't believe that nothing yahoo or there's really administration and it's and it's and it's co, correct coalition knows what that means itself. and the reason being is ultimately the decision is not going to revolve around their own independent calculation of what they should do, but depends on the way the actual policy and resistance in gauze the response. are they going to be able to withstand a continued military occupation with boots on the ground in the gaza strip, given the tunnel systems, given the capabilities given the threatened, the risk involved in the north with the resistance in london on a given to regional dynamics. and the pressure is that they're going to face from both the countries they seek to normalize with and varies actors. they have treat trade deals with light, turkey, and elsewhere. and so i don't believe that the, the government currently has an exit strategy or even

a post. so to speak more strategy, because i don't think this more will. and i think it will be a continuation of the 75 years that we already have experienced. it will be just a variation or rearrangement of this military structure that military rollover policy in life. and there will be continued resistance to a messages, a, whether somebody likes it or not, is there to state whether in a organized political formation or through the actions of an underground guerrilla movement in the gaza strip. and that's the same that could be side of the west space. we've seen an increase both in terms of the involvement of non sort of a mass or is lemons. you have groups, groups that are working under broader banners and umbrella as groups that are drawing on various factions. we've also seen the military wing effect a, a, a, the lots of brigades who entered the fray. and i've been confronting israel for the

last multiple you years. and so for me, the, the, the stated goals of is really government right now are simply cover for their implementation of the few doctrine, which is something that they established in 2006 with, with the resistance in love at all. it was that we will target familia in construction population as a deterrence equation, as a message to not just the palestinians in the gaza strip, the air witness level world as a whole. that should there ever be any confrontation with our plans or occupation of the region? we will, the civilian populations of your territories will be met with extreme force. and so let me, let me bring in the things that you've said that um you said that you're never going to get rid of a mouse. however many operative, so leaders, you kill the idea is the audiology of resistance is embedded in gaza. long do you

think is rather not learning the lessons of history if they think there's going to be a more compliant palestinian population off to this very brutal bombardment the way that i really love him. and i, i think that a physical as horrific a as a situation is now, and i'm afraid it can be even worse. a, it's not a game changer in any way. uh, palestine was going to be colonized the westbank would still be occupied because the state would still be siege and the palace being. ready ready ready uh would continue in that respect. it's absolutely a good analysis in the sense that uh that what we see here is not a an x that is meant to change the reality, but rather to maintain it. uh and uh if, if i'm right that this is uh what is going on and. ready is probably what will

unfold then. yes, the answer to your question is know is that they're not learning from history. uh they do believe that at. ready the they have done. ready in the last uh 56 years since 9067 is more or less working you would have sold the, the operations. ready of the how much. ready loaning of the savings of october would send and kind of waves of doubt and the policy make. ready as of the military command. ready of isn't my saying are you sure it's working. ready what happened. ready the service of october, but the immediately they created and narrative. ready ready what happened is something that was. ready understand below. ready as to the history of a not says in or i says and so on. and therefore they, they con. ready they don't want to. ready they just. ready they should, they just. ready ready less than that they should learn. so i'm,

i'm afraid that we will be. ready the same point as where we are here right now, namely the. ready have western governments providing an unity to is a the good to continue these policies of oppression. a civil societies who stand behind the brothers. ready in struggle and military in balance that does not allow the ballistic. ready and any future or even. ready hope of overly. ready rating that by this time at this moment in history. but that also means site goes inside because of bloodshed environments unless the whole, the perspective of the region and the international community would change. because in balance of the, on the ground, locally. ready stay the same. okay, let me, let me, let me bring you a big one and let me bring in vince. and you mentioned the views of the international community were beginning to get some of the views of certainly the us . let me go back to what we heard at the top of the program,

the comment from and to the blinking. again, let me put it up on the screen note for civil displacement. the policy is from gaza . now note off to the will no use of golf as a platform from terrorism, no real to patient of cause a so that from the us secretary state, some red lines for the us from the us for israel, do you think is route will listen? do you think even the president of the united states, when he hasn't been able to get a humanitarian pulls, he's been asking for it for days and days. has a nice way of apartments and nothing yahoo! a service problem. and the problem lies in large trucks with a government of israel in that the current collision pre dense, if you're like, has, as it's policy platform, that old man belongs to israel. and it's for israel to choose. now that deprives the other thing and people of the rights to self determination, which is a rights not

a gift. it's the right and the international community must not and should not kind of live at the perpetuation of the occupation. the occupation of 1967, as i said, there's a context which goes back to the 40 item before, but in terms of what the western powers blinking the macro etc can do with brittany. taking a leading role because of its responsibilities that you started responsibilities is to say to israel, it is not possible for you to maintain that you have control and that you have sovereignty over the entirety of what was recommended by this time. it cannot be that policy has to change. and i do believe that in civil society in palm and lunch in the u. k, i would hope in got much. there is a realization that that is really government policy must change. and that in

britain, particularly where i am, the mindset of the got much needs to be part of it to you have a steam between palestinians and israelis. because the other part of what mr. blinking is saying is that he wants the palestinian authority to take control of cause that he wants, that he says unified with the westbank under the policy, you know, authority. so if you mohammed, do you think the policy knew a force he would like to resume control of goals in this way? what would people have caused that may cover a ton of the policy, you know, sortie, it was for the state and the statements of my home without best um, regarding this, it seems like he's in favor and through his consultations with blinking on assuming authority of the the gods and strip, but you have to remember that the palestinian authority is deeply unpopular, viewed as illegitimate, increasingly so including as a result of the response to the genocidal campaign being we waged on the gaza strip

. it's unpopular amongst its own base, its own supporters are increasingly seeing it as the legitimate and acting outside of its scope of authority, including actual members of the security forces that are tasked with maintaining or preventing any resistance to these really occupation and, and the goddess strips to specifically if the palestinian authority rides in on his and his really on a proverbial is really k that's going to be met. and viewed as a continuation of the as rarely campaign on the gaza strip in its current form. and even then, as has been mentioned by, by my colleagues, the coalition and its current report is deeply and targeted stick to the role of the palestinian authority, especially the far right parties. the ones who are interested mostly in settlement expansion in the west bank and prioritizing their, their ability to do so. and so there's not going to be

a situation where they're even supported by these really government, regardless of what the international community wants, the need to be bringing into a lot now, because there was another idea of floating around which is to make garza either a trustee ship or have some sort of un force was explaining 12 years. the, you wouldn't have been involved in the past. you have and off the un, this engagement observe a force that's up in the golan heights. that since the 1973 war, you will also have a set pro force unit full, the un interim force in lebanon. the, in to me, in that name of the site. so he lost it 45 years. they've been there since these riley, he pulled out of southern lebanon, but a long it would be very different with nipple. but you and countries, you and member states to come up with a force here because they would not be working as a peacekeeping force. they'd actually be working, it seems as, as the, as the prison wardens in the prison that is garza. yes, that they will be asked to do the vice being. i was asked to do by this room sub

contract. that what these very goal, the security of israel? no, i don't think it's going to work. i mean, we can just go back in history to the attempt of the united nation in the international community to act as a buffer zone in the city of hyper on funding between the fanatic settlers there and the and then the people of hyper on a we know what happened, i mean that they were totally ignored and, and half of the city was ethnically cleansed. either we continue. ready we had and as we said before, this means called. ready zation and not to. ready long his struggle a and it's very different to predict how we will unpack. ready it exactly bought from the fact that it would cost menu when lives or the other trajectories to change that the sketch. ready together and it is a we need a different approach to all of it. this is not about how is the insured controlled bonds of palestine. this is how punish time should look like if we are serious

about the sofa donation liberation, freedom, the title of refugees. the. ready listing is. ready to have the power to impose that kind of conversation. but the region has these nomic world has and the world has it's just a matter of regional international determination. uh, to try and take responsibility and i agree with with vincent bit and should be the 1st one to do it. but this is not the only international x, the responsible for the unity that is an enjoys and it's oppression of the other thing. and the many, many of the culprits in this and. ready world has to change its attitude and at least go back to the kind. ready a mentality she doesn't if you want or perception of the, of the seed. ready ation as it adopt it towards the bottom. so that's a, that would be

a very good beginning. if he doesn't solve the need to do the problems on does and so on. but at least we should try and exploit this horrific a general side of the city. ready ation into a different kind of subject to read that takes us into the future with such a crimes against humanity and all perpetrated any more which is by the way, a win win situation for everyone. but one that is, well, of course doesn't wish to unfold and one but unfortunately most of. ready really, jews as the. ready the government on this so the situations in history where you cannot rely on the change of with in pro and from. ready in the corner lives as society you need region, the region and the international. ready ready gate to interfere and understand that this is not just the local issue of injustice. it has huge implications for the region as old. and i would say to many parts of the world as well. thank you

gentlemen very much for joining us for this discussion. i think we will learn something well listening to this program trying to, to all guess mohammad. now lucy is on pop a and vincent feed around the talk coverage of the war and gaza continues on now to 0 for more detail, context and analysis. you can go to a website out, is there a dot com if you have any comments, suggestions and yes, even complaints. go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story, or you could tweak to to. so what used to be twitter. now is called x or handle is at a j inside story for me, change space and all the team here stay safe, bye bye. for now the what's most important to me is talking to people, understanding what they're going through here as a theater. we believe everyone has

a story we're hearing. israel is still refusing to allow international journal into jobs. power spinning and reporters risking everything to get the story at 15 members killed in an ad strikes the listening post we covered the way the news is covered the

. the israel continues from bottom, it's of course because of the critical infrastructure in northern garza and they to strikes of targeted the out see for hospital and run, see seek childrens the carrier don't send this out to sandra with austin. so also on the front of us says israel is now agreed to a 4.