the, the, the thinking that the, some of that was news now origin. tina's governing coalition candidate for president has conceded defeat to follow right outside the, have you had mulay, supposes of the 53 year old economists celebration has victory in the streets. and as touching what he calls economic shocks therapy by slashing spending. stories of a has moved from the capital one, i'm sorry, we're here not far away from the headquarters and the hundreds and hundreds of people continue to arrive here to celebrate that he's going to be argentina's next president car ride time today. have you had a as promise to make radical reforms in argentina? the economy don't arise thing the economy, shutting down to the central bank to fight against storing information. among many other things. we're talking here now witnesses. she voted for. have you ever been

a part of our party? what do we need to achieve? my country was very upset with the live powers. you know, this year and i wanted to be well, she's the return of the democracy. and i hope that my with wishes to heavier thank you very much. you can see the environment, the people, the kind of the man who's promising radical reforms in argentina has made it to the presidency. promising to shut down the center brand to fighting states and arguing times i've been struggling with around a 140 percent in place and rates in the past year, making it very, very difficult for many origin time semester. and to me. so lots of promises by javier to relate the big point it is whether she would be able to carry them out

and out of what cost. that is how i just see the site is probably and costs are the why for, for me us present. jimmy costa has died at the age of 96. unlike many previous for us ladies, mrs. cause is that in on cabinet meetings, spoke house on controversial issues and went on to advocate for women's rights and mental health for, for classify me says she died peacefully, also living with dementia and australia, beach in india, to win the cricket world comp for a record 6th time and doable, doubtful. just 240 runs, essentially from travis head, helping us trying to reach the target with 42 bowls to spat. or that's it from me, laura. kyla, is that possible at the top of the out? the so many politicians want to be the republican party's candidate for to any stand

a chance it gets donald trump, if our planet is burning and we're running out of time, why aren't we doing more to deal with climate change or american politics just getting to your wife, intuit screen for most americans. for quizzical look us politics. the bottom line. this the october 7th attack, israel's leaders having both the historical persecution of the jewish people to justify israel's ongoing siege of god is rarely prime minister benjamin netanyahu called from us as a massacre pope, the worst active anti semitic violence since the holocaust and said that just as the world united to defeat the nazis, it must also stand united behind israel to the need for man. but as that told him, guys, it continues to rise and some experts wonderful potential genocide. critics have started questioning this spring or jewish history and anti semitism being webinar as someone in the jewish community claim. that discussion is coming up and upfront . the giving

us to discuss this is amanda barto is really american professor of holocaust. in genocide studies at brown university, stephanie fox, executive director of jewish voice for peace and home of the god of political analyst and commentator and former deputy director of the american institute. thank you all so much for joining me. and i want to start with you of following some masses attack, both as rarely and western officials have repeatedly invoked israel's right to defend itself. us president biden's anti semitism envoy deborah lips that went further saying, quote, no one has the right to tell it is real how to defend itself. but israel's responsive head, devastating humanitarian consequences. states have the right to defend themselves within the limits of international law, but they also have to consider proportionality. where is the line between israel's right to the bins and the total that it's taking on the palestinian people. mark, i'll take it a step back and say, even before we get to the question of proportionality is to remember that israel as

an occupying force and gaza, gaza has been placed under seats by israel for more than 17 years in which life and gaza as miserable people, there was no economy to speak of, half the population is unemployed. but most of the water that isn't gaza is on drinkable and they don't have the right to have an airport for a seaport or trade with the outside world. that is the reality for garza and successive is really military operations and gaza have killed literally thousands of innocent people, including hundreds of children. more than 300 children in 2008, 9 more than 550 children in 2014. and so when we asked the question of the right of self defense, the most obvious question that should come up is do palestinians have the right to self defense and as an occupied people who are living under a brutal military occupation, there is no question that they do, but obviously nobody thinks that how masses attack, which included tremendous harm to is really civilians that anybody could consider

that to be an act of self defense. similarly, let me ask the question about that because there are people, particularly is, is really advocates who would say fine, the westbank is occupied, but israel moved all the troops. the settlers left in 2006. this is from us as issue if there's, if there's violence in dallas, if there's a problem and guys, it's not israel's occupation, it's, it's on, that's what he said. it was to look and being an occupational place does not just mean taking settlers out because israel is literally in control of everything that goes in and out of the gaza strip because they're not allowed to function or have access to the outside world without as really permission, nothing goes into gaza without his real permission. nothing leaves garza without israel's permission. and again, there is, you know, if, if it's, if you're talking about israel controlling it's on border or egypt controlling its own border, that's one thing. but when you say gaza is not allowed to have an airport and god does not have to have a seaport that the last time a humanitarian ship tried to come into gaza to deliver some aid is really soldiers

board of that ship until 9 people on board including an american citizen, you can pretend that because it is a free place that is up for the people who live in a tremendous future because it is under occupation. and that's the reason why the when and many other human rights organizations also considered garza to continue to be under is really occupational. stephanie, let me bring you in here. many have pointed out that october 7th was the most lethal attack on jewish people since the holocaust one, which is the writer, adam she has put it triggered the role as part of use. psyche, the fear of annihilation. can you help us understand the psychological impact of the masses attack us. listen, every single one of the 1200 is really is murdered by him. us that over $200.00 kidnapped, are precious and sacred, you know, on a human level. and as a jew with loved ones directly harmed, i of course, understand the desire to feel like the clock has to stop, to feel engulfed with the pain and horror of what are obvious atrocities and work

crimes. but i think that when you speak about that sort of sense of triggering a core and sort of primal, jewish fear of annihilation. so that's not a new dynamic for us to be talking about in the context of the israeli government or it's oppression of palestinians. right? we have to understand the ways in which the israeli government, from its outset has been set on abusing the history of jewish suffering and using it to justify more and more oppression and dispossession of palestinians. and we've been taught as jews, the palestinians are somehow the rightful inheritors of the blame for genocidal european christian anti semitism in the hollow cost while never deemed worthy of their own. and that the basic fundamental longing palestinians have for freedom in their own homes for survival in their own indigenous lands is falsely represented

as rooted and hatred for jews instead of love for family love for community love for the lands which they belong, you know. and so i think that in this moment we see and twining in the intertwining of jewish trauma and palestinian trauma, that we have to start understanding both the way that the history has been twins and intertwined. the way it's been pitted against each other and our responsibility to look at both and not the and european responsibility for the holocaust at once on there. you're an expert on genocide and you have talked about your concerns or a regarding the responsive is rarely leadership to october 7th. you said that they're showing, quote, genocidal intent which can easily tip into genocidal action. you pointed to the fact that on october 28th, a prime minister, netanyahu said, quote, you must remember what i would like did to you. this of course, is a reference to

a tar a passage where after surprise attack died, commands the jewish people to kill every man. woman an infant. that's a story. we're failing to eradicate. the enemy nearly leads to a jewish genocide. that is to say, the least provocative rhetoric. what do you make of it? what concerns you about it? um, let me, let me start just by saying the, the mazda tag on october 7th, was a true parenthesis tag that could easily be defined as a crime against humanity and as it will crime. and the question you asked earlier about self defense, i think every state has the rights and often to, to the, for self defense. so the question is obviously the framing of a, there's a mazda, but, um, so there is actually an issue of a major attack. and which over 900 civilians were killed as well as 300 soldiers

often and atrocious way. so that is one part of the that we have to keep in mind and the sense of in security. and that is, it has instilled in the entire community and israel and the rhetoric that has come from as training political leaders. you've, you've mentioned that to the, out the many others as well as some ministry leaders that has echoes of genocide. it's, it's, it's actually sounds like an intent to carry out genocide. now the question is whether the actually doing it and mine, we can go into greater detail. my, my sense is that there is huge disproportionality between the ministry goes to the intro was to achieve which is to destroy at least administrative, for structural from us. and the number of civility is that it's a skills including it seems thousands of children,

so on the far larger scale than ever before. so this indication of what kinds there's indication of trying to go through man and see whether there is a 10 genocide. i think we have not reached of point, but one thing has to be printed out of israel has forcibly evacuated about a 1000000 per cent in citizen from the northern gauze trip to the south. think of the street it's claims to do that. to protect them from minute to action, but the result is that you have no shoot congestion of people without the appropriate infrastructure. it just says when to assessing. and so that can be seen as ethnic cleansing, which often in the past in several cases, roughly cleansing, because actually led to general side. so this is what we have to watch out for and

one against. and that's what i've been trying to do for me is to do anything for many of us that the human is ation of the language and the actions. and the idea of i nearly $5000.00 palestinians children have been murdered in a month. many more hundreds, maybe thousands, top stuck under the rubble of dying slowly while those who are dropping the bombs are talking about how these are human animals that use. like i've talked about triggering a chord, jewish understanding of what is, what is the purpose of deeply dehumanizing language. and so many of us in the jewish community who i take the exact opposite left and from histories of oppression are pouring into the movement, demanding of ceasefire, demanding an end to the root causes of all of this violence. because we feel absolutely compelled to say, you know, never again is right now since october 7. israel said we're trying to get rid of from us fully with an internal government document uncovered by hebrew outlet shows

that as early as october, 13th to these really governor was already considering expelling guys as population into design. i desert saying that doing so, would you quote long term strategic outcomes for israel? one is really think tank said that following october, 7th, there was quote, a unique and rare opportunity to evacuate the entire di, the strip. what the past 6 weeks tell us about israel's actually motivation to look . there is no question that the fantasy is really politicians mines is to drive all palestinians auto because they always looked at gaza as a problem that they don't know how to deal with. and if they sustain the current level of destruction and damage, but it's taking place full over the gaza strip to the point where it can literally no longer sustain life. you may end up in a situation in which to literally save the lives of people who are currently in gaza that you end up forcing them to basically leave in order to set up a quote unquote temporary living situation elsewhere. and then prevent them from

returning. stephanie, you talked about context before getting it, some of the root causes that, that us to october 7th that created these conditions. uh, other people have done that and they haven't gotten a great response. i mean, he's really government was yours after you in a secretary general, antonio gutierrez said that the tax back from us did not happen in a vacuum. the palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating our occupation with some is really officials actually accusing. consider as i'm defending a mass activist expressed, consolidated with palestinians of similarly, been accused of defending her mazda despite the fact that only a small minority of actually voice support for the group. and many, including your group had been accused of having a pro, her mouth sent him it for asking to consider again the system, a violence of all your words that let us to october 7th or what's happening here. how are these messages somehow being conflicted with support?

for from us, you know, it's critical that we understand that for palestinians, october 6th, october 5th, october 4th. and every day for the last 75 years have been a day of great emergency and violence. but in the time, even just in this past year, between january 1st and october 7th is real had till $250.00 pounds spinning ends, including nearly 50 children programs were so frequent in the west bank that we as an organization, we're having a hard time responding quickly enough, because really military, it bombed. do you need refugee camp? like we, you know, i've done this work for 15 years and i have never in my life been in a state of such emergency over the past year of just constant horrifying violence by these really stayed by the israeli military by settlers working locks in lock step with those forces to attack or press and violently harm and kill palestinians. and so he so readjusted to suggest that the mere mention of

those causes the mere attempt to end violence is in fact somehow um, anti semitic. or somehow disregarding of our deep care for jewish legs on their israel's un and baset are glad in dine, has repeatedly worn a yellow star of david like those that use the force to wear during the holocaust. he's wanting to meeting that the un security council, but many say that comparing modern b is real, that the plight of use and nazi germany is actually a false analogy. how do you make sense of those kind of competing narratives? well, you know, shortly before the suck, uh, there was a program and the program was, it was in the, in the person in town and it was found. and it's more or less was according to how you define and program that is that there is a month that a tax and minority population in, in a, in a certain territory. and this is what happened in the late 19th century and early

20th century, to jewish communities and ukraine and russia. then when the, how most of the happen, then much of these really media quoted, the pogo. and that was meant really to revoke those memories and to say, well, you see now we are experiencing what we have always experienced. it's as i submit it gets an anti semitic attack. and there's nothing you can do against anti semitism, but to fight it the you can talk with that i see much. now of course it was not a problem because the problem is an attack on the minority. and in this case the, the whole point of sinus and that whole point of creating a jewish faith with in response to part with them. so the jews with have as out as as autism. so it's a jewish majority states where the army would be jewish, the police would be jewish, the government would be jewish, and therefore that would not be any problems. so quoting the,

the attack of some ask, which was an atrocious terrorist attack. the problem is basically flipping things around. it's like quoting $911.00 and pogo, it was a terrorist attack, not a pop up. the same thing happens with genocide. i mean, i've heard people claiming that the, the amount us of talked with a genocide and now many people matching in many cities think that is the genocide and gossip, the beans or the size of statements showing intent. and when you define genocide, you have to show an intense to destroy a group, a search. so intense is actually being shown through the statements, whether that is actually happening on the ground. that is whether there is intentional targeting of civilian population rather than indiscriminate bombing that brings about the killing of lodging because people of civilians in a sense of it is that it has to be the basis. i'm not sure if that is the case. as

i said, i think clearly the war crimes happening potentially crimes against humanity, whether it rises to the definition of genocide. i'm not sure, but i don't think that says it's math is a great deal alma, but at least we agree that the intent has been expressed. now let's look at the actions and why they actually show you have a situation in which this international but our report saying that entire families are being wiped out. entire bloodlines, multiple generation of the same family have been obliterated off the face of the earth. and when you look at the history of how many children are killed in different complex, you look at what happened to new cream. about 5, just under $500.00 children were killed and ukraine and the entire 1st year of rushes, warning crane. and what everybody acknowledges, included war crimes and massive indiscriminate bombing of, of ukrainian areas. and we looked at what's happening and gaza. a 136 children are being killed every single day. you are looking at a ratio of more than

a $100.00 to $1.00 compared to almost any conflict that has happened in recent memory. those numbers are absolutely horrifying. and the extent to which half the housing units and all of gaza have been either completely destroyed or damaged. you are looking at a scale of destruction that if it has not stopped what will make gaza unfit for human living. so the question for me is whether you called us to genocide or not will depend on whether you stop it or in time or not. however, it is absolutely genocidal violence that is currently taking place. that if it's allowed to continue, you are going to completely destroy palestinians ability to live and gossip. stephanie anti semitic attacks have risen in recent years and since october 7th, we've seen a number of disturbing assaults on jewish people that there was a stabbing of a jewish woman in. in leon, there was a dag as done mobs storming an airport in search of jews at the same time. many

have characterized cause for cease fire as anti semitic and have accused jewish organizations like a j, v. p. jewish boys for peace of being anti semitic in recent years, organizations around the world have adopted the i h. r, a definition as the international holocaust remembrance, alliances definition of a anti semitism which deems speech against the state of israel as anti semitic. a holocaust scholar amos goldberg cause the h r, a definition catastrophic and says that these really right has usually to completely change the discourse. i'm gonna get your take on this also on this. what does that mean? which well is how we have this truly orwellian world in which a march has happened this week. but supposing to be up against and coming to them. but it's actually a pro war valley that is headlined by the one of the most powerful anti semites in the us pastor john hagi who has said that god brought hitler to punish choosing to

drive them into israel and has been working for decades to bring about what he hopes will be a world ending apocalyptic religious war in the lands. you know, it's how we have marjorie taylor green of jewish space. laser fame of all things. i'm starting the ball rolling on what would become the shameful censure of our only palestinian american member of congress proceeded to leave for fighting for the lives in rights of palestinians and israelis in equal measure. you know, so we have organizations like the anti defamation league, shutting down anti apartheid student organizing in the name of jewels. safety is insane. you know, we see them actually collecting their understood as somehow to be the data collectors about anti semitism in the world. but using that h or a definition and using their own slander as of additions, they actually are collecting the, the incidence of the largest jewish protest in decades that are here fighting for

a cease fire for peace there, there. documenting those as incidents of anti semitism. so we have this upside down funhouse mirror situation of intentional confusion about what anti semitism really is. and that is incredibly dangerous in a moment. when white nationalism and, and anti semitic ideologies are, are driving violence against the jews. and again, smartphones and people of color is essential that we'd be clear on what happened. semitism is and on what it's not about our movements are fighting for a future of a freedom and safety for all people with it. so much only want to jump in, let me, let me, i'm gonna give you a chance to jump in. i'm gonna just like to piggyback on one thing that's a the only thing that i think is really, really telling whenever israel's thoughts committing more crimes. there is also a rise in that they submit a tax. and it is baffling that leading organizations rather than distance themselves from these work crimes in fist that these war crimes are speaking in the name of the jewish people. that is just lunacy. it tells you that they are less

interested in combining at the time. it isn't and they are more interested in running interference for promoting is really policy at this time. it does, it is a very serious and rising problem in this country and to play with it. these silly political games and to water down to that charge by playing it at people who are trying to defend human rights and stand up to our crimes, i think is, is an incredibly dangerous. oh man, you know, to, is really, professes the most go good. whom you mentioned an uncle for, you know, and then myself joining them actually responded to the ira technician that has been used by the. is there any government creating a separate definition that you're the jerusalem declaration on, on, on the 7th of that, removes those sections that try to say that any criticism of the state of israel is anti semitic. but the solution is being successful in being adopted by many

governments, including quite a number of european governments. and it is a, with an ice ation. 5 is ready government of anti semitism in order to defend itself from any criticism of its own policies. do you know i'm a story and so what i find most ironic about it is that the state of israel was created as a response to, as i said, most of it was supposed to be the stay thing would choose would be protected from other services and as i submitted, the tax andrews would, would no longer have any russia now to them. and the result right now is suggest is israel right though? is the most dangerous place for choosing the well. it's also the, the, the main cause, know for and to submit the contents. nobody should condone those that they submit a good tax. but i think as a model is saying, when the state behaves in a particular way and in the class itself to be the state of the jews,

then this has a particular effect on jewish communities around the world. you could say that was most true because right now a anti semitism around the world is the conduct of the state of israel itself. stephanie, we've seen jewish organizations at the forefront of the ceasefire. moving in, are we seeing a growing diversity of opinion within the jewish community when it comes israel? i mean, absolutely the the, you know, protest movement that over the last month speaks for itself. we have thousands and thousands of jews of all ages. certainly young people of course, but of all ages pouring into the streets where, you know, the movement for palestinian rights and freedom of jews have always been a part of where and also we've always been a part of so many movements for, for justice and freedom and we bring all of that history with us into this moment in which it feels like everything we've learned. everything we've fought for all of

our lives must be brought to bear to end these historic atrocities that we're seeing. all right, that's all we have time for. i want to thank you all for joining me. oh man, stephanie alma, thank you so much for joining me. it's great. having a conversation with you everybody. that is our show upfront. we'll be back the as the game on garza continues, we bring you the latest reactions and global alto experience as a jewish person. israel does not represent me the killing of all those innocent families in israel is terrible. but the response is even worse. it's a genocide, it is up acceptable trouble stages and it seems even more unacceptable to have children of stages it's all about religion is about to me. i

think for me to get down 5 for what do i stay with us for the latest developments on al jazeera examining the impact of today's headlines. medicines that are running out every single, some ideas our patients lose. we could see all the hospitals that goes over the buddies explore and abundance of the world class program. i don't think we have another decade before. machines are smarter than us. it's time to raise your life international. so make us and world class john and bring programs to inform and inspire on challenges there. after oppression for generations, there comes a time to fight for freedom and survival. as one of the highest ranking members of an indigenous civil defense force to columbia and grandmother fiercely protects her community and the world's largest cocaine for

juicing regional land or death. a witness documentary on a jersey to the of the israel carries out strikes. movie ends. amazing. the hospital in northern garza, west thousands of sheltering at least 8 people account. the kind of them are kyle, this is allen to 0. live from doha. also coming up you and human rights chief says the civilian death toll from is really as twice as staggering underscore.