the rigorous, the base, we are the kinds of mess that goes that, that are being cut it out by both side. clinton, yahoo is to go and there is collateral damage. there's collateral damage. that's more reality is leading to what we're seeing now in the ground for susan upfront without 0 calls for loud to extend upfront john c spine. and to allow me aid and to contact him, austin is around, had been exchanging detainees and kept as now since friday. but what will it take to take for an agreement like this, a live level or an extend the fee on these $4.00 days. this is inside store the color there and welcome to the program on this dante, now of to weeks of intense is really bombardment. the people of gauze. finally enjoying a few days of relative calling from us. and israel are using this time to exchange

and thousands of detainees and captives as part of that agreement. but that deal has a snag on saturday when a disagreement led to several hours of delay and releasing captives. so with a great deal of mistrust on both sides. how'd immediately as i'm sure that both israel and thomas play their pots and what are the logistical implications of facilitating such an agreement, kind of be extended beyond the 4 days. we'll get to our guests in just a moment, but here's what we know about this deal so far. it involves the release of a total of 50 as really captives and exchange for a 4 day c spine, which already began on friday. as part of that agreement about a $150.00 pounds, a sting in women and children will also be freed from is really jails. humanitarian aid is another critical factor. the deal says about $200.00 trucks, with food medicine, water, and desperately needed fuel will be allowed intake on a daily. israel has also agreed not to fly brands across the northern garza for 6

hours a day. the steel is mediated by cats on egypt on the united states, but throughout this entire process, miss trust between the 2 sides has been a challenge. the. oh, well that's not bring in august in geneva. we have to be to a company. he's in the middle east regional director, the international committee of the red cross. and ryan was the crook veteran negotiator himself, through mediation states files between her last and is rather in the past 2. and in london we have any mess. so tiny a read it and public little at the school, oriental african studies at the university of london. a welcome to you. oh, thank you for being with us gentlemen. i want to start about trust because this, this whole way that video has been structured so far appears to be about building trust. so one side does one thing. the other side responds by releasing another group. so, captives are released then prisoners are released it for to and really it's a,

it's a slow process one day at a time, given what we've seen so far. honest, i'm going to start with you. where is trust at the end is never trust. you never have a trust in it's not to see science, dental you. what we're talking about is a hook, no truce to see. so has some legal connotations. but with the truth of this nature, you never have trust. the 1st of all is always the problem of who, who is speaking, who has the mandate? now it's probably pretty care on the homicide that it's a sin. why not the people and know how i know the other side that seem to be a lot of cooks you in the kitchen, you described them all. but the greatest problem with any c saw is to nail ever thing dog beforehand, and then it's post over to someone like one bill guest here to try and implemented . but you need to decide. i mean, 1st of all, evil,

the simple things. who are the people who are going to be exchange? what does the names all they alive or they did. in one case, i had to do the negotiation and with as bullet. and of course his board, i said, well, we won't give you proof of life, but conceptual cost you, you will have to release of more hostages in order to get that proof of life. and then you have the whole, the details of what is going to take place. what is the ratio that is the most complicated in the case of data, again, lecture lead to it was 1200. a pod is really to want a full one prisoner actually. um and so these are the main things and always this trust this trust. and by the way, there's already distrust about today's release. i see that now it's turned around, the news riley is saying that actually it's how mos who's not allowing the humanitarian convoys to go to the north. and yesterday it was how

much who was saying it was israel is not allowing the humanitarian go convoys good to the goals. out of say you said a lot that i want to dig into into all of that. but, but let me start with the last thing that you've raised this he said, she said about who is obstructing aid. let me throw this one to you for being so i understand that the international committee of the red cross obviously are involved with dealing with some of the captive release. that has been you all. i understand also dealing with some of the deliveries of medical aids that's taking place in gauze at the moment. now most yesterday was saying something like are in the 65 of the 348 trucks that had entered garza had actually reached northern garza. i'm also saying that the less than half of what is right ahead of read for me is what is the hold up in mind. then we're obviously hearing different things from, from both sides. you know, i would go back to the question of trust because i think this is key in such an

environment. and in this environment, everything is politicized. i would even say that everything is weaponized and just your question about how many trucks comes in or not. who's responsible? not? it's not just, i would say and you try to question, this is a question. and then then sarah, which has consequences consequences on who's respecting on not an agreement. and that's where i think as i see, i see, and it's sometimes very, it's not understood. we need to find the space where we can be seen as playing this game. so uh, and any viruses of use need from one moment to another, into a conflict. the issues, batteries, but in this moment, right now, i think if we agree that for us, the most important thing today is to replace in the absence of trust

between parties to allow the deed to take place. and the thieves had different dimension. we talk about the release, we talk about the assistance coming in. and so i think for us and i repeat is often misunderstood as not having opinion of not caring. that's not the point. the point today is that in this crisis, you at least need one actor. we shouldn't be permanently in the communication in the judging in giving opinion, saying there is a moment while we should you know, keep these positions these, these right now. well, let me ask you that and for being here allows us to understand that there are many questions and yukon people alone in order for i see all see to be able to, to do its very important job. at the moment. we have an understanding and we've been hearing from you that you are being given lists of captives to be released

every day. and i want to try to give that a view is here, a little bit of an insight into some of the logistics perhaps behind this process. so let me pops off to a thoughtful question at the moment. do you have any comments here at the moment on how many captives there are and who is holding them? because i'm us initially. it said that they, they weren't sure where they are. why they weren't sure of exact numbers at the stage. do we have that list? ah, no, we don't have it. and each day, by day that the trucks to every day, we have a series of instructions, a series of, of information on places on who's going to be released when, how, but so far we don't have this, this general overview on who is having. so it's um, it's a day by day exercise,

which is obviously very complex. so we don't talk this over to you. and let me see if i can phrase this in a way that you're able to answer it. do you have any sense of how the captive are being chosen? obviously we know that women and children because of the deal. so um where we're talking about civilian captives at the moment. have you been given any sense of if perhaps those who, who might need more medical assistance, we've obviously seen a lot of elderly captives being released if, if they have been prioritized, have any of those conversations been taking place with the i see all see doing. i think this is an important issue is that we don't have access, especially to the hostages in gaza. we have no knowledge of the detention condition. we have no knowledge. they well being, we don't know where they are. we haven't seen them. and re repeatedly us to see

them visit them since i think the one. so for the time being we are working in an environment which i would code not up to month to. and you know, we are, you might say organization, we are not the logistics organization. and so for us it's, it's sometimes very difficult to only do part of our united work. and today we do part of our, you, my 10 work because we cannot visits. we cannot provide proof of lives to the family and also by the way on these ready sides, we not allowed to visit anymore. the place of detention. so we do our best in a very politicize environment's nothing to do with. you may turn action. we try never the less to piece of as much as we can or you might tend space. okay, thank you for that. somebody's here. i want to throw a question to me man, because we've been talking a lot here about trust. obviously i trust was pretty hard to find to even get to this point. but as we see,

both sides continues to point the finger in each other in terms of, of i guess, smaller violations of what's perceived to be the deal. when is your assessment to with trust is could something as small as, as a blame game that we're saying go on daily at the moment, come back the rail, the process, or would it just potentially will stop? the idea of an extension of this is fine. it was a the question of trust in the midst of the genocide of campaign against an essentially somebody and population is hard to find. so the question ceasefire uh is uh you know, broken down to kind of instrumental elements in a line that kind of situation offset, onslaught this, if you remember in the what's the so called protective edge operation, a 2014, we had a situation off of 17 c as far as doing 50 days of military activity. and today with the question is, is this a sort of downs he's find out what is it

a long times he's flat on the is when he's obviously made. it's clear that it is a short term ceasefire. and the way i see it that are the main challenges to the ceasefire are holding up the fashionable beasley. this is fly out from these are the site does not include any station of hostile admitted to the activity in the west bank. and we have at least 6 students who come by is many reins in the past through the end. and this is betsy's last stop to. and we need to remember here the context off the, the 6 of the outbreak of bio something similar to that which is that there was a violation of the start of school and a locks on the sides by the firelight zionist accidents, including a members of the uh, is there a government as well as the could be, uh, is uh, thousands of prisoners while languishing for decades and is really presumes and

sadly, the photos and a sometimes violence in the west bank. so i have these contains, continue, obviously, that we contribute to the facility of any c spy on each month. and then secondly, we have had from the beginning of the seas for somebody is any side specifically the minister of defense that they intend for at least to be a fit um at the end of month in which they continue the the, what is essentially a one sided onslaught and a situation of a gross as soon as we are at between the 2 side and the what the gate the what the excessive base these issue is. the issue is that we are in the situation that the some of the medicine, the $96.00 is even a more insight as ryan, in the sense that we have a weak political leadership. and these are many, uh, army jobs are the ones what actually setting up to one and behind them there's up to the mobilization of society, society and war with the stick doors and immunization come to us,

which became a come up for a genocide. those campaign, and this is head of the internet, i would say for the a c side holding up is where the us, who has to be in the main blockage for a peaceful, out of added solution. and the, you know, security council will finally a respond to the civilized was uh, the man that the jump out of the campaign and guys as thoughts, man, i want to get into the department say in just a moment, but let me pick up on something you said that you were talking about this ongoing crackdown that we've seen to and the occupied westbank. we've seen escalating arrest since october, the 7th, thousands and thousands of people now also depending on how the next few days play out. we've already seen arrests over the last 2 days. the number of people detained by as well over the course of, of this 4 days, but i could actually end up exceeding the number of people release depending on how

it all guy is. obviously, how is this deal with the one being viewed and the occupied westbank is this, i mean it's obviously not a violation of the ceasefire because this is why it covers cause of it. is it perhaps a violation of trust? what as i said, it is difficult to do with the language of sci fi out. it's a scope skew, is the situation of occupation as the i see, i see a lot of you on and legal qualities have repeatedly said since 2005, the so called disengagement plan. the guys that continued continues to be an occupied at 32 and only recently december last in the u on july, the assembly. if the situation nobody got it up, is there any control over the person in the threes in the westbank is or isn't? and as a to the i, c, g leads as a court of justice. so the problem with that is that the see sign language would be, excuse the obligations of the occupying par towards the people who does and the

lowest bank. and that is what the occupied territories, including me to go and food supplies. so now the ceasefire arrangement is the one in which the but as soon as it goes out, able to allow you many today. and they leave allow me to come in for the supplies even though even in the move july situation it is as well. and i for this with the geneva conventions that should be allowing that kind of access on and be that in fact, only a few years ago in 2018, the one security council decided that service start of ation on the, on most of denial for me data access, scan it to be a mix of, of the tools work fairly well. we've had, we've had a number of different agencies and you and agencies also criticized the use of, of starvation as, as potentially in use as a weapon of what in this case, i just wanted to get back to some of the nitty gritty parts of, of this deal and just how it might evolve over the course of the next 48 hours or

so. i'm out of state. i wanted to ask you a little more about something you mentioned that this may share that we've seen so far, 3 to one in terms of palestinian prisoners for is really captives. so obviously, as i was saying, women and children being released on aside sir, find these are presumably easy, a captive to having a conversation about the women and children when we get to, to men. when we get to soldiers could not make sure a change. you talked about that the huge ratio and they could actually case what you were involved in more than a 1000 to one. all those conversations taking place right now, but for what might happen often. these releases over 4 days. if they do continue, you know, they're not and i just want to go back and say, we need to talk about 2 different things. but really, we say, you know, this is not, you know, a political exercise. the i r i o to see it has a very difficult the red cross has a very difficult road of trying to be sort of in the middle of this. but of course,

this is highly political in the sense that both sides so trying to use every element to full psychological advantage to come out to look as if they won the 6 sides. and this is behind the loss of these problems that we get when they can be mind a problem. and i just want to make it clear of the ceasefire as i did. i mean most of them failed. one of them failed just on the statement by one person and the whole thing collapsed. another one was a cult going off during the sci fi, and that was a see, saw another quote and, and the point about this is, you know, there are 3 open fronts, at least at the moment facing israel. and my lesson from doing these holding those was oh, as you call and have if you like cotton one place you call and have quotes and basically him and you have wall going on in april and we'll have a little some other parts of the territories. it doesn't work like that. and so you

have the west bank, which is really on a night section at the moment. and always in these homeless you have a group or an element that is not in favor of the whole not continued. yes. so grow wells as a whole may be in favor of as us and turning it from holding our into a c file with some legal and go back to the legal, the underpinnings to it. but there are also people, and we know that it in their truck who don't want to to continue because they want to get back to the wall on garza. and they know that the longer this goes on, the harder it is to start that for again. and the committed to restarting it. so i think all was my feeling was that this was going to be a very short list of truth. and it may go on for 4 days. it may have an extra day or so, but that will be very lucky if we get that. do you expect to see any of

the prison that will have to release is beyond what's already been agreed and you say there's discussions on, on taking place at the moment that has obviously been heard so that that, that might happen? well, so that will be pressure from is really the families at least try and get older children and the women not. but when it comes to the man, many of whom are military or from the central months being trained by the idea of them. it's a completely different ball game and then it is all for all in the terms of how much i owe israel's praise move palestinian christmas of which survived $6000.00 plus in return for the holdings of the mail. some of the military, including some of them, very seen him and a trick. hostages that the holding and garza and we have had some ha, so they were expecting more senior figures to have been released over the course of the last couple of days. i understand that there were people released to need just

weeks from the end of their present times, but they're being counted as part of that number. let me go back to you from beats here because you've been very hands on with this. and obviously you're dealing with a huge amount of attention. we're holding very fragile, seized by there and, and, and trying to, to facilitate these releases and the age going and as well. this is all being monitored. i understand by an operation center that's being managed by capital and, and this has all supposed to be happening in real time. they're supposed to be a representatives of, of both sides involved in this. how is not working or not lacking? it's yeah, it's, um, it's a very sophisticated choreography and you have many moving parts which condition one, the one in the other. so, yeah, we know we are, we have many colleagues embedded all in close contact with different parts of this deal. and we need to make sure that we move according to what is

agreed. so it's uh, it's complex, um and it's, it's happening in an environment of violence, this trust. and also, um, i mean dramatic, you may turn environment, i think, you know, we talking about really using people, women and children in a place because uh, which is devastated. which is scary because as you said, it's a pause. it 345 base. and then what so it's um emotional video, so very low that it so so very tens because we don't do that. in fact, when we do that in gaza, surrounded by people who are really struggling every day to stay to stay alive. so

i think that's why these focus on the release is important because it's an important you my time issues. and at the same time we shouldn't lose perspective on the bigger picture, which is the 6 weeks of unbelievable violence. hundreds of thousands of people displays affected. and you mentioned that there is also the west bank and what is really hard for for us as you mind me, terry. and is it's not over, you know, and then we have a hard time and i'm talking from the field perspective not from my consult to the office in geneva. mm hm. i mean, why the oh, you know, what, what's the end game of, of all of this disaster. so, the thing i want to ask is that tell you that question that you've just posed for

me. it's area to to me, man, because as you say during these 4 days, we're getting a bit more of an opportunity now with, with a slightly present ease of movement within garza to see the full extent of the disruption that's taking place. and i've been wondering whether seeing that seeing that being documented, man, is that changing perceptions or pressure on israel to, to not only explain its end game, but also potentially change the way that it conducts assessment. or if, if it's old as with you in the course of the next couple of days, i would say just to make a comment on mr. crooks, you is repeated use of the word i don't think using the word and that is useful in this context. i think it's one of the mist defies that the issues of 10, we would have used him. it was have to go. and these are the he had a mentally obscures the context miss. defies it and make it look as, as it is. okay. sorry, yeah. and then i, i don't want to get into into a semantics hand because we don't want us to run out of time talking about this. so

just to clarify for our view is putting the is a time that is often used. i understand correct me if i'm wrong by her mouth full and extended the safe spot of thoughts, a phase within a broad phase that could at some point lead to some kind of reconciliation. so let's at this point, talk about what, what maybe to come rather than focusing necessarily just on the what yeah, i mean the see. so i don't really need to be using this, this was the make it look at it's a bit kind of more unable to explain the exact situation and the way it's in terms of your question with respect to the z, riley use of a visually unlimited, and selection of sorting on civilians and the government particular but also in the us that the main problem is impunity. so there have been different campaigns in the past, and which is where i also violated the international law in terms of war crimes and

the crimes against humanity. and there was no repercussions that we have no consequences. the consequences, there was no accountability despite the well documented and, and violation of international law by the 15 minutes when i issues as well as the us. so that's the offense issue here. that is, and then there's a lot unintentionally going to solutions are now as so hot, and i'm major set back in terms of any form of credibility, but also on the side of the western power such as the us, the u. k. germany. but also they, you are seen as enable us complicit in the genocide of campaign. that is what it is inflicting on a guess. as long as there's more pressure of being a exercise or what is right, we would see that even in the southern problem, guys, and being exposed to the same kind of horrendous me. ma'am, i'm going to jump in here. i'm sorry, because i do want to ask alistair, one of the one more question around what we've been discussing in terms of what

might happen often these for days and also in terms of, of exit existing international pressure. because one of the things that we've talked about a lot is what all the parties are doing. but we haven't spoken of rage amounts about the agency of the palestinian people. the people in gauze are themselves announced as someone who's been negotiate, who's been involved in a lot of these processes at the moment. is there a sense of who might be the posting and representative of the people? not necessarily all the different political function that of the people have gone as a sitting at that table in terms of trying to define their own future. is there a conversation about that? just very, very briefly. yes. if you've seen the videos, i mean it was so striking. the n a issue. there was a saw some of the sense of solid dark. when the prism is the palestinian christmas were received in the west bank. i think we are seeing something very different unless not to forget. this is also being seen by the rest of the islamic

world. and it's changing it. yes, it is changing it. it is creating a sense of cohesion, of communal effort. it is creating also a sense of national, a national project. and as i make project together as a to have been separate for a long time. and now we're seeing them come together in a very possible way. and we'll see how those dynamics pounds and the coming days and weeks and months ahead. thank you very much for joining me here on inside storage gentlemen. i was to crook from be to cover any, any muscle tone soltani. and from beats here, we really wish you on the i see all say all the best with your wife. thank you to for watching. you can see this program again, any time by visiting our website out, is there a dot com for further discussion? do go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. remember, you can also join the conversation on x i handle is as a inside story. for me, this nonsense, hey, i'm the whole team here. the

the

13 is really captives handed over in gaza city almost tells on to 0. it shows it's fighters are still in control of areas that are being targeted by israel's military . the time about this and this is all just even light from go home also coming up. the group of former can.