a lot of time, the searching thoroughly and wirelessly had been damaged equipment. the source, each car kept us waiting, then there was shooting and we took a color behind do jeeps and despite the violence that is follow the october 7th from us attacks, palestinians. their positions hardening, say it serves as a reminder of their enemies weaknesses. is really forces of killed more than $200.00 people in the occupied westbank since the events of october 7th, the idea being keep up pressure on palestinians here prevent any retaliation for does. but it could be a strategy that his back firing because frustration is growing. incidents like this add to public anger and is really soldier approaches a most near rumbling, just before friday morning. prayers throwing a sound grenade in so unclear to and also on friday to palestinians were shot at

a checklist north of hebron. others killed during an attempted attack on these rarely soldiers. the 2nd such attack on a check point in as many days they were using small hand made some machine guns synonymous with past uprisings, the hours later, the dead to rest in the occupied territories for, for the plight of the fire, they must h. c. raise the martyrs up, let the whole woods refusing to be ignored, refusing to go quite the same. beside the old 0 remo can be occupied by me while i'm old price. so being held across the middle east, in support of palestinians. thousands of demonstrations gathered in jordan's capital a month to cool for a cease fire and gaza. 11 on crowds also gather to show solidarity, who are passing in, protest as to now since rails occupation of palestine and the war, and garza and protests were held in several cities in yemen to demonstrate,

has condemned. israel's continued as strikes of civilian areas, civil society groups in south korea being riley for the place of palestinians. but then the strangers placed hundreds of shoes on the streets of the capital sold pay tribute to the palestinians whose been killed, possesses and the united states block san francisco bay bridge. sharing the morning rush hour to demand to cease firing. garza, about $250.00 protest reduce that cost to stop traffic. to is the demonstration was held as opposed to enjoy abroad and host of well leaders for the apex summit near from san francisco. okay, that's it for me, the fuck, i must go on our website. i'm just there. a don't comes up from is next to the to submit to the world. slow down. we stand firm as homes with tests of global

nichols reserves. indonesia is points to leave the global, the battery industries. we definitely manage our abundant resources and play a role in solar energy harnessing, offering 75 percent of global carbon credits essential. committed to environmental protection, enhancing investment climate, digital licensing, your better tomorrow. this would be october 7th attack israel's leaders have invoke the historical persecution of the jewish people to justify israel's ongoing siege of god. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu called from us as a massacre pope, the worst act of anti semitic violence since the holocaust. instead that just as the world united to defeat the nazis, it must also stand united behind israel to the feet from mass. but as the dead told him does, it continues to rise in some experts wonderful potential genocide pretty except started questioning this spring or jewish history and anti semitism being

weaponized as something in the jewish community claim. that discussion is coming up and upfront the giving us to discuss this is amanda barto is really american professor of holocaust and genocide, studies at brown university, stephanie fox, executive director of jewish voice for peace and homework. but the political analyst and commentator and former deputy director of the american institute. thank you all so much for joining me. i'm going to start with you of following semesters attack. both is rarely and western officials have repeatedly invoked israel's right to defend itself. us president biden's anti semitism on void deborah lips that went further saying, quote, no one has the right to tell it is real how to defend itself. but israel's responses had devastating humanitarian consequences. states have the right to defend themselves with in the live it's of international law, but they also have to consider proportionality. but where is the line between

israel's right to the bins and the total that it's taking on the palestinian people . mark, i'll take a step back and say, even before we get to the question of proportionality, is to remember that israel as an occupying force and gaza, gaza has been placed under seats by israel for more than 17 years in which life and gaza as miserable people there was no economy this because half the population is unemployed. but most of the water that is in gaza is undrinkable, and they don't have the right to have an airport for a seaport or trade with the outside world. that is the reality for gaza and successive is really military operations and gaza have killed literally thousands of innocent people, including hundreds of children. more than 300 children in 2008, 9 more than 550 children in 2014. and so when we asked the question of the right to self defense, the most obvious question that's a come up is do palestinians have the right to self defense and as an occupied people who are living under a brutal military occupation,

there is no question that they do, but obviously nobody thinks that how mass is attack, which included tremendous harm to is really civilian that anybody could consider that to be an act of self defense. similarly, let me ask the question about that because there are people, particularly is, is really advocates who would say fine, the west bank is occupied, but israel moved all the troops. the settlers left in 2006. this is from us as issue if there's, if there's violence in dallas, if there's a problem and guys it's not, is occupation it's, it's from, that's what he said. it was look and being an occupational place does not just mean taking settlers out because israel is literally in control of everything that goes in and out of the gaza strip because they're not allowed to function or have access to the outside world without as really permission nothing goes into gaza without his real permission. nothing leaves garza without israel's permission. and again, there is, you know, if, if it's, if you're talking about israel controlling it's on border or egypt controlling its own border, that's one thing. but when you say garza is not allowed to have an airport and gaza

level, have to have a c port that the last time a humanitarian ship tried to come into gaza to deliver some aid is really soldiers board of that ship until 9 people on board including an american citizen, you can pretend that because it is a free place that is up for the people who live in a tremendous future because it is under occupation. and that's the reason why the when and many other human rights organizations also considered garza to continue to be under is really occupational. so let me, let me bring you in here. many have pointed out that october 7th was the most lethal attack on jewish people since the holocaust one, which is the writer, adam she has put it triggered the role as part of use. psyche, the fear of annihilation. can you help us understand the psychological impact of the masses attack us. listen, every single one of the 1200 is really is murdered by him. us that over $200.00 kidnapped, are precious and sacred, you know, on a human level. and as

a jew with loved ones directly harmed, i of course, understand the desire to feel like the clock has to stop, to feel engulfed with the pain and horror of what are obvious atrocities and work crimes. but i think that when you speak about that sort of sense of triggering a core and sort of primal, jewish fear of annihilation. but that's not a new dynamic for us to be talking about in the context of the israeli government or it's oppression of palestinians. right? we have to understand the ways in which the israeli government, from its outset has been set on abusing the history of jewish suffering and using it to justify more and more oppression and dispossession of palestinians. and we've been taught as jews, the palestinians are somehow the rightful inheritors of the blame for genocidal european christian anti semitism in the hollow cost while never deemed worthy of

their own. and that the basic fundamental longing palestinians have for freedom in their own homes for survival in their own indigenous lands is falsely represented as rooted and hatred for jews instead of love for family love for community love for the lands which they belong, you know. and so i think that in this moment we see in twining in the intertwining of jewish trauma and palestinian trauma, that we have to start understanding both the way that the history has been twins and intertwined. the way it's been pitted against each other and our responsibility to look at both and not the and european responsibility for the holocaust ones on there. you're an expert on genocide and you have talked about your concerns or a regarding the responsive is rarely leadership to october 7th. you said that they're showing, quote, genocidal intent which can easily tip into genocidal action. you pointed to the

fact that on october 28th, a prime minister, netanyahu said, quote, you must remember what i'm gonna like did to you. this of course, is a reference to a tar a passage where after surprise attack died, commands the jewish people to kill every man. woman an infant. that's a story. we're failing to eradicate. the enemy nearly leads to a jewish genocide. that is to say the least provocative rhetoric. what do you make of it? what concerns you about it? um, let me, let me start just by saying the, the, the mazda tag on october 7th, was a true parenthesis tag that could easily be defined as a crime against humanity. and as it will crime. and the question you asked earlier about self defense, i think every state has the rights and often to, to the, for self defense. and so the question is obviously the framing of it. there's

a loss to but um, so there is actually an issue of a major attack in which over $900.00 civilians were killed as well as $300.00 soldiers often and atrocious way. so that is one part of the that we have to keep in mind. and the sense of in security and that is, it has instilled in the entire community and israel and the rhetoric that has come from as training political leaders. you've, you've mentioned that to the, out the many others as well as some military leaders have echoes of genocide. it's, it's, it's actually sounds like an intent to carry out genocide. now the question is whether the actually doing it, and i mean we can go into greater detail my, my sense is that there is a huge disproportionality between the ministry goes to the intro was to achieve,

which is to destroy at least administrative, for structural from us. and the number of civility is that it's a skills including it seems thousands of children so and it's far larger scale than ever before. so this indication of what kinds there's indication of trying to go through man and see whether there is a 10 genocide. i think we have not reached of point, but one thing has to be printed out of israel has forcibly evacuated about a 1000000 per cent in citizen from the northern gauze trip to the south. think of the street it's claims to do that. to protect them from minute to action, but the result is that you have no shoot congestion of people without the appropriate infrastructure. it just says winter assessing. and so that can be seen as ethnic cleansing, which often in the past in several cases, roughly cleansing,

because actually led to general side. so this is what we have to watch out for and one against. and that's what i've been trying to do for me is to do anything for many of us that the human is ation of the language and the actions. and the idea of i nearly $5000.00 palestinians children have been murdered in a month. many more hundreds, maybe thousands, top stuck under the rubble of dying slowly while those who are dropping the bombs are talking about how these are human animals that use. like i've talked about triggering a chord, jewish understanding of what is, what is the purpose of deeply dehumanizing language. and so many of us in the jewish community who i take the exact opposite left and from histories of oppression are pouring into the movement, demanding of ceasefire, demanding an end to the root causes of all of this violence. because we feel

absolutely compelled to say, you know, never again is right now since october 7. israel said we're trying to get rid of from us fully with an internal government document uncovered by hebrew outlet shows that as early as october, 13th to these really governor was already considering expelling guys as population into design. i desert saying that doing so, would you quote long term strategic outcomes for israel? one is really think tank, said that probably on october 7th, there was quote, a unique and rare opportunity to evacuate the entire guys the strip. what the past 6 weeks tell us about israel's actually motivation to look. there is no question that the fantasy is really politicians mines is to drive all palestinians auto because they always looked at gaza as a problem that they don't know how to deal with. and if they sustain the current level of destruction and damage, but it's taking place full over the gaza strip to the point where it can literally no longer sustain life. you may end up in

a situation in which to literally save the lives of people who are currently in gaza that you end up forcing them to basically leave in order to set up a quote unquote temporary living situation elsewhere. and then prevent them from returning. stephanie, you talked about context before getting it, some of the root causes that, that us to october 7th that created these conditions. uh, other people have done that and they haven't gotten a great response. i mean, he's really government was yours after you in a secretary general, antonio gutierrez said that the tax back from us did not happen in a vacuum. the palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating our occupation with some is really officials actually accusing. consider as of defending a mass activist, expressed, consolidated with palestinians of similarly, been accused of defending her mazda despite the fact that only a small minority of actually voice support for the group. and many, including your group had been accused of having a pro, her mouth sent him it for asking to consider again the system,

a violence of all your words that let us to october 7th. and what's happening here, how are these messages somehow being conflicted with support? for from us, you know, it's critical that we understand that for palestinians, october 6th, october 5th, october 4th. and every day for the last 75 years have been a day of great emergency and violence. but in the time, even just in this past year, between january 1st and october 7th is real had till 250 pounds spinning is including nearly 50 children programs were so frequent in the west bank. but we as an organization, we're having a hard time responding quickly enough because really military, it bombed. do you need refugee camp? like we, you know, i've done this work for 15 years and i have never in my life been in a state of such emergency over the past year of just constant horrifying violence by these really stayed by these really military by settlers working locks in lock

step with those forces to attack or press and violently harm and kill palestinians. and so he so readjusted to suggest that the mere mention of those causes the mere attempt to end violence is in fact somehow um, anti semitic. or somehow disregarding of our deep care for jewish legs on their israel's un and baset are glad in dine, has repeatedly worn a yellow star of david like those that use the force to wear during the holocaust. he's wanting to meeting that the un security council, but many say that comparing modern b is real, that the plight of use and nazi germany is actually a false analogy. how do you make sense of those kind of competing narratives? well, you know, shortly before the suck, uh, there was a program and the program was, it was in the, in the person in town and it was found. and it's more or less was according to how

you define a program that is that there is a month that a tax and minority population in, in a, in a certain territory. and this is what happened in the late 19th century and early 20th century, to jewish communities and ukraine and russia. then when the, how most of the happen, then much of these really media quoted, the pogo. and that was meant really to revoke those memories and to say, well, you see now we are experiencing what we have always experienced. it's as i submit it gets an anti semitic attack. and there's nothing you can do against anti semitism, but to fight it. the if you can talk with that, i see much. now of course it was not the problem because the problem is an attack on the minority. and in this case, the, the whole point of sign is a bit hope point of creating a joyous state with a response to part with them. so the jews with have as out as,

as honors. and so it's a jewish majority states where the army would be jewish, the police would be jewish, the government would be jewish, and therefore that would not be any problems. so quoting the, the attacker from us, which was an atrocious terrorist attack, the problem is basically flipping things around. it's like quoting $911.00 and paul group, it was a terrorist attack, not a pop up. the same thing happens with genocide. i mean, i've heard people claiming that the, the amount us of talked with a genocide and now many people matching in many cities think that is a genocide and gossip to being gentle sides of statements showing intent. and when you define genocide, you have to show an intense to destroy a group, a search. so intense is actually being shown through the statements, whether that is actually happening on the ground. that is whether there is intentional targeting of civilian population rather than indiscriminate bombing.

the brings about the killing of lodging because people of civilians in a sense of it is that it has to be the basis. i'm not sure if that is the case. as i said, i think clearly the war crimes happening potentially crimes against humanity, whether it rises to the definition of genocide. i'm not sure, but i don't think that says it's math is a great deal. alma look at least, may agree that the intent has been expressed. now let's look at the actions and what they actually show. you have a situation in which this international but our report saying that entire families are being wiped out. entire bloodlines, multiple generation of the same family have been obliterated off the face of the earth. and when you look at the history of how many children are killed in different complex, you look at what happened to new cream. about 5, just under $500.00 children were killed and ukraine and the entire 1st year of rushes, warning crane. and what everybody acknowledges,

included war crimes and massive indiscriminate bombing of, of ukrainian areas. and we looked at what's happening and gaza. a 136 children are being killed every single day. you are looking at a ratio of more than a $100.00 to $1.00 compared to almost any conflict that has happened and reset memory. those numbers are absolutely horrifying. and the extent to which half the housing units and all of gaza have been either completely destroyed or damaged. you are looking at a scale of destruction that if it has not stopped what will make gaza unfit for human living. so the question for me is whether you called us to genocide or not will depend on whether you stop it or in time or not. however, it is absolutely genocide old violence that is currently taking place that if it's allowed to continue, you are going to completely destroy palestinians ability to live in gaza. stephanie antisemitic attacks have risen in recent years. and since october 7th, we've seen

a number of disturbing assaults on jewish people. there was a stabbing of a jewish woman in, in leon, there was a dag, as done mobs storming in airport in search of jews at the same time, many have characterized cause for cease fire as an anti semitic and have accused jewish organizations like the j, v. p, jewish boys for peace, of being anti semitic. in recent years, organizations around the world have adopted the i h. r a definition as the international. how the costs, remembrance alliances. definition of a anti semitism which deems speech against the state of israel as anti semitic. a holocaust scholar amos goldberg, cause the h r, a definition catastrophic and says that the is really right, has use it to completely change the discourse. i'm gonna get your take on this also on this uh, what does that mean? which well is how we have this truly orwellian world in which a march has happened this week. but supposing to be up against and are coming to

them. but it's actually a pro war valley that is headlined by the one of the most powerful anti semites in the us pastor john hagi who has said that god brought hitler to punish choosing to drive them into israel and has been working for decades to bring about what he hopes will be a world ending apocalyptic religious war in the lands. you know, it's how we have marjorie taylor green of jewish space. laser fame of all things. i'm starting the ball rolling on what would become the shameful censure of our only palestinian american member of congress proceeded to leave for fighting for the lives in rights of palestinians and israelis in equal measure. you know, so we have organizations like the anti defamation league, shutting down anti apartheid student organizing in the name of your safety is insane. you know, we see them actually collecting their understood as somehow to be the data collectors about anti semitism in the world. but using that, it's already definition and using their own slander, as of additions,

they actually are collecting the incidence of the largest jewish protest in decades that are here fighting for a ceasefire for peace. there there. documenting those as incidents of anti semitism . so we have this upside down funhouse mirror situation of intentional confusion about what anti semitism really is. and that is incredibly dangerous in a moment. when white nationalism and, and anti semitic ideologies are, are driving violence against the jews. and again, smartphones and people of color is essential that we'd be clear on what happened. semitism is and on what it's not about our movements are fighting for a future of a freedom and safety for all people without so much only want to jump in. let me, let me, i'm gonna give you a chance to jump in. i'm gonna just like to piggyback on one thing. that's that the only thing that i think is really, really telling whenever israel's thoughts committing more crimes, there is also a rise in that they submit a tax. and it is baffling that leading organizations rather than distance

themselves from these war crimes insist that these war crimes are speaking in the name of the jewish people. that is just lunacy. it tells you that they are less interested in combining at the time. it isn't and they are more interested in running interference for promoting is really policy at this time. it does, it is a very serious and rising problem in this country and to play with it. these silly political games and to water down to that charge by linking it at people who are trying to defend human rights and stand up to our crimes, i think is, is an incredibly dangerous. oh man, you know, to, is really, professes the most go good. whom you mentioned, and i don't confess, you know, and then myself joining them. i actually responded to the ira technician that has been used by the. is there any government creating a separate definition that you're the jerusalem declaration on, on, on the 7th of that,

removes those sections that try to say that any criticism of the state of israel is anti semitic. but the solution is being successful in being adopted by many governments, including quite a number of european governments. and it is a, with an ice ation. 5 is ready government of anti semitism in order to defend itself from any criticism of its own policies. do you know i'm a story and so what i find most ironic about it is that the state of israel was created as a response to, as i said, most of it was supposed to be the stay thing would choose would be protected from other services and as i submitted, the tax andrews would, would no longer have any russia now to them. and the result right now is that just as israel right now is the most dangerous place for choosing the well. it's also the to the main cause know for and to submit the contents. nobody should condone

those that they submit a good tax. but i think as a model is saying, when the state behaves in a particular way and in the class itself to be the state of the jews, then this has a particular effect on jewish communities around the world. you could say that was most true because right now a anti semitism around the world is the conduct of the state of israel itself. stephanie, we've seen jewish organizations at the forefront of the ceasefire. moving in, are we seeing a growing diversity of opinion within the jewish community when it comes israel? i mean, absolutely the the, you know, protest movement that over the last month speaks for itself. we have thousands and thousands of jews of all ages. certainly young people of course, but of all ages pouring into the streets where, you know, the movement for palestinian rights and freedom of jews have always been a part of where and all. so we've always been a part of so many movements for,

for justice and freedom. and we bring all of that history with us into this moment in which it feels like everything we've learned. everything we've fought for all of our lives must be brought to bear to end these historic atrocities that we're seeing. all right, that's all we have time for. i want to thank you all for joining me. oh man, stephanie alma, thank you so much for joining me. it's great having a conversation with you, everybody that is our show upfront. we'll be back the it started out as a normal day, but as is often the case in the occupied with back, it turn it up loud, do you want to do thoughts? so we were happy, it was a good day, then our car broke down. we got out to see what was wrong. the soldiers thought we were going to throw stones. they started shooting at us. i have took 3 puts in his right arm, the abdomen, and his left foot just

a few months ago. a man and his brother where the, where did team doing and now you rate the currently more than a $180.00 minus has in these rainy jails. many for as little as throwing stones at soldiers listing it to them or potentially headquarters. so this is the mentality by which they are, you know, sense of $310.00. but as you mentioned that maybe of the premiums are taken to prison inside israel. parents need to apply for a visitation for me through the red cross. and that could take up to 3 months. in the meantime, the mine there is cut off from the world expo 2023. the fast to make sure make sure you

join us and let's discover a better world expo 2023. the news, [000:00:00;00] the co new pocket, this is the news our life from day was coming up in the next 60 minutes. the director of gods is l. schiffer hospital tells which is 0, some new bones, all the patients and intensive calf now died. israel says it's allowing 2