that winning is one thing forming a coalition government and the dutch fragment of political landscape another. as soon as celebrations are finished, we'll this will embark on this open long and complicated journey steadfast and l just over the world health organization is asking china information about an increase in respiratory illnesses authorities have reported clusters of pneumonia cases in children. katrina, you has the lasers from beijing as well. we had been tied as national health commission earlier this month saying that has indeed been a surgeon with spiritual illness across the field in china in particular. so the kind of illnesses that we're seeing into when mycoplasma pneumonia, which is this type of bacterial infection or speech, or a surgery virus and close the 19th. and what's particularly worrying, especially for the w h o, is that we're seeing very slight incidents of these illnesses within children. and so it'll be hydro has requested from china, more information about these pluses and also cold on trying his health system to

reinforce its capacity and responsiveness. now we haven't seen any exact figures a quarter, an intensive cases here in china, but anecdotally, we are definitely seeing a search at least here in virginia to go to the hospital, especially children towards the full of people. schools are also reporting high levels of absenteeism, telling parents to be extra cautious if that you don't have any symptoms even some classes. if they see a certain number of children sick, they're saying that the whole clause should stay at home for at least a week. and i've spoken also to adult does he have told me that since about october, they've seen a rise in these cases and they've been warning not only children, but those were pregnant, the elderly, to go back to some of these really good habits that we had during the height of the pen demik at white mosse, vigorous hand washing and avoiding crowded places that we don't know exactly what is behind this. but we do know that this is the 1st winter that we've had in 3 years without very strict pandemic restrictions that besides the sort of social

isolation of this country had been experiencing for some time. so during that time actually during the content, we did have very low rates of influenza through like diseases. so it's unclear of this is some sort of rebound effect. but we do know that the weather authorities have said that across move in china from to date on woods, temperatures are expected to pump even further. so that's raised, the concern that that could exacerbate this current spread of these kind of elusive at least 31 people have been killed in thousands ended in a stem paid at the stadium in the republic of congo. it happened on monday nights in the capital, roosevelt went on a recruitment operations were launched last week. the committee, it said that the san paint was treated by young men seeking to submit the applications to join the army, which is a major employer. okay, you're off today, the news continues here on out is around the

a son to south challenging place to work from. as a journalist, you're always pushing our boundaries. we are the ones traveling the extra mile. where are the media, the goals? we go there and we give them a chance to tell their story, higher of steve clements and i have a question with a ceasefire and a prisoner release or without what changes in the war on gaza. and what doesn't. let's get to the bottom line. the with a deal between hamas and israel for a temporary cease fire, or without one, it's obvious that we're seeing a new phase in israel's warren gaza. but the big questions remain. how far will israel's operation go? is it winning hearts and minds or destroying them? what are the implications for america, israel's closest ally as nations around the world protest?

israel's operation, which is so deadly, the innocence, particularly children. how about the implications for joe biden? his popularity among democrats is in rapid decline. as younger voters are saying they can't support israel's actions in gaza. and really just what happens next to day we're talking with former c, i a director general david betray us who's also served as commander of us central command and lead us forces in both afghanistan and iraq. his latest book is conflict. the evolution of warfare from 1945 to ukraine, and it just came out last month. jennifer trace, thank you so much for joining us. and sorry for the froggy throat, there is a deal on a hostage exchange. we're about $150.00 palestinian held in is really jails may be released for 50 hostages, particularly elderly and children that tomas has taken after it's ok. so october 7th attack, i'm interested in your reaction and this moment,

but i'm also interested in the big picture when it comes to the broad side of israel achieving is it, it's objectives. does this help, or is it a relevant to that those objectives as well? i think it helps because one of the objectives is to gain release of the hostages. so clearly a partial return of a significant number of the hostages is positive in terms of meeting that particular objective. but of course, it also allows for mosse, a bit of a breather. a moss is, you know, if you will, a fighter on the ropes to some degree. and when you're on the ropes, what you seek is a pause in the action. you seek a breather, it gives them an opportunity because this will stretch out for a number of days. my understanding is that, you know, there will be, say 10 or so of the hostages released a day. there will be a 6 hour window during which no drones will fly over a gaza. so presumably that will limit the ability of these relays to figure out where the hostages are coming from. what come us fighters might be doing to

facilitate this, etc, etc. so is going to provide a 5 or more day period during which hot a mosque and reorganize regroup, can re distribute ammunition and supplies and so forth. and as i said, get a bit of a breather from what has been a pretty intense off fences so far in northern gauze. or at least we've seen a lot of international reaction. a lot of reaction within the united states, the global south to what they see as indiscriminate bombing and rating the killing . now, the staggering number of innocents that have been killed is something that is getting a lot of reaction. so what would you advise for the next phase? well 1st i should just note that i, i do tend to agree that law says revealed itself to be an extremist army. that is therefore irreconcilable. the analogy with the islamic state is

flawed. there is obviously an element of palestinian nationalism that is present with a mosque that is different from what the islamic state stood for. but at the end of the day, they are both similar in that they are seen by their enemy as being irreconcilable . and when we were doing the search at a rock, for example, we went to a nor mrs lanes to determine with our intelligence assets, who are the reconcile level elements. and we try to strip them away from the sunni insurgents. the ronnie is supported, she and militia, and who are the irreconcilable elements, those that have to be captured or killed if they refused to be detained. and i think at home, us through these horrible atrocities as barbaric action that they took even fill me in it. so the whole world could see the extent of the unspeakable actions that they did take, that they have put themselves in the camp of irreconcilable and therefore they have

to be, as israel has identified, destroyed, and as a military task, that means to render the enemy and capable of accomplishing his objective without reconstitution. keep an eye on that task without reconstitution because i think is one of the big questions that looms out there in addition to some others that i want to identify. israel is also sad about dismantling the political wing of the law, so it's going to take down if you will, the government of gaza as well as the extremist elements that visited these barbaric acts on, largely innocent here is really civilians. so if that's the objective, then they've got to resume the operation. and one of the questions that the idea of should answer, the vision that they should provide is what will life be like for palestinians in gaza after

a boss has been destroyed in the political wing has been dismantled. and then actually show that by clearing and holding areas and then beginning to rebuild it so that you are not just saying, you know, humanitarian assistance, which they said definitely do again to hearts and minds really do matter here. and you should restore basic services begin reconstruction of. ready enormous amount of damage and destruction. a lot of which just is unavoidable, by the way, steve again, as is tragically loss of innocent civilian life, but obviously have to keep that to an absolute minimum. israel claims that they are, i think they have to continue to examine that very, very closely. we had a sign on the wall of the operation centers when i was privileged to command in iraq and afghanistan and 5 combat commands. and total is your recall. and that signed asked, will this operation take more bad guys off the street that it creates by its conduct? and if the answer to that was no, in other words,

it's going to create more bad guys than it takes off the street because you do it. then you're supposed to examine how it is that you reduce the risk of that. and if you can't, then you actually have to figure out how, how you're going to accomplish your objective some other way. i think that's a good process. that's a good question to, to answer. this is why it was staring me in the face, in all of these different op centers over the years. and i think that that question does a big again, an answer literally every time that you're looking at conducting a question, an operation. now, another facet here is also of course, ultimately, who is going to bolt, administer gaza, and who's going to secure it. and the security component is important because that's how you ensure that a mos cannot re constitute. and i think that is a very, very big question as well. now to be fair to everyone is working on this issue of who can administer a guys a who can in a sense, governance and then who can provide security for it as they are also re

establishing basic services and overseeing reconstruction. but the sooner that question is answered, the better, because a military commander needs what's called the desired end state. what is it we are seeking to accomplish here? be on the destruction of a boss and dismantlement of the political wing. there are several key questions that have to be answered in until they are answer. you really can't go about the military campaign, right, which quite be the. ready vision that you would have if you had some sense of that and they'll just and by noting that, for example, there's gotta be real concerned about the palestinian people in guys that you cannot eventually, israel's gonna have to go sell. um, are they just gonna push them around again? that's not the right answer with it shouldn't be as to allow them to return to their homes or drawings or if necessary. refugee camps in the north, given the damage and destruction and the,

the way that so many of these structures have been made in an uninhabited will. and by control that security. and you have to have population control just as we did right in pollution, in ramadi, in these other cities as we cleared, held. and then what further, but we were rebuilding immediately as we proceeded so that the civilians could come back into them. uh, we could restore their basic services and begin reconstruction channel, who has to be involved in this process for that to work. who has to become the defender of the palestinian side? if they have lost so many in this incursion, either this a, a strike by the israelis after the hamas attack, how can they have trust or faith in what has just happened to them that there is a better horizon? well again, i think there has to be a vision. it starts with the vision. this is what we're trying to accomplish. and this is what it will mean for you. that life will be better and then layout,

how that will happen. and then set about making it happen, you know, who's going to be the ultimate defender. it may be the is really defense forces, because again, i don't see hands going up in the region. you may of actually talk to a number of old commer ends from the gulf states, the official egypt and elsewhere. there are no hands going up that are volunteering to be the force on the ground, nor even the interim administration. or what have you, some kind of transitional authority, and there's a variety of plans that have been moved and none of that would strike me as particularly realistic, including the id, you know, certainly ideally there would be a competent, capable of in integrity. busy all the rest of this kind of government that would come over from the west bank palestinian authority. but i don't see a competent, capable,

trustworthy entity that is going to come over. and they certainly don't want to be seen is coming in on the backs of is really tanks. so how is this going to be cobbled together? in my sense, my fear is that it probably is going to be the is really defense forces for an interim period. at the very least while others are trying to, to pursue the diplomacy and the other initiatives that can enable some kind of transitional authority. but it has to be given real authority. and again, can these really trust this interim authority to ensure that i'm honest, cannot reconstitute. i tend to doubt it. and if that's, if that's the case, then what happens when a boss does re constitute and you have another one of these atrocities such as 17. also do this is why i think that vision the sooner the better. nobody in that, yes, there's going to be criticism if israel is seen to be re occupying gaza, but again,

tell me the alternative, but it raises another interesting fundamental question. you know, when you sort of look at essentially the day after, if we get to a day after and a day after i should say, as you said, couldn't be 9 months or longer. mosul was 9 months. so we can see there's, or for a very long time, it is really, it's much more capable, i think, but again, it will be months, not weeks. right. and so in that situation, you know, i, i, i asked what the implications are for the united states and present barden, who's been trying to get to a manager and assistance in and, and had a lot of rough time getting a pretty minimal amount of humanitarian assistance. in where is the state of us power and leverage right now from your perspective, joe biden. once a 2 state solution sees this is the earthquake of earthquakes that could possibly get us there. i'm wondering, is this just another conflict on a long line of conflicts where it eventually fades away and we really have nothing underneath this. the changes i think is really, is,

are determined that not be the case. now the problem is obviously the domestic politics in israel. and all of that is somewhat on hold, steve, for the time being clearly the focus is on proceeding with the military operation. i don't think you can expect the opposition even to call for they can call for an eventual changing government. but i think that now that you have a coalition government to, to a degree or a government of the degree of national unity that they're going to proceed with this war. hold off on the post more n z investigations and all the rest of that for at least in a period of time until you see the object is be much more close to being met. but of course that could stretch out. and then the impatience could begin. there's pressure, of course in the united states front, there's pressure elsewhere on the world. there's another member is steve, i used to talk about you had the baghdad clock and you have the washington clock.

and then watching clock was always going very rapidly and the baghdad clock you'd sort of tap and every now and in this is to ensure that it's still moving because the progress at certain times was quite slow until we got it going. frankly, about 4 or 5 months into the search. but there's another clock here that's the is real, is really economic clock. how long can you keep 8 percent of your workforce in uniform without an impact on the economy. and again, that depends on a number of different factors, needless to say, including how much able come from the outside. but that gives leverage to those countries that will engage in that as well. so, i mean, this is a very multi dimensional endeavor. this on going to the us sector estate obviously is struggling around trying to bring various pieces of this together to see what might be possible in terms of an interim, transitional authority, the israel, these are the things at least 2 different groupings. and they are government that

are and working away on these issues. the problem is that they are very, very hard and i'm not sure there's going to be the kind of resolution that folks would. ready like to see and therefore you're going to end up with something less than optimal because the optimal may not be possible. it's certainly i don't think is possible that we'll see a company capable and trustworthy palestinian entity at the head of this coming over from the palestinian authority. let me ask you a question about palestinian leadership because we see the p a as weak and we see a lot of the structural problems and leadership. but what is, what would you be invite, you know, advising. we got the top competent, palestinian crowd involved and say what you're today be doing right now. well, this is a tough one because there are, as you know, it was very competent and capable individuals. i used to deal with the, the prime minister in ramallah, in my final government position who was exceedingly confident,

but eventually got undermine, was sort of pushed to the side and really hasn't played a significant role since that. and again, i'd love to see him this a lot by odd or a different. yes. yeah. yeah. why? and he's written recently about and then plan and, and performed affairs article and trying to put the ideas on the table at least the the challenges. how do you empower him? can you put a team together? can add at the already where with the resources and authorities come from? because obviously there's a lot of disagreement within the palestinian authority within font, uh, and so forth. so in each case or needs to be serious political reform. but there are entrenched interests that have opposed that quite firmly. and frankly, i'm not sure in all cases that those in jerusalem where that eager to see that change. and so again, there's a lot of factors that play here. it wouldn't be wonderful to see one of the really

competent and capable and trustworthy leaders return from internal exile or however you want to term it or from external. there are some others in gulf states and so forth that had been discussed. i just don't know whether they can build a team, whether they can be empowered, what the process would be. how do you great, get the authorities from who would the authorities be be provided with this being a united nations entity knowing that there's going to have to be a lot of reform to the un uh, organization that oversees assessments here as well. given the, the versions of the materials that have been provided that clearly took place. you know, you don't build 300 miles of reinforced concrete tunnels with scraps here and there. so this takes a real overhaul. and of course, that's why,

as i mentioned, these are really hard issues, and it's not surprising that they haven't resolved them until this point in time. the problem is that at a certain point, yes, good knowledge that you may have to go with the undesirable solution, which is israel administer in this area. and if that's the case again, then begin thinking that through with all the attendant actions that you should be taken to ensure a better life for the palestinians as quickly as you possibly can to convince them that you mean it. but again, there should be a vision for that. and by the way, not just for a gaza, but also for the west bank. my hope steve, you know, you asked will this opportunity is a tragedy that has an opportunity? can it, can it be a catalyst that really does shake up the situation and result in some serious attention to long standing issues when it comes to the situation between israel and the palestinians in the west bank as well as in gaza. and there's another side to

this where there are a lot of americans are saying we get nothing from being engaged around the world. you know, what ends up happening. we get drawn in to drama and conflict and costs that don't help us middle class americans. and then just the interesting interested to know to what degree you see this is a trigger political yearly in america and what your concerns are. and i also worry, frankly about rising isolationism in america. i think it's incumbent on all leaders to very clearly explain that what we do around the world is not for charitable reasons, just because in our, in our national interest and in the interest of our allies in partners who work with us to maintain this so called rules based international order that we help bring into existence in the wake of a 50 year period that included 2 horrible world. ready doors in the great depression and for all of the imperfections of this order. uh and there are plenty

of it for all of the shortcomings. this is done reasonably well for the world, and i would submit for the united states and again our allies and partners. so again, we're not members of nato because we have charitable instincts or interests here. we're members of nato and other alliances and partnerships in groupings because it is very much in our natural interest and not just our national security interest, but in the interest of our national prosperity as well. i believe that the us is, you know, this indispensable power that madeline albright used to describe, i know that term and it has been challenged at various points. but i think that it is accurate in that without us leadership in the world without us keeping all these different plate spinning. and i would submit that there are more lights, more challenges, and threats and so forth,

and more complex challenges and threats. then at any time since the end of world war 2, so our leadership is crucial. i think we have done an impressive job and responding to the brutal and unprovoked in russian invasion of ukraine all be. it was some decisions that took longer than they should have. but again, we've kept nato together. we've kept booting from driving a wedge between europe and north america. we've ensure that the response is very robust, $44000000000.00 of us alone with europe. now actually more than that when it comes to security pledges, in addition to vastly more that they have provided and financial, economic, and humanitarian assistance. leading the way with the effort and in financial, economic and personal sanctions on russia and export control. busy was now going after the sanctions of vader's. all of this the u. s. is done, i think, very impressively noting again that i felt that there were some decisions that could have been made more rapidly. and that causes some challenges for ukraine

during the summer offensive. um, but we have to remember one of the lessons out of this, the book that and roberts and i just published is that what happens in one part of the world reverberates and another. and if we show that we're not a steadfast ally for israel that will have ramifications out in the endo pacific. the withdrawal from afghanistan, the decision to withdraw by 2 administrations. and then the way it was conducted president, she seized on that and say, see, you can't depend on the americans or they're not reliable allies and look at what they were. they're clearly a great power in decline. and again, the eyes of the. ready world are on us when i was in keys 5 weeks or 6 weeks ago. they were more seized with what was going on in our house of representatives and most americans were. and in part because their survival can depend to some degree on that. but again, we have to convince americans we who believe, i guess that america should be a world leader, the world leader,

really when it comes to the western world and that the reason we do it is for our national interest in security terms. and also in terms of our national prosperity without i want to thank general david patricia as former director of the c i a former commander of sent tom. congratulations on the book, which i highly recommend to everyone. thank you so much for joining us. good to be with you. see was again, always a pleasure. so what's the bottom line? it matters how israel conducts itself in this war power, palestinians supposed to accept israel as a steward of gaza the day after the fighting stops. if israel wants to achieve any of its aims, it's going to have to figure out solutions that lead to the empowerment of palestine not be ongoing, the finished ration of its citizens. the problem i see is that the israel, we see today as launch nothing visible that shows a sensitivity towards innocence or dying by the thousands nor pre positioning a discussion within is real or with the arab world or the west and the palestinians

themselves on what a future political horizon for palestine can be some prisoners, may be set free, and that's great, but it's just not enough. this is a substantial crisis. shock waves are going to reverberate for years. and that's the bottom line. the a medium size does collapse. all this massive is really a top sirens going off, warning citizens that are heading this way from even the hospitals are not yet protected from the is what i am going to tell them as several 100 people and the numbers are growing all the time. so the victims of the attack a lot to the hospital in gaza, 5 is requesting congress, provide

a 100000000000 and security funding for 6 meetings. still no resolution still no unified thoughts providing arms, but the patient doesn't have time to wait for extremely unfortunate. there are no quick wins and events or research hard hitting interviews. do you feel like america is the best thing to do since these days, or is it just a different full? i think the demography of the process facing realities. do you see that the fracture is already starting the g 7 in the us on one side, china and the brakes on the other? i think there is a huge piece of that to happen via the stores on tools to how does era in unsettled tax upfront takes on the big issues. i can move democratic nations justified this kind of behavior is not piece of that is being talked about. it is more unflinching questions, rigorous debate. we are behind the mass that goes to the being gutted out by bolts

. clinton. yahoo is to go and there was collateral damage. there's collateral damage. that's more t p 's leading to what we're seeing now. the grounds are susan upfront without 0 examining the impact of today's headlines, explorer, and abundance of world class programming international from macon and world class john and bring programs to inform and inspire on challenges. here the, the, the

seas find deals delayed. israel says the release of captives from guns at once again until at least friday proposal. so i suggest that would be no holds in financing between as well. and how may i ask before then the .