in 5432 more upfront takes on the big issues. this isn't the one off. he's talking about a systemic issue here. black lives don't really matter in the police for unflinching questions is war with lawanda a 10 minute rigorous debate? because of lots of medical treatments, challenging conventional with the fact that people are starting to get angry about this is in itself a sign of progress. join me more for me on hills upfront. what, how does 0 the white house. so now it says was at close date, humanitarian pauses, and slicing in gaza. apollo simians to move around or escape from the north mazda the south is being forms to one, senior you and officials, as the plan is full. so what does it aimed at achieving this is inside story, the

hello dire and welcome to the program. i'm laura kyle, who was for us the spot in gauze a growing by the day, but with palestinians enjoying death devastation and dep probation every day was have they been offered? pauses and is really strikes daily 4 hour window said to be ended, encouraging people to move to the south. but that regions being attacked as well. so just the white house announcement of a daily pause of any respite, a tool to palestinians in the tower tree, or is it a way to devise the strip as part of the israel offensive strategy? we'll discuss these and other aspects of the conflict and just a moment for this report by pull to the gym, paramedics and gaza raced to respond to the latest target of israel's bar means

that the dust toilet spiraling many thousands of pulse students had been killed since the start of the war and tens of thousands injured most are women and children. as a father, i wish i had never heard my daughter cry like that. it breaks my heart. i was worried, the pain would make her lose cautiousness or die. the operations carried out without anesthetics, often in the dark, the lack of medical supplies, clean water and power, all the result of israel's attacks and its total siege of the territory gauze us health system is all but destroyed. after nearly 5 weeks of bloodshed, one and a half 1000000 palestinians had been forced from their homes, many field they've been abandoned by the world. the united states says israel has agreed to suspend its offensive for limited periods every day. israel announced

for our pauses with a 3 hour notice in specific areas as well as to the amount of trained court orders that will allow people to move more safely, freely to get out of harm's way. and also to access the assistance of the steps will, will save lives and will enable more assistance to get the palestinians need. but that has been met by anger under vision. instead of stopping it, the u. s. r. again, once again, resorting to during the same time, it's like giving 4 hours to, to the people, to engage up to 3 hours to lead to people, greece. and to remember what these, the sound of life without the bomb bank before starting something them again, it's very cynical and widespread cost ratio to stop. it's a tags have again, been rejected. there won't be a series far without the release of is rarely hostages. that's not going to happen

. prime minister netanyahu says a broader ceasefire would be a surrender to home us. and israel is only allowing palestinians a daily window to leave northern gauze, but not to safety. even in the south, israel's vomiting campaign is relentless. paul treasure g. on for inside story the buffalo and this that spring in august now and in chicago, and i sure can israel and palestine direct to add a human rights watch. they investigate human rights abuses and crimes against humanity in virginia and united states as to the policy. the executive vice president of quincy is chief responsible state profit to washington based think tank and in toronto is joseph malibu, the executive director of doctors without borders in canada. if i would welcome to own a view of trees uninstalled with you, because we've got

a day off to the us announcing these pauses, at least at the time of recording this program, we've yet to see any official confirmation of these points. as for me is right is or any evidence of them taking place on the ground? do you think the 5 ministration was premature and it's announcement i think it by the restriction is not really looking to ease the situation in palestine. what they're looking to do is do some sort of a measure that makes it easier for them to match, as well as lauder and garza, and reduce the international objection. but i think even that very simple move has failed because people are simply not accepting that there should be a pause indicating when there can be a stop did it. and in the, in the region itself, no one has called for a pause. all of the different countries, including those are very close to united states. i've called for a ceasefire. and if we look at the language changed the way it was saying and cause it calling it a humanitarian pause. there's not much to monetary and about so it is at

a 4 hour. busy if indeed it happens from being bombed, refrain from being bombed, little being forced to move from your home in the north to the south way. it's also likely to be bombed. and yet the us seems right, happy to use this term is nothing she made about all i think you're kidding when you actually can stop. and i think we also have to keep in mind it was only about 3 weeks ago when the brazilian has introduced the resolution of the un security council. calling for him and a terry and paused the entire council with the exception of russian b. u. k. voted in favor of the united states veto di resolution it condemn us, it condemn as a result of the call for you material pause, and apparently that was not something that you was willing to look it up. now it's going for you minutes and pause assets, thousands and thousands of more people having to. and it's done in such a manner in which will have almost 0 diplomatic effect in the region. and hardly

any effort at all on the ground in terms of using the suffering. and i don't know, even if we do see it taking place, won't set likely to look like a look at the end of the day. it's not going to stop. the relentless, incessant bombing by is really forces that is reduced entire city blocks and large parts of neighborhood trouble. the reality is under international humanitarian law for a warning to be effective, there must be a safe place to go in a safe way to get there. and in gaza, there is no safe place to go and no safe way to get anywhere. ultimately, to get humanitarian aid to those in need, you need fuel to enter and you need a sustained break in the, a bombing, not a temporary boss, but something significant that can allow a to reach hospitals and northern gaza to reach those in need. because right now, it's simply not getting there today, but it's coming in. dropbox is just a trickle of what's necessary. israel is refusing to flip the switch for

electricity, turn the top for the water, allowing these critical resources and a 4 hour plus any and every day is not going to address the underlying need to stop the unlawful killings and to allow aid to reach those in need including a northern gaza jose, if you ask me that you've written an open letter to the canadian prime minister saying what was saying now that a pause is not a solution. do you expect them to listen to that? less a well, i press ok just to corroborate the indeed what you're saying, that the pause is not going to be a solution. it's not going to stop the, the problem here. and this is an unusual step for, and i sat for a doctors without borders to take, we don't normally, as humanitarian. our job is to go into conflict situations, provide a measure of, of, of humanity and provide medical aid within a conflict situation. and we would call on parties to conflict to respect

international humanitarian law to provide that space within which we can, we can ask and, and provide that humanitarian assistance. in this instance, we just saying that the incessant pattern of repeated and brazen violations of international humanitarian law not separating combatants from from non combatants and taking measures to protect the non non combatant siege of warfare, indiscriminate form of warfare, direct attacks on, on hospitals. i even, you know, was just reading that there were more attacks during last night on medical facilities and guns. so this repeated patter of complete ignoring of humanitarian law and, and, and the result being that there is just no space or humanitarian action whatsoever . and is crushing blows to civilian. that's why we're saying look, a pause is that. yeah. any moment when there's not a bond falling, that's a good thing. but a pause indicates resumption. and in this case,

any former resumption of what's currently happened, the way that the hospital in these are currently being conducted is completely inhumane. it's completely unacceptable. and that's why we're right into to our government as a form for our government to put all their pressure that they can for a complete ceasefire. but why do you think you'll government the us, the u. k. many companies in the west are refusing to use this would cease fire and i don't know why they're refusing to, but i what, what i can feel is that there's a, a desire to say, look, if we can just get them humanitarian aid in their humanitarian aid is not a solution to the doctors cannot stop home. so, you know, there's the, i think there's an effort to say, look, if we can just sort of open up the border for a little bit, maybe get some positive, get a little bit of humanitarian aid in there. we can all feel a little bit better about what's happening and got that. but that is just that is almost meaningless. any bit of 8 is going to be

a good thing. any pause is going to be a good thing, but it's almost meaningless relative to the scale of the, of the bump argument. then you know, this is why we have to come back to our government and hopefully it will, this letter and the activism of so many and my country here calling for this, these fire. hopefully our government will listen and realize that that a pause is way far from us. the illusion, a total cease fire, what need to happen? trace, i don't copy this space until the be us national security council. he says these pauses all significant 1st steps. 11 does the 1st steps towards and just how significant they all as well the us side. it has given absolutely no indication that the last step for the next steps would be anything uh, involving any particular diplomas. so it appears that the next steps is for the remaining military to take them. no, she can't be in to the next now. and that means more people are going to be killed

. the more children are going to die. i think it's important to keep in mind the numbers here in comparison to other conflict. we have a situation in a, in gaza right now, in which, according to these radius figures themselves, they say that they believe they have killed about $20000.00 people, which is far more than what the gods in health authorities have reported um, but nevertheless, downstairs is very estimation and they also say that they believe that they have killed about 60 mos operatives. that would be the point 0.3 percent of the people to or would come off. that means a 99.7 percent of the people can i still use this, this for a portion i mean just amount us to do the best. i don't think we should have seen in any other. no. she caustic in the last 56 years, and that is why just calling for pauses in not doing anything, not spending any of this political capital on an actual end to the call. as soon as

the unforgettable and it is really hurting the us as standing internationally, the us position on this matter is as isolated at the you weren't as the russian position on ukraine was. so this is not just about what's happening to the palestinians when he's ready. it is. this is also having its very, very detrimental effect on the us as standing in the wall that is not just in the middle east. look at that protest taking place in latin america, taking a look at the number of countries in latin america and have broken their relations with us should really we think of this position extensively because it is unforgivable and is hurting the us position. a low price of do you think we perhaps overestimate the us as leverage of the met him, yahoo government in his war cabinet because we know that the us exaggerated huge pressure on israel over the past few days to green, even to the short daily pauses, which we've yet to see them put in place. do you think they have left it even less

leverage as well than we think? i'm not really sure that is true that the us impose huge pressure. i mean, take a look at what has to happen on the one hand, the us veto. there is an issue calling the very humanitarian pauses. now that the us says that is papers. at the same time, you have congress allocating $14000000000.00 to as well. the united states has replenishing, it's really artillery, and i mean, there shouldn't even say in some of the what is that has been says to ukraine, shipping it to as well. so what is that huge pressure we're talking about here? these are mixed messages on the one hand, some empty rhetoric saying that's we're pressuring is on the other hand of in practical terms, doing everything to facilitate and help israel in it's daughter, a garza right now, i think the united states as nice as a message. we have not used it because it by to ministration does not want to use look at the human security council. these 2 resolutions that we've mentioned in,

in the discussion so far with the course one calling for humanitarian see spot that was rejected. but also, as we've highlighted the humanitarian pause, this resolution cooling for him and to impose was rejected very early on. do you think that set the tone? it gave israel caught blows? it meant that it didn't have 2 adults. this at any stage. how damaging was it that, that very there's 2 resolutions were rejected very early on in this conflict. as we know, the united states as long used its voice and its platform. not just that the you will have but much more broadly to shield these early government. in many, many cases, boats like the one we saw, you would provide a sort of green light for these rarely governments to continue with campaigns as hundreds of bodies a day pile of as we see entire parts of gauze or reduce trouble. i think it's important to understand you that it's not just about whether or not the us as leverage. i mean we have good evidence. they do, for example,

the watson both reported uh, you know, a week ago that when the internet shutdowns were reversed, it was in part because the us pressure led to that outcome. but the reality here is it's not just words. united states government provides $3800000000.00 in military aid every single year. so there's a real risk of complicity of the us government providing arms. these rarely governments, given the real risk, they'll be used to commit grave abuses that could make the united states complicit in more time. so alternately, we do not know the answer to the question of us leverage because we haven't seen them actually use the leverage. they have which is primarily in the form of this military a but in many cases being used um to, uh, to different the fuel this campaign. okay. as well as the same question to you. but i also joseph, why is the us not using it leverage? why is it refusing to use the words these 5? why is it not want to see israel held accountable for his actions? and i think it's a great question. i think this one, you know,

clearly seems to be an issue coming from president biden, from the highest level of the ministration we are seeing, you know, reports and evidence of a voice of the set and the government. but ultimately, we have to remember that this is not only harmful for civilians and israel palestine, but we're really seeing a test of international law and it's international institutions. the repercussions of humanities failure in gaza will reverberate, far more wide, legal undermines protections for civilians. i mean, the law we're talking about emerged out of the ashes of world war 2 as a way to minimize the harm to civilians, internationally mentoring laws, not a deal between fighters. it's a deal with humanity. and if we fail to defend that deal in gaza, it will undermine protections in ukraine, in sudan, across the world. joseph, as you said before, it was, is highly unusual for m. s f. to get involved in the way you have cooling directly to your government, to take a stones to get to intervene in a different way of,

of then it has their all growing cools around the world from at least the groceries up for a ceasefire. how long come these leaders hold out for how damaging is it going to be for them if they don't listen? well i what, what we're witnessing. we still have 300 the doctors and nurses and laboratory technicians and so on working in the hospital this mean they're, they're exhausted. they're, they're terrified and, and you know what? they're telling us every single hour is that there are, there are still hundreds and hundreds of wounded patients coming into this, the hospital, those ones who are still that are still functioning, as we know many of the hospitals including some that i'm at that where we're supporting i've shut down because they've been hit in air strikes because the fuel has run out. you can run the ventilator for uh for, for respiratory reasons. you can't run dialysis machine. you can't treat cancer, patients without electricity. and then the,

the shortage of supplies that we've seen closure after after closure. the hospitals that are still functioning are still seeing these waves of injured people come in and many of them are children. so you know what, i hear a military representatives talking about how they're using precision weaponry and how they're taking steps to, to protect the billions and make this distinction between combatant, the non combatants. i can't square that with what my colleagues are telling me our by our how children and women and civilians are, are coming in constantly constant flow of injured. there's even a, a new knackered acronym. you may have heard this acronym, w, c, n s f. when did the child know surviving families? so this phenomenon has now become so common that they've created an acronym for children who are arriving into these medical facilities with severe injuries when burn wound, and, and terrified and screening for the,

for their parents and for their families because they, they've lost them. so, you know, yeah, you asked about well yeah, yeah. when could defeat fire happen or what will it take? i mean from, from our, from our side we can just tell the world that what we're witnessing is in green just and continue with a brutal attacks on civilians in gaza. so a ceasefire is the only thing to me to call for the human rights watch to, to continue what joseph was saying about the hospitals being targeted. i'll she for hospital, particularly. we know at the moment and goal is a city is being surrounded by times has been target says it's been this way. it was cool for it. some thought to ation human rights, which has said that the patients, the thousands of patients and 5000 patients, people sheltering that some 50000 people. they have a grave risk. why do you think these hospitals are being targeted as well? so i think these really government is again showing its callous disregard for

civilian life and failing to adhere to the basic principles of international humanitarian law. hospitals have special protections. it is not enough to make a claim. and by the way, a claim that has not been cooperated by human rights watch that these hospitals are being used for military purposes. the laws way clear that you must show a higher threshold, which these really government has not met. in addition, it is ineffective to issue and what a warning when there is no safe place to go on gods and more over. you can treat northern gods as a free fire zones. the people who cannot or do not evacuate, continue to maintain the protections of international humanitarian law against indiscriminate disproportion attacks. our warning, as we saw tanks on satellite imagery rolling closer and closer to ship hospital, is because we see a systematic disregard of internationally mandatory law. not just since october 7th, but in the years in decades prior,

it's critical that we're leaders asked to prevent further mass atrocities. by the time we speak again, we could see further of this only concerted action from world leaders could possibly bring us back from the help we're witnessing joseph, just to go back to that point. that's above mentioned, these hospitals a have special protections and was, and of course as well says that thomas runs as operations from inside and, and i'll see for hospitals it says it will present, have come on as wind tunnels on the ballot provided satellite pictures to prove it, but that's not conclusive evidence. you must have for all the has a bands units and i'll see for what you have. you'll people working that is the ever been any evidence of how much working in and around that hospital. i mean, what we know and, and what our people are continually relating back to what is that these hospitals i'll see if in particular, but the others that are still functioning as wells are completely inundated with

civilian. so they describe how, you know, the words are no longer words. you talk about the burden, the only the only room that is still functioning in its original function is the, the operating theatre and the operating theatre completely in, in the, in, in data which is why, you know, surgeries are happening on, on the floors in one instance the a 9 year old boy had to have a amputation just in the court or in the middle of the hospital without proper tradition, without the proper tools, with his 13 year old sister watching in horror because she was also injured and waiting for her turn. yeah, the behaviors are completely filled with civilians. many of them are injured or sick and in need of medical attention. many others have come to the hospital to seek some form of a safety and shelter because they know they're just being out on the streets or being in their, in their homes, is probably that much more dangerous. and they know that hospitals must be protect

the site, so they're coming to these. so you know, when you ask about the titles and i'm, i don't know what i know is that there are many thousands of civilians that are in the hospital grounds. and that cannot be, there's no justification whatsoever whether humanitarian law or just straight up morality that would justify the bombing of disability. well, we've heard john cubby of the us also say that as well does have an obligation to fully comply with international know repeatedly seeing it. not doing that a book. it's not enough to, you know, read or write the parties have to abide by international measuring law. that's an important morning. but when parties are methodically failing to do so, you must condemn the war crimes that take place when you come to water and electricity to an entire civilian population for the actions of individuals. that is the textbook, collect the punishment. it's

a war crime when you deliberately block the entry of life saving age a. that is a work from the united states as credibility is on the line here. when you make pronouncements about more crimes in one context, the very same nature which are being committed in the other and you'd be able to call it out. that undermines not only civilian protection but one's own credibility . in addition to that, it's critical that states call for accountability. we're here precisely because of the years of impunity for unlawful attacks and for israel's apartheid against palestinians. so account ability, whether it's new crane or whether it's impulse that must be central to what's going on. and finally, we must address the root cause this year, and that includes is really a part time against palestinians. so long as we fail to call a spade a spade call reality what it is and fail to end all forms of complicity and we're bound to watches or find nightmare repeat over and over again. and joseph, what one does is being $35.00 days now that as well as being bombing because the

strip thousands upon thousands of targets have been hit. millions of people have been on the move. as we know, thousands of people have been killed. how long? kind of israel continue pounding, such a small, densely populated area without the international community stepping in. well, that's just that imaginable, you know, like every hour to discontinue it is carnage and so on. imaginable, through, to think too far into the future. the actions of, of the canadian government so far have been weak. i've been slow. you know, now we hear okay, it's a good idea to start talking about positives. we already talked about how insufficient pauses are they are no solution in this circumstance. just this last monday we lost a colleague and a laboratory technician. he was in his home, uh, in uh, in one of the, one of the refugee, uh, sites uh with his family that the building was, uh, was bombs. uh and,

and he was killed along with many of his, his family members and another doctor surgeon, a colleague of mine. i took the white board and one of the hospitals that there where we used to write down the, the list of the surgical cases for that week. and i just wiped that board claim because there are just so many hundreds. it's just chaotic and you know, we can't do systematic surgeries the way that we used to wipe that board clean. and if that put simply the words we did when we could remember us and you know, it's very working under conditions of extreme threat and extreme danger. and so every moment that we, that our politicians and political leaders talk about pauses and maybe push forward the notion that if we just get a humanitarian aid in there, that could be a solution. it's absolutely not a solution. the bomb it has to,

it has to stop the siege warfare have to stop and that we will leave a discussion for today. thank you. to english, a cat and joseph bell of you for joining us. i'm trying to policy who had to leave us just a little earlier. i'm thank you 2 for watching. you can see this program again, any time by visiting our website that's onto 0 adult calm. i've had a discussion, do you guys? well facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a inside story if it wasn't during the conversation on x or handle as as a j inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team, him, it's bye for now. the the the

that the the, the, the that you gotta live as a general comes in with it and i get to why. yeah. and i believe, i believe the most of the start

the israel continues its relentless attacks on the hospitals and gossip. there's heavy setting in the vicinity of the indonesian hospital in the north following multiple attacks on the main gates i'll see for host hospital director says they will try to bury the dead on sites in a mass great. the.