the fishery obama? the the, just the cut down here, the most of my what do you handle? who do i know they will tell you why do you decide is this of you know, 1st the yeah, well the image of us we love this is just another follow up, but i just need to ship out. would you be shipping the, the

because she's kind of like, you know, the name of the quality bubble disorders or the issue of a new and she's on global the go to bed. it was good. then we'll just sort of showed all, most of my dish of auditors or what and the love of what is the

true and that what you've just seen was a snapshot of what journalist run me about your moose. and his 2 year old son will lead saw when they fled their home from north and gaza to the south. they are now in hon. eunice in southern gaza. that's it for me. several then a, we'll have more continuing coverage for one cause the needs of the our up next i also 0 is the bottom line extension the expo 2023. the world,

the fascination of joint and let's discover a better world expo 2023. the ha, a hi, i'm steve clements and i have a question. israel's war in gaza tearing apart the democratic party in the united states, especially the youngest voters. let's get to the bottom line. the doesn't is real, have a right to defend itself, is what it's doing. now, self defense is this real. committing more crimes. should criticism of israel somehow be legal, how we're palestinian supposed to gain their freedom after decades of being occupied and scattered in the diaspora. all of these are important questions is us

president joe biden right to stand with this real with no red line? how many more supposed to die before there's some kind of a permanent ceasefire? these questions and more are being seriously debated around the world. and america is no exception in congress on university campuses inside news rooms here on social media and on the streets. the debate on palestine, israel as eclipse, almost all other global crises. so where is the middle east conflict taking american politics? today? we're talking with katie, help her host of the katie help her show and ryan graham, washington bureau chief of the intercept and author of the squad, a o c, and the hope of a political revolution. so ryan, let me start with you and thanks for joining us. today both of you, how hard is it to have a real discussion, a fair american style, 360 degree discussion where we entertain views. there's sometimes uncomfortable on the israel palestine crisis today. if you are centering half of the debate for

expressing their position in that debate, you can't have that debate. it's remarkable. i saw somebody say recently that the 2nd person ever centered by congress was censured for introducing a congressional resolution to end slavery to have. and that's what that is. one of the only times that a member of congress was centered for speech and even that was an act introducing an actual resolution. what were she to, to leave has done here is, is, gets censured for speech. and so to have a debate to say here, here is where i still want to pause. yeah, you know what, i want you to tell our viewers that they may not be following every, you know, twist and turn in american politics. what happens with where she to sleep, what, what is sensor mean and how important is it? so currently censure means a lot, but i think it's going to mean increasingly less because of what just happened. and what happened is that uh, well, 1st of all, it is a, it's

a legislative maneuver inside congress that has no teeth to it. it just all bark is it just says that the sense of the house of representatives is that this person is bad for this particular conduct. but it's done so and frequently that it has maintained some potency among members of congress so far in late persons language. they're saying to this individual member of congress, we distain you exactly tell, telling them that they, they do, they do not belong within the confines right of a reasonable and respectable people. really. and people have seen what emanates from the house of representatives. big, big dream is that you'll hear, you know, coming from all over the place. the part of the concerned about her comments is her concern about calling joe biden. you know, part of the genocide of kind of coming in and, and attacking many people within her own party. that's before you get to this, you'll palestine issues. jamie raskin, who is now one of the top democrats in the house kind of gave the, gave

a speech on behalf of rashid, in defense of rush to get to leave saying that he thought that some of what she said, particularly her use of the phrase from the river to the say, he called it a point and he said, but i would never discipline her as like, like, like a child for saying it. you know, if she's going to be disciplined by anybody, it should be by the voters back in her district to either support or reject what she, what she says when she's representing them in washington. she's been elected back into congress multiple times since 1st being elected in 2018. and so you can disagree with what somebody says, but to actually discipline them and try to stop them from saying it means you're never gonna move beyond the place where you're at. now because when jamie raskin told her, i think the support your, what you said is important that, that enabled her to then say, here's what i mean by river to this, the, i, i don't understand what you're saying. here's rank, here's what i'm saying. and you're not gonna move forward without that right,

katie, i just want to ask you, because you've been a victim in this to of how hard is it to have an honest discussion, even if it, you know, that tries to open peoples aperture is as to just jumping on a team. right. and so i, i think you're referring to the fact that i was banned and fired from the hill where i used to appear every week. the show rising because i need a video. i wrote a monologue, but they didn't let me era it had their elsewhere. but basically, defending receded slave and her claim that is realism to parted state. and i made the case that it was indeed an prototype state by the definition of apartheid which exist. it's not really a subjective question and people ranging from south african leaders to is really prime ministers themselves have acknowledge that it's a part tied. so i definitely experience firsthand the century as uh, the atmosphere in which you are allowed or not allowed to talk about these things. but of course, you know,

i want to be clear that the people who are most suffering from this are the people of guys or the people in palestine, error of americans. we're being told that they don't matter, that their pain doesn't matter. mazda of americans and the very people in gaza who are right now being ethnically, cleanse bomb that with their homes in and ask that i agree with receive this play. but i think this is a question of genocide and i'm not a genocide expert, but i defer to the experts in this be all to have said that a genocidal. one interesting thing is that often the hardest thing to prove with genocide is the genocide on tests. and israel has done the world a favor by making their genocide on 10 clear by saying out loud, you have the president saying that there were no civilians. basically, he actually said this rhetoric of civilians is ridiculous. all these people are responsible because they bought it from us, which is a crazy thing to say because the last election was 2006 and half of the amount of guys this population is children. you had netanyahu citing the bible

and on the left and making these comments about wiping out men, women children suckling the oxen. if you've had the justice minister talk about human animal. so it's been very clear. and i think rashid it's way is right. i think was painful is not what receipt it's wade has that. what's shameful is that the united states is complicit in these acts of genocide that are taking place in gaza right now as we speak. so let me ask you this, you know, i read the press as best i can and tell him, be from the political right to the political left that, you know, try to cheer to be a regular ticket to understand what's going on. and i see a very robust debate going on in israel, but when i see similar debate go on abroad, people pay a price, right? you are how you have received a slave being punished for saying something that you can say in how are the one of the leading is really newspapers?

i mean, i'm have family and is real. i'm jewish. i lost family to the holocaust. i understand the that what happened october 7th was incredibly painful for effect trash here. that also does not mean that you are able to commit war crimes to events, those feelings, and of course history doesn't start october 7. a lot of people in the media are framing it as if it does, but there is an active occupation. and part of the reason that i'm off was able to make the gains that they made on october 7th, is because so much of the army was at the west bank, helping settlers harass feel the olives and pill palestinians. ryan, i'm interested in why all of his passion on college campuses in newspapers, wasn't there the day before. and you've written a book called the squad a o c and the hope of a political revolution. and you identified as i understand it. this divide over palestine be one of the formative elements of identity of the squad. well before

this incident happened, so tell us about that. and it actually came externally of it came from the outside . another was, it came from outside the squad when, when the squad, and also just as democrats, that kind of tell our audience who those quite is. so the squad would be to alizae, andrea, chicago, cortez, johan, omar, rashida, tully and i, on a presley. it has since expanded to include people like courtney bush, uh, jamal bowman, summer lea, uh who, who you've seen the among the most kind of, outspoken critics of, of israel over the years. but when they started in 2018, i talked to the founders about this israel palestine was not at all central to what they were doing. they were trying to raise a minimum wage. they're trying to get health care for everybody. they're trying to do a green new deal focused on climate change work in class issues. the basically the bernie sanders agenda from the 1st time he ran for president that included palestinian dignity. it wasn't that as if he had completely ignored it,

but it was not by no means central his campaign. in february of 2019, just a couple of days after they were sworn in you had the launch of this group called democrats dumped democratic majority for israel, which was basically spun out of a pack a pack as i'm sure your listeners knows them. the major kind of pro israel lobby here in the united states, but it wasn't involved as a super pack in elections. it wasn't spending enormous amounts of money in individual races. it was collecting from people and people would donate to candidates, but it hadn't yet become a gigantic super pack, so deified of the preventive breaking years. now the is really military has found the alpha chorus school in the northern gaza strip. now this is the united nations run the school inside the giovanni, a refugee camp. this is also the 2nd school that was bombed since friday went up to a straight to a correspond to the on the ground topic. i was, and he's in con eunice,

that's in the southern part of the gaza strip topic. we're watching some pretty awful pictures in the optim off of this strike. now this is a school, as we've been told in the jabante refuge account, we know that they have been multiple as strikes taking place in that camp over the course of the last few days. tell us a little bit more about what we know happened here. yes, i'm value a refugee camp has been bombarded again. why do you say the occupation forces? i'm this time a new united nation schultz. i had been completely attacked by the is many of forces. what people are taking shelter inside this school. now, with the ongoing got tracks that took place in the north and gaza strip, the majority of people tend to united nation shelters, have the vicinity of the institution hospital in order to be protected from these really occupations by a may wild goose whose must be protected by the principles of the international, lo and there are also must be at least be saved from these very relentless attacks

that took place. people were taking shots of that and meanwhile are suffering from best to, to literally a situation including the humanitarian and even the medical condition that people are still generally till now inside the school and, and just and different schools into about your refrigerator and the subject considered to be not the only effect that took place on schools, but it had been carried up some of the attacks before. and schools and patriotism, hospitals with the tank, which clearly i believe google is that is really sick and who to, to push people to flee to the south of gaza strip on foot. meanwhile, southern areas, how missing the same level of apartments as the nose of gauze astray tie. i've found to be just want to apologize, 2 of us who are joining us now. some of these are pretty graphic images. some of them has implied, but these are obviously the latest pictures that we're getting from the scene of the optimum of that strikes. so i apologize if you are being disturbed by some of the images you're seeing. obviously, there are some bodies that and we are seeing some children also on the same topic.

tell us a little bit more about what's been happening at your body because this is a school, as we've been saying inside that can i'm not comp has clearly been a target for these ratings. a yes, down here richard, you can generally and a normal days is very densely populated. area, some of the residents inside this. where could you come had slipped to the south of golf district? i think is reputation forces recommended. what others did not find me safe? schultz, i so they left the houses the left, the farms to left the lands and the one to take shelter. and you're not to mention a fleet of schools named wild. i'm not even protected in the united nation schools . and they have been multiple hits by the occupation forces. it's also important to understand that each school in the most or even in the south of gaza strip is very crowded with people. it seems and you have talk that will take place and start one of the schools with coast catastrophe crossing lives and also will cause such

dramatic change in the situation of the north where people are taking shelter, of course, till now. the power of city administered held ambulances, trying to do the best in order to rescue the people will have been targeted by the it's been occupation forces weights waiting for further information from the palace to the minister about the find the number of different injured people. but similarly, as it's going to be much more crowded with people, it's expected that the number of people who are going to be wounded in due to this, i will advise and even the medical teams to now on the back to reaching victims communication of the targeting me, as you say, attack the very, very, very densely populated pause of the very dense who population cause a strip, not just a flag. one of the other things you mentioned is that this was an owner or a school or you and run facility. and people with, with that seeking cells, and now we've heard from, under themselves, that they no longer feel that they can offer protection to people under the u. unplug. we were hearing this from, from the goal is a direct object just a couple of weeks ago. they've also told us that they provide the coordinates to

all of the shelters, to all of the schools, to the as rarely. so they know exactly where people are seeking shelter. these of civilians who been in a un run school as you've been saying that have their parties that as of women and children, do we have a sense target? i know this is a difficult question of how many people are now left in northern cause that obviously tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands have now fled south without also from baldwin. it's taking place, but how many people are left up? know yes, there are still people of the most of the goals district we are talking about thousands of people who refused to flee the houses. meanwhile, the occupation isn't trying to talk old means of lives surrounding those people in order to force them to new, to no more have options to remain in the notes of gaza strip. thus they will be a force to evacuate to the south of victor 3 as they are 1st also to work for long

distance in order to reach the southern areas, which is a far away from the northern areas with doses of kilometers, which will really be a very dangerous and risky journey for dues in the notes of the 2 or 3 as the redid running glow and fuel water and even they are facing a severe problem in terms of having access to fluid. they are talking about very catastrophe, company consequences on conditions. they are witnessing of the nose as there was there any humidity or an 8 had been delivered. and also people that they say that we don't have any of us they've shown to go. we are in how houses we have been bombarded. we went to the hospitals, which also was attacked, were attacked on the same time, leaving the much a nation shelters are not yet a safe place for so they are trying to push them to move to the south. meanwhile, similar attacks had been, had been carried out in the south of the gods track, and tara q. it was saying that this is all part of a strategy to push people south people. so obviously, just over the course of the morning seeing the forced about tuition of how she felt hospital complex causes largest hospital people, there several 1000 people being,

being forced to leave, including doctors, medical stuff, and patients. can you give us a sense of where these really military strategy is? now we've been hearing that there is this push south kaylee they, they feel that they're trying to take control of the knolls. give us a sense of when it's ready, troops right now and without fighting has taken place. a yes. these very troops on it 1st leaving its spot to the ground. the vision for the eastern areas of gauze. the steps are talking about the eastern areas of by time noon, the north west of bay class, you have the course amount of the church rates as they managed to reach out to richard to come with a tillery bombardment. i'm been diminished to access that she felt a hospital and as the access to she felt hospitals, they were forced to deploy snipers and the arts, taking full controls over the facility over she falls with them now they made different kinds of rooms inside the building. so that she felt hospitals were doctors are not yet able to move freely or without feeling any threats between the

buildings and the departments of the hospital. and it's also worth mentioning that the doctors and psych hospital patients aren't even one to display. people are on the safe as there are still be babies and people in the site this hospital and even if they have a forward to, to be evacuated to the south of the territory. they need to, they need to leave the stance. and there's gonna be a note of arrest from the march of these patients. and there are around 500 patients who can really effectuated lives. the food is a very good humanitarian and even meant to come across by the medical teams yet until now. they did not reach the south of the gaza strip. and even if you reach this also, the goal is district, especially for babies. there are no any a safe place for them as, as the interest that you just inside the most for hospital, the only hospital in this house which can receive, there was a pre meant to bite. this is a whole occupied. you are talking about tool interfaces. 6 of them were occupied

surface means that there is going to be a kind of compounds in terms of the number of the babies will, must receive the medical treatment and this house of losses trip power couple is during the, with the latest for us on what looks to be a devastating as strike on a school in northern gauze that thank your topic. well, if you are just joining us here on to 0, i do apologize for the graphic images that you'll watching this some blurring that, but obviously launched, potentially very large desk told at the also cor, a school in the northern gaza strip. which we understand the as rating ministry has very recently problems. now this is united nations run the school in the devali accounts. this is also the 2nd school to respond to just since friday. so let's bring in my own bossard. he's out of here as senior political analyst. moment, i mean, we've seen so much civilian infrastructure being hit by is really as strikes you've been saying, this is, this is a war and hospitals. it's also a will on schools,

on shelters, on home as well for who the school is like a shift hospice on the sense that for her to school is like the shift of schools in chicago. okay. it's been bombed, it's been targeted like a she fall as in fact before the is there a to spend? no, just come on. the various media outlets to explain and to lie about what's happening for hold on just now. got us in mind, a lot of yours around the world that this scores in this refuge account has was bombed in 2009. it was bombed in 2014. yeah. it was bombed fairly, in this month in november. 4th. the fact that a score is not just a fact, it's bombed from the air to, which means there is absolutely nothing discriminant about the fact that schools that show those thousands of people. yeah. there's been bon from the air that is meant to create damage, human loss,

suffering. and that's because when you attack a hospital with such a concentration of people taking refuge, you refuge in the school, you are sending a message that is more than i am uh, going off that i don't know what, how much fight there's here in there. what it's saying is, i want people to be different. now i want people to pay a price. i want people to die. so once again, just to some, what i saw, our view was around the world. don't get confused about some details or another. this school was bombed in 2009, 2014 and 2023. and this is the 2nd time this month that has been boned. and we're seeing that the human total is that right now screens. what is the job of a refugee camp now to is really forces clearly that there's a huge, a minute to focus on this refugee come in front of us from around the world. what does it mean? city is really on the, you know, just generally speaking, a,

just for our viewers around the world who, where of a certain age, i would say something like, it's right though. you know, a spot us time. right. like sway to south africa. i mean, it is a, a place where it's of course, that refuge account, right. so it's another one of those refugee camps. and clearly it has been trying to rebuild itself. and when it was destroyed in 2009, they rebuilt it again. in fact with outside health, but the people in ref, you're infants, and your body have been sped trash throughout these various consider this as one point and all that in the us as, as some kind of a resistance to. but clearly the money in the hospital has absolutely nothing to do that because we, we saw the images anita on the look at what in fact happened and who died. course dozens of people died in each and every one that we know at the time. right

now clearly this is just another massacre. another slow to of people. it happened in the front of our eyes. but once again, i mean on the line that, that spec 6 being use. the strategy by these ratings is on the one hand, they want to cause as much damage as possible. they want to make sure that none of their soldiers is in any which way and which probability as on, in harm's way. so they've gone from the air bombing from the air and not from drones or headquarters, where at least you can see clearly closely, and you started getting 2nd thing when you're bombing from the air. that means you are binding a wide area of geographically speaking and that in a place where 6 shoulder, thousands of people. yeah. it's meant to get as many people as possible. and my one, i know that our audience isn't listening to the audio of this,

of this video. we have been getting that translation for you here at out of their english. and we're hearing people the in that video talking about being hit overnight while sleeping. let's listen because you can also not only hear people talk about what happened. this strike took place overnight. well, people was sleeping, but you can also, not only can but see children that you all set seen for the parents. you can have children calling for the parents who want that. nope, no one you've been saying that this is obviously one of the most densely populated parts of one of the most densely populated parts of the wild. is this policy of a broad policy of the population of the northern costs of stress? it's looking more or more likely. i mean, you know, as the say, uh, i hate to use such uh, uh, savings now. but if it does, you know, a clock like a dog and a dock and walk like a dock, then you know, it is probably as such and,

and the weight is right is, has been though, is there any window? is there any admitted that he has been handed and gets us? i know it's getting that justification from is really part of fissions. clearly there is intense ethnic cleansing. clearly there's incent, revenge. clearly, there is intense punitive measures against an entire population and that's why strongly important once again to contextualize, what is it that we're seeing? so in the past 6 weeks, we're seeing bombings of hospital facilities and even a fax or hospitals. we're seeing bombings of schools. we're seeing bombings of mosques. we've seen bombings of a church. we've seen bombings of residential buildings, all of that happening in plain sight. in other words, this read is getting coming, or not industrial scale. this is no longer than what they call hand to hand confrontations. this is on the hobby with

a wood that incredible firepower that firefighters not just these rates america. and in fact, looking back at some of the reports of game item 20092014, the people and guys as message that as of the world was american jet fighters are bombing us. my one, let me ask you, you've talked here about potential ethnic cleansing as we've seen, literally in the, in the last day or so. 36, you and special rough ortez funded less a saying that there is clear evidence of genocidal intense that this is potentially a genocide in the making the cooling on the well to do more what more couldn't well do right now given the space of, of, of politics on way that countries and making the decisions can something like this, what we're seeing now in a school. the death told of women and children is something like that going to shift opinion or is it a little just a bit too far gone. but this is,

this is the thing so. busy the so called international community order, i placed the hypocritical part of it. the western powers had been making statements about this. and one, i'm sorry to interrupt you so quickly into around so that we are now getting translation of a of an on run press conference tomorrow, i'll sorry. who is a communications direct to add on? right, that's the u. n. agency for palestine. refugee is giving a press conference on the phone right now. let's listen to it. but these receive the a namely those from alpha. hold up the view in school, especially for alpha florida, event type. no type. i'm sure i do, we carry on with the capacity of this hospital is very minimum.