the medicines are running out of the our base loose. we could see all the testers. the guys are with them buddies explore and abundance of the world class program. i don't think we have another decade before. machines are smarter than us . it's time to raise your lot international. so make us and world class john and bring programs to inform in spying on challenges here. america shown unwavering support. so as far as one concept critic site is highlights its double standards and could be a turning point in the world or is the us strategy short sighted damage because the warning flicked on americas global stand. this is inside story, the hello the on james base washington instead for support. israel is allowed to sell

to him, palestinians, and garza is shifting global perceptions. several analyst and arab leaders of will in the us risk, severe reputational damage in the region. if it continues to back israel, while it's false is bomb hospitals, schools and refugee comes initially west and pals were united in the support israel's right to self defense officer, the hamas offensive and early october. but the sheer magnitude, the destruction and killing and gaza, has seen several countries change. the stones and the bites administration is being criticized for fighting to pressure israel to declare a c swap. the us is no longer the world's only superpower. the emotions of several new allowances could challenge american dominance. so why does this leave the us on the international stage in this 1st national address following israel's war on golf the last month president joe biden acknowledge the significance of the will for the united states. a refreshing inflection point in history. one of those moments where

the decisions we make today are going to determine the future for decades to come. american leadership is what holds the world together. american alliances, what keep us, americans say american values, what make us a partner the nation you want to work with? put all that at risk and we walk away from ukraine. return our backs on israel. it's just not worth to. a recent poll shows the majority of americans 9070 percent back a ceasefire, and israel's war on gaza. this is significant, particularly ahead of the 2024 elections as the us gives israel and then the full $1000000000.00 a minute create every year. accusations of hypocrisy or another challenge for the, by the ministrations. critics say that us has double standards. it's focused on human rights in ukraine, but disregard them in gossip. china and russia have long calls for change in the global. all the questions being raised about where the country is looking to pull new alliances well, team up with them to challenge west and don't well

let spring, you know, a pedal of guess to discuss this further in boston around me. corey, as i'm far as institute distinguish fellow at the american university of a route run. these also the also all the us pivots away from the middle east fact or fiction in london, someone will romani, an associate fellow at the royal united services institute and the military. i'm j, a political analyst and in washington dc. james, jeffrey, a former us ambassador to iraq into tia and chair person of the middle east program at the wilson center. thank you, gentlemen, for joining us today on the inside story program. we just heard president biden back. let me just remind you what he said. we are facing an inflection point in history. one of the moments where the decisions we make today are going to determine the future for decades to come. he was speaking 4 weeks ago on october, the 20th about to the jeffrey. i'm gonna call you james from now on. um,

do you agree with him or your wife? uh, the core american role in the world since 1947, 48. and we haven't read many different roles. is to maintain a global collective security system to ensure. busy the major global actors do not stop nothing out of the states destroying our views from mazda is language extinguish, other nation states, because that puts us down the road to worldwide. why don't know why to that is the most important issue for us foreign policy. joe biden sees it and is absolutely right. okay, around the country, that was 2 weeks into the war. we now 6 weeks into the walt, rather a lot has changed the death toll and gauze it has risen dramatically. it's not even being counted anymore. israel has besieged hospitals and raised rate and re did the

biggest one. israel is also despite the 2 thirds of gauze as population. and the un is now saying that the risk of starvation and chronic disease, do you think by now finds himself on the wrong side of history? i think he probably does. i don't, i don't think by the far american leaders really understand history. that's the real problem. they've had so little of for themselves in terms of global engagements, other than a military engagement and traded. and so there's a real problem and how the united states deals with the world i use the phrase of the us deals with the world has markets or targeting some markets for trade of targets to attack or to sanction. and the record of the united states, the central world war 2, has not been very good in terms of using its military and the discounts down at rack and syria and other places. so there's some extra porch, they support

a product, countries all over the 3rd world. so instead of preserving the states as, as the mass of jeffrey said, the united states was actually helping autocratic resumes a hollow their stage from the if you look at places like egypt and other places around the world that the us supports severely. and we see the consequences a bit smaller. it's important for really which is expanding tension and warfare and the us something huge amounts of numbers are hardware to, to lose. and so there's a room problem and how the us analyzes and engages with the world. some of the old lots of speech in the oval office was also about the war and ukraine. you've written, the book pretends more on you cried, and you're a chronicler of the last 20 months and you cry. and we'll get to all the details as in a minute, but on the, the, the inflection point in history. do you agree with barton? what is it obviously versus full scale invasion of ukraine in february 2022 was an infection fine. and modern european. yesterday it was,

it was the reason that i saw on the sovereignty of european states since the end of the 2nd world war. and russia is also described as inflection point to the bottom level order. when you look at the statements or the last problem or give it to me baby, i'd be very often see that this invasion of ukraine is the start of a challenge to the us. let the whole order and the start of a new multiple order direction. in china, but also empowering the brother level so and by may think is searching upon the fact that now sovereignty is being breached, you know, more flagrant fashion. and that's definitely a problem for the cold, cold water. but they're obviously also get american double standards is rarely pointed out that may get his message even though i have heard of this already question, i've been hired for many across the world. the pounds. james, if i can ask you about the bombardment of gauze or in the scale of the compartment of gaza among the high level jobs that you were held in the us system, you were the us special representative of syria and the presidential envoy for the

global coalition to counter these, i'm excited the rock and the band isis i. so i and i know you took up those jobs off to the back little rock up. but if we compare what happened in rocca to what happened is in garza that were 1600 civilians killed in the us coalition. aaron artillery strikes, now i know those on us because if it goes from amnesty international and from ad was. but even if you take those biggest pipes, you dispute them. that means that israel is killed 10 times that number in just 6 weeks and the, the rep, the record come pay went on for 11 months. that's correct. and there are reasons for it. i would also say a better example because it's a biggest city was most of which i also have looked at closely in 2016, 2017, where there is some 10000 civilian casualties. uh, 1st of all, uh,

israel did not have the time that we had in 2016, 17 or 2018 and beyond. uh, with the islamic state, its mobilized, its in part of its entire workforce. it is facing possible escalation uh, in the, not possibly from iran. and so it moved in, in a very, very rapid way. that the nature of guys and i've been there, i've seen no place in the world. it is more crowded with more people and how much that is true policy of using a sugar williams as human shields, putting their installations inside these areas has led to these 5 casualties. what the administration is trying to do is to minimize these, particularly now that the is really sharp. she used control of most of the north of uh, uh gotcha. but do you think these high casualties up, too high? are you on easy about them, james?

anybody who is not an easy about casualties, particularly civilian casualties. uh that is not you know, looking at this in a humane way. but i also look at what are the alternatives. i also know we're going to talk about casualty, because i was involved. most of these was some 1000000 people kill, interact syria. uh yeah, man, uh since 2003. uh, and 15000000 displaced. uh, this is extremely dangerous. major has been splashed 20 years. uh and uh, it requires as soon as possible uh much more stabilization, much more security than we have right now. but of course the us prides itself on respecting the rules based international. oh, that doesn't sit around me in some of those central rules. the rules of all the geneva conventions, isn't israel with this indiscriminate bombing breaking those most fundamental rules?

yes, it is. clearly, it is on many respect to international groups of independent kind of groups. i've said so many people on the outside of the belt and visuals as well, and the people in turkey and everywhere. that's all this is very common. but the problem is that these rules were made by victorious countries after world war one. it was more true and they really are not followed very, very diligently about the drivers were correct to say that, you know, in the last 20 years we've had all these really messy situations in the region. but i would argue that in the last, the right one of the reasons for this is for the last 200 years and stuff. oh, we've had almost nonstop western military direct intervention or manipulation of stage. and socrates economics systems, military ties, leaderships in the, throughout the whole mentally. so there's

a real serious problem and the integrity of the advocacy of sainthood and sovereignty and citizenship across most of the countries and other countries in the middle east and phone direct military involvement is one of the reasons for this, as well as a local research, particularly the continuation of a 100 years of age designers, expansionism set on the subject while peptides expansion which has reached the peak now and israel's. busy us is the government policies, not freelance roads, the government's policies and g as in the, in the west bank. so that at some point the world has to stop the issue and bought a tubes and the really good, serious if you want stability and peace, you have to do what happened in northern ireland and in the southern africa and then a few other places. what types of decisions were made to change existing patterns and policies about real of security and fees because it was based on justice for

all. there's no sign of a in the region on this. certainly no sign of the last 3040 years of the united states monopolizing out of is really piece making none of the catastrophe of the us . i got a letter, the search for a permanent resolution after the fighting and guys on the west bank by the way, after it stops. james, i saw you smile a little off when rodney was talking about secular cleanliness and why? um, for the last 200 years of western military powers have moved into the entirety of the not themselves. america, although, so uh uh, a sub saharan africa and entirely of east asia or except a part of china. and that's a reality all around the world. not just any memories, nowhere else to we see anything i on the line, anything like the cottage we have seen in the middle east. not just the last 20

years, but think of the 1980s but the ran around. busy or with the soviet intervention and again, a span and other conflicts. it is a big streamline, stable region whose political leadership and possibly outside intervention is not worthy of the people who are suffering it uniquely in this region. now i've had on this program in the last 6 weeks, we don't have an international lawyer here, but i've had one on many, many days. and i haven't yet found one who doesn't believe that israel is probably breaking international humanitarian law. in other words committing will crime, samuel, you're there in london, all the u. s. s. allies getting uncomfortable about this? well, i think that we're sorry. do you notice obviously some efforts, the distance from us policy towards is reality and conditional support. i think early on within the european union, they were a few voices like ireland and stain, or really calling for an immediate cease fire,

really challenging israel's cognizant gatzo. and now we're seeing more countries follow that way. i think you might not cross a boat against the united states and the united nations general assembly over the uh, that piece resolution that was sponsored by jordan and then the comments about the killing of children and women and suggest so that rach, even in britain itself, i think the dismissal as well. the river mentors, obviously, also way to is kind of unconditional support for praise. you know, being challenged december main. britain is also a bit more conscious certainly voting against us than the settlement issue. i've seen in other resolutions. so there definitely is frictions within the western alliance law, but the frictions really haven't boiled over. there's only a small number of states like being in iowa, they're still calling for these fire within the black west. now biden is commander in chief of sense and the margins of the region by my account. it's 2 aircraft carriers, at least 10 warships, a nuclear submarine, a detachment to marines, a numerous fight to across to. but if he's trying to look strong,

the problem is that every time he says something to israel, israel is not listening on the humanitarian pauses on bringing more right in on bringing fuel. and now finally the going to buy a little bit of fuel on what happens at the end of the spring and the palestinian authority. and would you agree rami? yeah, i think there's a real dilemma from the united states that it is the only country that has really, really trust. therefore it has to be centrally involved in any kind of effort for piece making that might be provide. but there's a lot of it is that it's also the major backer of the of the barbarian policies that is really the mid able siege them destruction policies, starvation that israel is now implementing, and the software colonial archive system that zionism introduced into this region. starting in the late 18 eighty's continues today you'll see it on the west bank and gaza. that's an extraordinary legacy of law. stop violence,

design 2 hours to palestinian indigenous powers. the initial or 9 is to be 94 percent of the population a 100 years ago. in college time, and that is really a zionist, is really a mr. have a jewish state. they succeeded the created the jewish majority states, but they haven't stopped. and this is one of the reasons the people in the middle is, but also really most of the 3rd world, most of the south a don't believe or trusts the united states on it says we wanted to stay solution. i wish that us really been to work for a genuinely equitable tuesday resolution of the conflict that addresses the cordon age of both sides. we've offered the our world has offered that many times and peace agreements piece offers. but the us has a real problem with that, so that's, it's can be a peacemaker. if it's the principal back or of the whole making your views on not james a. hi. he certainly has

a point where this is really government. it is hard to imagine a government that has views more different than those of kilobytes. but i would say that that's this government. there's a history to this. the united states did as a poor, very strong with the all the records and president bill clinton put much of his presidency on the table to try to get one clinton's view. and he is repeating it many times is that there was a deal under a 1000 yes or r o clock time. well, we speak so we spoke about at the beginning of the program 4 weeks ago in the oval office, wasn't just about the word. garza was also about the war in ukraine, and you could argue that this is presidency. lensky is, was nightmare. what we've seen right now. listen to what he said in a recent interview. of course, roger understands the know when focus from the green. you know, the,

when these formulas to the middle east and when they try to divide the world in these crisis is ro, policing prizes. and of course, of course, right, these, where are you happy with this war? so what the one, the just want to do, why the world? so presence might just be this, samuel, this is was not mad or isn't it. the attention is gone away. that means the, the money and the weapons probably aren't going to come in the same numbers. well, i think it's more of a political rather national military necessity construct. in fact, biden is repeatedly said that the states is the most powerful country in the world . the only super power taken on both the israel and dependent west. but in practice being so actively involved in yours and also upgrading the usa industrial machinery to something of a war footing is very difficult to do in the luxury here. already seen the all kinds of that the do a squeeze on supply to ukraine. congress has admitted that home is holding after

you create and israel a bell has led to the white house having to admit that there's really smaller a package is coming forward. that aid will be fine, and we're also seeing problems with the delivery of artillery shells, especially because israel has asked for an official glass. it'd be $7000.00 a $155.00, and then shell going their way. and those shelves are directly diverted front of your brain to the israel is. so there is a significant drop down to support at a time when you create the counter offensive installed. and the russians are escalating events of operations and that'd be got so, so, and he's very worried james, i mean, we come back to the allegations of double standards. now, i think because biden is cold. well, russia is doing a genocide. he's condemned attacks on hospitals by russia. he's condemned bombings of civilians by russia, and he's condemned the false transfer of civilians by russia. people will be asking why is gauze a different the people sure, in the fault is joe by much as i like him, entered, working for him,

he gets to a future. i was a 1000 percent behind everything he has done the international community used on for you train, but i, and i know there are options well from syria and elsewhere. but i was very unhappy when we're using such language was criminal and genocide against the russians because i knew this would come back and what this, this is a direction as spelled out in the nuremberg trials against the stay of your train. just like what we had on the 7th of october, but where's the aggression against the state of israel? both purposes were to wipe out the exchange. that's the issue. i was nervous about genocide. then i remained nervous about genocide being used in the context of uh uh, israel. let's look at rushes position on global events. remy co seats. not any

longer, a supervisor power, but perhaps has been bullied by the war in gaza. seems to have thrown the side. it's careful diplomacy with israel for years and taking quite a strong position on this rule of you could say they're accurate accusations of hypocrisy that was, well, oh, absolutely, i'm a most big powers professional i but it says it comes with the dna of political leadership in the western world, i'm probably, i'm in the south as well. this is normal, but so i don't think we should worry about what people say and if it contradicts what they do that this applies to to everybody. i think of the bigger question here . and this is what the us and by not really having to confront them, they're not confronting his is the united states mandated by anybody to be the of a maintain or of the global order. or you said of the beginning of the us or whatever . i think the gym said that the us wants to maintain that post world war 2,

or it's like it's trying to do us probably want to do that, but nobody has given to the man that the u. m. has the members to do that and they don't understand. she is facing them by who's facing a real serious problem, which is gonna hurt more than anything else, which is his democratic party is fracturing. and it's fracturing how long age orange generational ones are young people are wildly against what is happening and in the palestine and the gas on the west bank with direct demand consent board and the, the pressures are gonna impact the democrats in the democratic. busy these and biden's electoral fortunes in the elections likely next year if things don't change. so we have domestic pressure as we have international customers. i don't think they might have states. leadership has the ability to address these issues and having it towed here on the way it will. it will continue to bring in the navy on the, on the air force on some of the special forces and talk to him about flip the boys

about it. so, and are given permission to sort of, to support the good people in the world. so this, this has very little credibility anymore. but the world can't do much about it when the united states uses its power. the way it does so that we did a much more sophisticated global coalition of like minded additional countries under us as a decent country, except when it comes to its form policy, which is military base and supporting autocrats. but we need a better international mechanism to achieve the global harder, and that can only be based on social justice on equal rights for all parties. and this is not what is really loves honors more about. and this is not what the united states has to board. is can practice on board. so of course they supported impact. okay. james, i don't want to, i'm coming to it right at the end, but i don't want to leave china out of this discussion. it is the all the major power in the world. how do you think china sees the war on?

because because traditionally it's not being it sphere of influence, but we have seen them involved in the region, particularly with regard to that repulsion all between saudi arabia under, on briefly, china wants to ability in the region. it's not ready to play a big military or symmetric role and it needs to regions psycho kabbage. but more importantly, and this gets to everything we've been hearing a little what's happened in the last few days. china has met with president by the chinese caved on an important american demand, which is military communications. but even more importantly, for the 1st time in 8 years, china several weeks ago agreed to talk about ballistic nuclear missiles with the united states. why? because what china seas is, if the united states responded back to train, if it's been a back, a israel, it will also back tie one. this is a serious international play

a we take it seriously. so when i hear about the global cells and us losing international opinion, i say, how it's china treating us now. they're treating us like a very serious, important partner, rob me finally to you, given a very important partner, do you think china and the other will power is all going to let the end of this conflict. the us run the show as they have done, and the policy has the to us is talking about a 2 state solution, but it's sort of a binding. the idea of a 2 state solution went round the palestinians in recent years. yeah, of course, and everything that us has done in terms of its policy is to israel and the palestinians in the region. and the last 20 years has allowed the 2 state solution to die away under the weight of as rarely non stop supplements. but they weren't china and others are going to try to play a more constructive role if they can. china already has done the same between the wrong and so the right be and other things in the region. but the reality is that

nothing will happen. an arrow is rarely diplomacy without the us being somewhere near the center of it because they're the only people who use rarely is trust. obviously this is one of the problems that we have. so i think that has to be a more serious search for a multi lateral approach that allows us to maintain a central role. but temper has its negative attitudes and war making a pros rarely as something mentioned tempers. let us show that both of the arabs on these really can actually achieve equal rights on this as well. really, we have to look for everywhere. and the world additionally happened with an international mandate. you can't be unilateral decision by the us saying we want to do this, so i would look for more activision bar global powers to see what they can do. sign q rami very much in thanks tool i'll title us for joining us today. raw me, cory. some of the romani and our boss, the james jeffrey, 24 hours today i'll just or will continue to report on the war on garza with all

reporters around the world in israel and the occupied westbank and on the ground in gaza. you'll also find more context and analysis on our website out. is there a dot com? what should we discuss next time on the program? let us know your suggestions on facebook page. about facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story on on x. the social network formerly known as twitter, well, at a inside story for me, james base and the team here and go all see you again soon. bye for now. the how much was oh my god. okay, let me feel good about the really how i do

have you been actually in your task oh, i use when i when, when they're leaving and any of them actually i probably not a lot more to

see any but there was a little the a dozens of people are killed in this race like only you and one school in gauze is to find the a refugee camp many of the casualties of women until the end of them are a kyle, this is 0 life from tow. how also coming up? survivors of the devante a strikes overwhelmed the engine easing hospital in the northern parts of the strip fall $1300.00 pounds to it ends up being killed.